PDA

View Full Version : should sisters get a heavy armoured option



ghost21
03-04-2011, 18:22
like with terminatoresque or artificer armour?

discuss

Wishing
03-04-2011, 19:24
I would love to see what an extra-heavy suit of battle sister armour might look like as designed by Jes Goodwin. So I'd say absolutely. It goes without saying though that they shouldn't just be sister terminators, but something unique and interesting as a unit.

Wolf Lord Balrog
03-04-2011, 19:35
Artificer armor maybe, not terminator armor though. And you definitely need some kind of 'Sisters'-style hook for the unit.

MikeyB
03-04-2011, 19:44
Don't see why Celestians couldn't be buffed with Artificer armour. Would make sense i think.

AlexHolker
03-04-2011, 20:15
I'd say no, not unless the Cloak of Saint Aspira is going to be turned into something even better. And definitely not Terminator Armour.

Godzooky
03-04-2011, 20:25
Dominator armour. :)

xerxeshavelock
03-04-2011, 20:30
Honestly I would like the sisters go down to 4+ with heavy squads in 3+.

Unlikely, so I'd go for Heavy squads - heavy weapons but no power weapons.

And yes, the figs could be awesome, really baroque.

theJ
03-04-2011, 20:35
Artificier Armour makes an awful lot of sense and should be in.
Some sort of combat/storm shield makes sense as well, and could be put in.

...
Terminator Armour (or thereabout)? no. "super heavy" armour does not fit with the sister imagery (how would you make the corsets work for one... :shifty:).
Secondly, it'd make them too similiar to the marines (I know the similarities are rather heavy already, but that only reinforces my point - if we make them even more similiar, then they'll truly be nothing but "female marines").
Thirdly.... can't we have some unique stuff instead? If we need stuff to take hits for us, we'd be better served by putting the Fraternis Militia back in. If we need stuff to be killy, we'd be better served improving their killyness rather than their armour.

Ideal Celestian: Artificier Armour, Sarissa, Holy Ammunition, Fearless/Stubborn

Surgency
03-04-2011, 20:50
Thirdly.... can't we have some unique stuff instead? If we need stuff to take hits for us, we'd be better served by putting the Fraternis Militia back in

Heres hoping for mixed Sisters/Frateris squads :p

Col. von Dryden
03-04-2011, 20:50
Careful what you wish for...you may get a "dreadknigh-esque" abomination instead...

ghost21
03-04-2011, 20:53
Careful what you wish for...you may get a "dreadknigh-esque" abomination instead...

ill be good .....

LonelyPath
03-04-2011, 21:24
Don't see why Celestians couldn't be buffed with Artificer armour. Would make sense i think.

That's what I'd like to see myself.

Vaktathi
03-04-2011, 21:28
*personally* I like sisters as sort of a "light infantry" Power Armor force (as much as one can be in that sense). From that perspective, I'd rather see 2+sv's only on a handful of HQ units, with heavier stuff being restricted to walkers and tanks.

2+sv units also tend to be heavy assault units and sisters have never had such a heavy CC unit, and I'm not sure it would really suit the theme.

SgtTaters
03-04-2011, 21:29
Here's the real question:

Do you want to see boobs on a terminator?

Lord Damocles
03-04-2011, 21:30
I'd be concerned that a Terminator-esque unit would turn Sisters into female Marines...

Xandros
03-04-2011, 21:36
If they got new armour it would be lingerie incorporating a power field.

ShodansOwn
03-04-2011, 21:41
Careful what you wish for...you may get a "dreadknigh-esque" abomination instead...

*cough COUGH* (http://www.ironhalo.net/Images/40k/engine01.jpg)

As for the OP, I would imagine artificer style stats but considering the sister's inferior tech/cybernetics it would be bulkier. Not necessarily terminator-looking, but that size in order to gain a 2+.

Its not a terrible idea to give them 4+ on troops and 3+ on heavies, though something to boost their survivability at 4+ would help (I'm sure SoB plate is more durable than Carapace armor...). Perhaps make both 4+ and 3+ Invul, or is that too powerful? Faith protects!


Here's the real question:

Do you want to see boobs on a terminator?
In 3rd ed Witch Hunters I had a female Inquisitor in terminator armor. It was just a head mod; considering the bulk of metal its not really necessary or practical to feminize the armor.

Trick
03-04-2011, 21:59
I think an interesting way of differing them from Marine and Knight heavy armour would be to make them fire support rather than close assault. In the same vein as Tau Broadsides I think it would be cool to give Retribution squads heavy armour to add additional support when carrying heavy weapons. Puts more emphasis on the strength of Space Marines and the frailty of humans, even in power armour.

I'd do it with less armour plating and more obvious cabling/hydraulics assisting the limbs. Something not nearly as well crafted or efficient as terminator armour but offers greater protection than power armour.

Trick

Wishing
03-04-2011, 22:33
Dominator armour. :)

Oh yeah.


I think an interesting way of differing them from Marine and Knight heavy armour would be to make them fire support rather than close assault. In the same vein as Tau Broadsides I think it would be cool to give Retribution squads heavy armour to add additional support when carrying heavy weapons. Puts more emphasis on the strength of Space Marines and the frailty of humans, even in power armour.

I could see that being really cool. I agree that a sister heavy armour unit should be gun-oriented rather than close combat-oriented, since there are no power-armour-sister close combat squads.

Inquisitor_Eljer
03-04-2011, 22:35
Artificer armor maybe, not terminator armor though. And you definitely need some kind of 'Sisters'-style hook for the unit.

^ This ^.....

xxRavenxx
03-04-2011, 23:00
I'd be concerned that a Terminator-esque unit would turn Sisters into female Marines...

I'd be concerned that it will just be a unit of fat chicks...

Gatsby
03-04-2011, 23:11
I'd like to see celestines get artificer armor but that's it, I'm with everyone else about no terminator armor (out of morbid curiosity I would like to see what they would look like though...)

(other than that all I want are adeptus arbites to replace the inquisition presence)

Shnerg
03-04-2011, 23:17
I think I'd like to see something like the Eldar Shadow Spectres?

Mistresses of the Dungeon, or some other sex pun - 25pts per model

WS3;BS4;S3;T3;W1;I3;A1:Ld8;Sv3+

Equipment: Power Armour, Holy Chorus (5++), Choirs of Purgation (Str7 AP2 Heavy (No of sisters in the unit)

Slow and Purposeful

Si, or no si?

Sister_Sin
03-04-2011, 23:54
Celestians with Artificer Armor would be excellent in my opinion. I think terminator type armor is too much.

Sister Sin

a1elbow
04-04-2011, 00:10
Art. armor on Celestians could be interesting, but I don't know they actually need it.

I actually don't know that I feel like the actual Sisters need more options. I wouldn't mind something different in terms of the Dominion squads, but outside of that I don't see a necessity for new stuff.

I'd be more interested in fixing the Repentia. Personally, I'd give the squad just two handed weapons (+2S or whatever) and have a "X models can have Eviscerators" rule to balance the cost of the unit. Maybe FNP and they aren't nearly such a vulnerable squad, and not as expensive.

Obviously, Terminator armor for Sisters is against the fluff, and I think giving them a "sorta" terminator armor would be against the fluff too, just in terms of what the Imperium can produce.

SabrX
04-04-2011, 00:37
Artificer Armour while maintaining Spirit of the Martyr. A squad of 2++ heck yeah! Take that silly Storm Shields :D.

Col. Tartleton
04-04-2011, 00:57
I think 5+ Armor with upgrades for 4+ Armor and 6+ Invulnerable saves works better. It can still be powered, that will justify their S3 and T3. :)

Also their bolters should be Range 12" Strength 3 Ap6 Heavy 2 because they're awful markswomen their guns are of smaller caliber, and they can barely lift them...

MajorWesJanson
04-04-2011, 01:10
I think 5+ Armor with upgrades for 4+ Armor and 6+ Invulnerable saves works better. It can still be powered, that will justify their S3 and T3. :)

Also their bolters should be Range 12" Strength 3 Ap6 Heavy 2 because they're awful markswomen their guns are of smaller caliber, and they can barely lift them...

That's horrible! :D:shifty:

I'd like to see Celestians and cannonesses have the option for artificer armor (not standard) with the mantle giving eternal warrior and an invul save.

Perfect Organism
04-04-2011, 11:16
I think that giving 3+ saves for sororitas power armour is already kind of pushing it. It doesn't look nearly as protective as astares armour. In order to justify it you either need to say that it's better crafted than the stuff the marines get and/or only just heavy enough to qualify for 3+. Which in turn means that upgrading the quality or thickness of the armour is unlikely to push it into the realm of 2+ saves without a massive change in visual style.

Given that sisters already have an awful lot of room for cool units just working from existing material and have the potential to be a force which mixes light and heavy infantry, which makes them more distinct in playstyle to marines, I'd say that 2+ sisters would be going in the wrong direction.

eldargal
04-04-2011, 11:24
I think dropping it to 4+ is utterly absurd. It is power armour, it is 3+. They don't get all the extra stats SM get, they aren't MEQ. The SoB are the militant wing of the largest and wealthiest institution in the Imperium, they aren't a bunch of twits in carapace armour. Not to mention it woudl invalidate every SoB model currently out there. So it won't happen, thank god.

By all means give them a 2+ or 4++ unit but not both, they don't need terminators. As it is I would prefer to keep SoB 3+ accross the board.

Lord Damocles
04-04-2011, 11:33
I think that giving 3+ saves for sororitas power armour is already kind of pushing it.
You realise that some chains give the same protection as fully enclosed Carapace Armour (Repentia vs. Storm Troopers)? Or a bikini gives the same protection as hardened chitin (Wytches vs. Gaunts)? Or sheer manliness gives the same protection as full body armour (Catachnas vs. Cadians)?

Santtu
04-04-2011, 11:41
If they got new armour it would be lingerie incorporating a power field.
I can get behind that.

But seriously, at most an artificer armour upgrade for Celestians, anything else is too much. Even Canoness doesn't get artificer armour as standard (at least now).

Symrivven
04-04-2011, 14:54
Artificer armour would be nice and imo still characterful as an HQ option and maybe one elite/fast attack squad.

Terminator(like) armour could possibly work as some kind of Heavy support non cc unit, its not that they need it but I wouldn't be appalled if GW did it.

Sai-Lauren
04-04-2011, 15:04
Artificer armour, yes. Could be justified as the suits being ancient relics, one off pieces donated by pious industrialists and so on.

Terminator armour, no - they don't have the links to the Adeptus Mechanicus or their own forges to manufacture it, it's taking them too close to a formal military organisation for Imperial government bodies to allow, and the cost would be more than the collection plate would be able to cover.

Navar
04-04-2011, 16:32
I think that terminator armor doesn't go with the "mission" of the SoB in terms of Fluff. They are a force that has been designed with a mission in mind. Mostly they are hunting down rogue psykers, or spreading the faith of the emperor with fire. Mostly in the fluff their opponents are going to be untrained psykers or masses of civilians. This is why they have such a strong use of flame weapons as they are VERY effective versus unarmored civilians.

If they face any forces that they cannot handle then the PDF and the Marine Corps are there to back them up.

Blurring that line weakens them as an army and make them just "Marines with boobs" and I don't think that anyone really wants that.

Shamana
04-04-2011, 16:52
I think artificer armor on the greatest heroines of the order - upgrade for celestians and HQs - can work and make for some stunningly gorgeous models. Terminator armor, though, I'd rather not see. While there are precedents for humans wearing it in the Inquisition, Sisters aren't supposed to get into that kind of fights. Plus, from a simply aesthetical point it doesn't work all that well imo. Better give them an option for gear that gives a weak invulnerable save, like a watered down rosarius.

dragonet111
04-04-2011, 17:08
Plus they don't need terminators armour when they already have their faith and the blessing of the Emperor ;)

The Emperor protects




PS I'm so sorry I just couldn't resist I love those silly jokes.

Azzy
04-04-2011, 17:33
Artificer Armor? Maybe as an upgrade for Canonesses/Palantines and for a Celestian "honor guard". Terminator armor... hell no!

Aluinn
04-04-2011, 18:16
You realise that some chains give the same protection as fully enclosed Carapace Armour (Repentia vs. Storm Troopers)? Or a bikini gives the same protection as hardened chitin (Wytches vs. Gaunts)? Or sheer manliness gives the same protection as full body armour (Catachnas vs. Cadians)?

To be fair, roughly half of a Wych's body actually is covered in armor, which means that their save being half as effective as the Kabalites', who are entirely covered and have a 5+, makes perfect sense.

There certainly still is no explanation for Repentia having a 4+; it absolutely should have been that they got Feel no Pain but no armor save, instead. Catachans ... will never make sense. I've heard tell their wifebeaters are made of some highly advanced protective material, but who can say?

OTOH, Artificer armor is just power armor with more bling on it (and sometimes not even that!) visually, and no one complains about that making any sense, either. Somehow the Advanced Materials (tm) handwave works perfectly well for Space Marines, but not for anyone else, who must have burlier-looking armor to claim a higher save, no exceptions.

As far as Sisters getting any 2+ save units, I'd agree that artificer armor for Celestians is the only way it would fit, though. I really wouldn't want to see them get "Terminator armor" (even if they'd probably call it something else); anything that makes them more like Marines is a bad idea, in my book.

There is ample room for them to gain some flat invulnerable saves via revised Acts of Faith, though, as opposed to turning their armor save into an invulnerable, and that'd be fine with me.

AlexHolker
04-04-2011, 20:40
Among the other reasons the Sisters shouldn't get Terminators is their lack of strategic mobility. Anything that can't keep up with the Rhinos and can't hitch a lift is going to have a long walk from a safe LZ to the front lines.

Skyros
04-04-2011, 22:05
Artificier, sure, for elite units like Celestians, HQ maybe. Terminator, no.

Sisters aren't genetically engineered super soldiers, don't see how they could possibly operate TA.

ShodansOwn
04-04-2011, 22:44
Sisters aren't genetically engineered super soldiers, don't see how they could possibly operate TA.

I'm reading The First Heretic right now, and there is a character who is a sub-marine, sorta-enhanced human who wears TA. He is basically just a guy who received some SM enhancements way too late in life, and I dont think he has many of the suit-interface body mods.

Wolf Lord Balrog
04-04-2011, 22:47
Artificier, sure, for elite units like Celestians, HQ maybe. Terminator, no.

Sisters aren't genetically engineered super soldiers, don't see how they could possibly operate TA.

Also there are Inquisitors that aren't heavily modified that wear terminator armor.

Not saying I'm in favor of it for Sisters, just pointing out the inconsistency. :)

Skyros
05-04-2011, 02:06
Well, I could see the odd remarkable inquisitor finding a cut down suit that doesn't require super soldier status to operate, but not everyone in the SoB list.

Also, I don't think it would fit them particularly well. Are they going to walk? If not, you're going to have to add landraiders to the list. And suddenly a lot of what makes sisters different from normal marines starts disappearing.

No-One
05-04-2011, 02:20
i'd definitely go for sisters in Artificer armor, but i could only mainly see that on Celestians, it would fit their fluff and such

as for the terminator armor, not to step on toes, but i vaguely recall reading somewhere that the Sisters of Silence have fielded TDA armored Sisters before, and have the suits, so... its not entirely out-of-fluff for Sisters to wear terminator armor

mind you, i might be wrong on this, but i'm pretty sure i remember reading this somewhere or another

Haravikk
05-04-2011, 11:07
I don't think Terminator armour would suit sisters at all, and I don't think they should need anything too gimmicky added to their ranks. Artificier armour on Celestians would be cool, particularly if it was suitably ornate to match.

It'd be nice to see Immolators with heavier front armour for getting regular sisters to the front more easily. But over the top armour isn't really their style, meltaguns and flamers will do just as well :)

AlexHolker
05-04-2011, 11:39
It'd be nice to see Immolators with heavier front armour for getting regular sisters to the front more easily.
I'd give the heavier armour to the Repressor instead - the riot plow is an easy explanation for why it's harder to kill.

MadDoc
05-04-2011, 12:02
At most I would say Artificer armour on Adepta Sororitas Heroines and Celestian retinues. No Terminator armour, it just wouldn't work for the army.

As for the following...

as for the terminator armor, not to step on toes, but i vaguely recall reading somewhere that the Sisters of Silence have fielded TDA armored Sisters before, and have the suits, so... its not entirely out-of-fluff for Sisters to wear terminator armor

mind you, i might be wrong on this, but i'm pretty sure i remember reading this somewhere or another
I've never read this anywhere, any idea at all where you read it?

It isn't even on Lexicanum (which now has a well researched and referenced article for the Sister of Silence), which I would've thought was the most likely source for dubious sounding info like that.

Nasha
05-04-2011, 13:57
Yeah...its called a Chastity Belt...

eldargal
05-04-2011, 14:19
Pity the SoB don't take oaths of chastity.

Sister_Sin
05-04-2011, 14:46
Hmmm. I will go through the Horus Heresy collected volume and see if there's anything in there to do with Sisters of Silence using TDA. I do not recall it off hand but you never know what might be in there.

Even so, it doesn't feel right to me personally to have TDA type armor with Sororitas.

I would love to see Palatines, Canoness, and Celestians have access to Artificer Armor as an upgrade though.

Sister Sin

Xandros
05-04-2011, 19:43
They may also get a monstrous creature called Anointed Penitent Sister armed with nunchucks.

dragonet111
05-04-2011, 19:56
They may also get a monstrous creature called Anointed Penitent Sister armed with nunchucks.

Yes Sister Chuck Norrissette

Xandros
05-04-2011, 20:17
Oh, should name a space marine Brother Chuck...

ghost21
05-04-2011, 20:26
i to believe no to terminators (and sister sin was the first sister officially named in fluff as i remember and thanks for reminding me sister sin)

ive heard some odd things for sisters though , but i do think sisters would fight in cc just with pistols though

Skyros
05-04-2011, 22:00
I'd give the heavier armour to the Repressor instead - the riot plow is an easy explanation for why it's harder to kill.

I'd love to see the repressor replace the standard rhino for sisters lists. There's really not all that much wrong with sisters themselves. Seraphim, exorcists, immolators, normal sisters are all solid.

Celestians are supposed to be good at melee but are in fact terrible at it. No one takes retributors, but that's a function of mech vs foot more than anything. Dominions are a bit pricy. Acts of faith work well.

Clean up all the useless wargear items and work on their vehicles and that's really all they need, IMO.

The vast bulk of the work needs to be on the ecclesiarchy units: repentia (horrible) priests (overcosted) and penitent engines (great models, bad rules).

No-One
05-04-2011, 22:44
Hmmm. I will go through the Horus Heresy collected volume and see if there's anything in there to do with Sisters of Silence using TDA. I do not recall it off hand but you never know what might be in there.

Even so, it doesn't feel right to me personally to have TDA type armor with Sororitas.

I would love to see Palatines, Canoness, and Celestians have access to Artificer Armor as an upgrade though.

Sister Sin

as i said i'm not positive i saw it, but i vaguely remember seeing something in either one of the HH Collected books or possibly in the HH collectible card game, one of the cards featured a Termi armored SoS, if i'm not mistaken, but i might be remembering incorrectly so noone hold me to this as something fact

MadDoc
06-04-2011, 01:02
as i said i'm not positive i saw it, but i vaguely remember seeing something in either one of the HH Collected books or possibly in the HH collectible card game, one of the cards featured a Termi armored SoS, if i'm not mistaken, but i might be remembering incorrectly so noone hold me to this as something fact

My guess would be that you're referring to Raven's Claw Assault squad pictured in heavy power armour here (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/d/df/Raven%27sClawAssaultSquad.png), as compared to Heresy/Pre-Heresy era Tactical Dreadnought suits pictured here (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/1/10/Companions_of_Custodian_Guard.jpg), here (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/8/82/Custodes_terminators.jpg) and here (http://www.franz-vohwinkel.com/images/content/justaerin.jpg).

Achaylus72
06-04-2011, 01:16
For SoB i think Articifer Armour is the way to go.

Also i think that the SoB's should get the full range of options that any other Chapter gets.

But SoB are not and never will be a Female Space Marine Chapter, it is against GW policy to allow such whimsies.

Sister_Sin
06-04-2011, 01:29
Yes, Sister Sin was in the back of the Rogue Trader book. She had power armor, a nun's headgear, rebreather, a bolter, and was gunning down Brother Vermilion of the Rainbow Warriors.

I too think Sisters really only need some tweaks here and there, mostly in the vehicle and cost departments. But I really would love to see a plastic Repressor for them and of course the artificer armor under discussion. The Repentias...well, the less said about them the better, thanks. ;)

Sister Sin

Vaktathi
06-04-2011, 07:44
As...appealing as it is, It'd also be interesting to see Sisters with power armor that looks like something other than a metal corset with knockers stuck on. They needn't be Space Marine copies, but something that looks a little less...ornamental would be nice personally.

MadDoc
06-04-2011, 08:54
As...appealing as it is, It'd also be interesting to see Sisters with power armor that looks like something other than a metal corset with knockers stuck on. They needn't be Space Marine copies, but something that looks a little less...ornamental would be nice personally.

Something like the Sisters of Silence assault squad Raven's Claw (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/d/df/Raven%27sClawAssaultSquad.png) that I posted earlier? Or were you thinking heavier still?

Hendarion
06-04-2011, 09:53
Less ornamental? I think GW minis are too flat and need all way more ornaments on armour-plates.

Anyway, on the original topic's question: No, I don't think they need a 2+ armour. Not every damn army out there should have that option. That would be boring imo.

From a fluff-perspective? Yea, it might be fluffy. Although... if the Imperium needs highly resilent troops, they'd call Space Marines in.
From a game-design-perspective? No, absolutely not.

daboarder
06-04-2011, 09:54
hmmm I'd live to see a new variant of armour I think. Something that would exemplify what sisters are about the way that terminators are for marines.
I tried coming up with something a while ago myself but it just ended up being terminator armour for all intents and purposes.

how about am armour that gave either a 3+ or 2+ armour save and access to the rule from the nid codex that allows models to run AND shoot.

Another Idea would be to give them access to both artificer and SS's, then make Sarissa's a unit upgrade for celestians that grants an additional attack. that kind of equipment on celestians would fit sisters quite well without stepping on terminator toes.

In fact I quite like the idea myself.
EDIT: yeah I agree hendarion the run shoot is out of place

edit: on a side note it irks me a little bit when people, including myself, slide into the notion that the Imperium is run like a modern day government. The Imperium's factions are as divided against each other as they are against external threats. Above hendarion mentions that marines fill the role of heavy infantry in the imperial armies. Thats correct but due to their autonomous nature and the lack of easy communication plus plain old pride marines are probably only ccalled in by the ecclesiarchy 10-15% of the time. The rest of the time it is the SoB that serves as their heavy shock troops.

Hendarion
06-04-2011, 09:56
how about am armour that gave either a 3+ or 2+ armour save and access to the rule from the nid codex that allows models to run AND shoot.
Err... nope. Speed is the major attribute of other armies and there it should stay.

AlexHolker
06-04-2011, 10:05
how about am armour that gave either a 3+ or 2+ armour save and access to the rule from the nid codex that allows models to run AND shoot.
If I was tasked with coming up with a new Power Armour+ for the Sisters, I'd make it still a 3+ save that can ride in a Rhino chassis vehicle, but makes the user Relentless. It doesn't make them faster, but it does make them more capable of advancing and still putting down bolter fire.

Skyros
06-04-2011, 17:07
As...appealing as it is, It'd also be interesting to see Sisters with power armor that looks like something other than a metal corset with knockers stuck on. They needn't be Space Marine copies, but something that looks a little less...ornamental would be nice personally.

I like the ornate/ornamental/less blocky look.

I wish they'd ramp it up even more.

I'm not looking for marines with long hair.

Vaktathi
06-04-2011, 17:42
I'm not saying that the Sisters need look like Space Marines or need be less detailed, rather that they look like they are wearing actual armor, not a metal corset with shoulderpads.

Magelite
06-04-2011, 19:43
if the sisters got a heavily armoured infantry unit, there's no reason it would actually have to be sisters; It could be simply an ecclesiarchy-aligned unit like the arco-flagellants (if they'll still have them.) Perhaps something similar to mechanicus praetorians, like mini-penitent engines, for example. Or maybe Ogryn sisters :evilgrin:

Haravikk
07-04-2011, 11:47
I'd give the heavier armour to the Repressor instead - the riot plow is an easy explanation for why it's harder to kill.
Not sure why an explanation is needed? Annihilators have armour 13 but aren't any more heavily armoured than a regular Rhino, only really Vindicators can explain the improved armour.

Most Immolators can however be bedecked in holy icons etc.


For fixing Retributors... I actually quite like using them (though still only have a counts-as squad, as I'm still very slowly building up the squads that I have). I have just the one squad with two heavy bolters and two multi-meltas, it's expensive but with an Immolator I can put it wherever I want without too much trouble, then in the next turn start unleashing hell.
They'd be even better if they could take Heavy Flamers, as a unit with four Assault 1 Heavy Flamers would be pretty terrifying!

Another possibility could be to give the squad the option of targeters (or include them by default), or give them a kind of variable weapons, so that they can fire a Multi-Melta as either its regular Heavy 1, or as a Meltagun (firing just the one barrel?), likewise the Heavy Bolter could be fired as Assault 2 or something, so they're not useless while moving.

Aluinn
07-04-2011, 12:08
I'm not saying that the Sisters need look like Space Marines or need be less detailed, rather that they look like they are wearing actual armor, not a metal corset with shoulderpads.

I agree. You can have relatively shapely armor without sticking stupid boob-cups on it, which make no sense anyway--witness any real armor actually intended for protection that has been/is made for women.

In other words, yes, they should look like women, because they are, but it's a major detriment to the current minis, IMO, that they're so overly sexualized. I can see some justification for that on Slaanesh and possibly Dark Eldar minis, but not Sisters, any more than Space Marine armor should emphasize their ... assets. High-heeled boots also should go away and never come back.

Sisters are supposed to be badass, no-nonsense fighters (except when it comes to their religion, though Acts of Faith that actually work suggest that isn't really nonsense in their case either), and the models should reflect that.

Symrivven
07-04-2011, 12:38
Sisters are supposed to be badass, no-nonsense fighters (except when it comes to their religion, though Acts of Faith that actually work suggest that isn't really nonsense in their case either), and the models should reflect that.

Everyone has a different perception of what 40K is but, but for me most evidence points at the idea that what's practical and logical is of little value in 40K. What looks cool/over the top is far more important.

While in reality a badass souldier probably has the most practical armour a long range weapon to take out enemies with minimal risk and a healthy dose of cammo. In 40k you are badass if your armour looks cool, have weapons that are generally to big and ornate to use, and show up on the battlefield in the most striking colours.

Certainly sometimes they try to rationalize the illogic aspects but that often comes after they decided that something is cool and they want to use it anyway.

Obrimos
07-04-2011, 13:03
Well put, Symrivven!

Also, sex sells. That is a fact. If sisters had no sexualized armour, maybe only half the people would buy them. 40k is a science fantasy game, it's not supposed to be realistic or pragmatic.

Thus, it is essential that a heavier armour would still convey the same amount of sexiness, and that is hardly possible concerning the current ideal of beauty in western culture.
A Terminator equivalent would have boobs bigger and legs thicker than the SoB's head. I would be completely out of proportion. And it would be hard to imagine with high heels, too.

Concerning armour...IMO the basic SoB armour is only worth a 4+ save. Compared to the Dire Avengers armour, there is hardly any difference.
So, yeah, Celestians may have mastercrafted armour all around for a 3+ save.
No problem. :)

If I interpret the word armour in its broadest sense, I would also propose the induction of the Landraider Redeemer into the army. No other variants however.

eldargal
07-04-2011, 15:47
Lets not get started on what female armour should or should not look like. Apart from the fact modern armies are beginning to produce female shaped body armour because its actually unsafe for women to wear male shapd body armour, it is entirely irrelevent.

andrewm9
07-04-2011, 15:59
When I was developing a Sisters fandex I basically developed this idea. Basically you have certain units or characters that have whT i called blessed armor. Essentially you have artificer armor especially blessed and consecrated to give 2+ armor save and a 6+ invuln save. Of course when I did the fandex I modified Spirit of the Martyr quite a bit as having a unti fo 2+ invuln save poeple woudl have been too much.

I didn't want a rehash of terminator armor and a 6+ invuln akin to how ghostplate works out was a step in teh rigth direction. Essentially it would look like regular Sisters armor with a considerable amount of adornment and probably a cape for the Canoness or Palatine along with the Celestian Superior.

Skyros
07-04-2011, 17:36
In other words, yes, they should look like women, because they are, but it's a major detriment to the current minis, IMO, that they're so overly sexualized.

I couldn't disagree more. One of the reasons I like the SoB is that they are entirely immune from the silly oversexualization. Instead of wearing a chainmail bikini and nothing else, they are clad head to toe in the same power armor that everyone else wears, with only extremely minor and subtle modifications for being women. They have some extra gothic decorations to go with the church theme, and that's about it.

They aren't wearing high heeled boots, either. Are you confusing them with the death cult assassins? If you filed down the breastplate down a tad on one of the helmeted figures, would there be any indication at all it was a female instead of a male? No. The cups on the front of the armor are far form being oversized. I'd say they are about right and couldn't possibly be any smaller without looking hilarious. They are already smaller than the figures hands!

In my opinion, SoB are one of the best examples of female armor done right: it covers them entirely, looks functional, and isn't oddly distorted in unrealistic ways (at least, no more so than all the rest of 40k). If it's a helmeted figure, you really have to look closely from the tabletop to notice the differences. That's what I want.

Bubble Ghost
07-04-2011, 18:00
I'd just like to chip in, a bit late, with the fact that I love the idea that a 3+ save is somehow not "heavy armour". Kind of betrays where the metagame is at.

Also, Sororitas power armour looks fine. It's not sexualised, it just emphasises the femininity and physique of the wearers, while still looking pretty severe in a lot of ways. This emphasising of an ideal of physique in order to appear impressive is perfectly in keeping with real life - and besides, you can hardly argue that there's no precedent for form being as important as function in the rest of Imperial design, especially as regards the Ecclesiarchy. It's a different design ethos from that of Space Marine power armour, sure, but Space Marine armour is about the most abnormally undecorative thing in the Imperium - if anything, in context, it's marine armour that makes no sense.

And if it really bothers you, there's nothing stopping you fielding an army of Space Marine models and saying there are women inside.:D

Aluinn
07-04-2011, 21:05
Hey, now, I'm not saying I think they look like strippers, or something. It's just that the models, to me, really thrust the boobs in your face, as much an inch-tall miniature can, anyway. It looks, well, like they're wearing a metal bra on the outside of their armor. It's more or less fine with me on Eldar miniatures because their armor is supposed to be very form-fitting, but Sisters' armor is heavy metal plates, which must also have some thick padding beneath them, which means they'd have to go to great lengths to weld metal breasts onto the outside of the plates, without them actually being filled by anything.

I guess to each their own, though. I'm not making the case that Warhammer 40K should be "realistic", either. It's just that the non-boobed armor seems more on the side of realism, which is a minor additional nudge in favor of it if a change were already being considered on the grounds that the models are just generally a bit too sexified.

Plainly there are plenty of people who don't see them that way, though, and that's fine. They're not bad models. I do like them in most ways.

Bubble Ghost
07-04-2011, 21:29
You're right up to a point - they're definitely intended to appear aesthetically elegant in a way that marines aren't, and I suppose you could cobble together case for that being patronising to women if you wanted to. But then you'd be unintentionally wading into a deeper and hugely contentious issue that's at the very core of feminism and depictions of women in media.

I think that two things we can reasonably say are that you'd have to question the point of the miniatures' existence if they weren't clearly feminine, and that the minis don't really go any further than is appropriate down that line. And on a personal note, I think they actually fit very well into the game's aesthetic - to tone it down for reasons of sensibility would seem like bowdlerising.

Vaktathi
08-04-2011, 01:46
It's not so much out of offended sensibilities really (believe me, I'm not one to complain about such things...:p) but rather the armor in many ways just seems too much like iron corsets with awkwardly (but prominently) placed knockers stuck on. It looks, in some ways at least, somewhat...forced. It might look better if they weren't so awkwardly positioned and were done more like the Dark Eldar and Banshees.

MadDoc
08-04-2011, 03:30
If I interpret the word armour in its broadest sense, I would also propose the induction of the Landraider Redeemer into the army. No other variants however.
So you'd have them openly violating an Imperial decree (as in from the Emperor himself not the High Lords) and make them heretics? :eyebrows:

The Sisters should not have Land Raiders of any type, the background is quite clear, the Emperor issued a decree restricting Land Raiders to the Astartes, just because Inquisitors (and possibly the Mechanicus) regularly violate the decree that doesn't mean the ultra faithfully Sororitas will (if anything I'd think they'd be horrified at the very idea of violating a standing Imperial decree).

Milkshaker
08-04-2011, 05:37
Well, what I'd love to see is something akin to crisis suits, that all come with a heavy flamer as a standard and a close combat weapon of some kind. There is some great potential in that kind of mini, like a gothic mini titan or something.

MadDoc
08-04-2011, 07:53
Well, what I'd love to see is something akin to crisis suits, that all come with a heavy flamer as a standard and a close combat weapon of some kind. There is some great potential in that kind of mini, like a gothic mini titan or something.

So a mini Dreadknight...

Haravikk
08-04-2011, 09:26
Well, what I'd love to see is something akin to crisis suits, that all come with a heavy flamer as a standard and a close combat weapon of some kind. There is some great potential in that kind of mini, like a gothic mini titan or something.
They're called Penitent Engines.


As for style of armour, I really like the current styling, it's just the faces that are difficult as they have to be painted to try and counteract how angular and manly they look.

If they can release a plastic kit with the same style of armour, and better heads (or just all helmets) then they'll be perfect.


On the issue of heavy armour, Celestians could also have regular (but very ornate) power armour and cloaks of Saint Aspira as standard, which aside from looking awesome would also give that 2+ save, beyond that they don't need any more except some new special rules so that they're actually good in combat.