PDA

View Full Version : The Laughing God and the Dark Eldar



ja_warria19@yahoo.com
28-03-2011, 12:25
Ok so I am a new lover of the DE codex, and as much so on the table top. I particularly enjoy Lady Malys story. Now the being she was supposed to have had a "princess bride" style battle of wits with, I have heard was supposed to have been an incarnation of the Laughing God.

Now if thats true, I was wondering if there are any on warseer who have a good knowledge of current extra codex fluff had any clue as to what the Laughing Gods plans might be for the Dark Eldar. And or possibly why it chose Lady Malys, or if it was just a case of "Oh look what I found wandering the webway, Im going to challenge it to a battle of wits and give it my heart and a weapon if it beats me"?

Go :D

eldargal
28-03-2011, 12:59
Where did you hear that? It's certainly not hinted at in the codex. It is an interesting interpretation, though.

Assuming it is true, He could be intending Malys to replace Vect as de-facto leader of Commoragh, giving him effective control over a good percentage of the surviving Eldar population. No doubt the intention being to further His and His Harlequins plans to restore the Eldar Empire, plans that are so shocking the Craftworld Eldar are not even informed of them.

Shamana
28-03-2011, 13:19
The Laughing God is an often-considered choice for the mysterious creature Lady Malys encountered. There's no clear proof, obviously, though the creature was iirc described as celestial trickster or something to that effect several times.

Presuming it's true... well, it has plans for Malys, and the whole incident was probably a test that she passed - whether she won of her own abilities or was "allowed" to win in order to be presented with her arcane gifts. As for what these plans are, perhaps Cegorach wants to have an agent in Commoragh to make sure it can influence the Dark Eldar at some point. Remember, Cegorach can be just as circumspect a plotter as anyone else in the setting, and its plans are likely to be impossible even for an eldar to understand. Malys was described as very intelligent and creative, even by the quite demanding archon standards, and can be expected to be the best and brightest from the new generation of archons. Also, from the Panacea incident we know she had contacts among the harlequins - so they would be aware of her. Presuming she did meet Cegorach, I think her entire fall from grace might have been engineered just to arrange for that meeting.

What we can be quite sure of is that Cegorach hasn't forgotten about the Dark eldar. Its champions, the harlequins,visit the Dark city often enough, and have several times been involved when their armed forces - whether leading them as against the Murderval or bailing them out against demons - iirc the "painting eldar models" book had a few paragraphs detailing such an incident.

Torpedo Vegas
28-03-2011, 17:08
I think the Laughing God see has plans for the Eldar race was a whole, and doesn't really care about the differences between the Craftworld/Dark/Exodite eldars all that much. I get this because thats the way the Harlequins act and they are his servants after all.

I think the theory that the crystal monster being an aspect of Cegoratch makes an odd sort of sense. He is the trickster god after all, maybe he has plans for Commaragh that he can't see through with Vect still around.

orz192
28-03-2011, 17:23
I don't see the creature in Lady Malys story to be Cegorach. The creature seemed so much darker than the image of the laughing god, more like some kind of daemon.

Shamana
28-03-2011, 17:39
Possibly - but the Laughing God isn't exactly all mirth, sunshine, and inflatable balloon doggies either. The harlequins use some of the most brutal weapons in the setting, and use terror and confusion against the minions of chaos, of all things. These are the guys that can turn a cultist who's already sold body and soul to the Dark Gods into a sobbing wreck mumbling "Can't sleep, the clowns will eat me" - they aren't necessarily the best choice for a children's party.

Nurgling Chieftain
28-03-2011, 19:25
Well, whatever it was, it certainly did seem to do a lot of laughing.

Dvora
28-03-2011, 19:45
The dark eldar have laughing gas, choking gas, laughing until you are choking gas *. So.. sure why not have the laughing god too?



(Lies!)

Eumerin
28-03-2011, 20:30
I don't see the creature in Lady Malys story to be Cegorach. The creature seemed so much darker than the image of the laughing god, more like some kind of daemon.

Something that wasn't dark likely wouldn't have made much of an impression on the Lady. It's quite possible that if Yriel had been the one receiving a "gift" then the encounter might have been a little less ominous.

MikeyB
28-03-2011, 21:08
Doesn't it say in the fluff that people keep hearing Lady M laughing hysterically whilst alone in her rooms? I recon he's got her personally :)

Shamana
28-03-2011, 22:47
You don't say... I think replacing your heart with something that a smirking alien entity left you and picking the weapon that lied alongside it ranks right up there with "Yeah, my sword talks to me, so what" when it comes to decisions that might have unintended consequences :) .

Torpedo Vegas
28-03-2011, 23:41
You don't say... I think replacing your heart with something that a smirking alien entity left you and picking the weapon that lied alongside it ranks right up there with "Yeah, my sword talks to me, so what" when it comes to decisions that might have unintended consequences :) .

Putting it that way, the theory makes a lot more sense. Dark Eldar have a habit of doing stuff that is "ill-advisable" at best.

Raven Down
28-03-2011, 23:44
I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet,

But I never considered it to be the Laughing God, from the description of the heart and weapon, plus the entity itself reminds me most of the C'tan Deceiver. Then again the Deceiver and Laughing God have been known to impersonate one another over the millenia.

Eumerin
28-03-2011, 23:57
But I never considered it to be the Laughing God, from the description of the heart and weapon, plus the entity itself reminds me most of the C'tan Deceiver. Then again the Deceiver and Laughing God have been known to impersonate one another over the millenia.

On the other hand, the encounter was in the Webway, iirc. Can the C'tan enter that?

MikeyB
29-03-2011, 00:30
On the other hand, the encounter was in the Webway, iirc. Can the C'tan enter that?

Considering they have 0 access to the warp i doubt it...

ago syb
29-03-2011, 00:30
It could have just been a powerful cosmic entity, the book paints a pretty good picture of how massive and cooky the webway is. If it was cegorach, I could see why he would want Vect out of the way. Even though its looking like Vect has just started to finally get tired of living out his damnation as a jaded-unto-soulessness genius, who is also literally losing his soul, he wouldn't let a little thing like a god wrest control from him. That sort of pride is programmed into him by now.

Man these stories sure can get cool :P

TheLaughingGod
29-03-2011, 00:44
It could have just been a powerful cosmic entity, the book paints a pretty good picture of how massive and cooky the webway is. If it was cegorach, I could see why he would want Vect out of the way. Even though its looking like Vect has just started to finally get tired of living out his damnation as a jaded-unto-soulessness genius, who is also literally losing his soul, he wouldn't let a little thing like a god wrest control from him. That sort of pride is programmed into him by now.

Man these stories sure can get cool :P

You know what's weird? When Phil Kelly writes stuff, it's just awesome and we talk about it in tones of near giddy respect and fascination... and then you contrast it with what Ward writes... yeaaah. It's sad, but there was a time when ALL of 40k was this good.

MikeyB
29-03-2011, 00:50
You know what's weird? When Phil Kelly writes stuff, it's just awesome and we talk about it in tones of near giddy respect and fascination... and then you contrast it with what Ward writes... yeaaah. It's sad, but there was a time when ALL of 40k was this good.

Now now lets not get into that, AGAIN! :D

Our theory among my group is that she's possessed by TLG and he wants to use her to gain controll and maybe turn the Deldar into somthing useful. Wouldnt surprise me at all if he was behind them coming to the rescue when Yriels lot where getting pwnd by nids again.

Vaktathi
29-03-2011, 01:53
You know what's weird? When Phil Kelly writes stuff, it's just awesome and we talk about it in tones of near giddy respect and fascination... and then you contrast it with what Ward writes... yeaaah. It's sad, but there was a time when ALL of 40k was this good.

And then there was Space Wolves...

TheLaughingGod
29-03-2011, 02:17
And then there was Space Wolves...

Meh, Space Wolves weren't that bad. The only real wtf part is the number of times the word "Wolf" appears. He does a good job of adding some 40k takes on Norse mythological figures/gods/heroes.

He makes Space Wolves classy.

Dag
29-03-2011, 02:27
Ya, i love the space wolves, the unit selections get tiring but why wouldnt you spam grey hunters anyway? see! no wolf!

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 02:41
Whoever asked if people hear her laughing, not exactly. It says she's always like "Grr :shifty:" (for lack of a better description), always scowling in public and everything, but when she's sure nobody's looking and in her private sanctum, she stares at herself in the mirror; smiling, then giggling, until she's finally laughing like a maniac which sounds like it's coming from two throats.

Man, Phil Kelly can write awesome fluff.

MikeyB
29-03-2011, 03:24
Whoever asked if people hear her laughing, not exactly. It says she's always like "Grr :shifty:" (for lack of a better description), always scowling in public and everything, but when she's sure nobody's looking and in her private sanctum, she stares at herself in the mirror; smiling, then giggling, until she's finally laughing like a maniac which sounds like it's coming from two throats.

Man, Phil Kelly can write awesome fluff.

That to me says shes got good old TLG inside ^_^

Stealin' Genes
29-03-2011, 04:02
Yes, but SW fluff has always been a little silly. And they've always had wolf lords with wolf cloaks and wolf necklaces and wolf hats and wolf thermal underwear and a couple of wolves following them into battle.

Vaktathi
29-03-2011, 04:15
Meh, Space Wolves weren't that bad. The only real wtf part is the number of times the word "Wolf" appears. He does a good job of adding some 40k takes on Norse mythological figures/gods/heroes.

He makes Space Wolves classy.

Did we forget about firing artillery by smell then chasing after the rockets and that sort of ridiculousness?

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 04:27
That to me says shes got good old TLG inside ^_^

Eh, my opinion is that it's something a lot more sinister. Not that the Laughing God isn't sinister :shifty:

Dvora
29-03-2011, 04:59
I'm unsure, I think that it could either be the Laughing God or the Deciever.

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 05:04
I'm against it being the Deceiver if only because the C'tan are hamfisted into every single 40k conspiracy theory, and how would they get into the Webway?

IMHO it's more interesting if it's not a God or known creature, but something more mysterious.

Raven Down
29-03-2011, 06:01
I'm against it being the Deceiver if only because the C'tan are hamfisted into every single 40k conspiracy theory, and how would they get into the Webway?

There are hundreds of gateways into the webway, though most remain in Eldar hands and are sealed against warp entities its not a stretch to assume the Deciever can enter the webway as it is a realm outside both the real world and the warp.

But I do believe the Laughing God is a better fit in this case.

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 06:11
Depends if he knows how to open it or not.

However, I agree. I do like the Laughing God theory.

Hendarion
29-03-2011, 07:26
Well, lets assume Malys really got touched that way by the Laughing God. Could it make her something we are missing so long from both Eldar Codices? A Solitaire? They've always been said to hide, to be sneeky, to live among others without their knowledge. At least in the really old fluff before they turned into "don't speak to him or it's better to outright kill yourself". Maybe even without her knowing herself? A puppet of the Great Harlequin who can see himself when Malys looks into the mirror and that's what makes him laugh? Having trumped herself in the game they've played in the Webway although she believes she won?

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 07:27
Don't their souls belong to Slaanesh?

Hendarion
29-03-2011, 07:33
That was not the original fluff. The original called them not "doomed" as the new one. But it called them "touched by The Laughing God" and "his most chosen ones". To me both these things are entirely the opposite. So whatever version you want to believe, it might make sense or won't.
But considering that DE-souls belong to Slaanesh anyway, it *could* also fit the new fluff.

PS:
Ha! I love so much speculations. It's great. ♥ Kelly for that. The Decapitator has a similar nice grim-dark-unknown fluff.

daboarder
29-03-2011, 07:36
Their doomed to slanesh's embrace after death but if they serve him well TLG sometimes rescues them from eternal damnation.

Im against it being the deceiver as he can't enter the webway being a C'tan and all that....

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 07:40
Im against it being the deceiver as he can't enter the webway being a C'tan and all that....
Why would being a C'tan make him unable to enter the Webway? Sure, he'd have to find an open gate but he'd still be able to go in.


EDIT:
Ha! I love so much speculations. It's great. ♥ Kelly for that. The Decapitator has a similar nice grim-dark-unknown fluff.
Me too! I also love Codex: Orks, Eldar and 4th edition Tyranids. Who are by him :D

daboarder
29-03-2011, 07:51
the Warp in anathema to the C'tan, they cannot exist in it and as such are unable to enter the web way.

Thats why they have a fascination for blanks and kidnap them to turn them into pariah's

It's hazy but the pillars of cadia are IIRC meant to be a necron weapon developed to quite the eye of terror, though how that fits with them being dormant during the birth of slanesh I'm not sure.

EDIT: of course having just re-read the malys story well.....the immunity to psychic power granted by her heart and the last lines hinting at her control of the fate of vect and comoragh is interesting to say the least...

Poseidal
29-03-2011, 07:57
I think they weren't dormant, but the Birth of Slaanesh was way more than they could handle.

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 07:59
Just because it is anathema to them does not mean they cannot exist in it. They don't like the warp because they cannot control it like they can the material universe, and thus can't, say, stop a beam of warp energy like they would a hail of bullets. A common misconception, though.

daboarder
29-03-2011, 08:12
Actually that is exactly what anathema means, the 2 cannot coexist they are polar opposites, 2 sides of the same coin or unstoppable forces meeting immovable objects they cannot exist together.

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 08:17
You'll have to take up someone who knows the Necron fluff better, but I'd just like to point out that Games Workshop have screwed up words on more than one occasion. I'd have to go look for some but there are some pretty glaring ones.

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 08:19
I'd also like to point out that the Webway =/= the Warp.


EDIT: Oops. Double post.

daboarder
29-03-2011, 08:37
You'll have to take up someone who knows the Necron fluff better, but I'd just like to point out that Games Workshop have screwed up words on more than one occasion. I'd have to go look for some but there are some pretty glaring ones.

Oh I agree, but in this case its actually appropriate, its a big part of the necron background that the C'tan are basically god "blanks" in a sense, its one of the reasons why the eldar are old ones had to resort to warp based weaponry to beat them ie: the original eldar gods were weapons created to fight the C'tan.

as for the webway/warp business, the webway exists within the warp so still probably wouldn't be good for a C'tan.

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 08:38
Dunno if you're using the term incorrectly but being a blank doesn't prevent you going into the Warp either.

That, and I always thought they used Warp-based weaponry because C'tan cannot manipulate it like they can physical energy, which is why they hate it.

daboarder
29-03-2011, 08:47
mmm I know being a blank doesn't preclude one form entering the warp hence the "in a sense" part. Its hard to discuss incomplete concepts such as Blanks, the warp, the webway and the C'tan in text. as for the weapons and the anathema bit, thats from 10+ years of reading all the background I can get my hands on. I particularly recomend the liber chaotica book the slanesh part has the clearest description of the rise and fall of the eldar I have ever read, really helps sort out alot of the chronology.

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 08:48
I agree. Much easier face to face.

Also, I have Liber Chaotica.

Barbarossa
29-03-2011, 11:38
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tzeentch yet. A riddle contest would be right up his alley, especially if the contest could be used to make Malys a willing, if unwitting, victim of possession. The immunity to psychic powers could also stem from that, Tzeentch being the god of sorcery and psychic power.
Also, that would be a nice stunt pulled on Slaanesh; snatching Dark Eldar souls away from right under his eyes.

MvS
29-03-2011, 11:39
Regarding Malys, it's all speculation but I like the idea of her being a Solitaire. Even if she lost her soul to Slaanesh, perhaps the Laughing God gave her a new one - say a fragment of himself...

Whatever, the mystery is a good one.

I see no reason why a C'tan couldn't enter the Webway. I mean granted it wouldn't be able to open a webway gate because these are psychically activated. But I don't see why one couldn't get through an active gate. The Webway isn't the Warp per se. If it was, nothing could live in there (except, apparently, Draigo). It's protected from the broiling energies of the Warp and its denizens by largely unbreachable walls of reality (of some sort).

As for whether C'tan could enter the Warp, again I don't see why not, providing they found a gateway. The problem is that they have no power at all over the 'substance' of the Warp, so they are as vulnerable as anyone else to being warped, overwhelmed or possibly even destroyed by it.

The Warp isn't Kryptonite to C'tan. It's more like mistletoe was to Baldur, the one thing that actually can consistently harm them if used as a weapon. http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Ar-Be/Balder.html

eldargal
29-03-2011, 11:43
I wondered that myself, Barbarossa, but I think it has the same problems as the C'tan. Can a Chaos god manigest itself in an environment that is sealed against such intrusions? If they can, why isn't Slaanesh in Commoragh making Herself sick on chocolately Dark Eldar soul goodness?

Barbarossa
29-03-2011, 11:53
From what I've read, some sections of the webway are safer than others. Some have splintered or even completely collapsed. Maybe Malys was just in a "bad part of town", so to say.

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 12:00
Those parts are generally sealed off, due to, you know... Daemons.

Shamana
29-03-2011, 12:07
Ok, let's just agree that the piece of fluff is ambiguous and open to interpretations, shall we?

eyescrossed
29-03-2011, 12:23
Haha, gladly. That's what I love about Phil's fluff; there is so much discussion to be had on it :)

Malagate
29-03-2011, 12:41
Ok, let's just agree that the piece of fluff is ambiguous and open to interpretations, shall we?

I'd say that's a given in a discussion such as this, which is also why it's so fun to discuss ;)

A bit of mystery with a character can do wonders, something that the likes of Ward should have used a bit more tactfully with the most mysterious of marine chapters ever, and Malys really pops for me thanks to it.

We obviously can't say any one person is right or wrong (until more official stuff is made anyway), but I'd rank the chances of what it is in order of most likely to least likely:

1) Malevolant/Weird Warp entity of no major affiliation (not a Tzeench greater daemon or whatever)

2) Eldar based warp entity (Laughing God and whatever lessers might still be around)

3) Daemonic entity with affiliation (Tzeench/whatever found a way in!)

4) A powerful non-warp entity that lives in the webway (Old one remnant? Who knows!)

5) A C'tan somehow gets in there (and somehow shares a body rather than consume & replace it or is somehow content with staying in one place/body for at least centuries)

The WH40K universe is big enough and strange enough to have all sorts of one-off negative space wedgies lying around to act as power ups for almost everyone to play with, may as well use something extra weird and unknown to power up Malys (that way you don't accidentally end up advancing the plot!).