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Hashulaman
07-04-2011, 09:06
I don't know if this question fits in here, but why do you think there is no 40k version of a fear test? I'm referring to a general Big Rule Book version, not some army specific rule where an army causes fear(if one exists) I'd include Terror but thats just a panic check now, which 40k does have. You would think facing Eldritch Abominations, Giant bugs, and metallic undead would be unnerving to at least guardsmen. I understand Space marines not getting afraid, but what would scare them anyways? :shifty: The Fearless rule would be so much more valueble if there were such rules.


As far as I know, there is no universal Frenzy rule either, I know only panic and hatred are represented, but I don't know of any other psycology rule. Hatred is just "preferred enemy" and is every round though. Maybe Furious Charge could be psycology related, but I don't know about that. Just because Furious is in the name, doesn't mean it is a pyschology thing.

chromedog
07-04-2011, 09:10
There WAS, but it disappeared with 2nd edition's move stat, psych phase and to-hit and armour save modifiers.
This marked the turning point when WHFB and 40k stopped being the 'same game' in different settings.

Hashulaman
07-04-2011, 09:11
Kind of a dumb idea......are they clearly expecting all armies to have nerves of steel? They might as well change the Fearless rule.

"Oh look, a Daemon Prince is charging these Conscripts/guardians/Fire Warriors. They are not in the least bit afraid that this most unholy of warp monstrosities will deal them the most horrid death imaginable, and possibly torture their souls for an eternity."

ShodansOwn
07-04-2011, 09:27
Previous versions of the Tyranid codexes had the monstrous creatures so terrifying that you had to pass a morale check to assault them. I think the morale check in general covers a pretty broad range of battlefield psychology. You've got pinning, where they're completely unwilling to leave their current position. You have soldiers retreating after watching their friends slaughtered.

I know what you're getting at but the Ld stat pretty much covers how courageous soldiers are. And personally, I think it does a fairly complete job.

You can explain why soldiers will stand their ground in the face of death however it makes sense for your army. Sense of duty, camaraderie, fear of alternatives, training, death-wish maniacs, unrealistic optimism, whaaaatever. Once stuff starts happening TO them, you start rolling Ld.
Remember: the 40K world is a HORRIFYING universe...virtually everyone is tougher there than us here on 2011 Earth.

Lord Damocles
07-04-2011, 09:30
Because half the armies have a rule called 'And they shall know no fear' :shifty:

Hashulaman
07-04-2011, 09:34
@ShodansOwn

I don't know, that seems like a pretty big example of willingness to suspend disbelief there. I still think that they have some pretty big holes in that section of the rules. Plus I think most peopl agree a Commisar's bolt pistol is a better end than being scared to death. At least the commisars aim for the head, Instant death(no pun intended). Against the monsters that would cause fear, you have no idea what theyd do to you. Only that it is worse than a conventional death in "normal combat" If such a thing exists in 40k

@Lord Damocles

Yet another reason for GW to do it, the Marines immunity to such rules would make more people buy them

theJ
07-04-2011, 09:38
Because the guard are the only ones it would apply to...?

Seriously, ALL the armies in 40K are pretty much fearless, the exception being the guard, who are "merely" the fantasy equivalent of rerollable LD10 + stubborn.

Thanatos_elNyx
07-04-2011, 09:41
They used to have a Fearsome rule.

And Furious Charge is more-or-less a universal Frenzy rule.


Kind of a dumb idea......are they clearly expecting all armies to have nerves of steel? They might as well change the Fearless rule.

"Oh look, a Daemon Prince is charging these Conscripts/guardians/Fire Warriors. They are not in the least bit afraid that this most unholy of warp monstrosities will deal them the most horrid death imaginable, and possibly torture their souls for an eternity."

Actually I charged a Daemon Prince into a mob of Guardsmen. A didn't look before I leapt situation because he had 4 hidden power weapons in teh squad and they chopped him up good.

There is something really wrong with the game where Guardsmen are eager to get charged by some of the biggest scariest beasties in the universe.

Hashulaman
07-04-2011, 09:41
I don't see Tau and Eldar Guardians being the pillars of couarge, but I do see where your argument has merit. It's probably pointless to look for something that makes sense in 40k where they have "guns that send you straight to Hel"l.(bonus points if you know where that is from.)

@Thanatos, I dont' think you have a flee option when charged. You have to stand up to whatever charges you. Plus it kind of cheapens the idea of marines having no fear if there is nothing to cause fear that they would not know. Being immune to having your unit cut down in a pursuit is not the best way to represent that rule, it was better when they automatically passed all morale checks but they might as well have been fearless then.(I dont know the entirety of Loyalist rules as I play CSM, so don't flame me should I be wrong.)

Obrimos
07-04-2011, 11:06
In the 3.5 Chaos Codex there was a demonic gift called "demonic visage" that would reduce enemy morale in melee situations. Enemy morale would drop by one for fighting certain demons and by two when fighting a demonic MC.

However this applies only when the melee has already started. In general, ranged psychological effects like terror are nonexistant in 40k.

40k is a game where armies tend to fight to the last man. You won't see a unit destroyed by psychology alone there. You will have to shoot them all (or hack 'em to pieces).

MarcoSkoll
07-04-2011, 11:29
"Oh look, a Daemon Prince is charging these Conscripts/guardians/Fire Warriors. They are not in the least bit afraid that this most unholy of warp monstrosities will deal them the most horrid death imaginable, and possibly torture their souls for an eternity."
Space Marines: Doesn't afraid of anything.

Imperial guard: When there's something scary at the front - put something even scarier at the back. (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zv6UdKQeJzM/TJ_nstNn1oI/AAAAAAAABBI/TgL_le88tjg/s1600/40kCommissars.jpg)
Also, the Imperium generally deny the existence of daemons ("No mate, they're Xenos. Funny Xenos that appear in a cloud of black smoke and the smell of sulphur."), so an average guardsman wouldn't actually know what it was.

Tau: Don't find daemons all that scary, not having much of a soul to speak of. Daemons can't see them very well, they're not very affected by psychic powers (fluff wise, not rules wise, of course).

Orkses: ERE WE GO!!!! WAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

Tyranids: An individual "Bug" is a triviality to the hive mind. There's no concept of fear of death.

Necrons: Metal, will be reborn, and don't have a soul.

To be honest, the only race I can think of that would really qualify for it (vs. a Daemon) are Eldar, and we don't want to give the girly Elf players* anything else to whine about, do we?
*Note: I am one of the girly Elf players.

ShodansOwn
07-04-2011, 11:37
@ShodansOwn

I don't know, that seems like a pretty big example of willingness to suspend disbelief there.

Uhhh...what kind of a game are we playing? Far-future, super-genetically enhanced demi-gods battling all manner of alien and daemonic creatures. In space. With little plastic models. And dice. I think my suspension of disbelief system is working at full capacity.

What exactly are you proposing? When would it be appropriate to take these test? What are the effects? How is this different from the current system?

The Marshel
07-04-2011, 14:31
frankly a fear test would be redundant. everything is either fearless, stubborn or such high ld it doesn't matter. if it doesnt fall into those categories, it wouldn't last long against a beastie that could reasonably cause fear anyway, so you wouldn't try to charge such beastie in the first place.

IcedCrow
07-04-2011, 15:13
Because half the armies have a rule called 'And they shall know no fear' :shifty:

Half? Nine armies out of ten that I face have this rule.

Notanoob
07-04-2011, 15:57
I'd rather we have more Fantasy style Ld check stuff, as the Ld stat means so little now. I don't care if the background has them as fearless, game rules aren't a perfect adaptation of this. Drop some of those Ld ignoring rules, make them harder to get, more expensive, and make us test more so that the Ld stat actually means something please.

Charistoph
07-04-2011, 16:53
For Guardsmen, it's the "Brown Pants Rule". After all, they don't shoot the thing while it's charging, do they?