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Myrmidon616
07-04-2011, 19:20
The latest batch of new army books all seem to feature the introduction of big monsters:

necro/warsphinx for the TK
Aarachnarok for O&G
Hell Pit Abomination for Skaven

as well as loads of scary sounding things for Beastmen that I'm ignorant of.
edit: not to mention the engine of the gods for Lizardmen

What do people think of this trend? Every single what's new today or WD article seems to mention fielding 3 of them, which perturbs me as it comes across as GW wanting to go crazy rather than making something balanced.

IcedCrow
07-04-2011, 19:25
from a business point of view its genius.

EmperorNorton
07-04-2011, 19:32
I like big monsters.
I don't like each and every army being reinforced after the same pattern.

brightblade
07-04-2011, 19:33
love it.

All I have to work out now is how to kill a 5 wound, toughness 8 sphynx that has heroic killing blow with wood elves?

Or any other army for that matter?

Ideas?

I think I will just have to wait until wood elves get their big beastie.

Monsters for all! (given enough time.) :)

El_Wacko01
07-04-2011, 19:33
I guess taking big guns is looking rather tasty atm :P

gw only says to take 3 because you can take 3, if you ask me I would only take one monster, though I used to run a list with 2 hydras (a). Nowadays it's too unbalanced with more than one.

Caitsidhe
07-04-2011, 19:38
Eh. Big monsters are a single sculpt for them, don't really use that much plastic, and given the stats they are releasing are MUST HAVE or you lose models. I expect the trend to continue.

Jack of Blades
07-04-2011, 19:40
All I have to work out now is how to kill a 5 wound, toughness 8 sphynx that has heroic killing blow with wood elves?

Or any other army for that matter?

Ideas?

I'd shoot it, unless it has a really good armour save - then you'll have to shoot it more :) with the new a 6 always wounds, T8 isn't anywhere near as over the top as it would've been in 7th edition. It just means the thing is more resilient against stuff like characters and other things with relatively few attacks at ~s7 and below.

Malorian
07-04-2011, 19:42
It's especially deadly when you combine with cheap troops to rank up to take away steadfast.


Abom+slaves
Arachnarok+goblins
Sphinx+4 point skeletons

I don't mind the monsters but people shuold keep in mind that are doing it at the same time as cheap troops.

brightblade
07-04-2011, 19:45
I'd shoot it, unless it has a really good armour save - then you'll have to shoot it more :) with the new a 6 always wounds, T8 isn't anywhere near as over the top as it would've been in 7th edition. It just means the thing is more resilient against stuff like characters and other things with relatively few attacks at ~s7 and below.

Yup, I just didn't fancy changing my orc army to be more shooty. Guess i will be ok with my big spider....Or does that die to heroic killing blow? ;)

Leogun_91
07-04-2011, 19:57
love it.

All I have to work out now is how to kill a 5 wound, toughness 8 sphynx that has heroic killing blow with wood elves?

Or any other army for that matter?

Ideas?Either shoot a lot or use some not too squishy skirmishers in a wood and tarpit it with their auto steadfast (until they are dead) if needed you can even charge and then get the forest to make them steadfast. It's not easy and they desperately need a new book but a 5 wound tougness 8 sphynx can defenitively be brought down by the woodies or just kept from doing the fun things even if it will be hard.

And if all else fails against undead, do a desperate all-or-nothing attack against the Hierophant/general (depending on the type of undead), once in a while it pays off.



Yup, I just didn't fancy changing my orc army to be more shooty. Guess i will be ok with my big spider....Or does that die to heroic killing blow? ;)First you talked about woodelfs and they should defenitively shoot it. With Orcs sheer mass of attacks should do, if you have blackorcs you could still wound on 5+ but sheer mass of attacks is probably better (though an orc warboss with the giant blade will wound it on 3+ the first round of combat and Grimgor would hurt it a lot too).

snottlebocket
07-04-2011, 22:11
I like a liberal sprinkling of monsters. I was pretty sad when warhammer moved away from fantastic beasts for a while.

Every fantasy army needs at least one strange and wonderful creature if you ask me.

Haravikk
07-04-2011, 22:21
So long as they don't ruin armies that don't really suit them. I mean, Brettonians shouldn't really have anything bigger than what they have, Dwarfs definitely don't need a monster and shouldn't have a gimmicky new war machine either. So long as they can still field cannons, runed grudge throwers and organ guns they deal with anything.

Andy p
07-04-2011, 22:34
I wonder what, for the sake of speculation, kind of big creature the Bretonnians would have? Some sort of obese knight perhaps?

Cragum
07-04-2011, 22:48
I wonder what, for the sake of speculation, kind of big creature the Bretonnians would have? Some sort of obese knight perhaps?

GIANT WOODEN RABBIT... :evilgrin:

Sinnertje
08-04-2011, 00:25
I think this (http://xc0.xanga.com/396d634414c33123857622/w89545553.jpg) is a winner for the Bret monster...

WarhammerNoob4ever
08-04-2011, 01:07
i never understood why for armies like Brets or HE, who have good mounted monsters, that these were never allowed to be Rare choices without characters on them

i mean, Hippogrifs (wow that is so spelled wrong) or dragons are ok as mounts but not free roaming monsters?

It adds something big and scary to the army without having to stretch fluff for it

Just imagine a HE army with their dragon mounts as rare choices..... Id like that a lot (and the points should be about right, since they are balanced enough for adding to a character, give or take)

EarthAndAllStars
08-04-2011, 01:21
This is why Sigmar gave the Empire cannons. (And we have the Stank)

Balerion
08-04-2011, 02:36
I don't really think it's a trend so much as a requirement for the advancement of the game. If you look at 40K similar things are happening too.

Both systems are just at an advanced age where most of the armies have their mainstay/traditional types of units clearly, rigidly locked-in. Yet to keep the business alive GW has to pursue the release of new editions and updates that are expected to actually add something tangible and brand new, rather than just offering tweaks and rebalancing.

Hence, monsters. And 40K's version of monsters, vehicles/walkers/monstrous creatures. They are one of the easier things to incorporate into an extant set of rules, since they generally operate alone on the battlefield and are self-sufficient, and are probably easier to design and produce thanks to the mono-sculpt.

Edit: I guess we're specifically talking about the "big base" monsters in WFB, but it's kind of the same thing. Everything else was already covered in every army, so they had to invent a new size/unit category to keep the armybooks progressing.

TsukeFox
08-04-2011, 03:05
Well it just seems-fair?
Like in a sci-fantasy video RTS- Each side had nukes.
Thankfully so far no monster is alike, albeit some are much much better than others.
So let us embrace the future-here are my hopes:
wood elves: mountain chimera/maybe mounted.
Brits: GIANt wooden rabbit !! (or other mythical french critter)
Ogres: giant elphent thing from lord of the rings
Dwarfs:steam tank+Runes!-I mean why do they not have it now?
Dark elves-Sea Serpent mount/there is a rule for it after all.
Everyone else has a set of large critters?

Voss
08-04-2011, 03:59
i never understood why for armies like Brets or HE, who have good mounted monsters, that these were never allowed to be Rare choices without characters on them

i mean, Hippogrifs (wow that is so spelled wrong) or dragons are ok as mounts but not free roaming monsters?

Actually, yes. Raising and taming a monster as a mount is a heroic feat that emphasizes the virtues of the rider (providing its a noble enough monster, which as an eagle + horse, a Hippogriff is). Having them roam free just scares the peasants (and results in fewer peasants).

The point is, the 'good' armies don't have free roaming monsters, because monsters are bad. Its only when subjected to the will of a powerful individual that they become viable and acceptable. They don't exactly have the dark evil magics to control a wild monster.

Darkmaw
08-04-2011, 04:03
2 of the Warsphynx with their T8 and "Special small template attack" sounds like just the right solution for blocks of steadfast troops. :D

I think double Warsphynx will join the Double Hydra, Double HPA club!!

sulla
08-04-2011, 04:04
The rules for the abomination are a little silly, for the arack, the only funny thing is how they wrote protection for the crew in to it's rules instead of just fixing the cannon hit rules. It'll be interesting to see what they do with the sphinx. Hopefully less than half a page of special rules. Hydras are starting to look fairly tame compared to the newer breed of creatures...

Darkmaw
08-04-2011, 04:07
From the latest article on GW website:

They're both Toughness 8

"The Khemrian Warsphinx is accompanied by four Tomb Guard riding in the Howdah, all of which have the Killing Blow Special Rule. The Warsphinx itself has four attacks at Strength 5, can exchange all its attacks for one Thundercrush Attack. If the attack hits, you get to place a small template over the unit. And then you can Thunderstomp them, just for good measure. "

"The Necrosphinx has the Killing Blow rule and the Decapitating Strike rule. This means that one of its attacks every turn is at Strength 10 with Heroic Killing Blow. This gives the Necrosphinx a good chance of killing enemy monsters outright with a single sweep of his blade. The Necrosphinx can fly, so dealing with pesky cannons hiding at the back of the battlefield won't be too hard for it either."

Spinocus
08-04-2011, 04:21
Brits already have Elton John, I think that's enough monsters as it is.
+1

Does he come with an 'I'm Still Standing' rule that negates Heroic Killing Blow?

Yeah

Yeah

Yeah

:p


2 of the Warsphynx with their T8 and "Special small template attack" sounds like just the right solution for blocks of steadfast troops.

I think double Warsphynx will join the Double Hydra, Double HPA club!!

Wouldn't it be funny if the Abom lost its 'Public Enemy Number One' crown when these T8 monsters hit the table? And why the hell did GW settle on T8? What's wrong with good old T6?!? Hell, even the mean & scary Abom is only T5!!! T8 pushes these Sphinx beasties into Stank point denial territory and not every army has Toughness bypassing tools to deal with T8 effectively, let alone a pain in the butt T8 monster that can fly... :rolleyes: And what's the word on their Armor Save?

I fear we're heading towards Monsterhammer... GW, think of the children! :rolleyes:

Urgat
08-04-2011, 04:32
Honestly, on a flying monster that will likely spend its time bullying weak units, T8 is as good as T6, in either case it's going to be 6 to wound.

Spinocus
08-04-2011, 04:59
Honestly, on a flying monster that will likely spend its time bullying weak units, T8 is as good as T6, in either case it's going to be 6 to wound.

Yeah but T8 makes this thing that much harder for high quality units looking to take them down. T6 is better because it lets people with S5 or S6 weapons better humiliate people who place too much faith in such expensive beasties... 4s and 5s to wound being more better than 6s... ;)

"Now I know you loved that Sphinx but don't cry about it son, just walk it off, you'll be ok..." :D

Urgat
08-04-2011, 05:07
So, instead, T8 makes you humiliated because your S5/S6 weapons didn't work? It's ok, you'll manage ;)

sulla
08-04-2011, 05:47
So, instead, T8 makes you humiliated because your S5/S6 weapons didn't work? It's ok, you'll manage ;)Kinda souunds like classic GW overreaction... "Everyone is taking great weapon hordes! Shall we erratta the cost of great weapons to make them less attractive?" "Naah, we'll just release a monster that makes a mockery of them so one army can ignore them..."

Rosstifer
08-04-2011, 06:06
Or they could be toughness 8 because, y'know, there made of stone. Seems to fit the fluff fine to me.

DarkstarSabre
08-04-2011, 06:08
I like big monsters.
I don't like each and every army being reinforced after the same pattern.

What makes it even worse is that the pattern is even the same in the monster's abilities.

Arachnarok with it's Venom Surge.... The Sphinx with it's uber strike....

Sigh. If they'd introduced more 'bone machines' or alternate constructs based on the giant they could have had a big kit that meshed well instead of having to 1-up as seems to be the pattern in 40k...

Also - with regards to the Sphinx....

I want to know it's initiative. Seriously. If it's initiative is 1 (please please please please) then my Lizards will finally cheer as the Carnosaur would be somewhat useful!

Edit again: And I like the new 'large scale'. I'd appreciate a new Carnosaur sized Carnosaur soon instead of the angry iguana.

innerwolf
08-04-2011, 06:15
Poisoned wind globadiers are instantly situational instead of nearly useless. Against TK, they wound Sphynxes as easy as they would wound a bretonian peasant :p

Scythe
08-04-2011, 06:18
Or they could be toughness 8 because, y'know, there made of stone. Seems to fit the fluff fine to me.


Indeed. For creatures made out of stone, a high toughness is more fitting than a high number of wounds or something like regeneration. While a dragon might be protected by hard scales, it is still flesh underneat. A sphinx is just stone everywhere; it doesn't really have a weak spot. I can't imagine a greatsword being much more effective as a normal sword against such thing.

Either way, I will just use canons. Sigmar doesn't care wether you're T3, T6 or T8. That cannonball is still taking your head :p

But I love the big monsters of warhammer. They are what originally got me interested in the game. Great models and centrepieces of an army, and the plastic versions make them a lot easier to assemble and model.

oCoYoRoAoKo
08-04-2011, 06:55
This is the bit where every Daemon army shelves their Bloodthirsters/Keepers for a Balesword+Nox Vapors Great Unclean One.

Cy.

Myrmidon616
08-04-2011, 08:22
I believe my main gripe is that as I lack tactical acumen, I have no bally idea how something GW goes on about would actually perform in battle (I'm still sceptical about the Doomwheel), especially as I swear they always over hype thier new big stuff as well as the fact that every one in the studio always has to buy one.

Whilst all of the previous big base monsters sounded annoying but defeatable, the necrosphynx with its T8 and all manner of other rules sounds like a so and so to fight in battle (although as people have said, still killable).

I have a Warp lightning cannon though so I can't really complain :)

dragonet111
08-04-2011, 09:40
This is the bit where every Daemon army shelves their Bloodthirsters/Keepers for a Balesword+Nox Vapors Great Unclean One.

Cy.

I think I will try to shoot it to death with Bolt of Change. It's as powerful as a canon (if you are lucky :)).

Tymell
08-04-2011, 09:43
The "fielding three of them" thing is just part of marketing, trying to sell more of them.

Personally I like the big monster kits. I think they're good kits and I don't see the "crowbaring" some users seem to in their introduction. The monsters so far fit just fine. There's definitely a trend, but it doesn't feel forced (yet).

Haravikk
08-04-2011, 09:51
I think in 8th what we previously considered to be a big monster just isn't as nasty anymore; sure some definitely are, but a lot can be beaten fairly easily, which puts most into more of a supporting role.

So new big monsters is certainly not a bad idea, my main concern is them trying to come up with anything too gimmicky for armies that don't really need them. I mean personally as a rule I'd rather they just stayed focused on replacing metal regiments with plastic kits, as IMO that's more important right now, though the Arachnarok and Warsphinx kits are both really cool, and part of the fun of Warhammer is just having and seeing the armies, let alone fighting with them.

oCoYoRoAoKo
08-04-2011, 10:00
I would have preferred them to do something with the bone giants instead of adding a 'sphinx that is not a sphinx' to the TK list. Maybe something like a giant-sized Ushabti statue (though we dont know what the 'Necrolith Collosus is yet).

Though i do think that they could have had the sphinx as something different then just another big monster with a howdah.

Cy.

Grimmeth
08-04-2011, 10:19
I'm thinking that all the big monster love may inadvertantly play into Avatar of War's hands...

Access to cheap Slayers to decimate all those T6 + beasties? Yes please :)

fatCobra
08-04-2011, 10:34
<3 Big monsters. possible Tomb Kings model have been leaked and they look like Giant Undead Sphinxes

amplebob
08-04-2011, 10:48
I'm thinking that all the big monster love may inadvertantly play into Avatar of War's hands...

Access to cheap Slayers to decimate all those T6 + beasties? Yes please :)

An excellent point well made.

I quite enjoy the liberal sprinkling of large monsters in the game now, perhaps because I like having the jurrassic park theme tune on when I break out my lizardmen. Also, from a painting and modelling perspective it gives you something to really go to town on after destroying your fingers, eyes and back painting up your various horde infantry....

Grimmeth
08-04-2011, 10:50
A good centrepiece to an army is always a good thing - no doubt about that at all - all armies should really have something.

drear
08-04-2011, 11:09
I think its a great move to give armies a centre piece. and one thats unique to their army!

before it tended to be I have a giant/hydra/steam tank and that was really it..

now each army will have some amazingly interesting and unique aspect of their army.
and if the arachnorork is anything to go by , they will all be over priced, low armour saves but with a direction towards monster/character hunting.

3 monsters released so far have had very specific killing rolls assigned through their attacks. heroic killing blow , and venom surge for monster/character killing and now thunder crunch for infantry killing.

i can see this trend carrying on with the next waves of creatures

Makaber
08-04-2011, 11:15
I like them. They define Warhammer and sets it apart from the more realistic, historically correct games. If I didn't want big ass spiders crushing my little dudes underfoot, I'd play some Napoleonic stuff instead.

That said, as a Beastman player I feel a bit cheated. Beastmen were supposed to be "The Monster Army", and now everybody else have better monsters, with actual miniatures for them! :p

drear
08-04-2011, 11:26
but beastmen will have 3 monsters when they get redone D:

Memnos
08-04-2011, 11:36
Since the Sphinx is a monster in Warmaster, it's not like they pulled it out of thin air.

Way to go, Tomb King players. Mad respect to you.

And now, I have more things to take down with my Beastmen!

BaSe
08-04-2011, 11:46
I like the way it's going it's exciting. I'm looking forward to chaos stuff (demons or woc). A great khorne beast would be sweet. I can't see every army getting something however. Brets being a good example.

theunwantedbeing
08-04-2011, 11:46
Ooo toughness 8...big deal, its only got 5 wounds.
The Araknarok spider is harder to gun down for armies who don't have cannon and such simply as that thing has three more wounds.

t6, t8
Same thing if your not st5 or more, still a 6 to wound it.

I do wonder why the necrosphinx has an attack called "decapitating strike"..surely that will just be "heroic killing blow"....right?

Roll on Dark Elf giant robot :)

Chris_
08-04-2011, 11:51
Yes, Decapitating Strike means one of its attack has S10 with Heroic Killing Blow.

Woodsman
08-04-2011, 12:07
Well I like 'em. Hope Brets don't get one, they just need some monster killing stuff.

scarletsquig
08-04-2011, 12:32
but beastmen will have 3 monsters when they get redone D:

Yeah, 2019 is gonna be such an awesome year for that army. :P

Urgat
08-04-2011, 12:42
Ooo toughness 8...big deal, its only got 5 wounds.
The Araknarok spider is harder to gun down for armies who don't have cannon and such simply as that thing has three more wounds.

t6, t8
Same thing if your not st5 or more, still a 6 to wound it.

I do wonder why the necrosphinx has an attack called "decapitating strike"..surely that will just be "heroic killing blow"....right?

Roll on Dark Elf giant robot :)

It's got a special name because you got to nominate one of the attacks, like for the arachnarok's overcharged poison attack (another trend?). As for the rest, you're right, so the question is going to be: saves? Because if it's not too high, volley shot is a strong contender for getting rid of it... like most monsters. My warmachines are out, though :/

BigbyWolf
08-04-2011, 12:49
<3 Big monsters. possible Tomb Kings model have been leaked and they look like Giant Undead Sphinxes

You mean the ones that are available to advance order on the GW website? Not much of a leak…;)

dragonet111
08-04-2011, 12:52
If that beast have bad saves a dwarfs slayer unit (maybe dwarf slayer characters) are going to have fun.

After all slayers are made to fight that kind of monsters

Chaos Undecided
08-04-2011, 13:08
Guess the big monsters is purely a marketing decision to increase the appeal of Warhammer to the masses, after all 40K has its tanks so stands to reason big stuff for Warhammer would improve its general popularity.

Be interesting to see what they do when they get around to Dwarves, some oversized war machine I'd guess. Maybe slayer units will take a leaf from the Savage Orcs book and start running around with oversized axes to.

dragonet111
08-04-2011, 13:22
Well I like 'em. Hope Brets don't get one, they just need some monster killing stuff.

I love big monsters/kits, I can't wait to see what is coming for chaos (daemons). I think most armies have space for a giant kit. I don't care if the giant kits are purely a marketing decision for me it add to the fun/cool factor of Warhammer and my daemon army.

Now

I think dwarfs and Bretonnian should not have a giant kit. They are IMO the only 2 armies that are better without giant kits.

Tokamak
08-04-2011, 13:28
I thought the zepplin was a pretty obvious thing for the dwarfs. It's already in the big rule book. It's similar to the big spider in the book as well, these were simply proxy models to playtest the lists.

drear
08-04-2011, 13:39
the zepplin would be amazing <3

Myrmidon616
08-04-2011, 14:04
Not exactly a monster but the Bretonians could have a big mobile shrine, like Empire and Chaos, sought of like an upgraded grail relaquaire. Just a thought.

BigbyWolf
08-04-2011, 14:17
After the last Beastmen book came out, we actually discussed this topic (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248294)...and at the time people predicted massive spiders and sphinxes.

There's a few other interesting suggestions for what other armies could field as big beasties in that thread to, so might be worth a look (but try not to post in there...lest you anger the mods through the dark art of Threadromancy!).

TsukeFox
08-04-2011, 15:06
Why would chaos (warriors or dAemons ) get a new large monster? Mortals have 4 already and daemons have greater daemons. More than enough.

dragonet111
08-04-2011, 15:12
Why would chaos (warriors or dAemons ) get a new large monster? Mortals have 4 already and daemons have greater daemons. More than enough.

I'm not speaking of new but rather new incarnation.

Plastic greater daemon
War mammoth
.....
....

that kind of thing.

And of course there is units without models yet like chaos warshrine.

BaSe
08-04-2011, 15:26
Why would chaos (warriors or dAemons ) get a new large monster? Mortals have 4 already and daemons have greater daemons. More than enough.warriors don't have access to them plus I wAnt a funky new toy to play with ;)

drear
08-04-2011, 15:26
a plastic greater deamon kit would be awesome, maybe 1 for each god or a kit encompassing them all? or atleast two similar of body, so a tzeench/slaanesh kit might work, a nurgle + anything kit wouldnt..

however gw's love toward nurgle seems to have gone..all metal army? maybe nurgle is being phased out..

freddieyu
08-04-2011, 15:35
I think something huge or an uber unit per army is extremely characteristic of WHFB....it may not be a monster, but could be something similar (ie steam tank for the empire)...

Now it would be interesting to see what they come up for the dwarfs for their next book....

WarmbloodedLizard
08-04-2011, 15:43
I like big monsters.
I don't like each and every army being reinforced after the same pattern.

I agree. It's just really boring game design and helps armies to become less unique. :(


Not exactly a monster but the Bretonians could have a big mobile shrine, like Empire and Chaos, sought of like an upgraded grail relaquaire. Just a thought.

why not just make the GR more interesting instead? Not every army needs a 0815 shrine + 0815 monster.

Myrmidon616
08-04-2011, 16:22
why not just make the GR more interesting instead? Not every army needs a 0815 shrine + 0815 monster.

I find the idea of a bunch of deranged peasants carrying around the bones of a dead Grail Knight quite interesting already.

Thinking about it, a massive Trebuchet, like the ones they used in the crusades (Bad Neighbour and all that) would be cooler.

BigbyWolf
08-04-2011, 16:54
I find the idea of a bunch of deranged peasants carrying around the bones of a dead Grail Knight quite interesting already.

Thinking about it, a massive Trebuchet, like the ones they used in the crusades (Bad Neighbour and all that) would be cooler.

Have you seen the current Trebuchet? That's pretty massive.

I think perhaps some form of armoured "siege-tower" packed to the gills with peasants/ archers could fit nicely into GWs obsession of attaching a "howdah" to everything.

dragonet111
08-04-2011, 16:59
IMO the solution for Bretonnian is virtues. Give them virtues to deal with this big monsters and I will be happy.

Dante blackfur
08-04-2011, 17:11
Why not just go for the absolute best "Mega-mini" have a model of Khorne sitting on his throne of skulls! :p "
WS BS S T I LD
100 100 100 100 100 100
SPecial Rules:
God of war!
When Khorne is placed on the atble you win the game :P

Do something along that!
Or slennesh could be when you place him in the table gain control of your opponents army... just food for thoughts! enjoy1

Huoshini
08-04-2011, 20:35
Being developed with french influence in mind, Brettonians have a few options to take insipartion from when it comes to large beasties! One being the Tarasque. Most poeple would know this name from it's incarnation in dungeons and dragons but this beast actually comes from a story about Saint Martha of france who tamed a creature.

"The Tarasque was a sort of dragon with six short legs like a bear's, an ox-like body covered with a turtle shell, and a scaly tail that ended in a scorpion's sting. It had a lion's head.

The Tarasque was said to have come from Galatia which was the home of the legendary Onachus, a scaly, bison-like beast which burned everything it touched. Some speculate that the story of the Onachus may be related to either that of the Unicorn or the Phoenix. The Tarasque was the offspring of the Onachus and the Leviathan of biblical account; disputably a giant sea serpent" [Cited from Wikipedia]


It dosen't quite seem like it could be worked into the brettonian fluff at first glance but if you replace Saint Martha with the lady of the lake or something to that effect

EmperorNorton
09-04-2011, 09:34
Never heard of the Tarasque before, but looking at some pictures that thing is just awesome.
There have to be a bunch of monsters in the Arthurian legend which could be used, but I can't think of anything other than a few giants.

Deff Mekz
09-04-2011, 09:40
To be honest I don't see people's problem with each army getting a characterful monster. When I joined the hobby the only monster I ever say was the Giant and a dragon once every blue moon. I'm all for more monster kits in the future.

Artein
09-04-2011, 11:40
The latest batch of new army books all seem to feature the introduction of big monsters:

I'm a Dark Elf player and I must say one thing....

They took our job! :(

Urgat
09-04-2011, 12:40
Mmh. Back 3 editions ago only, all armies had access to a dozen monster, so everybody now having their own really doesn't bother me. I'd rather the dwarfs have a giant mobile armored brewry with a dozen ale-powered flame canons than them egtting dragons and co back, but it's also kind of unfair to go "you play unfair, you don't get to play with big minis, because we don't like it!".

snottlebocket
09-04-2011, 12:55
Actually, yes. Raising and taming a monster as a mount is a heroic feat that emphasizes the virtues of the rider (providing its a noble enough monster, which as an eagle + horse, a Hippogriff is). Having them roam free just scares the peasants (and results in fewer peasants).

The point is, the 'good' armies don't have free roaming monsters, because monsters are bad. Its only when subjected to the will of a powerful individual that they become viable and acceptable. They don't exactly have the dark evil magics to control a wild monster.

The old editions managed to solve that with a single of line of fluff. Plenty of monsters were hand reared and tame and plenty of powerful mages could dominate their minds into submission.

None of that is anymore unlikely than the existence of such a beast by itself.

logan054
09-04-2011, 13:37
I'm not speaking of new but rather new incarnation.

Plastic greater daemon
War mammoth
.....
....

that kind of thing.

And of course there is units without models yet like chaos warshrine.

I would imagine WoC would get a plastic shaggoth and then some plastic dragon ogres, they woudl just give the shaggoth a major upgrade so it can compete with the other big bad monsters that are coming out.

I can't see plastic greater daemons unless they drastically change the way you make greater daemons in the book and have some sort of all in one kit.

Urgat
09-04-2011, 14:24
Is there really anybody who would want a single kit for all the greater demons? Really? The same kit for making a KoS and a GUO? I'm really glad some people aren't working in design teams.

Eta
09-04-2011, 15:21
I like big monsters.
I don't like each and every army being reinforced after the same pattern.

This is exactly my opinion, too. Keeping armies unique starts with the army list itself and not with how many special rules are piled on basically the same units to make them different.

Tarian
09-04-2011, 15:44
Actually, yes. Raising and taming a monster as a mount is a heroic feat that emphasizes the virtues of the rider (providing its a noble enough monster, which as an eagle + horse, a Hippogriff is). Having them roam free just scares the peasants (and results in fewer peasants).

The point is, the 'good' armies don't have free roaming monsters, because monsters are bad. Its only when subjected to the will of a powerful individual that they become viable and acceptable. They don't exactly have the dark evil magics to control a wild monster.

I think the mountain caves in Caledor full of dragons would disagree with you...

logan054
09-04-2011, 15:48
Is there really anybody who would want a single kit for all the greater demons? Really? The same kit for making a KoS and a GUO? I'm really glad some people aren't working in design teams.

To do it you would have to scrap the whole idea of lord of change, GUO, etc and make it so you just have great daemons that you upgrade based on god with no real set look. I wouldn't like the idea and would be happy if they made scaled down versions of the forgeworld ones in resin.

Eta
09-04-2011, 15:58
To do it you would have to scrap the whole idea of lord of change, GUO, etc and make it so you just have great daemons that you upgrade based on god with no real set look. I wouldn't like the idea and would be happy if they made scaled down versions of the forgeworld ones in resin.

Or they could provide a 120+ parts set that lets you build all four Greater Daemons and costs as much as the Stompa / Baneblade kits.

Aluinn
09-04-2011, 16:09
Clearly GW realized they were making max profit from vehicle kits in 40K, and decided to bring something similar to Fantasy. That's about what I think of it.

Is it a bad thing? Well, no, not necessarily. Some of the kits are nice and, really, I guess $50 makes sense in these days of 10 infantry models costing $25 (or sometimes over $40, for no apparent reason; I'm looking at you Greatswords and Tomb Guard)--that is to say, it's not actually an absurdly high price relative to anything else, any longer.

It is also nice in the sense that it prevents all FB armies from just being huge blocks of infantry, which is encouraged by 8th Ed. rules and gets boring pretty fast.

However, some of it does seem a little shoe-horned. I mean, O&G had the Giant already. Was that not enough? It may not be completely unique to them but it seems a suitable huge centerpiece model, and in appearance it is fairly different from a Slave Giant or the Chaos Giant, at least about as much as one dragon looks different from another type of dragon. An enormous spider is just ... well it makes about as much sense as an enormous boar, which is to say, it is fully justifiable within the universe, but it strikes me as kind of arbitrary.

The Sphinx doesn't, though, nor does the HPA; those are a bit more unique and were included in armies that previously had no large monsters.

dragonet111
09-04-2011, 16:19
Is there really anybody who would want a single kit for all the greater demons? Really? The same kit for making a KoS and a GUO? I'm really glad some people aren't working in design teams.

I hope to never see the day where the 4 greater daemons are made a single Kit.

When Plaguebearers will be released in plastic the daemon army will be one of the most "plastic" army.
If GW release Plaguebearers for 40k a 8ed warhammer release for them could be as simple as 4 plastic greater daemons.

I will be ecstatic with plastic greater daemons.

Haravikk
09-04-2011, 18:23
Greater demons of Slaanesh and Tzeentch are maybe similar enough in stature as to fit into a single kit, but it'd be a push and probably do no justice to either. I mean look at the Demon Prince kit; it's only really good for Khorne or undivided, none of the rest are properly represented.

Separate kits is the way to go, for both the greater demons and princes. They could possibly justify it by doing a combo kit that does both a greater demon and a demon prince for the particular chaos god, as people can then buy both, or trade/sell whatever part(s) they don't want.

Myrmidon616
09-04-2011, 18:24
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against thier introduction as as usual, the designers have made some fantastic models that look great as centrepieces and work well within both the feel and rules of the game.

Its just that the cynical part of me sees this, as I see it, recent trend for big monsters, whether they be re-introductions or re-interpretations etc. , and thinks 'there goes GW again with some marketting ploy', which then leaves a niggling thought which doesn't seem to want to go away.

I'm sorry but thats they way I see it, although I do hope they continue making great models.

As for plastic Greater Deamons: they made the plastic deamon prince didn't they? Its not that great a leap to making plastic GD, as long as they still have all the unique qualities of thier particular god.

GodlessM
09-04-2011, 19:15
Or they could provide a 120+ parts set that lets you build all four Greater Daemons and costs as much as the Stompa / Baneblade kits.

Which would end up costing more than the current metals.

Scythe
11-04-2011, 06:27
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against thier introduction as as usual, the designers have made some fantastic models that look great as centrepieces and work well within both the feel and rules of the game.

Its just that the cynical part of me sees this, as I see it, recent trend for big monsters, whether they be re-introductions or re-interpretations etc. , and thinks 'there goes GW again with some marketting ploy', which then leaves a niggling thought which doesn't seem to want to go away.


They are a buisiness, and want to make money. If they didn't, they wouldn't survive long. Can't fault them for trying to make money this way, as it leads to great miniatures.

DaemonReign
11-04-2011, 07:21
I'd definately stick with paying some supposed premium on cumbersome metal-GDs..

The PlasticDaemonPrince is the crappiest Lord-model in my army, never mind the paintjob.. Doesn't compare with even the GW-GDs (Thirster, GuO) that I had to swap for non-GW resin-products because of their poor aesthetics.

Thankfully, I doubt it lies in GW's interest to turn GDs into "multi-palstic"-kits. Amongst the last models where people accept metal..

Or GW would have to up their quality to resin high class standard āla Forgeworld and beyond. But resin is too fragile when a large part of the customer-base are the same age I was when I started. I actually seriously think that's a large part of the explanation to why GW would rather market higher quality through Forgeworld to begin with. Focusing too much on the pretentious-painter class gamers is just gonna drive loads of other people into the arms of game-systems that cost lest money (particularly when it comes to Starting the hobby).

Haravikk
11-04-2011, 09:32
The PlasticDaemonPrince is the crappiest Lord-model in my army
It really is a horrible kit isn't it? Not to say that it's not possible to build and paint a good one, but most of the builds start to look so much like an amateurish Be'Lakor (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1110281&rootCatGameStyle=) that it begs the question; why not just get him instead?

It's also a great showcase of what could be done wrong with greater demons. This makes it a very difficult thing for GW, as to make individual kits in plastic would have a huge up-front expense that it might take years to make back, as they simply won't appeal to enough players at once, despite being a very important part of the Warhammer world.

Maybe if they geared up to release a separate armies book for each of the major chaos gods then it'd be a possibility, even if they went the core chaos + supplements route, as that would at least appeal to both demons and warriors of chaos players. As I've seen a lot more Warriors of Chaos players than demons, not to say there aren't any, but both together might have the impetuous to justify separate greater demon kits, provided both armies could field them (or they became one army again as they really ought to).

Max_Killfactor
11-04-2011, 11:18
I like the monsters. I think it's a great move and will help bring in more players to fantasy.

BigbyWolf
11-04-2011, 11:27
An enormous spider is just ... well it makes about as much sense as an enormous boar, which is to say, it is fully justifiable within the universe, but it strikes me as kind of arbitrary.

The Sphinx doesn't, though, nor does the HPA; those are a bit more unique and were included in armies that previously had no large monsters.

Doomwheel, Vermin Lord, Bone Giant?

They kinda filled the role of "big monster" previously.

As for the huge spider, the tales of them go back as far as the 4th edition OnG book, and people have been speculating/ wishlisting about them for many years.

Personally, I'm glad that people have an option for something that's different to some form of giant!

Harwammer
11-04-2011, 19:07
I thought the zepplin was a pretty obvious thing for the dwarfs. It's already in the big rule book. It's similar to the big spider in the book as well, these were simply proxy models to playtest the lists.
Sounds likely. I wouldn't be surprised by the appearance of Ancestor Cannons either.

The 2019 beastmen book? Isn't that going to be the one that merges cygor and ghorgons back into generic chaos giants and drop the jabber since no model will ever be made? Oh and it's an expac for WoC :P

Urgat
11-04-2011, 19:21
However, some of it does seem a little shoe-horned. I mean, O&G had the Giant already. Was that not enough? It may not be completely unique to them but it seems a suitable huge centerpiece model, and in appearance it is fairly different from a Slave Giant or the Chaos Giant, at least about as much as one dragon looks different from another type of dragon. An enormous spider is just ... well it makes about as much sense as an enormous boar, which is to say, it is fully justifiable within the universe, but it strikes me as kind of arbitrary.

Although they were not named, Arachnaroks were already described in the 4th edition armybook, you know? Spiders as big as dragons, that's how they were described. With giants and wyverns, they were the only consistant, typcal giant monsters linked to greenkins in the fluff. Hardly shoehorned if you ask me.

Kroq9Gar
12-04-2011, 19:17
Brets should get giant frog with howdaw and peasants throwing baguettes at everyone. :) I mean, O&G have a giant spider...

Urgat
12-04-2011, 19:33
And warseer got trolls, so...

kyussinchains
13-04-2011, 12:27
while some monsters are great, surely their effect will be to turn the game into monsterhammer....?

I like collecting miniatures not macrotures.... I think rolling out the dragon for a huge 10k game is great, and there should be potent rules for the beast to reflect this, but I feel that players should be encouraged to keep the spectacular to a sensible level..... on the few occasions I can get a fantasy game at my LGS, there's almost always a few HPA's or arachnaroks scuttling about, and it dramatically changes the feel of the game.

Not to mention the new uber rules for magic and monsters will reduce the game to an exercise in alternately setting up figures, and putting them back in the case as they die in droves to the latest mega weapon....

Time will tell, but I'm not expecting the new expansion to add much to the game that I would consider an improvement...

Myrmidon616
13-04-2011, 15:58
In my view, it perhaps wouldn't have been that bad (with regards to fielding 3 arachnaroks in one army etc.) if it weren't for the changes in 8th to army selection as the old system of slots would have limited the number of gribbly beasts you could field.

popisdead
13-04-2011, 22:41
The latest batch of new army books all seem to feature the introduction of big monsters:

as well as loads of scary sounding things for Beastmen that I'm ignorant of.


This is the current trend. I like that GW is introducing new things to the game that make it fresh and exciting.

Beastmen non-spawn rare are pointed quite high to feel the ability of taking them in an army a good value.

...and I'd never take more than one spawn (deal with pesky flying mages trying to roll my army with a template).

Scythe
15-04-2011, 08:04
In my view, it perhaps wouldn't have been that bad (with regards to fielding 3 arachnaroks in one army etc.) if it weren't for the changes in 8th to army selection as the old system of slots would have limited the number of gribbly beasts you could field.

Huh? If anything, the percentage system limits big monsters more than the slots system in most cases. Due to % restrictions, it is impossible to get 3 arachnaroks in 2000 pts, for example. 7th edition rules would have allowed that. Not to mention that 8th edition has restrictions in place on the number of identical special and rare units as well. You still can't run 3 underpriced Hydras in 2400 pts.

Myrmidon616
15-04-2011, 08:33
Huh? If anything, the percentage system limits big monsters more than the slots system in most cases. Due to % restrictions, it is impossible to get 3 arachnaroks in 2000 pts, for example. 7th edition rules would have allowed that. Not to mention that 8th edition has restrictions in place on the number of identical special and rare units as well. You still can't run 3 underpriced Hydras in 2400 pts.

I'd forgotten about that

Tokamak
15-04-2011, 10:37
You also can't cut on your core choices to allow for more special.

BooTMGSG
15-04-2011, 11:58
Generally agree that the only thing monsterous about dwarfs should be their axes, but I can't shake the image of a dwarf in a steampunk dreadknight. hmm shoulder mounted organ gun, axe the size of a ogre, rampaging across the field in a drunken fury.
Fortunately any engineer suggesting such a thing would receive a stern talking to by his elders.