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Oddball96
22-03-2011, 18:47
Im stuck between two armies, Ultramrines and Imperial Guard Cadians. So I wanted to now what other people thought of the two and which they prefer.:)

jack da greenskin
22-03-2011, 19:14
Both are generic, common and cliche.

Why not catachans, or black templars?

It's your choice, consider why you like those races. I'd go for ultramarines because they're cheaper, or cadians because they can be more competitive.

Bunnahabhain
22-03-2011, 19:14
Are you looking at:
Models
Paint scheme
Background
or some mix of these?

Ultramarines have these fairly well defined, Cadians don't.
You can, following the background, use any model or paint scheme for cadians.
You can use use Cadian models for 101 different varieties of guard.

Oddball96
22-03-2011, 19:33
Both are generic, common and cliche.

Why not catachans, or black templars?



Because I have some models for both armies, but I only want to do one or the other.


Are you looking at:
Models
Paint scheme
Background
or some mix of these?



I'm looking at a mix of models, paint scheme and background, but background and models are probably the things im looking for the most, price is also an important factor.:)

GoblinDan
22-03-2011, 19:40
I would go for Ultramarines. Despite the recent fluff writing by Mr Ward, they have some cool models, rules and a long history. The paint scheme is also quite easy to paint if your looking to get an army done quickly.

Marines are obviously quite forgiving to play and might be cheaper cash wise, even more so if you buy the starter set.

Though Cadians would not be a bad choice at all, but I would personally choose Ultramarines based on what you have said so far.

Mannimarco
22-03-2011, 19:42
Hmm......Cadians and Ultramarines.....what you want is the Tyrants Legion list found in IA9 and use it to "count as" the Ultramar PDF.

Yes you would still be using the old clichéd models but a different rule set to keep things interesting for both yourself and your opponent.

just saying ;)

Ville
22-03-2011, 19:51
I dig them both. Big, iconical armies. What's not to like?

I prefer Cadians though, as you can throw hordes of them at your enemy, and laugh while he tries to kill them all. You also get bigger guns, less accurate I admit but bigger still.

Actually I first collected and painted Ultramarines, but sold them to buy more Cadians. I have much more fun playing IG than Marines, they just suit my style better. I also enjoy the modelling side of IG more.

Oddball96
22-03-2011, 19:55
I would go for Ultramarines. Despite the recent fluff writing by Mr Ward, they have some cool models, rules and a long history. The paint scheme is also quite easy to paint if your looking to get an army done quickly.

Marines are obviously quite forgiving to play and might be cheaper cash wise, even more so if you buy the starter set.

Though Cadians would not be a bad choice at all, but I would personally choose Ultramarines based on what you have said so far.

Ultramarines do have cool models I would like to get the army painted quite quickly. Cadians and Ultramarines both have good fluff though and I've painted a few cadians in my time and I can paint them quite quickly and to a o.k. standard. (Well I think so any way:)) But I've also painted a Ultramarines captain and he turned out quite good and was painted quite quickly.

IcedAnimals
22-03-2011, 19:56
You said price is a factor. How important, because marines are definitely going to cost you less than guard.

Oddball96
22-03-2011, 19:57
I also enjoy the modelling side of IG more.

Why? What makes it more enjoyable?

Bunnahabhain
22-03-2011, 19:57
You also get bigger guns, less accurate I admit but bigger still.


I disagree. Both armies can run armies full of BS 4 troops, but Guard get things like BS4 snipers, vendettas( TL BS3 >>BS4) and to TL their off the board bombardment.....i.e Guard are more accurate!

On topic, that IA9 suggestion is interesting...

Oddball96
22-03-2011, 19:59
You said price is a factor. How important, because marines are definitely going to cost you less than guard.

Price is quite important, as I want to get an army up quite quickly but I don't have that much money. (But for a good enough reason price would no longer be an issue)

So far Ultramarines seem the better option but I'm still not sure.

Ville
22-03-2011, 21:01
Why? What makes it more enjoyable?

I have found it easy to "break the pattern" with Guard from time to time. You churn out lots of basic troops, and that's hard work. To counterbalance this, you can work with Veterans (non-standard equipment and not so uniformed and tidy look), Penal Legionnaires (mine are zombie Guardsmen:angel:), Psyker Battle Squads and many other colourful choices. They don't have to look like anything else to fit in.

Ultramarines have variety too, that's for sure. To me, they just feel like a more serious bunch (OK, Cadians are quite serious too:skull:) and a bit less imaginative. In the end it all depends on the person doing all the modelling and painting. In my case, I feel free to do anything I fancy when tinkering with my Cadians.

Oddball96
22-03-2011, 21:09
I have found it easy to "break the pattern" with Guard from time to time. Veterans (non-standard equipment and not so uniformed and tidy look), Penal Legionnaires (mine are zombie Guardsmen:angel:), Psyker Battle Squads and many other colourful choices. They don't have to look like anything else to fit in.



That is tempting as I do like to do veriety as I have a tendancy to get bored easealy and with Ultramarines I would probably do the basic colour scheme. Maybe Cadians would be the better option. Whats your opinion on their background (fluff)?

Ville
22-03-2011, 21:25
Maybe Cadians would be the better option. Whats your opinion on their background (fluff)?

They're just a bunch (BIG bunch) of little guys standing by the Edge Of Abysmal Terror And Evil, shouting: "You...shall...not...pass!"

Their actual background seems quite scarce, but the basic idea is enough for me. I have enjoyed coming up with my own fluff as my army has grown. There are many little stories amongst the ranks of my Eight Balls, named after their round black helmets.

Oddball96
22-03-2011, 21:31
I knew the basic Cadian back ground, Cadia is by the eye of terror is under siege by Chaos they kept the Chaos at bay while over Imperial Guard regiments and at least one chapter of spacemarines helped by the cadians to capture the planets previously taken by chaos in the system and the Chaos siege of Cadia is still going on. But I was wondering if their was anything else. The idea of making fluff for your own cadian regiments sound cool though. Hmmmmmmmmm Tempting.

Telesedrin
22-03-2011, 21:32
Cadians have a way cooler fluff than Ultramarines.

Cadians being in a doomed fortress world in the eye of terror holding the chaos warp at bay, by sheer numbers and determination.

Ultramarines being ZOMG SOOPAR SOLJERZ barely fighting off a little tendril of the tyranid swarm.

So.... Holding the entire (mainly) forces of Chaos at bay VS nearly getting wiped out by a swarm of Tyranids....

Shame on Ultramar for sucking compared to humans.

Oddball96
22-03-2011, 21:36
Thats quite a good point but Tyranids do evolve at an amazing rate, their like coachroaches there ennoying and hard to kill, but then again you can't predict Chaos.

silence
22-03-2011, 21:41
Cadians all the way!

Seriously though, a couple of questions, what do you think of the IG tanks? If you went guard what kind of army do you want? ie horde, mechanised, airborne etc.

Have you had a look at Forge World? I know that price is a factor, but long term FW do some nice pieces for the IG.

Personally I think that IG can provide you with far more personality and allow you alot more personalisation with both background modelling and painting than Ultramarines, I mean if you get bored painting the basic troops then there are Ogryns, Roughriders (or even quad riders for Cadians), Ratlings etc.

Finally what do the people around you play? Chances are there are already alot of marine players, and probably not so many IG armies, and do you want to play lots of marine vs marine games?

theJ
22-03-2011, 21:45
My first advice would be to ignore both.
It is usually funnier to come up with your own regiments or chapters, because then they are, y'know, YOURS.
Remember: there are very few "ultramarine" models, they are merely "marine" models. About the same with the Cadians, really.
A "homebrew" chapter/regiment has exactly the fluff you want them to have, they have exactly the colourscheme you want them to, they've got exactly the doctrines you want them to, there will never come any "official" fluff screwups that will forever taint your beloved army, and best of all, you won't see a quadrillion other armies just like yours.
It will be... unique.

If that's not your cup of tea however, my vote's gonna have to be Cadians. They're just a lot more relatable than the Ultras.

Firmlog
22-03-2011, 21:50
I'd do cadians. They are easy enough to paint basic color scheme, Catachan green armor, Foundation tan (Can't think of the name) for cloth, chainmail for metal. If you want to highlight, mithril for metal, camo green for armor, wash with brown or highlight with bleached bone. Pretty simple paint scheme and fast, All the colors cover very well. Oh, theres flesh too but thats every army. You can get a good basecoat on the models and have them look ok (especially with lots of em') and not need to highlight till all the models are base coated.

You really don't need anymore guardsmen than a marine army unless you want to go heavily troops. In fact you will likely have less guardsmen than many marine armies if you go tank heavy, Both guard and marines will use plenty of tanks so thats no different either.

Now I also liked the idea of Ultramar guardsmen, though I don't know the color scheme if you have reasons for the fluff of Ultramarines.

Ultramarines (space marines in general) are much easier beginner armies. That said you'd probably loose a lot while learning anyways, and guard can put out a ton of shooty. Guard have a larger model line, or at least one with greater diversity of models, Heavy tanks, artillery tanks, close support tanks, better transports, weaker walkers, fliers, troopers, veterans, ogryns, snipers, psychers. SM have Tanks, heavy transports, drop pods, transports, support transports, troopers, Assault troopers, better character psykers, dreadnoughts. Many of the marine models are similar so it could be possible to make one model with more options, guard can to but marines more so.

Marines assualt better, anything a marine can shoot, guard shoot better and/or at least more of, but when it comes to assault your best option is to drown your enemies in the blood of your fallen. That last part is one of the funnest parts of guard actually. Its great to slaughter opponents with you terminators but way more exciting to kill off the same terminator squad with a (many) simple guardsman.

Currently I think guard when played by experienced players fairs better against a wider array of armies without tooling than marines. As a beginner it will be very enjoyable to toss 3+ large blasts a turn on your opponents.

Plus I hate Ultramarines. JMO.

Oddball96
22-03-2011, 21:52
Making my own chapter does sound like a good idea as I have some Vostroyan and Catachen models as well as Cadian but I think I might just go Cadians if I do Imperial Guard instead of macking my own as I like reading books about the army I choose.

Firmlog
22-03-2011, 22:00
Have you picked up either of the codex's to read through, that would probably help out the decision.

The Highlander
22-03-2011, 22:07
As a veteran guard player and commander of the 2nd Cadian parachute battalion (along with two other guard armies) all I can do is quote what someone used to have as their signature.

“Power armour’s for whims! Real men go into battle out the back of a Valkyrie at 50 feet!”

One other small point, if you have other guard models you can use them in your army without much trouble. Either use them for specific units (such as veterans), or just mix a few squads in with the rest.

Oddball96
22-03-2011, 22:13
Have you picked up either of the codex's to read through, that would probably help out the decision.

I've got both Codex's.

Oddball96
22-03-2011, 22:28
I think I'll do Imperial Guard Cadians, but I might do Ultramarines at a later date thanks for all the help everyone.

Navar
22-03-2011, 22:39
Hmm......Cadians and Ultramarines.....what you want is the Tyrants Legion list found in IA9 and use it to "count as" the Ultramar PDF.

Yes you would still be using the old clichéd models but a different rule set to keep things interesting for both yourself and your opponent.

just saying ;)

This is gold.

Mannimarco
22-03-2011, 23:40
This is gold.

I thought so yeah

KingDeath
23-03-2011, 00:57
A well done Ultramarines army can be a fine sight to behold.

Croosader
23-03-2011, 06:31
ultramarines are cool but cadians have a nice down to earth feel. Personally id choose the ultramarines but painting cadians would look really nice. It is also determined by strategy. Ultramarines have a different game plan than cadians. look at how they play then choose

Oddball96
23-03-2011, 07:13
A well done Ultramarines army can be a fine sight to behold.

That's true, but I've seen some Cadian armies lately which would certanly give Ultramarines a run for their money.


ultramarines are cool but cadians have a nice down to earth feel. Personally id choose the ultramarines but painting cadians would look really nice. It is also determined by strategy. Ultramarines have a different game plan than cadians. look at how they play then choose

I see what you meen by down to earth feel. The comment about how they play is intresting though.

laudarkul
23-03-2011, 09:42
If you can both of them would be perfect.
If not Cadians...The best of Imperial Guard. Plentry of army lists to choose from so a lot of models (for the hobby part is heaven :angel: ).

Oddball96
23-03-2011, 18:40
If you can both of them would be perfect.


I can't multi task very well plus I don't presently have the time or money to do both armies.

scarletsquig
23-03-2011, 18:50
Making my own chapter does sound like a good idea as I have some Vostroyan and Catachen models as well as Cadian but I think I might just go Cadians if I do Imperial Guard instead of macking my own as I like reading books about the army I choose.

If you like reading the books, then definitely go for Cadians, there's a lot of good books out there for guard and they tend to be more interesting than the space marine books, simply because they actually have a fight on their hands, millions die and they're actual humans that you can relate to, and the better black library writers do a lot more with them. Regular humans are free to be humorous, downright evil (even if they're the good guys) and emotional whereas marines are pretty much just blank slate killing machines.

Because of this, space marine books have a bad habit of falling into the trap of the plot being nothing but "This bunch of 5 marines killed like 50000 enemy, with no casualties, then they beat up the big evil bad guy in the last chapter. The end.". That's a summary of the vast majority of space marine books, very few of them deviate from that at their core.

Lord_Crull
23-03-2011, 20:29
Cadians have a way cooler fluff than Ultramarines.

Cadians being in a doomed fortress world in the eye of terror holding the chaos warp at bay, by sheer numbers and determination.

Ultramarines being ZOMG SOOPAR SOLJERZ barely fighting off a little tendril of the tyranid swarm.

So.... Holding the entire (mainly) forces of Chaos at bay VS nearly getting wiped out by a swarm of Tyranids....

Shame on Ultramar for sucking compared to humans.

Behemoth is hardly a ''little tendril'' and the Cadians arn'talone around the Cadian Gate.

Oddball96
24-03-2011, 07:16
Thanks for all the help. I have decided to go Cadians for the choice of colour schemes, the fluff (I realy like the background you get of the different models in the new Imperial Guard Codex) and the fact I can relate to them easear then I can spacemarines, but I'll defantly consider Ultramarines if I do another 40'k army.

SockMonkey
24-03-2011, 07:43
Simple. Ultramar PDF/guard regiment. Use the Cadians paint them blue and white. At least they will be a different flavor of the every day same'ol same'ol.