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View Full Version : Wood/High Elf comparison (And some HE questions)



Gav2k
24-03-2011, 10:00
Morning all!

Lately, I've been looking at other armies to begin after finishing my Wood Elves.
One of the many I've been looking at is High Elves. They cater to my love of slender, sleek, clean, and skillful warriors (rather than brute force warriors).

However, I know virtually nothing about High Elves on the tabletop. How do they play, especially in comparison to my Wood Elves? In my head they would play very similar to a WE Forest Spirit army, am I right in this assumption?

Another question is... is it a viable tactic to use exclusively Sea Guard for Core? I hate the Spear/Archer elf models. If I were to add Archers to my army, that would be fine - I could just use Glade Guard models.

I'll try and Nutshell this - I'm looking for a good CC army, and High Elves are an army I'd consider collecting. Are they good as a CC army (with support of course)? And how different are they from Woodies?

Cheers guys, I appreciate all the responses!

-Gav

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
24-03-2011, 11:13
Morning all!

Lately, I've been looking at other armies to begin after finishing my Wood Elves.
One of the many I've been looking at is High Elves. They cater to my love of slender, sleek, clean, and skillful warriors (rather than brute force warriors).

However, I know virtually nothing about High Elves on the tabletop. How do they play, especially in comparison to my Wood Elves? In my head they would play very similar to a WE Forest Spirit army, am I right in this assumption?

Another question is... is it a viable tactic to use exclusively Sea Guard for Core? I hate the Spear/Archer elf models. If I were to add Archers to my army, that would be fine - I could just use Glade Guard models.

I'll try and Nutshell this - I'm looking for a good CC army, and High Elves are an army I'd consider collecting. Are they good as a CC army (with support of course)? And how different are they from Woodies?

Cheers guys, I appreciate all the responses!

-Gav

Hi Gav,

I'm still relatively new to 8th Edition but I've played about 10 games with my High Elves army in this Edition and I think I can answer some of your questions concerning how the army works.

First lets contrast what the High Elves can't do that the Wood Elves do better IMO:

1) High Elf shooting troops aren't the best in the game and most High Elves players will not rely on it to do much. Longbows & bows are only STR 3, suffer from shooting penalties from movement that Wood Elves don't have, and even with volley fire you aren't going to kill a lot of things (the targets will either make their armor saves or you'll fail to wound the majority of the models in the unit). Frankly a lot needs to go into making a shooting force work in a High Elf army (RBTs with lots of magic support for Archers/LSG particularly Lore of Metal, Lore of Fire, and/or Curse of Arrow Attraction from the High Magic Lore for them to do any decent amount of damage).

2) High Elves don't have Monsters or Monsterous Units to field to bolster their close combat capability (We have ridden Monsters but they are sometimes cost prohibitive)

3) We don't have a lot of flanking elements like the Wood Elves do (specifically scouts, Waywatchers, Warhawks Riders, Wild Riders, Wardancers, Dryads, & Great Eagles). The ones that we do have, Shadow Warriors; Ellryian Reavers; & Great Eagles, the former is overcosted for what they do while the Reavers can't really do much damage on their own. The Great Eagles perform a similar role in a High Elves army that they do in a Wood Elf army I would assume.


Now what the High Elves can do better than Wood Elves are:

1) Core units like Spearmen & Lothern Seaguard are relatively good against other core units of other armies due to their special rules (Speed of Asuryan & Marital Prowess). LSG also have the option of shooting which combined the attributes of the Spearmen & Archer. However their point cost starts to approach that of the Elite Infantry units if you go this route.

I can't say which is better LSG vs. Spearmen/Archer combos as you'll get varied opinions on the subject. I think it depends on your needs whether you'll field one over the other. I'd use LSG against armies whose troops uses little or no armor while field Spearmen/Archers against armies with little to no firepower.

2) Magic support is much stronger in a High Elf force as you have access to the entire Lore of Magic in the BSB as well as High Magic from the army book so you could potentially tailor your magic to aid your force against any army in the game. In addition High Elf mages can dispel magic spells at a higher level than other mages in the game.

3) The true strengths of the High Elf army comes from the special choices, specifically White Lions, Swordmasters, Phoenix Guard, & Dragon Princes (usually in that order). Each troop type fill a particular niche in the army and each regiment I've listed above can be given additional magic banners and magic items for their champions making them flexible to meet any criteria you might need. All of these units are strong in close combat too becuase they either combined high strength/high volume of attacks, great armor saves with above average strength attacks, or some combination of these factors. Coupled all these with the Speed of Asuryan army wide rule some players would say the High Elf army have an "unfair advantage" in hand to hand combat.

If you want more ideas for what to expect from a high elf force read the tactica thread here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260211

I hope that helps.

Gav2k
24-03-2011, 11:43
Thanks for your post, Pointy Headed Elven Paladin! I'll take a look at the Tactica thread now.
I like the sound of them, I'm not the biggest fan of Monsterous Infantry anyway, but I would miss the Treeman :P

Now, the special-choices you listed. Everytime they come up in a High Elf thread, there's hot debate on which is "best" suited for the army. What exactly are their advantages/disadvantages?

From what I can gather, White Lions are a strong hitter, and with fair defence, but what's their weakness? Swordmasters are similar, but I think they sacrifice some attack power for more defence? Pheonix Guard have HW/S combos, I'm guessing they're even more defensive? Dragon Princes are mounted, right? What's their role in the army?

Thanks!
Gav

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
24-03-2011, 12:03
Thanks for your post, Pointy Headed Elven Paladin! I'll take a look at the Tactica thread now.
I like the sound of them, I'm not the biggest fan of Monsterous Infantry anyway, but I would miss the Treeman :P

Now, the special-choices you listed. Everytime they come up in a High Elf thread, there's hot debate on which is "best" suited for the army. What exactly are their advantages/disadvantages?

From what I can gather, White Lions are a strong hitter, and with fair defence, but what's their weakness? Swordmasters are similar, but I think they sacrifice some attack power for more defence? Pheonix Guard have HW/S combos, I'm guessing they're even more defensive? Dragon Princes are mounted, right? What's their role in the army?

Thanks!
Gav

Well here is a short break down of the Elites that's most commonly used in HE armies:

White Lions: Great weapons with ASF & rerolls to hit due to the Speed of Asuryan rules, Stubborn so they always are steadfast, has good saves vs. shooting thanks to their Lion Cloaks. If combined with a BSB they are notoriously hard to break in close combat.

Swordmasters: Great weapons with ASF & rerolls to hit due to the Speed of Asuryan rules & has 2 attacks. Usually fielded in MSU groups of 12 to 14 with 6x2 or 7x2 frontage for a possible 18 to 21 attacks (19 to 22 with a champion included in the mix). They are usually sent in to tarpit medium size units, clear watch towers in the watch tower scenarios, & for flanking actions in multi-charges.

Phoenix Guard: Causes fear, armed with halberds, and have a decent ward save. They are used as Anvils to hold regiments in place for the other elite units to finish off.

Dragon Princes: Heavy armored cavalry with very good ward saves against flaming attacks. They also do quite a bit of damage as each model has 2 attacks with STR 5 on the charge due to their Lances. They are as fast as Bretonnian Knights and can dish out almost as much damage as a full Lance formation of KoTR with only 5 models. The also have the Speed of Asuryan rule. Most HE players use these guys as flanking units (we have a special banner that allow them to ignore dangerous terrain checks) or to wipe out small/weak units of infantry or warmachines.

popisdead
24-03-2011, 17:46
High Elves do not really have support units so you have to win combat face to face. Hence why they ASF is so needed for them.

I don't think they play like Wood Elves (being a long time WE general) but they die fast like Wood Elves.

Sea Guard are pretty good but costly in points. A horde of Archers is effective and a 50-man horde of spearmen with Mindrazor backing them up is brutal.

It's 'your' army, use what models you want.

HE have good shooting and good magic to back an elite fighty army.

eron12
24-03-2011, 18:23
Thanks for your post, Pointy Headed Elven Paladin! I'll take a look at the Tactica thread now.
I like the sound of them, I'm not the biggest fan of Monsterous Infantry anyway, but I would miss the Treeman :P

Now, the special-choices you listed. Everytime they come up in a High Elf thread, there's hot debate on which is "best" suited for the army. What exactly are their advantages/disadvantages?

From what I can gather, White Lions are a strong hitter, and with fair defence, but what's their weakness? Swordmasters are similar, but I think they sacrifice some attack power for more defence? Pheonix Guard have HW/S combos, I'm guessing they're even more defensive? Dragon Princes are mounted, right? What's their role in the army?

Thanks!
Gav

The Paladin described it well, but I wanted to comment, so here I am. I like to look at the three elite infantry as a continum.

Swordmasters are the deadliest, with great weapons, the highest WS, and two attacks. They are also the frailest, with only heavy armor.

White Lions are the middle choice. A slightly higher strength, but slightly lower WS and only one attack. They are stuborn and have a bonus armor save vs shooting, so they don't die quite as easily.

Finally Phoenix Guard are the defensive choice. They have halbards, which with Speed of Asyrian have the downside of GWs with only half the benifit, making for less killing power. On the defensive side they cause fear and have a good ward save, making them the toughest to cut down.

After watching and playing a few games of 8th I still have no idea which unit I like the best of how my army will feature them. I have been quite impressed by the killing power of the white lions, especally against monsters, but the swordmasters can cut down swaths of foes, especally T3. On the other hand, I have seen the power of the phoenix guard ward save, and how especally with a hero or two in the unit, can rack up decent kills while minimizing casualties.

Kellindel
24-03-2011, 19:28
It's good to have the Guard there for your mage. If you mis-cast and cause damage to the unit, their Ward Save allows a better chance for their survival.

The real key with the army, which I have found, is that you really need to have proper magic to back up your units. That's when you can make sure that you're getting the most out of your units if/when they get into combat.

The units you pick work well depending on what types of armies you're fighting.

But if you have a mage, I would say a unit (even is a small one), of Guard is manditory.

I'm sure others will have something to say about this but it's my opinion.