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View Full Version : Move on from Vampires



chrismay101
22-03-2011, 12:52
I was just looking through my old copy of warhammer armies undead and i was thinking "god vampires are boring" I really like undead but when they went down the route of vampires they kind of lost some of there appeal for me.

I really think Necromancers is the direction they should have gone.

It may be that it just seems it's von Carstein this von Carstein that!

Maybe....

I don't mind Tomb Kings but it not the undead look i want.

nagash66
22-03-2011, 14:09
So your problem with the armies named VAMPIRE counts, is the fact that the focus is too much on the Vampires?

Sounds like you want the 4ed army book, which was a mix of Vamps and tombs kings.

noneshallpass!
22-03-2011, 14:23
I would not mind having just one undead army again. On the other hand. I did enjoy playing Vampire Counts in 6th ed, and before 8th arrived I had a blast playing Tomb Kings.

nagash66
22-03-2011, 15:23
I would not mind having just one undead army again.

Such a book would have to do several things that ether GW or the player base would not be happy with.

1) Be very very big.
2) Include a system that allows several different army types being taken but not at the same time.

So no Tomb kings leading ghouls while a black coach and chariots go for flanks.

3) The range of minis needed to correctly represent all the units would be staggering to do in 1 release even with several waves being in the future while being cost efficient.

Image how much they would charge for a box of 10 skellies which can be made VC and TK style?

4) The very different visual and background aspects would ether have to be blended or effectively ignore one another, with the latter making such a book meaningless.

5) Many units would have to be dropped or merged for it to be feasible, so skeletal cavalry is x, if a Vampire is your general is a vampire add w,y,s special rules, if its a tomb king then k,b,c options are available.

Or do you want to see things like wights with bows and no armor?


All together this makes a single book which would keep the different aspects of each army as they have grown since the got their own books a exercise in futility.

Or at least that my take on it.

apbevan
22-03-2011, 15:26
You know that its only von Carstein if you play with those characters right? You can create vampire that follow the other bloodlines or vampires that are there just to raise models.

no ones forcing you to take a von Carstein, or vampire wearing glittering scales ect, make up your own fluff for your vampires. You could even model a Lich or Necromancer Lord as your vampire.

I find that the Vampires is what gives us are most options its our troops that is are lacking because most of the "choices" either don't count or just suck so aren't really choices.

Munin
22-03-2011, 17:05
While I dont mind Vampires myself I understand what OP means. I was thinking of that as well that it would be cool to have a real Necromancer lead army. But it seems that with the current AB its hard to make such w/o Vampires. Something like Kemler and Krell would do just fine.

Ofc he doesn't have to play with von Carstein SC but isnt the fluff pretty von Carstein centered? While I can see vampires using a big raised undead army it still seems as that is more Necrmancer like behavior.

I guess it might be possible to make a very necromancer-like vampire build and then use it as counts as and have the cool necromancer lead army :).

BigbyWolf
22-03-2011, 17:55
While I dont mind Vampires myself I understand what OP means. I was thinking of that as well that it would be cool to have a real Necromancer lead army. But it seems that with the current AB its hard to make such w/o Vampires. Something like Kemler and Krell would do just fine.

Ofc he doesn't have to play with von Carstein SC but isnt the fluff pretty von Carstein centered? While I can see vampires using a big raised undead army it still seems as that is more Necrmancer like behavior.

I guess it might be possible to make a very necromancer-like vampire build and then use it as counts as and have the cool necromancer lead army :).

The latest book covers the Von Carsteins, as well as the Drakwald Fiend, the Master of Shadows, Neferata(?), Abhorash, Melkior and Zacarias and the Vampire Prince that lives in the Border Princes.

Forgive the spelling of the names...they escape me for the moment...

Most of the background is given over to the vampires of Sylvania, but that's to be expected, given their impact on the Empire.

Daniel36
22-03-2011, 18:11
I agree, they should've gone the way of the Necromancer. Or at least they should've done 3 different Undead armies. I mean, they did three Elf armies, right?

Tomb Kings
Undead
Vampire Counts

Yes, the name Undead may sound a bit strange among the others, but people will get the gist.

Vampire Counts would put the focus on the Vampiric Undead, so that could be Ghouls, Lesser Vampires, Ghosts and other silly stuff, while the Necromantic Undead army could be something along the line of "Zombies, zombies, zombies and skeletons" hehehehehhh...

No, but seriously, they should've done that. I personally dislike the emphasis on Vampires. I mean, I think it is cool, but I probably would've started an Undead army had the emphasis been on Necromancers, or at least the choice to do so.

nagash66
22-03-2011, 18:39
No, but seriously, they should've done that. I personally dislike the emphasis on Vampires. I mean, I think it is cool, but I probably would've started an Undead army had the emphasis been on Necromancers, or at least the choice to do so.

So you basically want the old Vampire count dex with a necromancer lord choice? Because that the only thing missing to make a Warhammer Armies Undead, maybe 1-2 special characters like The doom lord of Midenheim or whoever else.

There really isn't enough stuff to warrant 3 undead books, Necromancer armies= Vampire counts with a Lord Necromancer choice. Why do i say this? Unless you mean a Nagash army, then Necromancers have the same magic capabilities as Vampires, so there is NO excuse to have different units or magic in such a book. And a Nagash book would be limited to a summer event.

What would you give a undead book to make it worth it? Is there enough background reasoning for having such a book?

I would say no, Necromancer led armies of note are rare and far between, in addition they would be very limited in scope from a background perspective, and there is really no reason why it cant be done ( as it was in the past) by simply adding a few more choices to the VC book.

BigbyWolf
22-03-2011, 18:53
From the old Undead book, Liches were by far my favourite choice...I can't really remember much about them though.

Were they inbetween the combat prowess of the Vampire and the magical ability of the Necro?

Harwammer
22-03-2011, 19:09
Yeah, Liches were Level 3 wizards. The fluff was that they were Necromancers that had 'graduated' into the ranks of true undead as their magics had caused them to re-animate after dieing. Wraiths were pretty much failed attempts at becoming Liches (they managed to bind their souls to the physical world, but were unable to keep control over their corpse so they slowly fade away).

In game terms they were pretty powerful physically (on account of being magically powered) and magically (as only the best Necromancers have a chance to become a Liche after dieing). So yea, they were between Vampires (combat) and Necromancers (Magic) in terms of their role.

On the subject of Warhammer Armies: Undead did anyone else like the fact necromancers were able to purchase mummies on the black market from tomb raiders (the explanation of why they were found so far out of Khemri)? I did :P

ashc
22-03-2011, 19:28
I mourn the loss of better necromancers in the current book too.

mrtn
22-03-2011, 20:45
So you basically want the old Vampire count dex with a necromancer lord choice?
Yes please. :)
Undead are cool, while vampires (in my, Daniel36's and the OP's opinion) are not. Loads of people over the years have expressed similar opinions.

If the TK turns out to get a working armybook I may start up a barrow army.