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otakuzoku
28-03-2011, 00:44
I was in firestorm in cardiff talking to the man who runs the place. And he told me the tau blister have been taken off the website. I checked and they were still there. But I am well aware there is the GW website and there is the list of what they supply to independent retailer. Now this usually imply s there is about 6-9 mouths before the new codex is launched. The question is what are we as Tau player likely to get in the next codex. Iím not talking wish listing im talking about trends that have happened in other codex and how they could carry on to the next tau codex, as well as any rumours
from some at least some what credible sources.

I am personality betting on a character that makes xv8 scoring a good 80%. as all other codex have
someone who douse similar.

Arvendragon
28-03-2011, 00:59
First, this belongs in General.
Second, I think XV8's will be redesigned along the lines of the FW ones.

Garanaul the Black
28-03-2011, 01:01
So, not so much a rumor thread than your own personal wish list.


I'd ask a Mod to move this to General before it gets locked.



G


Edit: Ninja'd

Arvendragon
28-03-2011, 01:05
You know, this thread had my hopes up so high. I loved the Tau, were my second army, sold them, moved on, and would totally restart if they gave us new suits.

Reported for move.

otakuzoku
28-03-2011, 01:15
ok if there is a mod reading this please move this to general

otakuzoku
28-03-2011, 01:33
So, not so much a rumor thread than your own personal wish list.


I'd ask a Mod to move this to General before it gets locked.



G


Edit: Ninja'd

just asked but im not so much wish listing if i was i would be saying things like xv9, and plastic orca. im trying to get an idea of what were likely to see based on slimier patters in other codex. and trends that would be carried across to a new tau codex.
Arvendragon pointed out about the xv8 being redone. this is very likely i would say 95% certain because all other codex have been reliced with new models. (and would also fix the long hated weak ankle joints)
are we likely to see plastic kroot hounds or vespid ? ime not a kroot fan but due to the kroot being popular a 10 hound kroot pack would not be an unreasonable prediction. but i would put them as a slim chance and the vespid even more so.

so im asking for anyone who has heard some rumours to please add them.

all i can say for certain is what i was told at fire storm tau blister have been taken off the website, Blister off website usually = 6-9 mouths

wyvirn
28-03-2011, 01:53
...The question...

...I am personality betting on a...

....Pathfinders becoming scoring cause of a named character 50%
Pathfinders becoming troops or hybrid of them and standard firewarriors (may be on carbines) 25%...

most people say a drop in crisis suite base cost

I donít think were ... ...In stead I think we...

reworked war gear I think is 100%

Boiled it down to why most people think that this is a wishlisting thread. The thread was started with the best of intentions, but it needs to be moved because the internet works like a joke with a punch line of "The Aristocrats!".

Romanus
28-03-2011, 02:04
Your source is also incorrect as all Tau blisters are still on the GW EDI, and there haven't been any deletions from the range. Necrons on the other hand, well thats off topic. Since we are all wish listing I don't believe Tau will be out this year. All indications so far have been that Necrons will fill the end of year slot, and there has only been unconfirmed rumours of Tau. (This from my GW sales rep)

Cheers,
Rom

otakuzoku
28-03-2011, 02:23
Your source is also incorrect as all Tau blisters are still on the GW EDI, and there haven't been any deletions from the range. Necrons on the other hand, well thats off topic. Since we are all wish listing I don't believe Tau will be out this year. All indications so far have been that Necrons will fill the end of year slot, and there has only been unconfirmed rumours of Tau. (This from my GW sales rep)

Cheers,
Rom

i had a look at the site and the tau are still there that's. but i do know that GW tend to restrict stuff to only being orders off there website as my shop had an account with them and alot of stuff people order became direct order only. i will see if i can get an up to date list.
P.S i was told about the tau blisters on Thursday night.

Romanus
28-03-2011, 03:03
i had a look at the site and the tau are still there that's. but i do know that GW tend to restrict stuff to only being orders off there website as my shop had an account with them and alot of stuff people order became direct order only. i will see if i can get an up to date list.
P.S i was told about the tau blisters on Thursday night.

Hey man,

I'm an Independent Stockist for GW as well and am going of my April order list, given that I am in Australia, but there is nothing that has been deleted apart from the 'crons. Usually if models are being run down then it is about 6 months out that things start to drop from the order forms. Items on the Webstore tend to be kept up there until there own stocks have been run down as well.

Cheers,
Rom

otakuzoku
28-03-2011, 03:19
thanks. there seem to be a lot of talk floating around about tau and necrons. the necrons have been unavailable for some time (or were the last time i tried to order some but that was about 6 mouths ago. since then we moved away from gw only really keep the account open for the regulars.

rattman
28-03-2011, 05:36
Hey man,

I'm an Independent Stockist for GW as well and am going of my April order list, given that I am in Australia, but there is nothing that has been deleted apart from the 'crons. Usually if models are being run down then it is about 6 months out that things start to drop from the order forms. Items on the Webstore tend to be kept up there until there own stocks have been run down as well.

Cheers,
Rom

+1

but check the run down page, crisis suit commander is on rundown atm, its still available but stocks are limited so its probably going to direct with plain packaging

TheLaughingGod
28-03-2011, 08:04
Here is my Tau prediction. Tau will be delayed until 6th edition. Crisis suits will be the only model NOT redesigned. Everyone will whine about the new Firewarriors.

Tancred II von Quenelles
28-03-2011, 08:19
we got only 3 blisters left
and all metal-plastis hybrid boxes deleted as well

ehlijen
28-03-2011, 09:25
Everyone will whine about the new Firewarriors.

People will whine is not a prediction :P You'll need to specify whether they'll cry cheese! or nerf! to make it a prediction worth making.

Carlosophy
28-03-2011, 10:01
GW will do what they did last time: write a ton of extra fluff, add some new characters, clear up the army list and nick moulds off of Forge World.

Id expect:
HQ:
Puretide (The token '250pts+' character. Hard as Nails, 2nd wave model)
Farsight (reposed, allows XV8 Troops, No Auxiliaries)
Shadowsun (New Model)
Longknife (From Taros, updated rules)
Ra'lai (updated rules, Hazard unit upgrade)
Aun'va (updated rules)
Aun'Shi (resurrected model, updated rules)
Angkor Prok (updated rules, recast model, Kroot unit upgrade)
Vespid Character (new rules, 2nd wave model, Unit upgrade)


XV8 Commander (recast all plastic)
Ethereal (New Models)
Water Caste Envoy/Air Caste Admiral/Earth Caste Builder (like IG Advisors, new models)

ELITES:
XV8 Suits (forgeworld in plastic)
Stealths
Demiurg (rules, no models)
Morallian Deathsworn (mentioned in Apoc, no models)

TROOPS:
Fire Warriors (updated rules, no new models)
Kroot (ditto)
Gun Drones (updated, no new models, Heavy upgrades, Forgeworld recast)
Pathfinders (updated, no new models)
Sniper Drones (updated rules, no new models)
Knarloc Riders (updated rules, no models)


FAST ATTACK:
Piranhas (updated, TX42 upgrade, forgeworld recast
Hazard suits (updated rules, forgeworld recast)
Tetra (updated rules, forgeworld recast)
Vespids (updated rules, new plastic kit)
Hrenian Light Infantry (Mentioned in Apoc, new rules, 2nd wave models)
Remora Stealth Fighters (updated rules, no model)


HEAVY SUPPORT:

XV9 Broadsides (updates rules, forgeworld recast)
Hammerhead (updated rules, new turret options)
Skyray (updates rules)
Barracuda (new rules, no model)
Tiger Shark (new rules, no model)
Orca (new rules, no model)

totgeboren
28-03-2011, 10:25
I can bet that basic firewarriors will be repackaged to include 8 Warriors and 1-2 drones, and will include a new sprue with some new gear, like markerlights for the drones and so on. They will cost the same as the current warriors ofc.

So if you want two full squads of Firewarriors, you need to buy three boxes, instead of two. That is my incredibly low-odds prediction.

Carlosophy
28-03-2011, 10:48
As for rules:
HQ:
Puretide - The greatest Fire Caste commander ever. Not godly overpowered, but buffs the army to the level of Creed and Sliscus rolled together.

Farsight - A buffed profile, maybe WS6 and S7 to make him a match in CC. Counts Crisis as troops but allows no aliens in the army. Fire Warriors can take Furious Charge at cost. No army buffs.

Shadowsun - Some profile buffs and some army buffs together with some sort of experimental Fusion weapon upgrade, like S10 AP1 Melta or S8 AP1 Assault 2 Blast.

Longknife - The defensive HQ. Some buffs and a brick-wall suit (2+, 3++, FnP)

Ra'lai - Relegated from Shas'o to experimetal equipment tester. Hazard unit upgrade with weapon options.

Aun'va - Massive area buffs to represent inspiration (Tau within 12" +1BS, Stubborn?) No death penalties

Aun'Shi - Close Combat Aun. Same role as before.
Angkor Prok - Shaper upgrade, grants Furious Charge to Kroot within 6"
Vespid Character - Strain Leader upgrade, grants FnP to Vespids

XV8 Commander - Clearer options and more toys to play with
Ethereal - +1BS to accompanied unit, Stubborn within 6", no death penalty.
Water Caste Envoy - Force 1 enemy reserve re-roll per turn
Earth Caste Builder - Fix broken vehicles
Air Caste Pilot - off table Seeker Missile strike once per turn

ELITES:
XV8 Suits - Clearer options, points break. Standardisation (25pts each, comes with BC, MP and TA. Weapons and support may be upgraded)

Stealths - Unit-wide Fusion availability, lower cost

Demiurg - Defensive assault unit. Good for castleing up to protect Fire Warriors on objectives *synergy*

Morallian Deathsworn - Fearless assault unit, good tarpit

TROOPS:
1+ Fire Warriors - Cheaper Price. Pulse Rifle Assault 1, Carbine Assault 2. Their roles are better defined: Covering Fire or close range support. Marker = +1BS passive squad upgrade provided they are stationary.

Kroot - Stealth, MTC as standard, otherwise unchanged. 1pt cheaper or 6+ as standard.

Gun Drones - Cheaper Price, same rules although better with assault 2 carbines. Not Scoring and do not take up FoC slots. May upgrade to Heavy Gun Drones with Burst Cannons.

0-2 Pathfinders - Markers grant twin-linked to all units with shared LOS to one enemy unit per turn.

Sniper Drones - Support unit, 1 per Fire Warrior squad. Not scoring and do not take up FoC slots.

Hrenian Light Infantry - Infiltrating close support squad with GRENADES. Worse than Kroot profile wise.


FAST ATTACK:
Piranhas - Cheaper in points and retained as movement blockers. TX42 upgrade turns them into a viable gunship.

Hazard suits - Cheaper in cost. Anti-assault unit. Not meant for attacking per se, more dissuading enemy assault units to come close to your lines for risk of really powerful, short ranged weaponry. *synergy*

Tetra - Jetbike Pathfinders.

Vespids - Move as Eldar Jetbikes but no turbo boosting, MTC, AP2 guns but still 12" range as they have JSJ.

Knarloc Riders - Kroot Cavalry

Remora Stealth Fighters - Heavy Gun Drones with Stealth fields and Jetbike movement.

HEAVY SUPPORT:

XV9 Broadsides - Clearer options and points break. Comes with standard railguns (see later)

Hammerhead - Carries BC and IC as Standard, Railgun is an upgrade and offers better vehicle sniping than Broadsides (see later) Has an EMP turret weapon for knocking out vehicles (5" Blast)

Skyray - Now the Artillery unit. Its seekers are S9 AP2 and it can upgrade to missiles with S6 AP3 3" Blast Melta or an Anti-Nid Bio-weapon Poisoned 2+ AP4 5" Blast missiles. Only has 6 shots and can carry a mix.

Barracuda - Updated forgeworld rules

Tiger Shark - Updated forgeworld rules, still has the drone rack

Delphinus - A smaller Orca with similar dropship capacity.

Pulse Rifle R30 S5 AP5 Assault 1
Pulse Carbine R18 S5 AP5 Assault 2
Burst Cannon R24 S5 AP5 Assault 3
Ion Cannon R48 S7 AP3 Heavy 5
Hammerhead Railgun R72 S10 AP1 Heavy 1, Rail
Rail = +1 on damage charge (cumulative with AP1....)

Archangelion
28-03-2011, 11:08
So I am correct to gather from this thread that:

1: Necron models have infact already been a deleted stock item from the GW website for some time now? How long exactly?

2: Some Tau models have started to disapear from the GW website.

Is it not possible that both will be released this year? Necrons late summer and Tau before Christmas (like the DE)?

otakuzoku
28-03-2011, 17:30
i hope they look at expanding the far sight enclave beyond just the taking of crisis suites as troops. farsight is good but would probably benefit from eternal warrior if thay keep his stats roughly the same. with the xv8 as troops replacing the 7 man bodyguard squad. some people have said that every army is getting a monstrous creature. so he could step up to the roll. and if there going to nurf is FA and heavy choice. ditch the current method and just allow him 2 of each on the FOC.

the main thing i wonder about is the piranha as most tau players i know don't field them the tactic is always crisis suites, rail guns (hammerhead or broardside) path finders for there marker light . and 6 fire warriors in devilfish for last minute objective grabs. the rest are seldom used. alot of things are not taken in your average 1750 game. same as vespid, gun droan squads, skyray and sniper droan squads.

Carlosophy
28-03-2011, 17:49
i hope they look at expanding the far sight enclave beyond just the taking of crisis suites as troops. farsight is good but would probably benefit from eternal warrior if thay keep his stats roughly the same. with the xv8 as troops replacing the 7 man bodyguard squad. some people have said that every army is getting a monstrous creature. so he could step up to the roll. and if there going to nurf is FA and heavy choice. ditch the current method and just allow him 2 of each on the FOC.

the main thing i wonder about is the piranha as most tau players i know don't field them the tactic is always crisis suites, rail guns (hammerhead or broardside) path finders for there marker light . and 6 fire warriors in devilfish for last minute objective grabs. the rest are seldom used. alot of things are not taken in your average 1750 game. same as vespid, gun droan squads, skyray and sniper droan squads.

Its about making every unit viable though. If Fire Warriors were cheaper or could put out more firepower (see A1 Rifles and A2 Carbs) more people would take them.

Tau are about Synergy.

Examples:
- Demiurg helping a Fire Warrior team hold an objective by taking any charges
- Pathfinders augmenting the firepower of all units with LOS to the same enemy squad. Killing one enemy unit dead then moving on is directly reflected in the rules.
- Sniper Drones being cheaper and taken as an addition for Fire Warrior teams allows your squads to have point AP3 firepower
- Hazard Suits lurking near your gunline dissuades the enemy from assaulting for should he try to get near he will be have about half his men left after one shooting phase from them.
- Aun'va gives an Aura bonus to several squads at once, allowing you to form a close fireline around him.
- Vespids support flanking units and TX42's be getting into range faster

The Marshel
29-03-2011, 01:03
GW will do what they did last time: write a ton of extra fluff, add some new characters, clear up the army list and nick moulds off of Forge World.

Id expect:
HQ:
Puretide (The token '250pts+' character. Hard as Nails, 2nd wave model)
Farsight (reposed, allows XV8 Troops, No Auxiliaries)
Shadowsun (New Model)
Longknife (From Taros, updated rules)
Ra'lai (updated rules, Hazard unit upgrade)
Aun'va (updated rules)
Aun'Shi (resurrected model, updated rules)
Angkor Prok (updated rules, recast model, Kroot unit upgrade)
Vespid Character (new rules, 2nd wave model, Unit upgrade) dont see any point to a vespid hq, they arent really independent and afaik not overly popular. hive queen mc seems more likely in a heavy support slot of something


XV8 Commander (recast all plastic)
Ethereal (New Models)
Water Caste Envoy/Air Caste Admiral/Earth Caste Builder (like IG Advisors, new models)

ELITES:
XV8 Suits (forgeworld in plastic)
Stealths
Demiurg (rules, no models)
Morallian Deathsworn (mentioned in Apoc, no models) i dont really see gw going to the effort of something merely mentioned in apoc when they have plenty of imp armour to use. they sound cool but

TROOPS:
Fire Warriors (updated rules, no new models)
Kroot (ditto)
Gun Drones (updated, no new models, Heavy upgrades, Forgeworld recast)
Pathfinders (updated, no new models)
Sniper Drones (updated rules, no new models)
Knarloc Riders (updated rules, no models) deff if their is a kroot character and would guarantee gw my money, but highly unlikely they'd be in troops, prob fast attack at cav edit: noticed u list them in fast attack when talking bout your views on rules


FAST ATTACK:
Piranhas (updated, TX42 upgrade, forgeworld recast
Hazard suits (updated rules, forgeworld recast)
Tetra (updated rules, forgeworld recast)
Vespids (updated rules, new plastic kit)
Hrenian Light Infantry (Mentioned in Apoc, new rules, 2nd wave models) see Morallian Deathsworn
Remora Stealth Fighters (updated rules, no model) if we see tau before 6th ed, deff, if not, the flyer trend may not take off in 6th ed, in which case prob not seeing this one imo


HEAVY SUPPORT:

XV9 Broadsides (updates rules, forgeworld recast)
Hammerhead (updated rules, new turret options)
Skyray (updates rules)
Barracuda (new rules, no model)
Tiger Shark (new rules, no model) truth be told i think its one or the other, and the bara matches the valk, stormraven and dark eldar flyers for size better then the tiger shark iirc
Orca (new rules, no model)too big for outside apoc imo Edit: noticed while talking about your views on rules that you listed a "mini orca" instead. that could have merit i guess, but i dont see much point in tau working that much harder to get that much closer to the enemy

Excluding characters, i think there are far to many "new to Tau" units here. true, they are all basically cannibalised from imperial armour, but i doubt gw would treat an army to this much new stuff in a single codex update. you've listed 10 units that do not presently exist in the tau codex, along with a huge increase in named characters. its just too big a number.

I've bolded what i would consider less likely, and added a few comments. all based on my own views of current trends in other codex releases and the general viability of the units. no insider info here

edit: persoanlly i'm more a fan of h2 rifles and a2 carbines. also, i think a special +1 damage chart rule on the railgun is excessive. with the existing ap1 bonus they do pretty well when they roll already. the problem with hammerhead rail guns isnt that they dont do the damage, its that its one single shot. improving the chances to destroy upon penetration isn't going to help that much, and imo there should always be a chance to escape a penetrating him with minor damage, representing the odd case wher you pierce the armour but miss anything important. with a 2+ bonus that doesn't exist. with a 2+ damage roll bonus, a penetrating hit from a railgun means you lose a weapon at best.

Corporeal
29-03-2011, 03:07
GW will do what they did last time: write a ton of extra fluff, add some new characters, clear up the army list and nick moulds off of Forge World.

Id expect:
HQ:
Puretide (The token '250pts+' character. Hard as Nails, 2nd wave model)
Farsight (reposed, allows XV8 Troops, No Auxiliaries)
Shadowsun (New Model)
Longknife (From Taros, updated rules)
Ra'lai (updated rules, Hazard unit upgrade)
Aun'va (updated rules)
Aun'Shi (resurrected model, updated rules)
Angkor Prok (updated rules, recast model, Kroot unit upgrade)
Vespid Character (new rules, 2nd wave model, Unit upgrade)


Puretide being playable would be fun, from a fluff perspective. a good fleshing out of his background and where he stands now would be nice as well. Farsight (especially in the new sculpt) would be just great to have. A new shadowsun would be fun aswell. Longknife would be killer. his background is just fun to read and I'd be itching to use him. Ra'lai, meh.. I'm not really sold on him as-is, so i'm not expecting anything special. Same goes for Aun'va and Aun'Shi. Angkor would be pretty fun for a hybrid list. And if they made Vespid actually useful, i'd be faced with a hard decision as to what I want to field more.



TROOPS:
Fire Warriors (updated rules, no new models)
Gun Drones (updated, no new models, Heavy upgrades, Forgeworld recast)
Pathfinders (updated, no new models)
Sniper Drones (updated rules, no new models)

would love to see this. the HGD's are just bucket loads of fun. If you haven't tried em out, you should.



FAST ATTACK:
Piranhas (updated, TX42 upgrade, forgeworld recast
Hazard suits (updated rules, forgeworld recast)
Tetra (updated rules, forgeworld recast)
Vespids (updated rules, new plastic kit)
Remora Stealth Fighters (updated rules, no model)


ummm.. gimme?



HEAVY SUPPORT:

XV9 Broadsides (updates rules, forgeworld recast)
Hammerhead (updated rules, new turret options)
Skyray (updates rules)
Barracuda (new rules, no model)
Tiger Shark (new rules, no model)
Orca (new rules, no model)

always good to have an update with these.

MajorWesJanson
29-03-2011, 04:02
My guesses:

HQ:
Crisis Suit commander
-Puretide
-Farsight
Stealth Suit commander
-Shadowsun
Ethereal
-Aun Va
-Aun Shi
Kroot Master Shaper
-Angkor Prok

Elite:
Crisis Battlesuits (redesigned to look like FW XV-89)
Stealth Suits
Demiurg unit (metal unit)
Knarloc Riders

Troop
Fire Warriors
Kroot Kindred (Kroot hounds, shaper, krootox options)
Gun drone squads (3-9 can't score, upgrade 3 to sniper drones, can add controller model to up their BS or make them scoring)
Pathfinders (lose mandatory fish

Fast Attack
Piranha squadron (can upgrade to tetra if wanted)
Heavy Drone Squadron (arm with paired battle suit weapons)
Vespid
Barracuda

Heavy Support
Broadside suit squad (make larger, bulkier, 60 mm base?)
Hammerhead
Sky Ray
Greater Knarloc

Carlosophy
29-03-2011, 07:44
Excluding characters, i think there are far to many "new to Tau" units here. true, they are all basically cannibalised from imperial armour, but i doubt gw would treat an army to this much new stuff in a single codex update. you've listed 10 units that do not presently exist in the tau codex, along with a huge increase in named characters. its just too big a number.

I've bolded what i would consider less likely, and added a few comments. all based on my own views of current trends in other codex releases and the general viability of the units. no insider info here

edit: persoanlly i'm more a fan of h2 rifles and a2 carbines. also, i think a special +1 damage chart rule on the railgun is excessive. with the existing ap1 bonus they do pretty well when they roll already. the problem with hammerhead rail guns isnt that they dont do the damage, its that its one single shot. improving the chances to destroy upon penetration isn't going to help that much, and imo there should always be a chance to escape a penetrating him with minor damage, representing the odd case wher you pierce the armour but miss anything important. with a 2+ bonus that doesn't exist. with a 2+ damage roll bonus, a penetrating hit from a railgun means you lose a weapon at best.

I dunno, A quick glance at my Codex: Dark Eldar shows they got:

- New Vect
- New Drahzar
- New Rakarth
- Sliscus
- Malys
- New Lelith
- New Decapitator
- Sathonyx
- Court of the Archon
- Haemo Ancient
- New Grotesques
- Wracks
- Harlequins
- Trueborn
- Bloodbrides
- Beasts
- Chronos
- Venom
- Razorwing
- Voidraven

My Tau list doesn't seem excessive by those standards.

TheMav80
29-03-2011, 07:51
I hope Ward writes it, and all the backround goes a little like this:

The Marshel
29-03-2011, 12:03
I dunno, A quick glance at my Codex: Dark Eldar shows they got:

- New Vect
- New Drahzar
- New Rakarth
- Sliscus
- Malys
- New Lelith
- New Decapitator
- Sathonyx
- Court of the Archon
- Haemo Ancient
- New Grotesques
- Wracks
- Harlequins
- Trueborn
- Bloodbrides
- Beasts
- Chronos
- Venom
- Razorwing
- Voidraven

My Tau list doesn't seem excessive by those standards.

i did make exception to characters, and the beast master did already exist, the rules have been modified and a few new options added. call it half a new entry?

so thats 9 and a half non character units in a release that was basically a total redesign of the entire range, which was already reasonably limited.

Also, harlequins while new to dark eldar, aren't new to main stream 40k. in a similar vein, blood brides and trueborn are simply veteran troops. I'm not meaning to discount them as new to the codex, just that its not exactly an all new unit free of the usual forge world permission nonsense.

I dont think its really all that comparable of an example considering the scale of the dark eldar release. Tau have been far better supported then dark eldar prior to this release and already have a wide variety of established units and models. the rather large forge world pool of units to be canibalised by gw for codex tau isn't a well i think the codex writers would be that keen on draining to quickly.

Imperial guard make a decent counter point though.
pysker battle squads
penal legions were new weren't they?
3 additional artillery
was it 7 new russ tanks?
valk, venddetta etc

Cheeslord
29-03-2011, 12:23
Well, I can't resist a few guesses:

From GW point of view they want to sell more miniatures, so some likely things in the new codex:

There will be a new vehicle. It will be better than the old ones or the old ones will get their powers reduced. Maybe they will get a flyer or something with approximate flying rules (the Tau seem to be a kind of Airborne army).

There will be a number of new Special Characters that are really good. At least one kroot, one vespid, one squat (if rumours are true), one ethereal (and a reworking of the pants one / rule that makes you lose so hes less pants) and a couple of fire warriors. They will give army wide benefits like making other units into troops (very popular these days) and various rerolls.

Maybe there will be a renegade human commander / renegade human units, just to add to the feel of the Tau as being more of a Tau-led confederation of races (also relatively cheap to make the models using IG as a base with a few unique bits to make them Tau).

Battlesuit FOC choices will be radically reworked to allow (maybe mandate) the fielding of much larger battlesuit squads (5-10 perhaps?) forcing everyone to buy more suits (they will also be available as troops choices fairly easily). Also weapon choices will be reworked (probably with less flexible options as currently codices don't favour "choose from the lists" but like to put all possible combinations in the back of the codex in the unit entry). This will invalidate many existing squad choices forcing conversions (but most people will not have the necescary weapon parts, hence buying more models is easier). This happened with the Tyranids.

There will probably be an all new battlesuit variant, though I don't know what it will be. Perhaps an ultra-fast attack one that can make a Jetbike move (if you want to follow the battlesuit/anime theme maybe it can trandsform into a plane!), or perhaps an extra large one that is an MC or walker.

Mark.

Carlosophy
29-03-2011, 17:50
i did make exception to characters, and the beast master did already exist, the rules have been modified and a few new options added. call it half a new entry?

so thats 9 and a half non character units in a release that was basically a total redesign of the entire range, which was already reasonably limited.

Also, harlequins while new to dark eldar, aren't new to main stream 40k. in a similar vein, blood brides and trueborn are simply veteran troops. I'm not meaning to discount them as new to the codex, just that its not exactly an all new unit free of the usual forge world permission nonsense.

I dont think its really all that comparable of an example considering the scale of the dark eldar release. Tau have been far better supported then dark eldar prior to this release and already have a wide variety of established units and models. the rather large forge world pool of units to be canibalised by gw for codex tau isn't a well i think the codex writers would be that keen on draining to quickly.

Imperial guard make a decent counter point though.
pysker battle squads
penal legions were new weren't they?
3 additional artillery
was it 7 new russ tanks?
valk, venddetta etc

GW have been throwing out new codices with units without models (or drawings in some cases: Chronos?) and having a larger amount of unit selection available. My reasoning here is all the current 5th edition codices are being prepped for long-term engagement. I doubt we will see another BA, SW or DE codex this side of 2015 for example.

Thus I could easily see GW taking everything from Forgeworld. This not only saves them a job in terms of rules and model design, but enables them to put in a lot more choice for minimum effort. Forgeworld will only release newer Tau stuff after that anyway.

Putting out rules and fluff for 2-3 new auxilaries is a good way to expand the army but keep some things back for future waves or give players modelling opportunities.

Raibaru
29-03-2011, 20:38
I'd like to see a support platform like weapon for Tau Firewarriors personally. A quasi-broadside that's piloted by a fire warrior for example that has a few weapon options.

I'd also like to see more suits. An all suit army that was actually effective would be amazing. It's what I wanted out of them originally, but you can't do it well and it certainly doesn't work.

A Tau unit that can fill the assault or countercharge role would also be something I'd like. I personally don't like the idea of Kroot, I like Vespids even less, and Squats and Humans rumored on top of them now? Even if it's something basic like you could give suits wargear to deal 3 D6 S4 attacks in close combat on any turn they're charged, or a turn after they assault. Think anti-personel grenades that launch in the air and rain down highly damaging, but no AP, attacks on people around them.

A Farsight retinue of melee suits would also ben ice.

owen matthew
29-03-2011, 20:47
There will be a number of new Special Characters that are really good. At least one kroot, one vespid, one squat (if rumours are true), one ethereal (and a reworking of the pants one / rule that makes you lose so hes less pants) and a couple of fire warriors. They will give army wide benefits like making other units into troops (very popular these days) and various rerolls.


I am hoping, beyond hope, for La Kais! He could be a bitchin FW upgrade, or veteren FW. Or even, gasp, a low level comander!

I would really like to see a new race, but also the simple adition of humans. Again, GW, a perfect way to incororate fluff and sell some more of your plastic IG. They droped the ball last time around, and the rules were already written in CA!

megatrons2nd
29-03-2011, 21:43
I would really like to see a new race, but also the simple adition of humans. Again, GW, a perfect way to incororate fluff and sell some more of your plastic IG. They droped the ball last time around, and the rules were already written in CA!


With the addition of the Harlequins in the Dark Eldar codex I could see this happening for the Tau.

chamelion 6
29-03-2011, 22:15
FWIW... The US site shows the Devilfish is no longer available.

otakuzoku
30-03-2011, 00:33
ive always thought my self that we would instead of a points drop on units get more bang for our buck. eg xv8 getting the black sun filter and the multi tracker ability in the standard base cost.

i hope we get wargear that levels the playing field by interfering with opponents tactics. eg stop them deep striking with in 24 inch, of equipped units.

Carlosophy
30-03-2011, 07:49
I'd like to see a support platform like weapon for Tau Firewarriors personally. A quasi-broadside that's piloted by a fire warrior for example that has a few weapon options.

I'd also like to see more suits. An all suit army that was actually effective would be amazing. It's what I wanted out of them originally, but you can't do it well and it certainly doesn't work.

A Tau unit that can fill the assault or countercharge role would also be something I'd like. I personally don't like the idea of Kroot, I like Vespids even less, and Squats and Humans rumored on top of them now? Even if it's something basic like you could give suits wargear to deal 3 D6 S4 attacks in close combat on any turn they're charged, or a turn after they assault. Think anti-personel grenades that launch in the air and rain down highly damaging, but no AP, attacks on people around them.

A Farsight retinue of melee suits would also ben ice.

If Fire Warriors get some sort of fire support it will be from drones and an expanded Skyray. Fire Warriors are meant to represent a more modern warfare aesthetic, instead of carrying man-portable heavy weapons they rely on air support to take out big things. Think the 'Bring the rain' Sequence vs Skorponok in the 1st Transformers film. This is how Fire Warriors would handle large war machines.

I fully expect Sniper Drones to be a non-troops choice to back up fire warriors in the field.

otakuzoku
31-03-2011, 01:56
if we get a named character that gives us xv8 as troops, i hope we get xv9 as well, that way i can add broardsides and have an entire crisis suite army. apocalypse games would awesome to i could use counts as rules and use a deamon prince with the lash and style it after gundam epyon. :evilgrin:

Charistoph
31-03-2011, 04:35
If Fire Warriors get some sort of fire support it will be from drones and an expanded Skyray. Fire Warriors are meant to represent a more modern warfare aesthetic, instead of carrying man-portable heavy weapons they rely on air support to take out big things. Think the 'Bring the rain' Sequence vs Skorponok in the 1st Transformers film. This is how Fire Warriors would handle large war machines.

I fully expect Sniper Drones to be a non-troops choice to back up fire warriors in the field.

Scary thought, but what if we incorporated a page from either IG or Blood Angels?

Buy one Fire Warrior squad and that provides the ability to purchase a small Pathfinder team (2-4) and/or a Heavy Gun Drone Team (similar to SDTs now, just different options available). Neither would be scoring, but otherwise independent units. They could even be purchased in the Fire Warrior's entry for convenience and to ensure they are "slotless".

BillyBones
03-04-2011, 21:55
Scary thought, but what if we incorporated a page from either IG or Blood Angels?

Buy one Fire Warrior squad and that provides the ability to purchase a small Pathfinder team (2-4) and/or a Heavy Gun Drone Team (similar to SDTs now, just different options available). Neither would be scoring, but otherwise independent units. They could even be purchased in the Fire Warrior's entry for convenience and to ensure they are "slotless".

I like that Idea a lot, but what about Kill points? Should they be one separable unit like marines/IG or just completely separated and add on units wouldn't give any KP?

Charistoph
03-04-2011, 22:05
I like that Idea a lot, but what about Kill points? Should they be one separable unit like marines/IG or just completely separated and add on units wouldn't give any KP?

I'd almost say they would have to give KP if they were not fully integrated into the Fire Warrior squad. As much as I would like it otherwise, it is the best balance for the job, especially since one is such an excellent force mulitplier, and the other a nasty force to begin with. It also provides a question to include them or not, just like including Heavy Weapon Squads into your IG Platoon has to be weighed.

Carlosophy
04-04-2011, 15:33
XV8 Crisis Team................25pts per model

WS/BS/S/T/I/A/Ld/Sv
2/3/5/4/2/2/9/3+

Composition: 1-5 Shas'ui

Unit Type: Jump Infantry (Jet Pack)

Special Rules:
- Relentless
- Acute Senses
- Deep Strike
- Ta'lissera

Wargear:
- XV8 Crisis Suit
- Burst Cannon
- Missile Pod
- Multitracker

Options:
Any model may replace their Burst Cannon and/or Missile Pod for:
- Plasma Rifle +10pts
- Fusion Blaster +8pts
- Flamer FREE
- Cyclic Ion Blaster +12pts
- Airburster +12pts

Any Model may replace both their Burst Cannon and Missile Pod for:
- Twin-linked Plasma Rifles +12pts
- Twin-linked Fusion Blaster +10pts
- Twin-linked Burst Cannon FREE
- Twin-linked Missile Pod +5pts
- Smart Missile System +10pts
- Twin-linked Rail Rifles +10pts

Any model may replace its Multitracker with:
- Target Lock FREE
- Targetting Array +5pts

The entire squad may be armed with:
- Shield Generators +10pts per model
- Retro Thrusters +5pts per model
- Iridium Plating +5pts per model
- Stimulant Injectors +3pts per model
- Blacksun Filters +1pts per model
- Drone Controllers FREE

Character Options:
One Shas'ui may be upgraded to:
- Shas'vre 5pts

The Shas'vre may take:
- Ejection System +5pts
- Failsafe Detonator +5pts

Wolf Lord Balrog
04-04-2011, 16:03
Any Model may replace both their Burst Cannon and Missile Pod for:
- Twin-linked Plasma Rifles +12pts
- Twin-linked Fusion Blaster +10pts
- Twin-linked Burst Cannon FREE
- Twin-linked Missile Pod +5pts
- Smart Missile System +10pts
- Twin-linked Rail Rifles +10pts

Why have these options when in almost all cases 2 weapon systems are better? Just use the part of the entry right before this to allow purchasing of two of the same weapon.



Any model may replace its Multitracker with:
- Target Lock FREE
- Targetting Array +5pts

Anything that requires giving up the Multitracker would have to be a powerful option indeed, and neither of these qualify. Especially since the current consensus is that battlesuits should get BS4 standard anyway.




The entire squad may be armed with:
- Shield Generators +10pts per model
- Retro Thrusters +5pts per model
- Iridium Plating +5pts per model
- Stimulant Injectors +3pts per model
- Blacksun Filters +1pts per model
- Drone Controllers FREE


If you are going to allow these as an option in addition to a Multitracker and two guns, then the points cost should probably be higher.



Character Options:
One Shas'ui may be upgraded to:
- Shas'vre 5pts

The Shas'vre may take:
- Ejection System +5pts
- Failsafe Detonator +5pts

Oh Aun no, not the Failsafe Detonator again. Near-universally reviled as one of the most un-Tau pieces of wargear in the codex. Tau don't do suicide bombers. Maybe if you put it on a drone, that would make much more sense.

Also, something to make them harder to kill would be nice, like switching the Strength and Toughness values. Though Shield Generators available in addition to normal equipment as you have it above might be a good way to address that too. Just maybe 15 points per model rather than 10.

Charistoph
04-04-2011, 21:39
Hmm, probably better to integrate the Multitracker into the Crisis Suit wargear rules along with their Jet Packs and Acute Senses.

Here would be a crazy queation, since most people buy Sky Rays for Hammerhead and Devilfish duty, what changes do you think they'll make to encourage buying the specific Hammerhead model?

Perfect Organism
04-04-2011, 22:43
I suspect that there is going to be a larger battlesuit variant in the new codex. GW have made 3 Dreadnaught kits recently and the Dreadknight, which suggests sales of big mecha-things are fairly good and I've been told that the battlesuits were always the thing which got kids interested in Tau. Maybe something like the Forge World hazard suit. Probably in the elite slot, since it's fairly scareley populated at the moment.

I wouldn't be terribly suprised if they concentrated on battlesuits and didn't do any new infantry plastic kits. If they do more infantry than battlesuit kits, then I will be startled.

It's a minor detail, but I'm expecting units sizes to be in multiples of five, like new tyranids. 5-15 Fire Warriors, 5-10 Pathfinders, 1-5 crisis suits and so on.

I hope that we see a flexible alien ally unit, with options for nicassar, tarellians and so on. With a bit of luck, the statlines might allow considerable leeway for 'counts as' forces as well.

I'd really like to see Knarloc Riders and a Great Knarloc in the book. Especially if they actually gave them decent rules: rending on the riders and monstrous creature for the great knarloc. I think the odds of us getting this go up a lot if Phil Kelly is writing it. Also, it would be cool if Knarloc riders could take Kroot hounds.

Sniper drone teams seem better suited to upgrading other units than operating on their own. Maybe lump them in with pathfinders, or even with the alien allies (I'm kind of seeing the alien ally unit as a fairly static, shooty one to contrast with kroot and vespid - maybe it would be a better place to put the krootox as well).

Since the skyray box includes all the parts for a hammerhead, they might just repackage it and drop the hammerhead box, saving on shelf space. Or they could drastically buff the skyray's rules and charge a bit extra for it.

One thing I'm dreading is that someone gets it into their head that the best way to deal with people moaning about there being too many mechanised lists in the game is to give Tau even more anti-tank, then 'balance' this by making them rubbish at anything except killing tanks (pretty much the situation now, but amplified). At which point it becomes ridiculously easy to tailor a list for anti-tau and as soon as vehicles decline in popularity again, the entire army will become rubbish.

Wolf Lord Balrog
04-04-2011, 22:45
Hmm, probably better to integrate the Multitracker into the Crisis Suit wargear rules along with their Jet Packs and Acute Senses.

Here would be a crazy queation, since most people buy Sky Rays for Hammerhead and Devilfish duty, what changes do you think they'll make to encourage buying that specific model?

I don't think taking away the limited ammo is out of the question. Just say the Skyray carries a large magazine of missiles and rarely runs out in a single battle. *boom* Markerlights just became alot more useful :)

Charistoph
05-04-2011, 05:46
I suspect that there is going to be a larger battlesuit variant in the new codex. GW have made 3 Dreadnaught kits recently and the Dreadknight, which suggests sales of big mecha-things are fairly good and I've been told that the battlesuits were always the thing which got kids interested in Tau. Maybe something like the Forge World hazard suit. Probably in the elite slot, since it's fairly scareley populated at the moment.

Finally, we can start being compared to Gundams properly now! Oh, wait, crap!


I wouldn't be terribly suprised if they concentrated on battlesuits and didn't do any new infantry plastic kits. If they do more infantry than battlesuit kits, then I will be startled.

Fire Warriors may change, but if they do it's so they can sell 8 boots for the price of the current 12, and they can all carry Carbines now, instead of just a few. Kroot may be reworked for similar reasons.


It's a minor detail, but I'm expecting units sizes to be in multiples of five, like new tyranids. 5-15 Fire Warriors, 5-10 Pathfinders, 1-5 crisis suits and so on.

Ug, no, keep the Tau on Octets instead of Decimals. That having been said, being able to field Crisis, Broadsides, and Hazards in groups of 4 and Stealths in groups of 8 would be nice.


I hope that we see a flexible alien ally unit, with options for nicassar, tarellians and so on. With a bit of luck, the statlines might allow considerable leeway for 'counts as' forces as well.

I'd really like to see Knarloc Riders and a Great Knarloc in the book. Especially if they actually gave them decent rules: rending on the riders and monstrous creature for the great knarloc. I think the odds of us getting this go up a lot if Phil Kelly is writing it. Also, it would be cool if Knarloc riders could take Kroot hounds.

Yes, PLEASE!


Sniper drone teams seem better suited to upgrading other units than operating on their own. Maybe lump them in with pathfinders, or even with the alien allies (I'm kind of seeing the alien ally unit as a fairly static, shooty one to contrast with kroot and vespid - maybe it would be a better place to put the krootox as well).

Another thought is to either integrate them into Fire Warrior squads or have them not take up a slot, but be available per Fire Warrior squad purchased. Either way, they'll be taken far more if they are removed from the Heavy Support slot.


Since the skyray box includes all the parts for a hammerhead, they might just repackage it and drop the hammerhead box, saving on shelf space. Or they could drastically buff the skyray's rules and charge a bit extra for it.

They probably will charge more for it, but one can hope so. Or they'll raise the point cost for it, leave it as is, and buff the Hammerhead. Or have the MC/Walker suit be rediculouly underpriced compared to the 'Head, Ray, or Broadsides.


One thing I'm dreading is that someone gets it into their head that the best way to deal with people moaning about there being too many mechanised lists in the game is to give Tau even more anti-tank, then 'balance' this by making them rubbish at anything except killing tanks (pretty much the situation now, but amplified). At which point it becomes ridiculously easy to tailor a list for anti-tau and as soon as vehicles decline in popularity again, the entire army will become rubbish.

*shudder* Good point.


I don't think taking away the limited ammo is out of the question. Just say the Skyray carries a large magazine of missiles and rarely runs out in a single battle. *boom* Markerlights just became alot more useful :)

Sorry, I meant what changes would the Hammerhead receive so they would sell more of them. I'm almost scared that the Sky Ray won't change because it sells so much better.

Carlosophy
05-04-2011, 07:53
Why have these options when in almost all cases 2 weapon systems are better? Just use the part of the entry right before this to allow purchasing of two of the same weapon.

Anything that requires giving up the Multitracker would have to be a powerful option indeed, and neither of these qualify. Especially since the current consensus is that battlesuits should get BS4 standard anyway.

If you are going to allow these as an option in addition to a Multitracker and two guns, then the points cost should probably be higher.

Oh Aun no, not the Failsafe Detonator again. Near-universally reviled as one of the most un-Tau pieces of wargear in the codex. Tau don't do suicide bombers. Maybe if you put it on a drone, that would make much more sense.

Also, something to make them harder to kill would be nice, like switching the Strength and Toughness values. Though Shield Generators available in addition to normal equipment as you have it above might be a good way to address that too. Just maybe 15 points per model rather than 10.

1. In all cases Twin-Linked > BS4. BS4 has odds of 2/3 of hitting. Twin-linked has odds of 1/2+1/2. Thats mathematically better. And no-one takes twin-linked due to cost and limited Crisis numbers so y increasing the amount of suits and lowering the costs you can field up to 15 suits in Elites, not counting retinues or Troops access. 15 Twin-linked Plasma Rifles > 9 Fireknives :)

2. Giving up the multitracker is meant for twin-linked suits. Target Locks or Targetting Arrays are much more useful for Twin-linked suits than a multitracker.

3. I think squad-wide upgrades are fine as cheap because it is piling on the points that makes them go up in cost. Thrifty players just after Hit and Run or 4++ can save points for more troops.

4. LOVE the idea of switching S and T. Maybe an 'Power Cell Recoupler' option at 5pts each to do this?

Wolf Lord Balrog
06-04-2011, 04:03
1. In all cases Twin-Linked > BS4. BS4 has odds of 2/3 of hitting. Twin-linked has odds of 1/2+1/2. Thats mathematically better. And no-one takes twin-linked due to cost and limited Crisis numbers so y increasing the amount of suits and lowering the costs you can field up to 15 suits in Elites, not counting retinues or Troops access. 15 Twin-linked Plasma Rifles > 9 Fireknives :)

2. Giving up the multitracker is meant for twin-linked suits. Target Locks or Targetting Arrays are much more useful for Twin-linked suits than a multitracker.


I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I meant get rid of twin-linking altogether, instead allowing Crisis suits to carry 2 of the same weapon. 2x Plasma Rifles@BS4 > 1x T-L Plasma Rifles@BS3 :) Although this would require a point increase for the weapon options.



3. I think squad-wide upgrades are fine as cheap because it is piling on the points that makes them go up in cost. Thrifty players just after Hit and Run or 4++ can save points for more troops.

Ah, I see. Might work then.



4. LOVE the idea of switching S and T. Maybe an 'Power Cell Recoupler' option at 5pts each to do this?

I mean just as standard, not as an additional option.

Darkstar2586
10-04-2011, 10:36
From what they have over on BOLS it does indeed seem like tau are on the board. Maybe next dex after crons, so prob Sept time?

The rumours about HQ unlocking different troop choices...I.e there are no troop choices till you take a HQ for it, sound quite intriguing.

Loving the idea of an all suit force :)

Also there was something on there that said each suit came with all the weapons on, and you selected which to use per turn and came in at landspeeder + additional hb cost

Wrath
10-04-2011, 11:10
From what they have over on BOLS it does indeed seem like tau are on the board. ....


Those rumors are from this board and slightly inaccurate, or I should say incomplete.

SnakeWind
10-04-2011, 12:05
This is just a guess but with different Kroot entries maybe it could be possible to field a completely Kroot army. Also because they are not very keen to give the Kroot their own codex.

Trasvi
10-04-2011, 14:22
Being realistic about what kits may get re-cut:
New Crisis suits, and therefore Commander and Broadside are practically given.

Kroot could quite possibly get a combined Kroot / Hound / Krootox frame.
Firewarriors could get a combined FW/Pathfinder frame.
Vespids, Shadowsun, Sniper drones, Piranhas, Hammerhead/Devilfish i really dont see getting redone.
As for the brand new kit: quite possibly a brand new auxiliary unit (Demiurg, as said above) and a flyer; the flyer I think would be either the Barracuda, or a new unit very similar to the Valkyrie in design and game function (dual use as transport and gunship).
If recent codices are anything to go by, we will also be getting some units without models. I can see this for at least one auxiliary, and possibly many of the models offered by forgeworld.

The only speculation I can offer for rules is what we have seen from other codices: core troops become cheaper, get defensive grenades and sergeant included. We can probably see increased power to some of our ranged weapons (now that many other armies have S10 weapons), increased BS on elite troops, and characters/HQ choices which allow changes to the FOC.

All of that is common sense tho, I dont have any real leaks or rumors.

megatrons2nd
10-04-2011, 16:10
The only speculation I can offer for rules is what we have seen from other codices: core troops become cheaper, get defensive grenades and sergeant included. We can probably see increased power to some of our ranged weapons (now that many other armies have S10 weapons), increased BS on elite troops, and characters/HQ choices which allow changes to the FOC.


At least 1 of the armies did not get the free sergeant, the Dark Eldar. I don't know for most the other armies, but it seems that the Imperial armies are the only ones who get that bonus.

BillyBones
11-04-2011, 21:24
I would say, that for DE not having a sarge is quite fitting, because they don't operate as a standard army. And other thing for them is that they can buy multiple HQ in one slot, which really makes up this disadvantage. On the other hand, Tau share the basic organization pattern with IG.