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Kampfpanzer
30-03-2011, 12:39
If I give my BSB a halberd AND the Enchanted Shield, does he still get the +2AS, even though he is using the halberd in CC?

Artinam
30-03-2011, 12:48
No, a shield magical or otherwise cannot be wielded when using a two-handed weapon.
Against shooting and magic you can claim the bonus to your save.

Kampfpanzer
30-03-2011, 12:49
Alrighty, I figured, just wasn't sure because it was magical armour

mildaevilda
30-03-2011, 12:50
No, shield will be effective only against shooting or if you choose to use handweapon (or weapon that doesn't require two hands) in close combat.

FestHest
30-03-2011, 14:11
If you upgrade a model with another weapon then handweapon he must then use that and cannot opt to use eg handweapon and shield if he already have a greatweapon.
BRB. p 89.

mildaevilda
30-03-2011, 17:01
FestHest: You are right, I miss that. So shield with weapon that requires two hand is effective only outside close combat (e.g. against shooting).

ariochhelldrake
30-03-2011, 23:55
Unless your a Black Orc!

Lord Inquisitor
31-03-2011, 00:36
Unless your a Black Orc!

Or an Ogre!

jtrowell
31-03-2011, 09:10
Or an Ogre!

Not exactly: the ironfist can only be used during close combat, and so is useless versus shooting, and taking an enchanted shield for an ogre character would works like it does for any other army.

Lord Inquisitor
31-03-2011, 14:01
The point is that they carry ogre clubs instead of hand weapons - so they can choose to use that with their enchanted shield instead of a great weapon, etc, as it isn't just a hand weapon.

Avian
31-03-2011, 14:16
Ogre clubs are hand weapons. This is explicitly stated in their rules.

Lord Inquisitor
31-03-2011, 16:22
So it's a special weapon that counts as a hand weapon with special rules. To support this, the FAQ on whether bulls retain their clubs when equipped with ironfists implies the clubs are special weapons (otherwise what's the point in the question?).

Avian
31-03-2011, 16:26
I can quote the rule if you like:


Ogre clubs are hand weapons, ...

They are hand weapons with additional rules, thus being an example of where army books trump the rulebook (in the rulebook, hand weapons don't have any special rules).

vorthain
31-03-2011, 16:40
Related: Is it a similar deal with Dark Elf Beastmaster Scourges, being hand weapons with an extra rule, which would allow them to still benefit from parrying?

theunwantedbeing
31-03-2011, 16:46
Related: Is it a similar deal with Dark Elf Beastmaster Scourges,?

Used to be, the errata changed that.

lparigi34
31-03-2011, 18:29
Unless your a Black Orc!

Don't you have to declare your weapon choice at the very beginning of the CC?

If you declare you are using 2HW or a GW then the shield still has no use in CC until that combat is fully resolved.

Lord Inquisitor
31-03-2011, 18:37
They are hand weapons with additional rules, thus being an example of where army books trump the rulebook (in the rulebook, hand weapons don't have any special rules).
So what about models with two hand weapons and a halberd. Are they not allowed to use the two hand weapons because they're not a special weapon, they're both hand weapons?

Hand weapons are not Ogre Clubs. Ogre Clubs are a special weapon that, other than their special rule, is a hand weapon.

Avian
31-03-2011, 19:40
Ogre clubs, by their own rules, are hand weapons. You can't actually dispute that if you are able to read English. Furthermore, they would be hand weapons if they shot lightning bolts and recited poetry. The army book says they are hand weapons and the army book trumps the rulebook if there is conflict.

It's the same with having two hand weapons - they are what they are (in this case a special weapon) because there is a rule that says this. If there had been no such mention, it would have defaulted to the normal rules.