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View Full Version : Daemon princes - Are they a visual no-go if you're not khorne?



xxRavenxx
26-03-2011, 19:57
I think the new plastic demon prince kit is... ok. Very average, but its reasonable, if not cartoony.

I sat down yesterday to convert one to be a Tzeentch daemon prince, for a daemon army.

I had already made plans to switch the head for the bird one from the spawn kit, to help with the theme, and to pull it away from the grinning lizard heads.

My first thoughts on the kit were this:

Why does his right hand just look like a giant normal fist? Why hasn't he got clawed fingers, or somesuch.

I then built up the feet,legs and torso, and sat looking it over. Lizard feet, scaley back ridge, squatting posture.

They *Really* wanted this guy to look like a khorne demon it seems.

I discarded the bat wings, and finished adding parts, trimming and repositioning him (hes amazingly static, with each limb going in exactly one position) then spent 30 mins greenstuffing in my new gaps, repairing areas where I'd hacked off lizard features, and generally adjusting him.

Once dry, I primed him blue, and gave him an ink wash to check out the details more clearly... and discovered his chest has a heaving angular 8 pack... This got greenstuffed over with speed.

So I now have a model I'm moderately pleased with, which has... 40%? Of its original details left, has been cut in two in at least two places, and still has the legs of a squatting lizardman... :S

So I wondered... how usable is he, aesthetically, if you're not khorne? He just seems way too heavily designed as a human prince, (ie, not for a daemon army) and he just wouldnt suit nurgle nor tzeentch, nor slaneesh I imagine, based on your oppinion of the god.

Obrimos
26-03-2011, 21:04
The generic deamon prince is, well... generic.
Which means the style is focused on chaos undivided.
This is represented by having horns, spikes, ornate armour and barbaric features. Just like the normal Chaos Space Marines.

This represents best the Black Legion.

Problem with Chaos is its diversity. If you have to design a single miniature line you need to focus on one style.

The metal demonprince from last edition represents just as much chaos undivided as the new one (albeit, he looks more like a SM).
This is why a seperate Nurgle demon prince was designed.

I have to admit that the differences from chaos undivided to khorne are rather subtle stylewise. Proper Khorne conversions usually take less time than conversions for the other gods. A lot of elements are shared, maybe because Khorne is the most straightforeward of designs.

Still, as chaos players we should be both used and encouraged to make radical conversions anyway.

Chapters Unwritten
26-03-2011, 21:07
I think it's a lot better than the metal one, which looks great but is very obviously Khornate in nature.

Achaylus72
26-03-2011, 22:41
Jeez no matter what they bring out, my experience shows that some will never be happy.

I can't wait till i can replace my Metal Daemon Prince Achaylus for a Plastic one but that is some time off, and Daemy P Achaylus is Non-Alligned.

And a Generic Plastic Daemy P is perfect for him

omnivision6
26-03-2011, 23:03
Jeez no matter what they bring out, my experience shows that some will never be happy.

I can't wait till i can replace my Metal Daemon Prince Achaylus for a Plastic one but that is some time off, and Daemy P Achaylus is Non-Alligned.

And a Generic Plastic Daemy P is perfect for him

This. far too much nerdraging going on.

Seth the Dark
26-03-2011, 23:07
I don't think it's too bad. Say for Nurgle, I could punch holes in the wings and greenstuff a bloated belly if I wanted to.

ShodansOwn
26-03-2011, 23:14
I'm sure there could have been some plate-bits, like should blade area, head options, hand options that could have made it very morphable. Think Carnifex. Sometimes I think GW says "Well we cant please everyone, so lets just please one group".

Darnok
26-03-2011, 23:14
Personally, I'm quite happy with the kit.

For Khorne and Tzeentch, it is more or less up to the paint scheme, or minor conversions. When the kit was released, there was an excellent painting guide in the WD, which suited Tzeentch just perfectly. And even for Slaanesh, I think the model works fine, even though I'd go for some conversions.

As for Nurgle: I actually prefer the metal model for this one. Sure, Green Stuff can do a lot, but the price difference between both kits is not that much, and the Nurgle prince is a pretty nice model...

Gatsby
26-03-2011, 23:23
if you kitbash a lord of change and the new plastic demon prince it (possibly) looks AMAZING (if you do it right.)

on its own i neither hate nor love it (although it is an improvement over the old one IMO.)

Mercutius
26-03-2011, 23:38
I have kitbashed the metal deamon prince and a lord of change into a tzeench deamon prince, if you are interested, you can find pictures on the first side of my Night Lord Plog, the link is in my signature. CC are very welcome :-)

Nurgling Chieftain
27-03-2011, 00:16
Chaos is, by nature, very conversion friendly. Which is good, because only the Spawn seems to have been designed with sufficient flexibility to represent most of the range. And even then, Nurgle has such a unique style to it that it's almost impossible for something to look nurglesque without having been designed that way. The others aren't so bad; I had little difficulty making Tzeentch and Slaanesh daemon princes, even though I did spend some quality time with my Tide of Spawn box.


He just seems way too heavily designed as a human prince, (ie, not for a daemon army)...:confused: The fluff for Daemon Princes is that they're ascended mortals. Both for Chaos Daemons and for CSM.

xxRavenxx
27-03-2011, 00:54
:confused: The fluff for Daemon Princes is that they're ascended mortals. Both for Chaos Daemons and for CSM.

I'm aware. But, (and this is only personal oppinion) I don't feel that a mortal who has ascended so far into daemonhood as to disperse into the very warp itself, should stll look like a 16 foot tall man in power armor with a couple of horns rammed on, and a lizard tail...


I'm being bitter now :P (And wondering how the heck I'm going to convert my second prince...)

Firmlog
27-03-2011, 01:05
I converted one with a little effort, mostly making a greenstuff beak and a few other small alterations, came out pretty well by my thought.

Wishing
27-03-2011, 01:10
I'm aware. But, (and this is only personal oppinion) I don't feel that a mortal who has ascended so far into daemonhood as to disperse into the very warp itself, should stll look like a 16 foot tall man in power armor with a couple of horns rammed on, and a lizard tail...


All the great(er) daemons basically look like humans with a few tweaks though. I agree that non-human looking character daemons would be an interesting field to explore, but as the style is currently, I'd be very surprised to see a daemon prince that didn't look like a daemonic humanoid with horns and a tail.

Tomalock
27-03-2011, 01:38
I like Daemon Princes old and new (have 7 so far)! The old ones I did a lot of conversions on, mixing spawn kits, green stuff, and the metal kit itself. The new ones I haven't done as much conversion work with yet. You can see the new ones I did for my Tzeentch force in the link in my signature below. Two of my older conversions are at the following link:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241865

Like I said, I like both and love playing with them.

carldooley
27-03-2011, 01:47
if you want wings for your nurgle prince, try the zombie dragon wings from the fantasy range.

kaimarion
27-03-2011, 02:01
Personally I don't really like the kit at all as he just looks far too cartoony, and if I do get another DP in the future I'll be getting one(probably both) of the FW ones.

Nurgling Chieftain
27-03-2011, 02:11
I'm aware. But, (and this is only personal oppinion) I don't feel that a mortal who has ascended so far into daemonhood as to disperse into the very warp itself, should stll look like a 16 foot tall man in power armor with a couple of horns rammed on, and a lizard tail...So, basically your issue is precisely that he does look like he's supposed to by canon. :D

Born Again
27-03-2011, 02:26
This. far too much nerdraging going on.

Not nerdrage, a valid point and a fair request. The plastic DP makes a great generic, or possibly Khornate prince, depending on what combination of parts you choose I have seen them look quite cool and is an improvement over the metal one. But I don't think that having parts designed for each chaos power is unreasonable. The Nurgle DP still looks great - but it's metal, and just one of the powers. Tzeentch and Slaanesh, forget about it. To me the number 1 failing of the DP kit is not the "cartoony" aspect people keep talking about, but the fact it doesn't include any god-specific parts. Rather than 3 generic heads, a head for each god, and then just one other part that could help identify it wouldn't have been a bad idea or, I think, too hard to work in to the kit.

Locephax
27-03-2011, 03:15
Well, a staff member at my local GW is working on a -very- nice looking Fulgrim conversion (so basically a Slaanesh Prince on steroids), using the tail of a trygon, the body and weaponless hands of the plastic DP kit, as well as the bat wings with the membranes removed - it reminds me of Kerrigan from Starcraft - and the helmeted head of a defiler. Add in a sprinkling of Slaanesh icons from daemonettes and other kits, and some greenstuff work, and you have a sweeeet Daemon Prince of Slaanesh.

Just a suggestion.

herostoaces
27-03-2011, 03:49
I thought the model was a great starting point. Half the fun should be converting the model to be more your own. Just the way a model comes from GW for a high ranked model is very bland. Lords, Heros and Specal Weapons should really look different. Plus if your going with lord of change doesn't name really say it all.

MajorWesJanson
27-03-2011, 07:03
I thought the model was a great starting point. Half the fun should be converting the model to be more your own. Just the way a model comes from GW for a high ranked model is very bland. Lords, Heros and Specal Weapons should really look different. Plus if your going with lord of change doesn't name really say it all.

Lord of Change? You ought to proxy another MC for him each game, never using the same one twice in a row :D

herostoaces
27-03-2011, 07:08
Lord of Change? You ought to proxy another MC for him each game, never using the same one twice in a row :D

I like that idea.:D

Mercutius
27-03-2011, 08:08
Here's my Tzeentch Deamon Prince, I think it work with the GW modell. Just kitbash the DP Kit with a Lord of Change:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48769&d=1227924623

Wishing
27-03-2011, 10:45
Not nerdrage, a valid point and a fair request. The plastic DP makes a great generic, or possibly Khornate prince, depending on what combination of parts you choose I have seen them look quite cool and is an improvement over the metal one. But I don't think that having parts designed for each chaos power is unreasonable. The Nurgle DP still looks great - but it's metal, and just one of the powers. Tzeentch and Slaanesh, forget about it. To me the number 1 failing of the DP kit is not the "cartoony" aspect people keep talking about, but the fact it doesn't include any god-specific parts. Rather than 3 generic heads, a head for each god, and then just one other part that could help identify it wouldn't have been a bad idea or, I think, too hard to work in to the kit.

Agreed. Considering that they specifically included god-specific heads, banners and shoulder pads in the newer CSM kit, when the earlier kit was made up of the same parts but without all the extras, it is quite strange that they didn't do the same for the daemon prince kit, since it would have taken so little effort.

Really liking those tzeentch conversions, pricey as they look. :)

xxRavenxx
27-03-2011, 11:51
Clicky (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/004wwc.jpg)

Thats how mine turned out. I still hate the legs, dispite replacing half the model.

Excessus
27-03-2011, 12:04
still like the old metal one better, he has a more dynamic pose, A LOT of more detail and is poseable in many many ways...

Zanzibarthefirst
27-03-2011, 12:08
I'll be honest Raven, when you said you were using swarm heads, I wasn't expecting it to work, the daemon prince is a bit bigger and so I though the head would be a bit small but it looks pretty good

Ultrasmurf
27-03-2011, 12:17
Mercutius that daemon prince is just stunning

xxRavenxx
27-03-2011, 16:02
I'll be honest Raven, when you said you were using swarm heads, I wasn't expecting it to work, the daemon prince is a bit bigger and so I though the head would be a bit small but it looks pretty good

As a disclaimer, the model is only half painted, the photo colour is waay off, (Cameras don't like lurid pink and blue I imagine) AND the angle isnt good. He's got a crooked neck, like a vulture, I just couldnt get the angle to show it.

As for head scale... spawns have MASSIVE heads. Some are too big for the DP model :P

Mercutius
27-03-2011, 16:13
@Ultrasmurf: Thanks a lot! This is one of my most costly builds beside my Land Raider. I have worked more into this one, like salvia in the mouth and more highlight,s and a new base is also in the work. I will post some pictures in my plog when that is done.

Back to this Thread: I think both of the DP models from GW give enough possibillitis to build the DP that one want to have. I like that you can go from the kit in every direction you want, and rebuilding the models for CSM makes a lot of fun, IMO, so I think the kits are OK :-).

@xxRavenxx: I think your DP is at once seen that it pay homage to Tzeentch :-)

Achaylus72
27-03-2011, 16:13
What i have done with one of my Spawn was to use the very large claw arm as a head it looks kool as a Tzeentch Head, i can see this on a Daemon Prince and have a Deamon Prince of Tzeentch.

Fugazi
27-03-2011, 16:24
Mercutius and Raven, I like both your conversions. A lot of creativity. It's almost as if Raven's DP is still in the early stages of ascendancy and Mercutius' DP is a later stage. Raven, would love to see more angles of yours once you finish painting. Off to check out Mercutius' plogs now.

Sandlemad
27-03-2011, 19:42
Just notice that the old metal DP, the obviously ascended chaos marine, is in fact cheaper on the GW online store than his plastic counterpart. Weird...

Born Again
28-03-2011, 09:30
Agreed. Considering that they specifically included god-specific heads, banners and shoulder pads in the newer CSM kit, when the earlier kit was made up of the same parts but without all the extras, it is quite strange that they didn't do the same for the daemon prince kit, since it would have taken so little effort.


Add to that the parts in the Spawn kit that are obviously designed to reflect a specific Chaos allegience... yes, I like the model for a generic prince, but was severely disappointed by the lack of god-specific parts.

xxRavenxx, that's a pretty nice conversion. Well done.

ehlijen
28-03-2011, 09:36
Lord of Change? You ought to proxy another MC for him each game, never using the same one twice in a row :D

You should make it a different model every turn, rather than every game. That way, even opponents you only play once in a while will get to see the joke :)

xxRavenxx
28-03-2011, 21:28
xxRavenxx, that's a pretty nice conversion. Well done.

Sadly, its legs are driving me crazy. I can't stand to own him. (I do have a touch of neuroticism).

He'll be going up for sale shortly, and be replaced with a metal DP or two.

herostoaces
28-03-2011, 21:58
You should make it a different model every turn, rather than every game. That way, even opponents you only play once in a while will get to see the joke :)

Oh that would be fun and funny. Your local GW store would eat it up & talk about it alot.:)

TheLaughingGod
28-03-2011, 22:58
Not nerdrage, a valid point and a fair request. *breath followed by a paragraph of nerdrage*

Just thought I'd clear that up for you. :rolleyes:

Lord Inquisitor
28-03-2011, 23:03
I made an out-of-the-box daemon prince with no conversion, painted to be Slaaneshi. You can see it here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4916814&postcount=293). I don't think the kit is terrible for making non-khorne DPs, they are a little generic but not too bad.

I love the KOS/DP kitbashes in this thread. Good stuff!

xxRavenxx
28-03-2011, 23:21
I did wonder if it would suit slaaaaaanesh. (needs more As...)

Seems it does. I definately think its not good for nurgle or tzeeeeeentch out of the box though.

DuskRaider
29-03-2011, 00:21
I do remember that when the kit came out, GW had a newsletter or whatever showing different conversions people did with it. Someone did a model similar to Fulgrim as a DP using a Trygon's bottom half and the DP top half. Looked really cool.

Born Again
29-03-2011, 04:23
Just thought I'd clear that up for you. :rolleyes:

So thinking it makes sense for GW to put some basic options in to a kit is nerdrage now? Wow, and I thought I was out of touch with the hobby when "beardy" became "competitive".


I made an out-of-the-box daemon prince with no conversion, painted to be Slaaneshi. You can see it here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4916814&postcount=293). I don't think the kit is terrible for making non-khorne DPs, they are a little generic but not too bad.

I love the KOS/DP kitbashes in this thread. Good stuff!

Lord Inquisitor, that is a really nice looking DP, nice painting!

Achaylus72
29-03-2011, 04:31
I made an out-of-the-box daemon prince with no conversion, painted to be Slaaneshi. You can see it here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4916814&postcount=293). I don't think the kit is terrible for making non-khorne DPs, they are a little generic but not too bad.

I love the KOS/DP kitbashes in this thread. Good stuff!

Your Daemy P looks badass.

DuskRaider
29-03-2011, 04:37
Here ya go:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=12500016a