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Lennysfury
28-03-2011, 03:43
So I got my grubby paws on the new dex and me and some friends played a game. It was 2v2. We did 2000 Pts per player. Me and another friend with GKs were on a team against SM and BA. Won't go into a lot of details but will give a few. First off the vindy assassin is ruthless....took out 2 land raiders and a few seargents. Orbital strike really kinda sucks as it always scatters. I shot it 3 times and never hit anything. Rad and psytoke grenades are also a game breaker. Also they had mephy and a regular librarian so had good defense which is good because the amount of powers GK have is amazing...and if you get them all off it's going to be ugly for your opponent. In the end they had 1 librarian and we had about 2k worth of stuff still there.

If you have any questions ask away I will try to answer them quickly.

Stinkfoot
28-03-2011, 03:46
General composition of the armies? How much did you spam the psytoke grenades? Did anybody actually SHOOT at the assassin?

shadowhawk2008
28-03-2011, 05:20
Wait, so you managed to take out about 1900 points of the opposing team's army took almost zero casualties? :wtf:

PolishSausage
28-03-2011, 06:20
they did 2k per player not per side

shadowhawk2008
28-03-2011, 07:48
Not as terrible for the other team as I first thought then but it still pretty bad.

Lennysfury
28-03-2011, 14:15
Ok Here are the lists. You can kinda disregard the first paragraph, I am coping and pasting this from another site I posted and my phone won't let me delete that part.

I didn't take purifiers but both me and my teammate had a squad of purgaters and they really didn't do much due to the shorter range. As for dreadnought spam I took a ven dread and a normal dread, both had psybolt ammo. The regular one had an assault cannon and autocannon and then ven had an assault cannon. Between those 2 dreads I blew up a stormraven, a furioso dread and a death company dread. Str 7 rending shots worked well and str 8 auto did wonders also. I will post my exact list shortly and also my teammates and opponents.

Ok here are the list.

Mine

Grandmaster-halberd, 3 servo skulls, blind gernades, digital weapons, rad grenades MC halberd, psytoke grenades.

Librarian- level 3, demon hammer, digital weapons, MC hammer, 3 powers

Ven dread- assault cannon, psyammo

Strike squad-7- 1 cannon, ammo, justicare with mc hammer

Strike squad-8- same as above

Stormraven- hurricane bolters, ammo

Dread- assault cannon, auto cannon, ammo

Dreadknight- heavy psycannon, Gatling psilencer, greatsword

Purgation squad-7- 4 cannons, 2 halberds, 1 mc hammer

2 rhinos

Allies team

Grandmaster- same as mine

Librarian- same as mine

Paladin squad- all different weapons for wound alloc

Same strike squads as mine but only 7 in each squad

Land raider crusader- multi melta, ammo

Same purgation squad as mine

Vindacare

2 rhinos


Opponents list, I'm going to just list them together so it will be 4000 points with 2 FOC.

Librarian with stormshield

Mephston

Chaplain

3 land raiders, 1 was crusader

2 thunderhammer termi squads

Stormraven

9 death company with the uber special character dude.

Thunderfire cannon

Dev squad with 4 missiles

3 dreads, 1 furiso, 1 deathcompany, 1 librarian

1 sterngaurd squad with 2 lascannons

2 tactical squads

I think that's it but I might be mistaken.

@stinkfoot-as you can see we didn't really spam the grenades as only 2 models have them but they did wonders. And no they didn't shoot at the assassin til the 3rd turn mainly because they didn't know how mean he was and by the time they did most of the things on that side of the board were dead.

@shadowhawk- yes it was pretty bad for them, the main problem was the fact that neither of them has seen the dex so didn't know what would be a big threat. And some of there rolling was not great. Like when the dread knight killed the Libby dread. He only did 1 wound and I saved so he could not force sword me. It was a pretty fun game though and even our opponents had fun playing since it was a fresh army. Next time I'm sure they will do better. GK are going to be a tough army but not a overpowered as everyone thinks. Oh and one more thing....never take a Gatling psilencer on the dreadknight....waste of points.

SPYDER68
28-03-2011, 16:38
no wonder.. Your opponets list is terrible.

Not a good indication on what the army does..

Lennysfury
28-03-2011, 17:35
@spyder- interesting...I know the SM army was not that great, but I don't play against BA to much so not sure about that army. Mind putting up a 2k blood angels list that you think screams cheese? Then I can let my friend know so he can do better next time.

Sabe
28-03-2011, 17:57
no wonder.. Your opponets list is terrible.

Not a good indication on what the army does..

True, except that those GK lists are far from optimized as well.

Pushkin
28-03-2011, 18:11
True, except that those GK lists are far from optimized as well.

lol, the codex isn't out til 02/04/11, good to know that an "optimized" list has already been decided on!

Lennysfury
28-03-2011, 18:34
Ya I'm well aware the GK lists were not the best after playing them as I saw a lot I would change. But they did well enough.

Dwane Diblie
28-03-2011, 19:25
Done a little testing with a mate.
Quickest way to loose a wraithlord. Have it fail its wraithsight just as a dredknight is coming in for the charge. Was funny. Shot him to with in a wound before teh assault though.
Death Cult assassins realy scare me now. 12 vs =pts Banshee unit with Exarch. Banshees charge. Kill half of them and then get whiped out by the leftover half. The 6 left over then whent on to whipe out a full scorpion squad.
For giggles we then put them up against Karandras and a full squad of Scorpions and they got whiped while only killing 3 Death Cult Assassins.
But as is usual with Eldar. Nothing can withstand the Scatterlaser barrarge dished out by War Walkers.

Starchild
28-03-2011, 20:31
First off the vindy assassin is ruthless....took out 2 land raiders and a few seargents.:wtf:, how does a sniper rifle destroy a hulking behemoth of adamantium on treads?


Death Cult assassins realy scare me now. 12 vs =pts Banshee unit with Exarch. Banshees charge. Kill half of them and then get whiped out by the leftover half. The 6 left over then whent on to whipe out a full scorpion squad.
For giggles we then put them up against Karandras and a full squad of Scorpions and they got whiped while only killing 3 Death Cult Assassins.
But as is usual with Eldar. Nothing can withstand the Scatterlaser barrarge dished out by War Walkers.Mat Ward may be the reason I quit 40k. So us xenos players can pray to the Games Gods that we'll get our codices updated sometime within the next 3 years, so we *might* be able to compete with Codex Ward Knights... that is, if we're lucky.

Great job, GW, keep it up. You might be losing another faithful fan soon... :eyebrows:

Inquisitor_Eljer
28-03-2011, 20:36
Played 2 test-lists over the weekend (1,000 pts):

List 1 vs. Nids
Crowe

Purifiers x10
- Razorback (Ass-Can)
- 3xPsycannons
- 4xHalberds
- 1xDaemonhammer

Purifiers x10
- Razorback (Ass-Can)
- 3xPsycannons
- 4xHalberds
- 1xDaemonhammer

Psyfleman Dread

Played against Nids and did very well.

Combat squaded the Purifiers into 2 fire-bases and 2 assault squads (into the Razors) at the begining of the game.

Turn 1 most everything shot a 30 strong squad of Termigaunts (i believe)...all dead. Psyfleman put a couple wounds on the Tyrant & Guard.

Turn 2/3 shot, cleansing flamed and assaulted a 30 strong Hormagaunt squad...all dead. Mawloc Deep Strikes onto one of my Razors near Crowe putting a wound on Crowe (poor rolling on my part)...Mawloc attacks Crowe and puts 1 more wound on him bringing him to zero...he performs his Heroic Sacrifice and takes the 6 wound Mawloc with him into hell. The rest was basic clean-up after that to get rid of an assaulty fex, the Tyrant and 2xGuard (the combination of ate 1 of my Purifier assault combat squads).

Turn 4 was pretty much mop-up of his Tyrant, Guard & Fex.

To be fair I had some good rolls, and I think his list could use some tweaquing...more smaller squads and more ranged attacks turn 1 would have helped him considerably, but I know little of list building with Nids so perhaps I'm off-base there.

List 2 vs. SM
Librarian - Quick, MoT, Summoning

Storm Raven - PlasCan

Purifiersx8 - All Falchons in Raven with Librarian

Strike Squad x7 with 1 Psycannon

Strike Squad x5 with 1 Psycannon

Dreadnaught - Ass-Can & DCCW+StormBolter

Turn 1 moving and basic plinking...no real damage. Servo Skulls kept Telion's squad of snipers and another squad of Snipers in his Deployment zone unable to Infiltrate/Scout before the game, and leaving him without LoS. Weathered a little return plinking...no damage.

Turn 2 the StormRaven moved and deployed the Libby (Quicksilver successful), Purifiers & Dread and in shooting it destroyed a Landraider with 6 Hammernators + Chappy who immediately disembarked. Squad assaults (Hammerhand successful + MoT successful...yeah!), so 32 power weapon attacks at I6 & Str 6...kill 3 or 4 on the initial charge...Dread assaults in...kills 2 more...leaving only Chaplain.

Strike Squads plink at Scout/Sniper squad moving up killing 2.

Telion's squad fails to drop the StormRaven, Chappy kills a Purifier, Iron Clad dread assaults in killing 2 or 3 more...now I regret not having a Ward Stave or Daemonhammer in this squad...sigh.

Turn 3/4 Dreads mutually kill each other...Knight of Flame and Libby kill off the Chaplian finally.

Storm Raven reduces Telions squad to Telion & 1 Sniper through plasma cannon & Multi-melta fire.

Strike Squad 1 kills the remains of the other Scout/Sniper squad.

Turn 4/5 mop-up of Telion's squad.

Lost the dread, 7 of 8 Purifiers, and 1 or 2 guys from Strike Squad 1. Got lucky going first and that his Landraider didn't pop the StormRaven moving into position.

I learned that Iron Clad's suck so bring Ward Staves & Daemon Hammers to have something to affect AV 13+ and survive CC power-weapon attacks. Fortitude helped with weathering some of the shaken/stunned plinking results...all in all I got lucky in 2 or 3 key phases which made the game seem more un-even than it really would have been.

Making 1k lists with GK is kinda hard without Henchmen / Inquisitors. :)

ColShaw
28-03-2011, 20:37
:wtf:, how does a sniper rifle destroy a hulking behemoth of adamantium on treads?

Turbo-penetrator, 4d6 armor penetration. :eek:

Inquisitor_Eljer
28-03-2011, 20:44
<snip>... Oh and one more thing....never take a Gatling psilencer on the dreadknight....waste of points.

Not sure there is a point for the Psilencer period yet...need to test this some more...maybe against IG, Orks or Nids the high rate of fire will be nice...would be better if it wasn't heavy.

Inquisitor_Eljer
28-03-2011, 20:44
Turbo-penetrator, 4d6 armor penetration. :eek:

Basic sniper-rifle Str3 +4d6 armor pen right? :)

SgtTaters
28-03-2011, 20:52
Basic sniper-rifle Str3 +4d6 armor pen right? :)

Don't forget rending, every 6 you roll is +d3
so s3+4d6 with a chance of up to +4d3

ap1 so +1 to damage charts too.

Lennysfury
28-03-2011, 20:54
Not sure about the str 3 on snipers as I never use them, we would just roll 4d6 and if 1 turned up as a 6 would add an extra d3 for rending. Average roll on 4d6 is 14 though so pretty good chance to do something and being ap1 is nice also

Vedar
28-03-2011, 20:54
Average roll for turbo penetrator is 17. That pops Land Raider all day and twice on Sunday.

TheConverter15
28-03-2011, 20:59
Turbo Penetrator = OMGWTF!! A bit over powered??

Inquisitor_Eljer
28-03-2011, 21:00
Don't forget rending, every 6 you roll is +d3
so s3+4d6 with a chance of up to +4d3

ap1 so +1 to damage charts too.

Yeah, good points.

Worsle
28-03-2011, 21:14
lol, the codex isn't out til 02/04/11, good to know that an "optimized" list has already been decided on!

There is a difference between having an optimized list and thinking there can only be one. List should be optimized to a goal, not just sticking in the "best" units or wargear because it is the most points efficient or what ever other nonsense people like to talk about.

These grey knights lists are not unoptimized because they don't have the best things in them. No they are unoptimized because they are a patch work of randomly chosen toys with no thought to the overall goal or effectiveness of the list. The other players are doing a similar thing too but that does render the results meaningless to anyone who does not play in the same was as the op.

edit. the turbo penetrator is nice but unless the other player is really lacking your assassin wont last that long no matter how good your cover save is. You also can't plan around him being there as every so often you will just fail the first ID save you have to make and you are left looking rather silly.

dancingcricket
28-03-2011, 21:14
Turn 2/3 shot, cleansing flamed and assaulted a 30 strong Hormagaunt squad...all dead. Mawloc Deep Strikes onto one of my Razors near Crowe putting a wound on Crowe (poor rolling on my part)...Mawloc attacks Crowe and puts 1 wound on him bring him to zero...he performs his Heoric Sacrifice and takes the 6 wound Mawloc with him into hell. The rest was basic clean-up after that to get rid of an assaulty fex, the Tyrant and 2xGuard (the combination of ate 1 of my Purifier assault combat squads).


I have a problem with this. He dies, and takes along an unwounded MC with him? :wtf: So, to protect your expensive MC's, or dreads, or SC's, you have to shoot this guy to kill him, you can't charge him or let him charge you. That's just **.

Inquisitor_Eljer
28-03-2011, 21:50
I have a problem with this. He dies, and takes along an unwounded MC with him? :wtf: So, to protect your expensive MC's, or dreads, or SC's, you have to shoot this guy to kill him, you can't charge him or let him charge you. That's just **.

There are many more psychic powers that are worse in my opinion (JOTWW?) than Heroic Sacrifice which can only be used if my SC dies...1 final parting shot to taking an IC, SC, or MC with me...he could have chosen to attack the Razorback instead of Crowe as well, and we discussed this and he chose to attack Crowe anyway. He wasn't upset about it since I didn't spring it on him...we talked about it all before hand.

He was disappointed in losing his Mawloc, sure, but I think if he had it to do over again he'd have attacked my shooty Dreadnought instead of Crowe & the Razorback.

That one power is hardly 'cheese'. Give it a try, keep an open mind...all in all it was a 150 pt HQ for a 170 pt Heavy Support unit.

Easy E
28-03-2011, 21:57
There are many more psychic powers that are worse in my opinion (JOTWW?) than Heroic Sacrifice which can only be used if my SC dies...1 final parting shot to taking a IC, SC, or MC with me...

Congrats Mr. Ward. Even when your guys loose, you still win.

Inquisitor_Eljer
28-03-2011, 21:58
Congrats Mr. Ward. Even when your guys loose, you still win.

Yeah, and Crowe isn't an IC so he can't join a squad...pretty easy to kill from range or I have to keep running and hiding him from LoS effectively doing nothing with 150 pt HQ. It's not as unbalanced as you might seem to think.

Eta
28-03-2011, 22:00
Congrats Mr. Ward. Even when your guys loose, you still win.

It's more or less the same power as this stasis field thingy from the Space Wolves SC Lukas the Trickster - Ward copy & pasted a bit from Kelly ;).

Lennysfury
28-03-2011, 22:00
Problem with Crowe is he isnt a IC so can not join squads. Just hit him with a few missiles or lascannons.

Inquisitor_Eljer
28-03-2011, 22:05
Problem with Crowe is he isnt a IC so can not join squads. Just hit him with a few missiles or lascannons.

Exactly so. Shoot him, or force me to hide him and I have 150 pts I can't really use to affect the outcome of the battle.

Xabraxis
28-03-2011, 22:19
Exactly so. Shoot him, or force me to hide him and I have 150 pts I can't really use to affect the outcome of the battle.

And therefor tie up in whatever amount of points are necessary to force you to hide a 150 point suicide unit. /golfclap.

Inquisitor_Eljer
28-03-2011, 22:30
And therefor tie up in whatever amount of points are necessary to force you to hide a 150 point suicide unit. /golfclap.

It's all situational and always based on tactical decisions right?

Dwane Diblie
28-03-2011, 22:50
I can not wait to catch someone out trying to activate Heroic Sacrifice after they have already cast Clensing Flame or Hammerhand. The expresion on their face will be priceless.

Stinkfoot
28-03-2011, 22:57
I've always pointedly disliked defense-bypassing game mechanics, and this "Crowe" fellow seems to be the worst of the lot since he doesn't (by the sound of it) even allow a characteristic test. I can see him being used as a suicide bomber against powerful characters in armies without psychic defense. That's a dumb mechanic, and it's stupid fluff-wise for a Special Character.

madden
28-03-2011, 23:01
Yep cruise up to abbadon die and take him with you. Here's a question about that dose it ignore eternal warrior? If yes then it's even more ott.

Xabraxis
28-03-2011, 23:03
Yep cruise up to abbadon die and take him with you. Here's a question about that dose it ignore eternal warrior? If yes then it's even more ott.

Yes. It doesn't cause a wound, it just removes the model from the game.

Inquisitor_Eljer
28-03-2011, 23:49
I can not wait to catch someone out trying to activate Heroic Sacrifice after they have already cast Clensing Flame or Hammerhand. The expresion on their face will be priceless.

Agreed...1 power per turn is in effect.

Inquisitor_Eljer
28-03-2011, 23:51
I've always pointedly disliked defense-bypassing game mechanics, and this "Crowe" fellow seems to be the worst of the lot since he doesn't (by the sound of it) even allow a characteristic test. I can see him being used as a suicide bomber against powerful characters in armies without psychic defense. That's a dumb mechanic, and it's stupid fluff-wise for a Special Character.

The characteristic test is there (some what) in the form of Crowe's WS vs the other model's WS. Basically Crowe has to hit which is statistically dependent on the WS values of both models. Or that's how I see it.

ihavetoomuchminis
29-03-2011, 00:00
It's not an hability reserved to crowe. Every....castellan? Is it called like that in english? well, every castellan has the same hability, and they are IC's. And the problem i see with it is not the overpoweredness (wich there is), but the frustration that it causes to the opponent.."ok, so i killed your character, i've done what i'm supposed to do, succesfully protecting my character/MC/expensive model from all your sucky sucky force weapons, and now, just getting a 3+ roll, you "retire" it from game even after your charachter has attacked yet? and i'm supposed to have fun?"

These are the kind of rules that i don't like at all on the GK army nor every other army. Force weapons that cause ID and ignore armour for every single model, a sniper rifle that can reliably cripple or destroy an AV14 vehicle, messing up my deep striking units, getting a good psychic defense as well as some of the best psychic habilities, nullyfing the habilities i pay for (daemons), getting I6 with your models, wich is better than nearly everyone else I. Grenades that not only make my tactics useless, wich is fine, but making my models stats WORSE, wich is not fine. Point black area of effect habilities (like the grenades itself) that cost a little and can effect big amounts of points of my army (cleansing flame, psychotropic grenades, virus grenades (the -1T ones), sanctuary...) and so on.

It's not that GK are hard to beat. Sure they are, but sure they can be beaten (for some armies it's harder than for others). It's that playing against GK will be FRUSTRATING and BORING to death.

omnivision6
29-03-2011, 00:14
lol, the codex isn't out til 02/04/11, good to know that an "optimized" list has already been decided on!

lol, this. Cant stand the constant "that build is the suckzorrrrzzzzzz!!!1!!1"

Project2501
29-03-2011, 00:29
I love the constant "lulz dex not 4 sayl yet hurf durf" meme from people that still can't grasp the difference between a codex that is not for sale yet, and a codex that has not been released yet.

The codex has been released to games-shops for in-store use.

The codex is not for sale to the general public yet.

Xabraxis
29-03-2011, 00:34
I love the constant "lulz dex not 4 sayl yet hurf durf" meme from people that still can't grasp the difference between a codex that is not for sale yet, and a codex that has not been released yet.

The codex has been released to games-shops for in-store use.

The codex is not for sale to the general public yet.

Agreed. Granted some stores refuse to let you see it without a preorder, however the majority let their players see the book and playtest it. Ignoring those who have the book through nefarious means of course.

The list on Bell of Lost souls that was posted recently with about 40+ models seems pretty decent and about what I expected would come out of it.

Cry of the Wind
29-03-2011, 03:31
lol, this. Cant stand the constant "that build is the suckzorrrrzzzzzz!!!1!!1"

This is a game with finite limits on what you can and can't put in your army. Most people have access to the new Codex and know those limits. Given those limits some choices are always going to be either simply better for the points or have other synergy uses with other choices. Given the limits and goals of the game some armies are going to be clearly better than others on paper. Those list will do better with a skilled player compared to another list from the same finite Codex army list.

The problem is people don't understand that and either get butt hurt when they face an optimized list and start making excuses or people use armies like that outside of a tournament setting against non-like minded individuals. The "proper" army list is not always going to be 100% identical but you can tell just by looking at an army list where points were spent on wargear that won't have much effect on a game or where some units preform the same job but better or cheaper than the one used. I use those "bad" units from time to time but am fully aware of what I am doing and try to maximize their impact.

sidcom
29-03-2011, 04:45
lol, is Mr. Turbo Penetrator compensating for something? :D

Stealin' Genes
29-03-2011, 05:15
Near as I can tell, when my 'nids face GKs, a significant chunk of my battle plan will be "pop transports, shoot the assaulty powerhouses, soften them up, get into CC against shooty units or softened assaulty units, and pray to the dice gods that the psychotroke grenade roll doesn't screw me."

And that's what's annoying. I can cope with most of the GK assault scariness, but every unit with psychotroke grenades really boils down to "there are two options on this table that are really, really bad for Tyranids. Does my opponent roll either of them?" There's a 33% chance that one wargear option goes "sorry, sucks to be you!"

Also a 66% chance that I don't care too much. There's that. I just object to the randomness. I know luck always plays a part in warhammer but having a combat come down to a single die roll (being dropped to I1 or losing all but one attack and being auto-hit are bad enough that the fight's essentially over if they come up) is excessive.

Xabraxis
29-03-2011, 05:44
Near as I can tell, when my 'nids face GKs, a significant chunk of my battle plan will be "pop transports, shoot the assaulty powerhouses, soften them up, get into CC against shooty units or softened assaulty units, and pray to the dice gods that the psychotroke grenade roll doesn't screw me."

And that's what's annoying. I can cope with most of the GK assault scariness, but every unit with psychotroke grenades really boils down to "there are two options on this table that are really, really bad for Tyranids. Does my opponent roll either of them?" There's a 33% chance that one wargear option goes "sorry, sucks to be you!"

Also a 66% chance that I don't care too much. There's that. I just object to the randomness. I know luck always plays a part in warhammer but having a combat come down to a single die roll (being dropped to I1 or losing all but one attack and being auto-hit are bad enough that the fight's essentially over if they come up) is excessive.

My advice is to not use MCs for melee. You won't get a chance to do any damage before you get forcesworded down. This is from experience.

Hicks
29-03-2011, 06:34
It's really depressing seeing all those threads with people who completely slaughter other people armies with GKs now. Has anybody ever managed to win against them yet? They just sound broken as hell and against armies like nids it might just be impossible to lose.

I'm glad I sold mine, I'd rather keep my gamer friends lol.

Monodominant
29-03-2011, 06:53
Yes cause your "friends" will stop playing with you because you had an army that you used to suck and now can actually compete...

sure when your army was a joke you were a good "friend" and they played you... now that after almost a decade you got a new codex its obviously OTT and broken and cheese...

I wonder do you have any friends with SW, IG and BA? Back when the eldar came out did you have any friends with Eldar? In 4rth edition any of your friends had 'Nids full of MCs?

Hicks
29-03-2011, 07:11
They seem to do a bit more than compete, they steamroll the competition in pretty much every battle report I read on here. I don't like the new dex, since we started getting rumours about it (fluff, dreadknights, Special characters, etc), that's what pushed me to sell them in the first place. Them being this good now, just ensures I will never regret selling them. After playing the sucky GKs for so long, it's hard to deal with the fact that they are the top dog now, it kills the fun for me.

And don't worry about my friends, they got to see me play my Steel Legion back when they were terrible and they still play against them now that they are really good. They also faced my nids back when they were good and they will have to face my new Wolves (although they are Loganwing). I was kinda making a joke in my other post.

So all in all that's how I feel, it's just not "my" GKs anymore, they have a totally new face now and after having experienced another extreme makeover with nids, I knew it wasn't worth keeping the knights. But I have to admit I really don't want to face the new GKs, especially if they are played by a WAC player!

sidcom
29-03-2011, 07:40
well, has anyone seen them loose against something? now it looks like your two options against new GK are "humiliating wipe in 3rd round" and "slightly less humiliating defeat at the end of the game" :D

totgeboren
29-03-2011, 08:35
Yes cause your "friends" will stop playing with you because you had an army that you used to suck and now can actually compete...

sure when your army was a joke you were a good "friend" and they played you... now that after almost a decade you got a new codex its obviously OTT and broken and cheese...

I wonder do you have any friends with SW, IG and BA? Back when the eldar came out did you have any friends with Eldar? In 4rth edition any of your friends had 'Nids full of MCs?

I understand why you would think like this, but back during 2:ed, I started a Tyranid army. That army had the exact same issues that the new GK have. Lots of abilities that you can't do anything at all about, and which made facing them both frustrating and boring.
It ended up with my friends rather playing other games, so I sold my Nids. I wasn't having fun, because my friends were not having fun.
Even if they could theoretically win, the game itself was not fun anymore.
I then went back to my Chaos army, and suddenly everyone was having fun again, even though my Bloodthirster was op. You could at least shoot it, or just throw a vortex grenade at it.
Rolling on a table and going "Nope, that unit is gone. Sorry" is not fun at all.

Reading and seeing some battlereports on youtube, I have yet to see an opponent having fun, and it was a loooong time ago I saw that sort of response to a new codex.
Also, the entire point of playing is to have fun. I don't know why anyone would agree to a game if they knew they were not going to have a good time.

Valek
29-03-2011, 09:08
I love the constant "lulz dex not 4 sayl yet hurf durf" meme from people that still can't grasp the difference between a codex that is not for sale yet, and a codex that has not been released yet.

The codex has been released to games-shops for in-store use.

The codex is not for sale to the general public yet.

Ahum, i had mine last friday, so yes its already on sale....

Project2501
29-03-2011, 09:33
Ahum, i had mine last friday, so yes its already on sale....


Availability:* This product is available for pre-order and will be released on the 2nd of April. Part Code:* 60030107002


Unless you're talking about the leaked dex that everyone's had for awhile now, feel free to elaborate less...

Uncletrunx
29-03-2011, 10:08
I understand why you would think like this, but back during 2:ed, I started a Tyranid army. That army had the exact same issues that the new GK have. Lots of abilities that you can't do anything at all about, and which made facing them both frustrating and boring.
It ended up with my friends rather playing other games, so I sold my Nids. I wasn't having fun, because my friends were not having fun.
Even if they could theoretically win, the game itself was not fun anymore.
I then went back to my Chaos army, and suddenly everyone was having fun again, even though my Bloodthirster was op. You could at least shoot it, or just throw a vortex grenade at it.
Rolling on a table and going "Nope, that unit is gone. Sorry" is not fun at all.

Reading and seeing some battlereports on youtube, I have yet to see an opponent having fun, and it was a loooong time ago I saw that sort of response to a new codex.
Also, the entire point of playing is to have fun. I don't know why anyone would agree to a game if they knew they were not going to have a good time.

This sort of thing is why I only tend to play with friends, and why we tend to set up scenario based games; that way, there's some sort of control over the parameters. Overpowered armies can be made weaker with limits and tweaks to victory conditions, while weaker armies can be given an advantage they wouldn't otherwise have. I know it's not ideal to have to do this to get a fun game but since there seems to be an element of "Newest codex is going to win" (unless you're 'nids), it's just more enjoyable for all that way.

It's also good for campaign gaming.

Mind, I've always been a narrative gamer rather than a tournament player.

freddieyu
29-03-2011, 10:15
I read a battle report where the new GK were defeated by sisters of battle. So yes it seems they can be beaten. And I do not think they are the top dog yet. Good maybe, but top dog as in the best? We shall see..

ihavetoomuchminis
29-03-2011, 10:29
It's not an hability reserved to crowe. Every....castellan? Is it called like that in english? well, every castellan has the same hability, and they are IC's. And the problem i see with it is not the overpoweredness (wich there is), but the frustration that it causes to the opponent.."ok, so i killed your character, i've done what i'm supposed to do, succesfully protecting my character/MC/expensive model from all your sucky sucky force weapons, and now, just getting a 3+ roll, you "retire" it from game even after your charachter has attacked yet? and i'm supposed to have fun?"

These are the kind of rules that i don't like at all on the GK army nor every other army. Force weapons that cause ID and ignore armour for every single model, a sniper rifle that can reliably cripple or destroy an AV14 vehicle, messing up my deep striking units, getting a good psychic defense as well as some of the best psychic habilities, nullyfing the habilities i pay for (daemons), getting I6 with your models, wich is better than nearly everyone else I. Grenades that not only make my tactics useless, wich is fine, but making my models stats WORSE, wich is not fine. Point black area of effect habilities (like the grenades itself) that cost a little and can effect big amounts of points of my army (cleansing flame, psychotropic grenades, virus grenades (the -1T ones), sanctuary...) and so on.

It's not that GK are hard to beat. Sure they are, but sure they can be beaten (for some armies it's harder than for others). It's that playing against GK will be FRUSTRATING and BORING to death.

psychotropic grenades fit in the category of "frustrating rules that suck the fun out of the game"

Yes, quoting myself. :D

Woodsman
29-03-2011, 11:38
well, has anyone seen them loose against something? now it looks like your two options against new GK are "humiliating wipe in 3rd round" and "slightly less humiliating defeat at the end of the game" :D

Well a quick gander in the battlerep forum shows they've lost at least 4 times (was it 5?). Could I be bothered I'd chalk up another loss - beat a friends Pally heavy list t'other day for the loss of two wave serpents and a dragon squad.

I think, although its possible to get in games in store, until the dex has been out a few weeks its too early to say. Some lists will have to adjust a bit and as we see what GK can do, target prioritisation will improve and we'll know more of what to avoid/tie down/shoot. Runes of Warding are Awesome btw. :D

Poseidal
29-03-2011, 11:44
Were those losses from competitive lists or just random units thrown together for fun?

You can make a Blood Angels list literally incapable of winning an objective battle or take a Guard list with no way of dealing with armour but it doesn't mean Blood Angels are a bad codex or Guard suffers against armour in general.

orkmiester
29-03-2011, 12:01
hmmm its always the same- people moan about a new codex and then things die down after a while- strange that, the guard codex is in many people's firing line atm due to many folks having grievances about transport rules etc (enough of that, its very large minefield and i am not going to tempt fate ;))

i know this for a fact, when i get my GK's up and running i will lose most of the time, not because i am a bad player or my lists are rubbish (i fact my DE got praised for the way i had chose my army, even if it was a little 'standard' in my opinion- still i had a rare victory when i trashed someones chaos marines...) but because in many ways i am vastly inexperienced compared to the folks i regularly play with :D, still i have plenty of fun though. Although i've had a few times where things were going my way and then slipped from my fingers :mad:.

its all about adapting to the situation, and some folks don't seem to get it, i know for a fact that my mates will have a good read of the dex to make sure they know what they are up against (we have a tourney soon- plus i am generous that way... :evilgrin:).

indeed, the sisters have always been a catch you out army, they always have a trick or two to pull things off (ap1 boltguns anyone...).

I think many players are falling into a 'fear' trap about them, just having a decent game against them with your trusty force you know inside and out is probably the way to go. Then afterwards have a moan about the rules, because half the time some of these 'cheesy' things never crop up anyway either because people forget about them or just don't use them. Its amazing sometimes when you have had an army for years then clear something up that has always caused a few problems.

oops better take cover- incoming fire :rolleyes:

Konop
29-03-2011, 12:05
I played a game against SM several days ago. 1250 pts objective holding.
I had:
Grand Master with psychotroke nades, master crafted hammer and 2 servo skulls.
10 Strike Squad with 2 psycannons and psybolt ammo in a Rhino
5 Strike Squad
5 Termies (hammer, halberd)
6 Purifiers (2x incinerators, rest falchios) in a Razorback
Stormraven (melta, lascannon)

The SM player had I think something like this:
Lysander with 5 Termies
3 x 10 Tacticals (flamer, missile launcha and i think combi flamer) (one of them in a Drop Pod and 1 in Rhino)
5 scouts
Land Speeder

The objectives were generally lacking any cover, so while I quickly took all of them, I got decimated by turn 3. My termies held the objective firmly, killing all the scouts and a tactical squad (psychotroke grenades = 3x 1 on the die so didn't do nothing). The Stormraven flew circles over the field and popped the rhino and DP, and then some termies and survived. The purifiers were absolutely amazing in close combat but finally got owned by the Terminators+Lysander. Psycannons in the Strike squad ruled - they destroyed the Speeder, half of a tac squad. The smaller GKSS got wiped out by another tac squad quickly (I guess either stay in cover or ride in a rhino)
In the end I held 1 objective, 1 was empty and 1 held by the enemy terminators, so it was a draw.
Oh, and servo skulls rock - the scouts and speeder had to deploy near their deployment zone, so lost all advantage (though the locator beacon on the DP did the job for them at leat partially, allowing the terminators to DS near an objective which saved their day).
Next time I play a bigger battle and take the Vindicare + some inquisitorial henchmen.

Asuron
29-03-2011, 14:16
Yes cause your "friends" will stop playing with you because you had an army that you used to suck and now can actually compete...

sure when your army was a joke you were a good "friend" and they played you... now that after almost a decade you got a new codex its obviously OTT and broken and cheese...

I wonder do you have any friends with SW, IG and BA? Back when the eldar came out did you have any friends with Eldar? In 4rth edition any of your friends had 'Nids full of MCs?

Considering that Daemons in Fantasy 7th edition managed to ruin the game and make it as unfun as possible to play against daemons, I think if Grey Knights are like that then he's right to do what he did.
But we'll have to give it a few months and see if they are overpowered like that
I doubt it, but Ward managed it in another game system, so its possible he achieved it here as well

marv335
29-03-2011, 15:26
I got my (legit from GW Mail Order) GK Codex yesterday.
So it is available, the pre-order codecies should be hitting mailboxes all over.
I got a bunch of stuff too.
:D