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View Full Version : Qucik Few Questions before I jump over to 40k.



Danny_D14
26-03-2011, 01:58
Hey there,

I have finished collecting my Lizardmen army together and the urge to start a 40k army has been overwhelming in recent months, I've gone from knowing absolutely nothing about 40k to gaining quite a decent amount of knowledge to the point I'm not so intimidated to read a Horus Heresy book now in case I didn't understand what was happening.

I really have a few questions about creating a 40k army that appeals to me.

1. Are Dark Angels or Sisters of Battle fun to play with?

2. Is it true that SoB can be taken as dogs of war in other appropriate armies? That's what I gather from reading the codex anyway. I'd love to mix the two :)

3. Is it worthwhile getting any of these armies right now? I believe they've been out a long time and possibly won't be getting a codex any time soon I imagine?

Thanks to any that answer :)

Draigo
26-03-2011, 02:06
1) all armies, bar necrons, tau, and eldar, are fun to play with. Basically, as long as the codex is good enough to give you two competitive units per force slot, you can have tons of fun.

2) yes, you can sorta run sisters in imperial armies, but that's getting phased out when they get a new book. Not long 'til that happens.

3) dark angels are all sorts of bad outside ravenwing/deathwing, and sisters cost a lot of money, and are all metal. Angels aren't getting a new book for awhile, but sisters are likely to be out before the year's over.

Justicar Thawn
26-03-2011, 02:14
1) all armies, bar necrons, tau, and eldar, are fun to play with. Basically, as long as the codex is good enough to give you two competitive units per force slot, you can have tons of fun.

2) yes, you can sorta run sisters in imperial armies, but that's getting phased out when they get a new book. Not long 'til that happens.

3) dark angels are all sorts of bad outside ravenwing/deathwing, and sisters cost a lot of money, and are all metal. Angels aren't getting a new book for awhile, but sisters are likely to be out before the year's over.

I disagree, eldar (well mechdar) are fun to play and can be very competitive.

Mini77
26-03-2011, 02:16
I'm gonna disagree with Draigo here, but as a Tau, Necrons, Dark Angels AND Eldar player I can say they can all be fun armies.

If you're looking for super-competitive lists then yes, you're going to be restricted in your builds, but if you want to play the game and have some fun with like minded people all those armies are viable.

Draigo
26-03-2011, 02:17
It's not fun to play the exact same list, with the exact same tactics, forever.

Xelloss
26-03-2011, 02:20
1/ Fun to have ? Yes. Fun to play ? Depends. Are you masochist ?
2/ You can include a limited quantity in Imperial armies. Usually as Sisters rely on faith points, you'll want to have a full sister army or they will often be a burden more than anything. Also, you need to be pure SoB to use Exorcists
3/ Objectively ? No. They are underpowered, when SW, BA and GK are overpowered. As a beginner in 40K you'll just be crushed it won't be much fun.
If you're just interested in assembling and painting, SoB are among the most beautiful miniatures, so they are worth getting in an hobby point of view.

Justicar Thawn
26-03-2011, 02:21
If you're looking for super-competitive lists then yes, you're going to be restricted in your builds, but if you want to play the game and have some fun with like minded people all those armies are viable.

Thats right, they might not be competitive as some other armies but you can still have fun at your lgs

Danny_D14
26-03-2011, 02:27
Thanks for all the speedy and helpful replies :) I think I'll wait for the new SoB that should hopefully get released later this year as I do really like that army the most. As to what kind of fun I was talking about. Just fun games really I'm not a competitive player.

I am a masochist though Xellos :)

Thanks again!

Xelloss
26-03-2011, 02:34
Sisters of Battle have a very unique way of being played, which makes them interesting. Space marine creep just make it not viable. If you plan to play against non-SM armies it can be manageable.

Achaylus72
26-03-2011, 02:41
As long as you don't become the Billionth Space Marine Fanboy

Woodsman
26-03-2011, 03:00
It's not fun to play the exact same list, with the exact same tactics, forever.

Having played eldar for some years I don't play the same list/tactics 'for ever'.

I think you're confusing internet copy and paste tournie lists with fun play.

My eldar list is a lot of fun. I've got a fair bit to do in every phase, lots of different styles in the one army. Awesome looking models and I think about what I do each turn rather than selecting targets and rolling some dice.

ehlijen
26-03-2011, 03:26
Draigo, could you please not state something as subjective as what's fun in the form of an absolute statment? It really makes it hard not to take offence.

Both Tau and Eldar have plenty of units and allow for a fair bit of customisation. And while they may not be internet popular, they can still be fairly powerful, just like any army.
Necrons, sure, they are a bit bland, but they still have their players so I can only assume at least they think they're fun despite the lack of variety.

DuskRaider
26-03-2011, 03:30
Pretty much all of the armies can be fun, if from anything else, a collector's stand point. I'd recommend Dark Eldar. They're the most balanced of the new codices, they can be very powerful, but they're not forgiving. Yes, you will probably lose most of your initial games. But once you make it over that learning curve, you'll have mastered a very tactical force with a whole line of new and beautiful models.

DuskRaider
26-03-2011, 03:48
If you take offense to what's said on a discussion board about toy soldiers, don't you think it's time you grow up a bit?

He asked what's fun and what's not. I told him it's not fun to play the exact same thing over and over.
Armies cost money, and you want to get the maximum enjoyment out of your investment.

The thing is, you don't just have to play what's powerful! If you like the model, you think the unit fits your taste or style or you just want to see it on the board or maybe even just paint it. I love Necrons... I'm thinking of collecting them at some point. Are they powerful? No. Do their models look awesome? Yeah.

Listen, Danny... you play what you like the most. Don't worry about power levels or competitive builds. Go on GW's site, look at each army, and decide which one you like the feel of the most. That's the best way to pick an army.

eyescrossed
26-03-2011, 04:44
The thing is, you don't just have to play what's powerful! If you like the model, you think the unit fits your taste or style or you just want to see it on the board or maybe even just paint it. I love Necrons... I'm thinking of collecting them at some point. Are they powerful? No. Do their models look awesome? Yeah.

Listen, Danny... you play what you like the most. Don't worry about power levels or competitive builds. Go on GW's site, look at each army, and decide which one you like the feel of the most. That's the best way to pick an army.

This.

Draigo seems to be a competative player who can't have any enjoyment if he loses.

ehlijen
26-03-2011, 05:00
If you take offense to what's said on a discussion board about toy soldiers, don't you think it's time you grow up a bit?

He asked what's fun and what's not. I told him it's not fun to play the exact same thing over and over.
Armies cost money, and you want to get the maximum enjoyment out of your investment.

And in the process you called every eldar, tau and necron player wrong for still enjoying the armies they play.

This isn't about toy soldiers, this is about you assuming your definition of fun applies to everyone.

eyescrossed
26-03-2011, 05:23
For once I find myself agreeing with you, ehlijen :)

Kettu
26-03-2011, 05:54
...but that's getting phased out when they get a new book. Not long 'til that happens...sisters are likely to be out before the year's over.

Where are people getting this from? Last time anything was said it was that GW wouldn't start them till the year is mostly over.

eyescrossed
26-03-2011, 06:59
Yes, you are. You're also prone to using hyperbole.

Not everyone plays to win, Draigo.

Draigo
26-03-2011, 07:03
Yes, they do.
That's why people get so angry when they lose all the time, and start blaming codex creep, Ward, Kelly's cheese wolves, or what have you.

ChrisIronBrow
26-03-2011, 07:07
Listen, Danny... you play what you like the most. Don't worry about power levels or competitive builds. Go on GW's site, look at each army, and decide which one you like the feel of the most. That's the best way to pick an army.

I have to say, that's probably the worst possible advice anyone will ever give you. Sadly it's what 90% of people here are going to say. Right now 40k is terribly balanced, and if you pick the wrong army you will lose over and over and over again. As long as that's ok with you pick whatever army you like the look of, otherwise I suggest you start reading up on the different armies tournament builds since these get played most of the time at your "lgs" anyways.

Soupcat
26-03-2011, 07:10
To be fair when he uses what is probably the poorest written mary sue character in a codex to date that happens to have decent rules is it really a surprise he acts like a WAAC troll?

eyescrossed
26-03-2011, 07:12
Yes, they do.
That's why people get so angry when they lose all the time, and start blaming codex creep, Ward, Kelly's cheese wolves, or what have you.

No, they complain because it's not fun to play against armies like that. I find Skaven in Fantasy fun to play against, even though I lose a lot of the time, and they're one of (if not the) top armies at the moment.


I can't believe what's happened to the hobby. People used to be laughed at for playing cheesy armies and got called beardy, but now people are being mocked or looked down on for playing weaker or fluffy armies. Not in this thread specifically, just in general.

Draigo
26-03-2011, 07:12
Nah, that's only what warseer tells you.
Truth is, you can compete with all EXCEPT THE FOLLOWING: demons, necrons.
The following have a grand total of one build that works, so aren't all that fun to play: eldar, tau, sisters of battle, dark angels, black templars, chaos marines.

It's largely because they're old, so were made for a completely different game, by a completely different team, and with completely different design in mind.

Really, all the 5th edition books are good, and equal in power. Imperial guard and space wolves are the EASIEST of these to play, while marines and dark eldar are harder.

Yes, you can play eldar with swooping hawks, an avatar, 20 warp spiders, foot guardians with shurken catapults, wraithguard, and one warwalker, but all that costs money - money you could use to buy the good units.
It's not a free hobby, you know.

eyescrossed
26-03-2011, 07:42
You're conveniently forgetting Tyranids and Daemons (they are, in fact, a 5th edition book - they were designed with it in mind).

Also, it used to be about picking the models and units you liked the look of, or a fluffy army. Those used to be the "good" units. Now it's whoever can buy the new "ZOMGBUYTHIS" with every release.

Draigo
26-03-2011, 08:11
Demons are as 5th edition as fantasy beastmen are 8th edition.
Modern armies are good, and have lots of choice. If you like vikings, you can run space wolves with pretty much whatever unit you want, and it'll work on the table.

Unlike eldar and tau.

eyescrossed
26-03-2011, 08:15
Demons were a bad example.
Modern armies are borderline broken, and have lots of shiny new models. If you like winning, you can run space wolves with pretty much whatever unit you want, and it'll work on the table.

Unlike eldar and tau.

Fixed it for you.


EDIT: You also conveniently forgot Tyranids. Again.

Draigo
26-03-2011, 08:17
But if everybody's broken, and competes fine with each other, and it's only you and people like you, who pretend there's something to gain from running bad, old, ancient armies, are the new books to blame for your perceived misery?

eyescrossed
26-03-2011, 08:20
But if everybody's broken, and competes fine with each other, and it's only you and people like you, who pretend there's something to gain from running bad, old, ancient armies, are the new books to blame for your perceived misery?

I see a contradiction. Somehow everybody is broken when there are "bad, old, ancient armies".

Also, not everyone is a bandwagonner. I've been collecting Tyranids for over five years because I like their fluff and models. I'm not going to spend hundreds of dollars just to move over to another army that I don't enjoy the background or looks of as much.

Failtroll is fail.

Draigo
26-03-2011, 08:24
Yes, because you don't complain on the old, bad books. You're all about how 5th edition is bad, and the new kids are immune to being guilted.

Like it's somehow a bad thing to aim for victory, or teach young people to do it.
You know, because real life rewards losers sooo much in the first place.

eyescrossed
26-03-2011, 08:30
I'm going to stop feeding the troll, but I will point out that it's just a game.

Have a nice day, Mr Troll :)

Woodsman
26-03-2011, 10:50
Don't even bother eyes, its no worth it. Weirdly enough he knows and quoted one of my eldar lists.


The problem with collecting for power is that things change down the road. My harlequins rocked second, third - what harlequins? The eldar being derided were nigh on unbeatable in 4th cheesefalcon ftw.

Bubonic Chronic
26-03-2011, 11:08
@Draigo


I run a semi mech eldar list which I came in 2nd in a small local tournament
I also ran a foot templar army, my mate ran a necron army.
We won more than we lost, they were by no means the most efficient armies possible, but they looked **** cool

Something wrong with this? Am I playing warhammer wrong by not having the most competitive armies possible? I play with the models I like the look of,

I fully support the idea of playing with an army that you enjoy the look of or the fluff. Competitiveness is ruining my lgs. I am the only non space wolf, blood angel or imp parking lot player. Every one plays the same tactics, with the same models. I win probably 80% of the games just because i am so used to playing the same competitive lists with my old codexs.

Play an army you like the look of. If you want to be a bandwagoner, just look at the armylist thread and copy one of them

philbrad2
26-03-2011, 11:20
Thread locked pending investigation

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