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sprugly
31-03-2011, 08:59
Having now Had chance to look at the Gk codex I was considering a paladin army with draigo. I can conceivably get the master, 2 squads of tooled up paladins and either land raider or storm raven transports for both squads. Plus maybe another character in there.

Do people think that these tiny armies are viable? And will they be popular in any way.

Sprugly

Shamana
31-03-2011, 09:31
Well, I think people will at least try the Palawing to see how an army of multiwound terminators handles. Whether it is viable depends on the foe, I think - it might be cool against some, but I wouldn't try it against, say, IG spamming meltagun veterans. Or most IG armies, really :) .

Hypaspist
31-03-2011, 09:35
It will be very fun to make, build, and play, but unless you stick with it and master it's play-style you will get many shoe-ings as the weakness of *any* list like this, is that should you have a bad turn, or make tactical errors, you will feel it a lot harder than Mr. Horde. (who also has more dice to get a better placement on the bell curve of averages)


If you want to do it

:yes:

then DO IT!

but just have your eyes wide open to the inherent weakness in any elite force with small numbers :)

I do think it could work though.

Excessus
31-03-2011, 10:11
Do it! Everybody with str8 ap2 weapons or better will love playing against you!

Zweischneid
31-03-2011, 10:17
I think it will be a strong black-or-white sort of affair.

Lists with the proper tools to take on the Paladins will wipe you off the board quickly. Lists without them will be in for a more frustrating experience. Neither sounds like the most fun of all possible games.

On the plus-side, there's few cheaper ways to start a 40K army. I'd say go with it and perhaps expand later if Grey Knights continue to excite you.

'lectric-sheep12
31-03-2011, 10:26
Do it! Everybody with str8 ap2 weapons or better will love playing against you!

Yea. Any army with a decent number of power weapons, meltaguns or low AP high strength blast templates (any weapons of S8 or more, instant death your paladins) will be trouble, as each paladin death is quite a large chunk from your army.

One Leman Russ Battle Cannon hit on a unit of paladins, S8, only 5+ Invul usually, instant death... By by a whole lotta points...

(Or Ork Boomgun, Chaos Defiler Gun, Vindicator Cannon, Basilisk Earthshaker Cannon etc.)

Although you could get around this by using transports like the land raider and stormraven or deepstriking. If the transport gets destroyed your paladins probably won't die in their, but will be in the open next turn, however.

On the plus side, you'll excel at objective games with deepstriking troops that are super awesome!

And an army like that is totally epic and would do well once you got into combat. :D

Hypaspist
31-03-2011, 10:48
Only the Vindicator and Earthsaker from your list have the AP to get through the Termi armour, everything else would leave him still with his 2+ armour ;)

sprugly
31-03-2011, 10:55
Think okay proxy it first for fun. Really must finish my current project before I get anything else. Sounds like a fun list tho
Sprugly

Asmodia
31-03-2011, 11:20
Time to fire up the Demolisher and Executioner :)

It would hit very hard, in one place, if you made it. Don't think it would do to well against hordes.

Excessus
31-03-2011, 11:54
just imagine the fun you could have with two lash princes with only two enemy units on the board :D

Aluinn
31-03-2011, 11:58
I'd say, if you do it, steer well clear of any Apothecaries.

People compare the Paladin unit to Ork Nobz, and thus think that they need FnP in order to work, but the reason why Nobz need FnP is that, otherwise, they're vulnerable to getting dakkaed to death by a bunch of bolters (or whatever). Of course, this is not the case with Paladins, because they have a 2+ armor save. Sure, causing an overwhelming number of wounds on most Terminators works fine as a means of killing them, but in the case of Paladins, you get one 2+-save-protected wound for far less than any single-wound Terminator costs, so it really is not efficient.

FnP won't protect them against the things they should really worry about, which are any weapons that would inflict Instant Death. Also, that GK Apothecary is a LOT more expensive than, to stick with the comparison, the Painboy in the Nob unit.

I think if you're running them, there are maybe two ways to field them (and my second suggestion here is questionable, but I believe it to be worth a try): As a 5-man unit with 2 master-crafted psycannons, and no more points than that spent on upgrades (but with a different combination of free weapons on every model for wound allocation shenanigans, which I normally detest, but this unit needs to be able to do that or it isn't viable); or as a unit of just a single Paladin. The point of the single Paladin is that he allows you to fill up your Troops choices with scoring units, if you're taking Draigo, and can also be a nuisance by casting Holocaust. The weapon of choice there is probably a hammer, which makes him also a threat to vehicles and thus even more of a nuisance. These would have to be deployed by Deep Strike to really do what they're meant to do. They would also of course have to be backed up by a number of meatier units--their job is to either take the heat off said meatier units, or, if ignored, run amock dropping pie plates on infantry, tying up shooty units in close combat (and possibly even winning), and smashing vehicles with hammers.

Both of these choices strike me as relatively efficient: The 5-man unit actually has a pretty good psycannon-to-points ratio (on par with Strike Squads, much better than normal GK Termies), especially considering that they can always fire the full number of shots, whereas the lone Paladin is very cheap for a scoring unit that can Deep Strike onto objectives, and gets the Holocaust power at a bargain.

LonelyPath
31-03-2011, 15:01
There is already 1 Palawing wing in my area thanks to a guy getting his advance orders yesterday in the shape of 3 Terminator boxes and Draigo, he sat down and assembled the whole lot after working out the list he wanted (amending a list he'd put together using the leaked codex). He hasn't done it 100% Paladins though, he does have 1 small regular termie squad to help bulk up a few more models, lol.

As for me, I'll likely put together 1 Paladin squad seeing how I already have more than enough GKT to field a all terminator force at anything up to around 5000 points (I Love Ebay and how everyone's been selling metal GKT for about 2 or 3 to be replaced with the plastics, plus the same guy mentioned earlier sold me a bunch of his old GKT which made me happier). My army will be Termie heavy, but not dependent on the Paladins (since I also have a lot of other things I can use in the GK collection).

I do see Palawing being whittled down by massed firepower, it will happen regardless in the law of averages you can always roll that 1 on the armour save even though there's only a 16.6667% chance of it happening. It may take time, but if you line up enough lasguns, you're bound to take a few out.

Grimmeth
31-03-2011, 15:11
How many Guardsmen can you realistically get in 1500 points? about 150?

150 lasguns, should cause a massive 4 wounds a turn if my calculations are correct - it'll take a long while to bring down those Paladins with that...

Godswildcard
31-03-2011, 16:01
I can run about 6 melta vets squads in chimeras with room to spare for several russ' at 1500 points.....

Its enough firepower to cripple the Grey Knights, not a shoe-in victory, but a good equalizer. The real test would actually be popping the transports, but hull mounted lascannons can effectively take care of that. I'm just saying its possible and something you'd have to look out for.

As a Grey Knights player, my main goal would be to pop the transports to limit the vets' mobility, and then take my time dismantling his heavy weapons with my transports. Problems for me arise when my transports get popped early, as a small list like this would have a very difficult time taking on armor, but then I guess thats something the grey knights have always had difficulty with. I'm sure you could make it work (Lord knows I want to try it!) but its going to take some getting used to, as with any new type army.

LonelyPath
31-03-2011, 16:06
How many Guardsmen can you realistically get in 1500 points? about 150?

150 lasguns, should cause a massive 4 wounds a turn if my calculations are correct - it'll take a long while to bring down those Paladins with that...

Another reason why I love the Demolisher and Executioner ;)

ColShaw
31-03-2011, 16:17
How many Guardsmen can you realistically get in 1500 points? about 150?

150 lasguns, should cause a massive 4 wounds a turn if my calculations are correct - it'll take a long while to bring down those Paladins with that...

Except that it's never just 150 Lasguns. It's 150 Lasguns with First Rank, Fire for starters, so that's double the wounds right there. And then there's weapon upgrades, especially instant-death ones like Lascannons (and even Missile Launchers, if you roll 1s for armor saves).

1500 points can get you, for instance:
CCS, Lascannon - 70
Chimera, Multilaser, Heavy Flamer - 55
CCS, Lascannon - 70
PCS, Lascannon - 50
5xInfantry Squad, Lascannons, Commissar - 385
PCS, Lascannon - 50
5xInfantry Squad, Lascannons, Commissar - 385
PCS, Lascannon - 50
5xInfantry Squad, Lascannons, Commissar - 385

So, this works out to 20 Lascannon shots (1 at BS4), in addition to 105 Lasgun shots and 3 Multilaser shots. On Planet Bowling Ball, of course. But that's gonna be messy regardless.

TimLeeson
31-03-2011, 16:18
Small armies are my favourite play-style, I love being outnumbered and plan to make my next enslaver army even smaller than the last one (counts-as eldar) using the paladin/draigo style. Also, for people like me who dont like painting a lot of models, it's another plus - and better to have a small painted army than lots of grey with a few that are painted IMO.

Worsle
31-03-2011, 16:42
You can do it, it wont be a good army but you can do it. Not sure what else there is to say, it is a low model count army where your main weakness is anti tank weapons. You know one of the things everyone should be taking anyway? It is also why paladins are jut meh in general, sure you can make them all but immune to small arms fire but that does not matter against the weapons people will use when they want you dead anyway.

'lectric-sheep12
02-04-2011, 11:35
Only the Vindicator and Earthsaker from your list have the AP to get through the Termi armour, everything else would leave him still with his 2+ armour ;)

Oh yea sorry! Probably wasn't thinking when I wrote that... :cries:

Anyway, you get what I mean though. :cheese: