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Syndtristleit
02-04-2011, 15:06
Hi everyone. I just used this army list against a Lizardmen army, and I lost the game. Whilst it's not supposed to be a tourney list I still like to win. Does anyone have any ideas of how I could improve it?

Thx for any answers :)

Lords:
Dreadlord on Black Dragon 460p
Great Weapon 6p, Armor of Darkness 25p, Pendant of Khaeleth 35p, Crown of Command 35p
Totalt 561p

Heroes:
Sorceress Lvl 2 135p
Dispel Scroll 25p, Focus Familiar 25p
Totalt 185p

Sorceress Lvl 2 135p
Crystal of Midnight 35p, Tome of Furion 15p
Totalt 185p

Master, Battle Standard Bearer 105p
Heavy Armor 4p, Sea Dragon Cloak 4p, Shield 2p, Banner of Nagarythe 125p
Totalt 240p

Core Units:
40 Crossbowmen 400p

30 Spearmen /m Shield 210p
Full Command 15p
Totalt 225p

Assassin 90p
Additional handweapon 6p, Venom Sword 75p

Special Units:
17 Black Guards 221p + Kouran 75p
Full Command 35p
Totalt 331p

Rare Units:
2 Reaper Bolt Trowers 200p

Totalt: 2498p

Don Zeko
02-04-2011, 15:50
Well for starters, your list is illegal. Mages can only take one arcane item, so that level two can have a dispel scroll or a focus familiar, but not both. Plus, those casters need to pick a lore now; you can't pick a lore before deployment any more. I'd recommend Shadow and Metal.

You also have several choices in there that are just not worth the points. An assassin with the venom sword is very unlikely to kill much and will probably die in the first round of combat. Kouran is overpriced and underwhelming, the Banner of Nagarythe is also overpriced, and those bolt throwers are fairly useless. I'd get rid of all of them, including the illegal focus familiar, freeing up an impressive 500 points. With that, you want to get the black guard a regular champion with the Crimson Death, the Banner of Murder, and an extra three models to get a full size unit (103 pts). Then I'd bump those spearmen up to horde size, so 10 more models (70 pts). That leaves you with about 330 points and a decision to make, but I'll come back to that after I point out the less obvious sources of points in your existing list.

40 crossbowmen is just too many. Dark Elf shooting is powerful, but we aren't dwarves or Empire; you can't win games against non-High Elves with massed RXB's. You need shooting that supports your combat troops, and there just aren't enough combat troops in your list to threaten a Lizardmen player. 40 RXB's is a huge points investment in a unit that's too wide to deploy and maneuver effectively. I'd drop it to a unit of 20 with full command or perhaps two units of 10.

And then there's your dragon. Now, I definitely understand the appeal of a dragon, so I'm not going to tell you that it's a non-option. But if you've been having trouble winning, then you need to consider reducing the awesomeness of your list in order to win games, particularly if you've got a lot of competitive lists in your gaming group. Now the most competitive DE lists in 8th will have a level 4 sorceress, but you can still be successful with a dreadlord. I'd give him the Dragonhelm, Soulrender, the Pendant, and Crown of Command on a Cold One. Use him to tie up powerful enemy units that you don't want to fight, and enjoy the additional 500 points that axing the dragon and the crossbowmen have earned you.

OK, so now we've got a little over 800 points to play with. For starters, you need some mobile troops. Dark Riders, Shades, and harpies are all well great for protecting your flanks, mage and war machine killing, things like that. I'd get 2-3 units of them, but I don't have any strong opinions on which ones you should get. Take shades in units of 7-10 with additional hand weapons, harpies in units of 5, and dark riders in units of 5-6 with crossbows and a musician.

With your remaining points, you need to buy some assault troops that will threaten lizardmen in CC. Tmarichards will probably be on here shortly telling you to take a Witch Elf horde with the banner of eternal flame. I don't have any problem with that, but I also think that units of 6-7 cold one knights are quite useful, albeit less good than in 7th. We'll agree that switching your mundane BSB for a hag on a cauldron of blood with the BSB is an excellent choice, and that hydras are considered cheesy for a reason. It's up to you exactly what mixture of these things you spend those points on, but so long as you're removing the things I suggested and getting new stuff from the list that I've given, you can't go too far wrong. Good luck!

P.S.: I don't know what list your opponent is running, but 8th edition Lizardmen are nasty. even a much stronger list than your initial one won't win every game against a slann-led saurus phalanx with salamanders and chameleon skinks.

Syndtristleit
02-04-2011, 16:36
Thank you very much for the reply. This is very usefull information for me! :) I will sit down right away and start re-modifying my list! Although im not backing away from the dragon, even though it may be more competative with a lvl 4 mage ;D

Thank you!

tmarichards
03-04-2011, 20:34
Well, I think you should take a horde of Witch Elves with the banner of eternal flame... :D

But pretty much +1 on what Don said.

Destruction2
03-04-2011, 22:33
how big do you run your witch elf horde? im currently running 24 at 6 wide, 4 deep with the banner of eternal flame and the hag has manbane for killing tougher stuff. I'm just interested to see how this has been working for you

Don Zeko
03-04-2011, 22:49
6 wide isn't a horde. You have to run them 10-wide, so at least 30-strong, to get the benefit. I'd suggest anywhere from 35 to 40 if you're going to go that route.

Destruction2
03-04-2011, 22:51
i never said 6 wide was a horde... i said i ran them 6 wide atm and wondered how a horde of witches was working for him

Don Zeko
03-04-2011, 22:53
Ah, sorry. I misunderstood you. That's a good question, actually. Tmarichards, you wouldn't be willing to start making some youtube battle reports, would you? They're really not that much trouble.

tmarichards
04-04-2011, 15:18
I'll give them a go, but really don't know how to do them, has anyone done a how-to guide on them? In any event, I'll take some pictures at my (mini) tournament this weekend, then if I can work out how to do it I'll try and put one up.

As to Witches, I'm currently running 36 with full command and banner of eternal flame (main reason for this is that the next 2 events I'm going to have a 400pt unit cap). They're able to soak up a fair bit of damage, and with an extra attack and Okkams are more than capable of removing any unit in the game (perhaps barring 3+ ward stuff).

Don Zeko
04-04-2011, 20:49
They're not particularly difficult. You bring a camera to the game and take a picture of everything of note that happens: initial deployment, movement, casualties from shooting or magic, casualties and outcomes of combat, etc. In 8th, you might want to bring a notepad and scribble down spells with non-obvious effects (unit buffs, miscast results, etc). Then you use a basic movie-making program, which is probably already on your computer. I run Windows, and do my reports on Windows Movie Maker. Set the photos up in order, record a voiceover in which you describe what happened, adjust the length of time that each picture is on screen so that the appropriate picture is on screen when you describe what happened. Then add a title at the beginning and at the end of each turn, and you're golden. The trick is to remember to take good pictures and to make the video within a couple of days of the game, so that you can remember everything significant that happened. If you're curious about any details of how to do it right, watch a couple of Oncebitten's reports. His are pretty much the gold standard.