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DivineVisitor
08-04-2011, 00:21
Been discussing things with a few friends of mine and the conclusion was, there are way too many Space Marine armies, the majority of which are fairly similar. We got onto the topic of which armies we believe should be represented with their own codices. So far GW's list currently looks like:


Black Templars
Blood Angels
Chaos Daemons
Chaos Space Marines
Dark Angels
Dark Eldar
Eldar
Grey Knights
Imperial Guard
Necrons
Orks
Space Marines
Space Wolves
Tau
Tyranids
Witch Hunters


We thought a better list would be something like:


Adeptus Mechanicus
Blood Angels
Chaos Daemons
Chaos Renegades (cultists, mutants, beastmen, traitor guard, limited traitor space marines)
Chaos Legions
Dark Eldar
Ecclesiarchy/Sisters of Battle
Eldar
Daemonhunters/Grey Knights
Imperial Guard
Necrons
Orks
Space Marines
Space Wolves
Tau
Tyranids


Here we could simply shoehorn a few of the other Space Marine codices into one and perhaps have a Special Character booklet such that Chaos had back in 5th edition Warhammer Fantasy, Deathwatch could perhaps be placed here too.
The exception to the rules being the Space Marine Chapters that we couldn't be bothered squeezing into what would already be a large Space Marine book (Stuff for Death Company, Sanguinary Priests, Red Thirst, most of the Space Wolf and Grey Knight units). And would give a bit of the spotlight to forces that GW have so far not shown much interest in.

I realise there isn't all that massive a change from what we have but it just feels more 'complete' to me. Anyone else have a list that differs from what GW have so far made available to us?

Torpedo Vegas
08-04-2011, 00:27
In before Squats.

I think it would be cool if 40k got a ravening hordes style Eldar Corsair and Exodites list.

I'd argue that Black Templars and Dark Angels COULD be put into Codex marines if, say, taking an Emperor's Champion would give you there Vows and unlock Scouts as troops plus Fearless in combat.

Admech would be cool, but aside from having an all walker list I can't help but think that they'd play similarly to IG.

The Orange
08-04-2011, 00:30
Hum, interesting you decided SW and BA should be saved, you ever consider the idea that maybe when GW got around to remaking DA/BT that their rules would be divergent enough to warrant their own codices. I.e. the problem you guys see isn't that there's too much SMs as long as GW makes them different enough.

IMO there are too many Imperial armies. Take a good look at your list, ever realize that 1/2 are imperial while the other 1/2 are all the xenos books?

Raibaru
08-04-2011, 00:34
Should just make 6th edition focus on the horus heresy and do away with all non-human armies imo. I mean no one at GW cares about them right?

DivineVisitor
08-04-2011, 00:40
In before Squats.

I think it would be cool if 40k got a ravening hordes style Eldar Corsair and Exodites list.

I'd argue that Black Templars and Dark Angels COULD be put into Codex marines if, say, taking an Emperor's Champion would give you there Vows and unlock Scouts as troops plus Fearless in combat.

Admech would be cool, but aside from having an all walker list I can't help but think that they'd play similarly to IG.

Well we were thinking something along the lines of skitarii, mechanicus guards, adepts, robots, Knight heavy walkers, STC/dark age relics they've hoarded for themselves etc. I'd expect with those crazy cogboys there are endless possibilities for a full army if someone set their mind to it.
Emperors Champion could always be one of the characters featured in a Space Marine Special Character codex in which his presence would add vows etc to a Space Marine Army. Dark Angels i would think is fairly easy to incorporate.



Hum, interesting you decided SW and BA should be saved, you ever consider the idea that maybe when GW got around to remaking DA/BT that their rules would be divergent enough to warrant their own codices. I.e. the problem you guys see isn't that there's too much SMs as long as GW makes them different enough.

Yea the thought that Dark Angels and Black Templars may have a number done on them to make them quite different from standard Marines did cross the mind but should they? That may be were people's opinion differs, personally i'd rather see them wrapped into the Space Marine codex.


IMO there are too many Imperial armies. Take a good look at your list, ever realize that 1/2 are imperial while the other 1/2 are all the xenos books?

So you mean just about exactly how it is at the moment? GW have 8 Imperium vs 8 Xenos/Traitor and the list we came up with had 7 vs 9. Im not saying what we think is better or for everyone, just that it feels more complete to me.
Still i didn't really make the topic to discuss how the list i came up with is or isn't to people's desires im more interested in finding out what other armies people think should or shouldn't be represented in the universe our toy soldiers call home.

Mannimarco
08-04-2011, 00:40
I think it would be cool if 40k got a ravening hordes style Eldar Corsair and Exodites list.


Corsairs should be coming out not to long from now. Not keen on the retro "wings" but theyre coming.

Jack of Blades
08-04-2011, 00:49
Imperial Guard
Space Marines
Forces of Chaos
Tau Empire
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Necrons
Tyranids
Orks

There will be the Inquisition supplemental codex for the Imperial forces. The dexes will be larger to account for stuff like Chaos legions, SM chapters, Ork clans, Tyranid hive fleets (stretching it with the last one but you get the point).

Ideally I would want a whole new Xenos species too and not just anything but another galaxy-wide pest like the Orks are. It would furthermore ideally be similar to the Skaven in that they have a huge empire which is a mockery/parody of humanity. The Orks are the only force which truly adds to the ''Imperium must fight everywhere, always''-thing of 40k, when I first got into Warhammer I found it odd how gloomy the setting was described as being when there really aren't that many constantly troublesome Xenos species represented as armies. There would have been if the scale of the game was one world like Fantasy, but now? nah - needs another sprawling empire, and this would also give the setting a new army that isn't fearless or nearly fearless. Being really scary stops having an impact when you and your enemy are both 8 foot corrupted living weapons/ancient death robots/weaponised biomass/created for war/derive sustenance from pain/etc. We need more than just IG to put the fear into.

Culgore
08-04-2011, 00:52
In reality, all three Chaos entries could be rolled into one book. They should be. That would allow you to create anything from a daemon incursion to a legion force and anywhere in between. This would allow players to represent a real chaos army.

Raibaru
08-04-2011, 00:53
Problem is what role would a new army fill?

We already have the masters of everything (Marines).
The mechanized gunlines in IG
The standard gunlines in Tau.
The slow and purposeful in Necron.
The fast and furious in DE.
The 'supposed to be specialized but really poor implemented' in Eldar.
The ultra assault in Marines too with a light dusting of Eldar/DE.
Ravening hordes in Ork and Nids.

Really nothing left to fill. What sucks is because GW has done such a poor job supporting and expanding the fiction of the non-marine armies in 40k, they've really left nothing to expand upon other than just more imperial crap (admech with low model count walker army no doubt).

Jack of Blades
08-04-2011, 00:55
Problem is what role would a new army fill?

We already have the masters of everything (Marines).
The mechanized gunlines in IG
The standard gunlines in Tau.
The slow and purposeful in Necron.
The fast and furious in DE.
The 'supposed to be specialized but really poor implemented' in Eldar.
The ultra assault in Marines too with a light dusting of Eldar/DE.
Ravening hordes in Ork and Nids.

Really nothing left to fill. What sucks is because GW has done such a poor job supporting and expanding the fiction of the non-marine armies in 40k, they've really left nothing to expand upon other than just more imperial crap (admech with low model count walker army no doubt).

You can always expand, you just need to do it well. If a new army came out that was really well made no one would be like ''gee we already have horde armies, why make more?''. In other words this is an imaginary restriction. I wouldn't underestimate human imagination and creativity either when it comes to creating entirely new sorts of armies.

Raibaru
08-04-2011, 01:00
It's not just that though. How do you make them divergent enough to not make other armies irrelevant?

I mean we could make space yetis that hail from that planet chewbacca if we wanted. But we'd probably run the risk of them making, say necrons, irrelevant because they play the exact same way.

All I'm saying is there's little reason to create a new species when we have nearly half the already established ones so poorly implemented and forgotten they'd be better off fleshing them out first or squating them.

DivineVisitor
08-04-2011, 01:03
In reality, all three Chaos entries could be rolled into one book. They should be. That would allow you to create anything from a daemon incursion to a legion force and anywhere in between. This would allow players to represent a real chaos army.

Im not really wholly abhorred at having Chaos split across 3 different Codices. At first it seemed like a kick in the teeth for my Alpha Legion but i've since been comparing them to the forces the Imperium has to offer.
The likes of the Imperial Guard, Space Marines and Inquisition just about always fight alongside each other much like Daemons, Cultists and Traitor Marines but have their own separate books so im not all that bothered by the separation anymore.
Some ally rules could be good though, but then even without such rules only Tournaments should have a big fuss about someone wanting to field their forces together.

Hellebore
08-04-2011, 01:04
GW stopped caring about army roles and niches when they started giving each marine release the toys of other armies.

If you want to be unbiased then a codex for each faction is the way to go:

Codex: Imperium, Eldar, Chaos, Orks, Tyranids, Tau, Necrons

Space marines rarely fight a war on their own. They exist within the imperial war machine like aspect warriors do in the eldar one.

GW are simply forcing differences for the sake of them, to justify the existence of 6 space marine codices (BA, DA, BT, SW, SM, GK). Notice how although a BA and DA codex has existed since 2nd ed it was only in 5th that the BA were actually changed substantially? Before that they were red ultramarines with a special unit and different names for existing things.

But rather than roll them into the marine codex GW decided to just add MORE things, to justify a separate codex for an army of 1000 warriors and the half dozen successors.

I'd love to see codex biel tann striking scorpions of the silent moon - after all if GW is willing to ******** their way into creating more crap to justify a BA codex, what would that do here? Scorpion serpents with scorpionturrets and flying scorpionlords?

GW has shown their willingness to retconn things and invent whole new units to justify the inclusion of another marine army, that level of creativity can easily be applied to any other force to do the same.

It certainly shows that they won't ever roll marines into a single book - everytime it looks like the books are too similar and should be lumped together, GW will just invent new things to 'justify' their separation ... until they stick all that in the core marine codex and the whole thing starts all over again.

Hellebore

Scaryscarymushroom
08-04-2011, 01:25
There should be one codex to rule them all, and in the darkness... describe everything.

Like a Player's handbook for D&D or like the back of the 3rd edition 40k BRB, only expanded to maybe 300+ pages, hard-cover, possibly even in several volumes. (Imperial and Xenos/Traitor)

I don't mind that one army gets another army's toys... So long as armies still look organized. But then again, I've been playing SoB for too long: I like my allies.

The armies themselves all belong in 40k. Having different rules for different guardsmen would be nice though.

chamelion 6
08-04-2011, 01:27
I don't think it so much prejudice on GW's part as it is preference on the player's part. Let's be honest, SM sales, be they red, blue, grey or what ever, probably make up a disproportionate amount of the revenue. They do marines because, like it or not, they're popular.

I easily see 3 or 4 times the number of marine armies as I do all the other xenos put together and probably 10 times that of any single faction. If the sales for any of the xenos were comparable to SMs they would probably expand their codecies. Didn't the Eldar have several spin off codecies at one time?

I just don't think there is the support for multiple xenos codecies...

Hellebore
08-04-2011, 01:29
GW could still sell all the marine models they do under a single book. The only difference is that they wouldn't get sale from the codicies.

Hellebore

Sgt John Keel
08-04-2011, 01:38
Space marines rarely fight a war on their own.

While true, they often fight battles on their own.

I'd really like for GW to make two Imperial Armour-size volumes for the Space Marines and the rest of the Imperium (because the Imperium is still the largest power base in the galaxy), one for Chaos and smaller, but still comprehensive and inclusive, supplements for the other races. And campaign codices for expansion. So:


Space Marines
Forces of the Imperium
Chaos
Craftworld Eldar
Dark Eldar
Tau
Necrons
Tyranids
Orks

chamelion 6
08-04-2011, 01:38
GW could still sell all the marine models they do under a single book. The only difference is that they wouldn't get sale from the codicies.

Hellebore

They could, but that's not the point. They can generate revenue from 4 or 5 variations on the Space Marines. People will buy them so they produce them.

That's probably not true of the Eldar... Those spin off codecies would sell to the hand full of dedicated Eldar players then the bulk would sit on dusty shelves. That's going to be the case regardless of how many SM codecies are on the market. I love the DE, but let's be honest, once the new smell wears off the codex and the models you won't see many of them around. Likewise for most non space marine armies, Even the IG to some extent.

I doubt you could sell multiple variations of the IG lists either...

Surgency
08-04-2011, 01:45
Man, if only i had a dollar for every time this was discussed on Warseer... I'd have more than enough money to fund a brand new army....

SgtTaters
08-04-2011, 02:19
Codex: Orks (Goffs, Death Skullz, Bad Moon)- your 'standard' orks
Codex: Snakebites (and feral orks)- orks with thundasquigs and squigpriests
Codex: Speed Freeks- speedier orks and da BattleBirdy drop ship
Codex: Blood Axe- kommandos and taktikal know how orks

Codex: Craftworld Eldar (Ulthwe, Iyanden, Saim HannMalantai, Lugganath)
Codex: Biel Tann - featuring the Court and Exarch Executioner Squad
Codex: Altansar- featuring the Altansar Daemon-Eaters
Codex: Eldar Corsairs- featuring the Pirate Princes, exotic wargear and strange allies

Codex: Harlequins- the absolute baddest warriors in the galaxy!

Codex: Kabalite Eldar- these heavily armed, lightning fast archaeo-horrors strike terror across the galaxy,
Codex: Wych Cult- including charioteers and the beast masters.
Codex: Haemonculus Coven- build your own abomination rules!


Codex: Chaos Legions (Chaos space marines)
Codex: Warriors of Chaos (World Eaters & Death Guard)
Codex: Lords of Chaos (Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children)
Codex: Chaos Daemons
Codex: Cults of Chaos (Chaos cultists)

Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Genestealer Cults

Codex: Daemonhunters
Codex: Ordos Heretucus
Codex: Ordos Xenos
Codex: Imperial Guard
Codex: Space Marines (all the rules to play ultramarines, imperial fists, raven guard, white scars, space wolves, blood angels, dark angels, black templars, grey knights, iron hands, salamanders, and more!)

night2501
08-04-2011, 02:21
wath was first, the egg of the chiken?

true be told, from a while GW has been pushing space marines neglecting the other armies, we see the SM gettign more release, more coverage, and showing eveirwhere, while other armies get delayed for several editions... is hard to say SM are only popular becuase they are SM and it has nothing to do with GW almost forcing them on everithing...
on the same plane is hard to say other armies ar ento popular only because they are nto SM, but I guess not having releases or any coverage for year, or being trated only as things for SM to kill does not help...

I think a more fair way to look at it would be to check dawn of war most popular/played armies

http://www.dawnofwargame.com/uk/community/index

the leader show SM geting double as many players as other races, so yes they ar emore popular, but not overhelming, in soulstorm they represent more or less 25% of the games, with each other faction representing more or less 12% of the games (and this is with some factions missing?).

Personally from a business pow forcing the sell marines, is only going for that 25% of the market, maybe a bit more, neglecting the other 75%...

GW should reduce the numbe rof SM armies and focus on full factions to be able to keep them up to date, the armies i think wath should exist is:

- Imperium (IG , and maybe other forces)
- Space marines (all of them...)
- Ecclesiarchy (sisters of battle / inquisitors/ assasins)
- Chaos (cultist/demons/chaos space marines)
- Eldar
- Dark Eldar
- Orks
- Tau
- Necrons
- Tyranids

10 books, with 2 a year it would make for a 5 years cicle, if they manage to do 5 every 2 years it woyuld cut the cicle to 4 years and allow to make the edition change at the fifth year.
It givs a greater focus on the imperium forces, but does not saturate the release with one force beign divided into several factions, small release in withe dwarft or the like can be made to include variatiosn to the list for making secific chapters/ craftworlds / septs / klans etc...

3+savesarefornoobs
08-04-2011, 02:24
Wow, the original poster is obviously a Imperium and Chaos Space Marine fanboy.

There needs to be more Xenos. 40k is so Imperium or spiky former imperium space marine biased its ridiculous.

Hrud needs to be added as a new race. Take out Dark Angels and Black Templars put in all in one space marine codex. Add the cultists to the Chaos Space Marine codex.

STOP the Imperium fanboyism.

Azazyll
08-04-2011, 02:26
Well, really then you should just roll all the eldar together into one codex - they even share a unit! And while we're at it, shouldn't they really just ally with the Tau? And really shouldn't the Orks too, just to make it easier for them to loot vehicles? Couldn't there be Ork mercenaries alongside any of those? The Necrons have even fought alongside some of the other armies mentioned here, so I guess they're in too...plus, all of these forces have fought alongside the imperium at some point or another, so shouldn't they all be one giant codex?

Sarcasm off. The whining about xenos codeci is really overdone here. The imperium rules the galaxy and mankind outnumbers all of the other races with the possible exception of orks. There, I gave you a justification for more imperial armies. Here's another: mankind is simply a more varied race, due to it's galaxy spanning empire. These are not great excuses, but they could easily just make them up and add them in. There's no statistics I'm aware of to prove that they are wrong. ANd the fact of the matter is, there are more human themed armies because they sell better. People seem to like playing humans. And space marines are easy to paint and cheap to buy (relatively speaking) as an elite army. There's a much more compelling reason - they make more of what sells. So if you want to see more xenos, convince more people to buy xenos, or buy more of it yourselves.

Overall though, I'd rather see more codeci than fewer. Sure, I'd like to see exodite eldar get love and see a new xenos race. But I'd also love to see Admech and chaos renegades and a chaos legions book. Plus Genestealer cults come back. And so on and so forth.

Don't get me wrong, I play more xenos than imperium. I'm just sick of the whining. It's unbecoming, and it makes me like xenos less every time I see it on these boards. It's time we all accepted that Space Marines are the cornerstone of this game and moved on. No one at GW will ever change their minds on this front. Ever.

Inevitably, this looks like trolling, and I apologize to anyone I've offended. I'm just sick of it is all, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

night2501
08-04-2011, 02:36
meh funny things I m giving relatively objective sources, pointed a fact, I m talking form a business point of view, and giving good reasons like being able to close a cicle with each edition and i m told I m whining ... :wtf:

chamelion 6
08-04-2011, 02:41
There are reasons SM are more popular. If you talk to people that play them you hear similar stories... They are relatively cheap so the inital investment is fairly small. They are easily identifiable and straight forward in what they do. They are easier to learn because they are far more forgiving to play. That makes them very attractive to somebody just starting out especially if they are new to the hobby and a little unsure. So probably the vast majority of people get introducecd to 40k through a Marine army. Having multiple Codecies for SM army gives them some choice.

It's only after playing the game for a bit that people consider an alternative army and those people tend to get a bit more passionate about their choice.

When I finally decided my old DE army was just too beat up and I was tire of the old Dex I built a SM army. Why? Because they were relatively cheap, had fewer models to paint before I could use them. I eventually moved on to IG but marines provided a simple easy way to get stuff on the board in a hurry with minimal pain.

So I think having multiple Marine codecies on the market helps the hobby more than hurts it.

Firaxin
08-04-2011, 02:42
Codex: the Imperium (Guard, Marines, & Inquisition)
Codex: the Mechanicus
Codex: Chaos/the Corrupted (Daemons, CSM, mutants, a corrupted version of every race, etc)
Codex: Praetorians/whatever the DE were called at the beginning of BotS (CWE, DE, & Exodites)
Codex: the Scourge ('Nids & Orks)
Codex: the Unliving (Necrons)

Note the absence of the Tau. By the time Eldar get more realistic stats, Tau aren't different enough from other armies to justify existing.

Israfael
08-04-2011, 03:22
We thought a better list would be something like:

You seem to be playing favorites. So out of genuine curiosity, if Dark Angels and Black Templar can be fit neatly into C:SM, why not Space Wolves and Blood Angels?

They're really no more difficult to combine than the previous mentioned chapters.

No offense intended, but it just seems like "These guys can be rolled up.. just not my guys.. they're unique snowflakes."


Wow, the original poster is obviously a Imperium and Chaos Space Marine fanboy.

I expected nothing less from a poster with such an overly hostile name.

Stay classy.

On topic, if you wanted to "streamline". I'd suggest:

Codex: Space Marines (All loyalist chapters)
Codex: Imperial Forces (Guard, sisters, ad-mech support)
Codex: Eldar (Dark and "light" variants of space elf)
Codex: Tau Empire (Tau and myriad of xeno allies)
Codex: Ruinous Powers (Chaos marines, demons, renegade guard, cultists, mutants)
Codex: Necron
Codex: Orks
Codex: Tyranids

Yes, Grey Knights have been squatted.

Gir
08-04-2011, 03:40
meh funny things I m giving relatively objective sources, pointed a fact, I m talking form a business point of view, and giving good reasons like being able to close a cicle with each edition and i m told I m whining ... :wtf:

You actually gave sources that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Col. Tartleton
08-04-2011, 03:49
To quote mine self:



C'tan:
From Beyond the Gates of Varl: Perils of the C'tan (Necrons)

Old Ones:
Children of Isha: The Legacy of the Ancients (Craftworld Eldar)
There Is Only War: WAAARGH! Da Orks! (Orks...)
Visions Of the Dark City: Depths of the Fall (Dark Eldar)
In The Darkness Of Qah: The Nocturnal Warriors of Hrud (Hrud and Umbra)

Xenos:
For The Greater Good: Light of the Undying Spirit (Tau Empire and Co.)
Swarm Of The Faithful: Hosts of the Goddess (Q'orl)

Imperium:
Masters of The Stars: They Shall Be My Finest Warriors (Space Marines)
Deus Ex Machina: The Cult of the Machine (Adeptus Mechanicus)
Faith And Devotion: Daughters of the God Emperor (Sisters of Battle/Ecclesiarchy)
Purge The Unclean!: Servants of the Inquisition (Inquisition/Inquisitional Space Marines)

Chaos:
Let The Galaxy Burn: Veterans of the Long War (Chaos Space Marines and LatD)
Thirst Of the Dark Gods: Horrors of the Warp (Cult Space Marines and DoC)

Extragalactic:
Shadows In The Warp: The Great Devourer (Tyranids)
From Beyond The Void: Heralds of Destruction (Zoats)

Notanoob
08-04-2011, 03:53
I agree with Israfael mostly. I'd say:
Codex: Space Marines
It holds all loyalist space marines and uses a doctrines style system to allow you to create your own chapters. Examples would be provided, outlining the rules to play the original chapters and a few other big successor chapters like Black Templars and Crimson Fists.

Codex: Imperium
Holds almost all the other forces of the Imperium, including AdMech, PDF, IG, Arbites, SoB, Elcclesiarchy and any other military forces I forgot. The reason being that they ofter share vehicles, and one is not often seen without the other. What world has a PDF but no Arbites? Realistically, these forces of the Imperium are much more common and can be seen on every world. They would also include a doctrines style system for distinguishing Regiments and creating your own, as well as applying these rules to the rest of the forces present i.e. Carapace armored or up-gunned IG would be rolling around with more AdMech due to one supplying the other.

Codex:Eldar
Includes all the Craftworlds, Exodites, Corsairs, Dark and Harliquinns. Naturally you will find Harlies just about anywhere, and it's not uncommon to see Corsairs with Craftworlders or Exodites, and Exodites often get a hand from the Craftworlds etc. They'd also share a good amount of tech, although not so much for the Dark Eldar. While they're very different, I couldn't see a DE exclusive dex when others had been grouped up so much.

Codex: Orks
Contains all of the Klanz, KoS, Savage etc. Plenty of variety for each Ork, and greater levels of vehicle customization also available.

Codex: Tau Empire
Tau and anyone who they're friends with, so this is where all of those minor xeno races go, like Kroot, vespids, demiurg (squats!), and some other guys who've only had brief mentions in the fluff. Septs fleshed out a bit, as are Farsight enclaves. More cool tech and FW style stuff for them.

Codex: Tyranids and Necrons
Look, I play Tryanids, so don't try to accuse me of anything here. But these two races have the least internal split and subfactions, so they'd otherwise have smaller books or a load of crap thrown in to justify them, and they share the wipe out all life theme. Tyranids get serious mutability stuff all over the place (basically every stat), 'crons get to theme their force more i.e. base it off of one C'tan's style of warfare, and/or go with Wraiths/Imortals/etc. as troops. More units added to Necrons in general to flesh out the list a bit more.

Codex: Chaos
All of the forces of Chaos under one roof. Like all of the other codexes, you can still run your pure demons list or pure CSM list, but LaTD, Dark Mechanicus and such all get greater representation, as well as playing to the fact that plenty of Chaos Lords are just a handful of CSMs commanding blood pacts, cultists and some summonded demons. Tons of cool stuff for everyone here, yes including Legion rules.

Allies expansion
Includes rules for adding Inquisitors, Deathwatch and Grey Knights to your Imperial/SM forces, as well as rules for playing them pure, yes for all three ordos with Inq Storm Troopers. Also gives rules for getting mercinaries like Kroot, Corsairs and Orks etc.

This would be my ideal, a lot less books but a lot bigger and better representing the point.

Achaylus72
08-04-2011, 04:02
My two cents worth.

Codex: Space Marines (Exception Grey Knights)
Codex: Imperium (Forces of the Imperium)
Codex: Inquisition (Daemon Hunters, Witch Hunters and Grey Knights)
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
Codex: Forces of Chaos (Daemons, Beasts and non CSM)
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Dark Eldar
Codex: Tau
Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Necron
Codex: Orks

Wolf Lord Balrog
08-04-2011, 05:04
The problem isn't what armies 'deserve' their own codex. The problem is GW's glacial publishing schedule. They need to release new armybooks 3-4 times faster than they currently do. Fix that problem and you fix everything else.

tezdal
08-04-2011, 05:09
Black Templars don't make the list but SW and BA do? Seems to me BT are most codex divergent of them all....6,000 of those suckers running giving the finger to the Codex Astartes...

3+savesarefornoobs
08-04-2011, 05:31
HRUD

come on punks, admit it we need the HRUD.

AlexHolker
08-04-2011, 06:00
Black Templars don't make the list but SW and BA do? Seems to me BT are most codex divergent of them all....6,000 of those suckers running giving the finger to the Codex Astartes...
Having six times as many people does not affect how they fight on the battlefield. They should be a "doctrine" unlocked by taking an Emperor's Champion in your army.

My list:

Codex Astartes: a big book devoted to everything in a generic Codex chapter.
Heroes of the Space Marines: a big book of doctrines that modify your Space Marine army, special characters and special units.
Imperial Guard: including doctrines that modify the army. The Armoured Company doctrine might allow you to take Leman Russes in squadrons and give access to a command tank HQ, but force you to take Chimeras for all infantry.
Sisters of Battle
Imperial Allies: Inquisitors, Grey Knights, Deathwatch squads and Adeptus Mechanicus.
Chaos: a few general units, with everything else in HQ-unlocked "retinue" sub-lists. For example, a Warsmith might unlock your choice of the CSM or Siegemasters retinue. A Khorne Berserker squad might be available as part of a Khorne or a CSM retinue, but Berserker Chosen would only be in the Khorne retinue.
Dark Eldar
Eldar
Necrons
Orks
Tau
Tyranids

Firaxin
08-04-2011, 06:10
Codex: Tau Empire
Tau and anyone who they're friends with, so this is where all of those minor xeno races go, like Kroot, vespids, demiurg (squats!), and some other guys who've only had brief mentions in the fluff. Septs fleshed out a bit, as are Farsight enclaves. More cool tech and FW style stuff for them.
Perhaps a Codex: "Minor Xenos" is in order, but by no means should Tau be the focus when there are other more wide-spread races like the Hrud, as has been pointed out.


Codex: Tyranids and Necrons
Tyranids and Necrons are about as opposite as you can be thematically. Tyranids and Orks are both close combat and horde oriented. Necrons are the opposite. If we're going the "superdex" route and Necrons don't receive a significant expansion of models/unit entries, the best place for them is in Codex: Minor Xenos. This is even appropriate as per the fluff, since the Imperium has had less contact with them than it has with even the Tau.

Hellebore
08-04-2011, 06:15
While I won't say it's impossible to put the craftworld and dark eldar into a single army list, it would be the equivalent of putting chaos space marines in the normal marine army list.

So, sure.

Hellebore

Castigator
08-04-2011, 06:31
I'd love to see some "Heresy-Era" Codexes (both Loyalists & Traitors), possbily including stats for Primarchs, Space Marine Jet-Bikes, all the fun stuff... , even the Emperor perhaps as a SC for all Loyalist Heresy-Era-Marines.

It might actually be more of an entire "variant game", rather than a mere addition of Codexes, but Heresy-Era Legions appear to be extremely popular armies (and I for one wouldn't mind running some Heresy-Era Imperial Fists so or so, perhaps Heresy-Era Blood Angles and recreate the final Showdowns of the Heresy).

TimLeeson
08-04-2011, 07:38
Keep all existing. Add :

Codex : Krell (enslavers)
Codex : Hrud & Umbra
Codex : Q'orl
Codex : Chaos Aliens (saruthi, slaugth ect)
Codex : Shoggoths
Codex : Flying Polyps
Codex : Dark Youn of Shub-Niggurath
Codex : Spawn Of Yog-Sothoth

Eat that !!! :D

Poseidal
08-04-2011, 07:52
I won't be happy until Codex: Striking Scorpions sees print.

At the moment, I'm having to made do with Counts As: Codex Orks.

Carlosophy
08-04-2011, 08:34
GW could still sell all the marine models they do under a single book. The only difference is that they wouldn't get sale from the codicies.

Hellebore

Its the Legacy of 40k though. Blood Angels and Space Wolves have been very strong themes throughout the games entire history. Space Wolves had the first 2nd edition codex published! Both these armies are divergent enough to warrant their own books.

Templars and Dark Angels could easily be rolled into the main Marine book though. Just throw in Helbrecht, Ezekiel and Azrael as additional characters in place of Cassius and someone else.

Wishing
08-04-2011, 08:41
Yea the thought that Dark Angels and Black Templars may have a number done on them to make them quite different from standard Marines did cross the mind but should they? That may be were people's opinion differs, personally i'd rather see them wrapped into the Space Marine codex.


My problem with this point of view is that it wants to change the status quo without changing anything, which to me seems like a pointless exercise. If you want to reduce the number of marine codexes and add more chaos ones like your list suggests, be consistent and crop the BA and SW stuff too. To me, asking "should BT and DA be different from standard marines?" without asking the same about BA and SW is a mistake based on thinking that things that haven't happened yet aren't important (keeping in mind that this is all just empty wishlisting).

Lord-Caerolion
08-04-2011, 12:37
Having six times as many people does not affect how they fight on the battlefield. They should be a "doctrine" unlocked by taking an Emperor's Champion in your army.


No, but having a vastly different organisational structure, such as no Companies, no defined squad allocations, neophytes accompanying initiates rather than as seperate squads, the compulsory presence of an Emperors Champion and a complete lack of Librarians do. They're just as divergant as the Space Wolves, in that they follow the codex in exactly zero ways.

Seriously, if you think that having 6 times as many Marines is the only way Black Templars differ from other Chapters, you need to have a look at their codex. They can't be folded in.

night2501
08-04-2011, 12:43
You actually gave sources that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

you realize that was to give a more objective view on armyes popularity when all of the factions are somewath balanced and readily avaiable (unlike the current 40K tabletop game) right?

in that aspect as a market survey is quite on topic, I agree it should be a bit squewed since we are not taking random samples, but is a lot better that looking at GW sells only.

and then i based my opinion on something more or less objective, real armies popularity based on that data and GW ability to release codex in a cicle.

GW just can not release 16+ codex in a 4 years cicle, at least not right now, 2 a yea ror 5 every 2 years is more realistic.

Hellebore
08-04-2011, 12:43
Its the Legacy of 40k though. Blood Angels and Space Wolves have been very strong themes throughout the games entire history. Space Wolves had the first 2nd edition codex published! Both these armies are divergent enough to warrant their own books.

Templars and Dark Angels could easily be rolled into the main Marine book though. Just throw in Helbrecht, Ezekiel and Azrael as additional characters in place of Cassius and someone else.

It's funny you should mention 2nd ed - the BA and DA codices were almost identical to the Ultramarines one - the only difference were two unique units (deathwing and death company), different names and special characters.

It took them until 5th ed to actually create more noticeable differences between the BA and normal marines.

Which shows that the amount of difference is irrelevant to them making a separate codex.

You say DA and Templars, but their next editions will have TemplarKnights and Darkpigeons plus techmarine dreadnoughts that can build other dreadnoughts.

GW have decided that they will keep making separate marine armies, so they will invent any old crap to retroactively justify them.

Hellebore

AlexHolker
08-04-2011, 13:20
Seriously, if you think that having 6 times as many Marines is the only way Black Templars differ from other Chapters, you need to have a look at their codex.
I'm not the one who claimed it was significant, DivineVisitor was. As for how the Black Templars work under my system...

Define a Bolt Pistol/CCW/Boltgun/No Heavy Weapons/No Sergeant Troops choice in the Heroes of the Space Marines book, that forms the basis of both Crusader and Grey Hunter squads. (I'll just call them "True Grit Squads", since I can't think of anything better at the moment.)

Then define the Emperor's Champion as if he were a special character, with the following two rules:
Chapter Tactics: If you include an Emperor's Champion then all units in your army exchange the Combat Tactics special rule for the ability to consolidate 1d6" when they pass a morale test, as if they had just wiped out an enemy unit in close combat.

Black Templars: An army including the Emperor's Champion may not include Devastator Squads, Tactical Squad, Scout Squads or Librarians, but it may include True Grit Squads. Any True Grit Squad may include 0-5 Neophytes in addition to its normal numbers, and may take a Land Raider Crusader as a dedicated transport.

Tokamak
08-04-2011, 13:31
Man, if only i had a dollar for every time this was discussed on Warseer... I'd have more than enough money to fund a brand new army....

Yeah but would that army be justified?

Abaraxas
08-04-2011, 13:46
Im very late, but I say Squats and Genestealer Cults.

That is all :o

Obrimos
08-04-2011, 13:50
Codex: Imperium of Man
Marines, Sister, Guard, GK, Inquisition
Codex: Forces of Chaos
Legions, Renegades, Demons, Traitors, Mutants, Dark Admech
Codex: Tyranid Hives
Different hive fleets, Genestealer cults
Codex: Eldar Colonies
Craftworlders, Commorites, Harlequins, Exodites
Codex: Orkish Tribes
Goffs, Bad Moons, etc., gretchin empires
Codex: Necron Theocracy
The different C'tan and their forces, Adeptus Mechanicus
Codex: Star Union of Tau
Focus only on Tau
Codex: Pirates and Mercenaries
Eldar Corsairs, Rogue Traders, Ork Pirates, Kroot, Vespid, other alien units, special units for hire, much like in WHF but more generic

DYoung
08-04-2011, 14:06
This is how the range of 40k rulebooks should look:
Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook (includes rules for all expansions, flyers etc.)
Codex:Imperium (rules for fielding joint Imperial Armies including AdMech and Inquisition as well as options for straight Space Marines, Sisters etc. armies)
Codex:Space Marine Chapters (lists for all First Founding Chapters and any other notable ones including their special characters and units)
Codex: Eldar (includes Craftworld, Dark, Corsair and Exodite lists)
Codex: Orks (as is, maybe expand a bit on different clans)
Codex: Traitors and Renegades (rules for fielding Chaos armies that include Space Marines, Cultists, Traitor Guard etc. aswell as rules for non-Imperium human forces EDIT: Oh and Daemons)
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (lists for Traitor Legions and maybe some other Chaos Space Marines)
Codex: Tau (expand on auxiliary troops and maybe Battlesuit and AI units)
Codex: Tyranids (add more variety?)
This one is a little radical but, Codex: Xenos? Which would be rules for designing custom alien races

Think I got everything, say if I've forgotten anyone.

EDIT: Oh wait! I forgot Codex: Necrons

Scaryscarymushroom
08-04-2011, 17:08
Take out Dark Angels and Black Templars put in all in one space marine codex.

:eek: But Black Templar! They're my favorite! Next to grey knights anyway, which aren't really space marines (evidence in that you can't buy a tac squad and make it work for your grey knight army.)

I can't speak for everyone, but my personal level of interest in space marines warrants buying one army, using my favorite iconography, choosing a color scheme that has nothing to do explicitly with any chapter, and playing my favorite rules set.

Games Workshop won't get me to buy 20 space marine battleforces because I need 2 for 10 different chapters. Half of all 40k armies can be space marines; that's cool with me. But I'm not going to collect those armies for a loooong time because the model variation just isn't there.

Once players have options, it's a bad idea to take those options away. Keep all the armies in the game.


Codex: Orks (Goffs, Death Skullz, Bad Moon)- your 'standard' orks
Codex: Snakebites (and feral orks)- orks with thundasquigs and squigpriests
Codex: Speed Freeks- speedier orks and da BattleBirdy drop ship
Codex: Blood Axe- kommandos and taktikal know how orks

Codex: Craftworld Eldar (Ulthwe, Iyanden, Saim HannMalantai, Lugganath)
Codex: Biel Tann - featuring the Court and Exarch Executioner Squad
Codex: Altansar- featuring the Altansar Daemon-Eaters
Codex: Eldar Corsairs- featuring the Pirate Princes, exotic wargear and strange allies

Codex: Harlequins- the absolute baddest warriors in the galaxy!

Codex: Kabalite Eldar- these heavily armed, lightning fast archaeo-horrors strike terror across the galaxy,
Codex: Wych Cult- including charioteers and the beast masters.
Codex: Haemonculus Coven- build your own abomination rules!

Codex: Chaos Legions (Chaos space marines)
Codex: Warriors of Chaos (World Eaters & Death Guard)
Codex: Lords of Chaos (Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children)
Codex: Chaos Daemons
Codex: Cults of Chaos (Chaos cultists)

Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Genestealer Cults

Codex: Daemonhunters
Codex: Ordos Heretucus
Codex: Ordos Xenos
Codex: Imperial Guard
Codex: Space Marines (all the rules to play ultramarines, imperial fists, raven guard, white scars, space wolves, blood angels, dark angels, black templars, grey knights, iron hands, salamanders, and more!)

Whoa. Big list. But the imperial guard could use more attention. There are all kinds of guard. Chem dogs, vostroyan, steel legion, valhallan, etc. And there needs to be a Freebooterz codex for Orks too.

Oh, and you forgot Necrons, who should have at least two distinct codices. One that phases out and one that doesn't.

If every xenos species has 4 codices, why on earth would the space marines not have 4 books too?

This is ridiculous. I love it. And for good measure, all these books should be at least 100+ pages long right? :p

Vesica
08-04-2011, 18:47
Hmm interesting topic.

I'd say (in no real order)


Codex Space Marines
Non-Codex Space Marines (BA, DA, SW, BT and all others)
Forces of the Imperial Inqusition
Standard Imperial Guard
Non-standard Imperial Guard (Tanith etc)
Adeptus Mech
Chaos Legions (Chaos Legions/chapters and deamons)
Traitor Forces (Mutants, Chaos Imperial Guard and Cultists)
Eldar
Exodite Eldar
Dark Eldar
Orks
Tyranids
Tau
Necrons
Mercenaries


Not sure if i missed any races or factions, basically I would love to see more variety within each race, whilst not having a stupid amount of codexs (obviously the codexs would be larger.)

Supernaut
08-04-2011, 19:38
Hmm interesting topic.

I'd say (in no real order)


Codex Space Marines
Non-Codex Space Marines (BA, DA, SW, BT and all others)
Forces of the Imperial Inqusition
Standard Imperial Guard
Non-standard Imperial Guard (Tanith etc)
Adeptus Mech
Chaos Legions (Chaos Legions/chapters and deamons)
Traitor Forces (Mutants, Chaos Imperial Guard and Cultists)
Eldar
Exodite Eldar
Dark Eldar
Orks
Tyranids
Tau
Necrons
Mercenaries


Not sure if i missed any races or factions, basically I would love to see more variety within each race, whilst not having a stupid amount of codexs (obviously the codexs would be larger.)

Problem with this is, who's going to buy plain codex SM or plain IG, when you can buy a fancy variant for probably the same price and with better rules (probably).

SgtTaters
08-04-2011, 20:12
\Both these armies are divergent enough to warrant their own books.
Salamanders, White Scars, Ravenguard and Iron Hands are also divergent enough to warrant their own books, and if they had their own books they'd get their own wacky units to make them not-ultras.

but...

There's a unit entry in Codex: Generic Marines for space ghost flaming invulnerable space marines. That's a weirdly specific choice already, it wouldn't be too much of a change to add "space marines riding monsters" too.
World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Death Guard and Thousand Sons also share a single codex and they have a whoooole lot of potential divergence compared to loyalists.



I figure it is possible to fit all loyalists in one codex though
I guess I'd do it like this...

HQ
- Space marine commander(options unlock troop bikes, terminators, scoring veterans)
- Librarian (toss a fat template, flavor it to infernos for salamanders and wolf spirit wolf winds for space wolves)
*non slot choices
*apothecary as upgrade to HQ squad and Elite squads
*Honor Guard (sanguine guard, wolf guard, sword brethren, etc.)
*champion (lone wolf, emperor's champion, etc.)
- chaplain
- tech marine 0-3, master of the forge can be one of them
- psychic dread

Elite
- vets with options of ccw's, guns, bikes so you now have ravenwing and elite scars, transport, think Nobs in terms of options for one choice.
- terminators with all their options (troop them and you have deathwing)
- ven dread
- aberrations (death company, wulfen, crazed templars, flesh tearers). Feel no Pain, furious charge, rage, fearless.

Troop
- tac squad at 14pts
- assault marines (blood claws, sky claws, black templars, blood angels) can go in rhino or jump packs
- scouts

Fast Att
- bike squad (if you troop them, ravenwing and white scars)
- attack bike
- scout bike
- landspeeder variants
- monster rider marines (thunderwolves, salamanders riding salamanders, ravens riding ostriches, fists riding giant fists, etc.)
- infiltrator marines with option of stripping to scout armor for special deployment (wolf scouts, Shrike's ravenguard)

Heavy S
- Rhino chassis shooty vehicles (predator, vindicator, whirlwind)
- dreads, ironclad dreads
- storm raven
- devastators
- landraider

and as part of picking your Space Marine Commander, you can substitute combat tactics for...

-furious charge (Blood Angels and successors)
-counterattack (Space Wolves)
-stubborn (Fists, Black Templars)
-outflank (Scars, Alpha Legion)
-fleet (Ravenguard)

and then a buttload of special characters

This can represent any of the existing space marine codex's and their unique choices. It also allows greater flexibility for your own chapter of space marines.
What do you think?

Aluinn
08-04-2011, 20:24
No, but having a vastly different organisational structure, such as no Companies, no defined squad allocations, neophytes accompanying initiates rather than as seperate squads, the compulsory presence of an Emperors Champion and a complete lack of Librarians do. They're just as divergant as the Space Wolves, in that they follow the codex in exactly zero ways.

Seriously, if you think that having 6 times as many Marines is the only way Black Templars differ from other Chapters, you need to have a look at their codex. They can't be folded in.

Have to agree with this post. If you think it's necessary to ask whether DA or BT need separate codexes, then it's a bit odd not to ask the same of BA or, to a lesser extent (as they are the chapter most divergent from the Codex Astartes) SW.

BA are considered a codex chapter and, as such, aren't especially more divergent than DA or BT. Their shtick, in a nutshell, is essentially to have more jump packs, and to have the Red Thirst/Black Rage, which are both fairly chapter-tactic type things which can simply affect units already included in any SM army. (Assault Marines as Troops, the Red Thirst rule to replace Combat Tactics, and the ability to upgrade some Assault Marines to Death Company would leave them covered fairly well if you wanted to go the minimalist route.)

Also, I'm a bit puzzled by the whole argument that 40K has too many Marines, and the solution is to ... make more books featuring Chaos Marines. I realize that people who play Chaos Marines may, subjectively, find them very unique and interesting, and that's fine or even good, but adding Legion books to replace Chapter books would change the situation pretty much not at all for those of us who aren't interested in Marines, period.

Jack of Blades
08-04-2011, 20:29
Also, I'm a bit puzzled by the whole argument that 40K has too many Marines, and the solution is to ... make more books featuring Chaos Marines. I realize that people who play Chaos Marines may, subjectively, find them very unique and interesting, and that's fine or even good, but adding Legion books to replace Chapter books would change the situation pretty much not at all for those of us who aren't interested in Marines, period.

And if you aren't interested in marines that's half the range gone... I mean come on. There are obviously too many books of them out there, either that or too few & outdated xenos books.

PyroSikTh
08-04-2011, 20:36
In my opinion it should be;

Forces of the Imperium
- Space Marines
- Imperial Guard
- Inquisition
- Skitarii

Forces of Chaos
- Chaos Space Marines
- Lost and the Damned
- Chaos Daemons

Eldar
- Eldar
- Dark Eldar
- Harlequins
- Exodites

Tyranids
- including Genestealer Cults

Necrons

Tau
- Tau
- Kroot
- Demiurg
- other miscellaneous Xenos allies

Orks
- including Rebel Grots

That would cover everything and wouldn't give too many codices to just one side of the coin.

Yunaris
08-04-2011, 21:21
Chaos really need a single book, especially if it can encourage a return to single god armies. I really feel it's a huge loss to the game that they've become so rare. Space Marines definitely need swapped back to smaller mini codexes to expand the chapters and not fluff slaughtering full codexes.

Bunnahabhain
08-04-2011, 21:51
Assuming that we stay with books, not online PDFs, which is in itself a mistake...

Orks
Nids
Necrons
Tau Empire
Eldar, inc exodites
Dark Eldar ( I can't think how to unify the Eldar books any more.

Big book of Chaos- cults, marines, daemons
Imperial Guard
Forces of the Inquistion - Inquisitors, sisters, grey knights, weird stuff.
Big book of all Marines

I think that balances the xeno/imperium, and power armour/ soft stuff ratios.
EDIT: And the rest gets left to FW...

TheLaughingGod
09-04-2011, 00:13
Imperium:
Codex: Space Marines (Ultras, White Scars, Imperial Fists, etc)
Codex: Angels of Death (Dark Angels and Blood Angels)
Codex: Artifice and Wrath (Space Wolves and Salamanders)
Codex: Knights of the Emperor (Grey Knights and Black Templar)
Codex: Imperial Guard
Codex: Tech-Priests of the Omnissiah
Codex: Sisters of Battle
Codex: Allies of the Imperium (Inquisitors, Assassins, human/alien mercenaries, Deathwatch, Exorcists, ally rules)

Chaos:
Codex: The Lost and the Damned (Chaos Cult list, Chaos Guard)
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (Chaos Renegades)
Codex: Chaos Legions (Original Legion Chaos Marines)
Codex: Allies of Chaos (Daemons, cultists/heretics, warpspawn)

Eldar:
Codex: Craftworld Eldar (Ulthwe, Iyanden, Sam-hain, etc)
Codex: Exodites
Codex: Dark Eldar
Codex: Allies of the Eldar (Harlequins, Corsairs, Outcasts & Exiles)

Orks:
Codex: Orks (Orks)
Codex: Choppas 'n' Teef (Blood Axes and Freebootas)
Codex: Feral Orks

Tau:
Codex: Tau Empire
Codex: Farsight Enclave
Codex: Kroot Shaperates
Codex: Demiurg Consortium
Codex: Allies of the Tau Empire (Kroot, Zoats, Demiurg, Vespid, etc)

Necrons:
Codex: Necrons
Codex: The Decieved (Pariah-heavy Human forces who worship the Necrons)

Tyranids:
Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Genestealer Cult

I think I got everything.
Note that I removed the Inquistion as an army, because they are NOT an army. They are a small collective of nearly indepedent agents

Gatsby
09-04-2011, 01:38
Honestly, if not for the codex creep, I wouldn't mind having a 10 year old codex so long as it remained viable, then they could make as many other variant lists as they wanted.

AlexHolker
09-04-2011, 08:59
There's a unit entry in Codex: Generic Marines for space ghost flaming invulnerable space marines. That's a weirdly specific choice already, it wouldn't be too much of a change to add "space marines riding monsters" too.
The book is not about being generic, it's about representing the hundreds of chapters that closely follow the Codex Astartes. The Legion of the Damned is not limited to supporting any one chapter, therefore it either goes in the Codex Astartes book or the Imperial Allies book.


Honestly, if not for the codex creep, I wouldn't mind having a 10 year old codex so long as it remained viable, then they could make as many other variant lists as they wanted.
There's also the issues of miniatures support (which these days is sparse outside of Codex releases and second waves) and compatibility with the rules.

otakuzoku
09-04-2011, 10:30
Next edition

core rules largely the same as 5th ed

New codex for each army simultaneous relice.

Design the game to work at 3 different points leviles (refereed to as tiers ) with septate Foc and rules for each

Tier 1 - Skirmish level up 1000 points no or very limited heavy support 1 HQ. designed to promote fast attack.

Tire 2 – BATTLE 1001 – 2000 points standard games

Tire 3 – WAR 2001 – 3000 to include spearhead tank battles

Apocalypse Tire general 3001+ points.

Reassess what each army is supposed to be and go back to basics a bit more.

5 should be the highest. Any thing more should be dealt with buy special rules

Space marine the Balanced army though there 3+ but not super effective at every thing
Eldar – specialist in given fields, high initiative low toughness
Orks – high weapon skill, low BS
Tau – powerful weapons, average BS, low WS – lots of special rules like jump,shoot,jump
Chaos – like space marines but evil
guard strength in numbers, and there tanks
ECT ect

No named characters on the field

Options to play different ways 1) move-shoot-assault like we have now 2) reaction - move, move, shoot, shoot 3) I don’t know its just an idea.

Changes would affect how you play and in turn affect what you field. And as a bonus for GW sell more models

then it should be decided what codex are folded in to larger ones

Artein
09-04-2011, 11:37
Codex: Space Marines - if possible with every chapter including BA, DA, BT and SW but not GK.

Codex: Imperial Guard

Codex: Sisters of Battle - maybe

Codex: Eldar

Codex: Dark Eldar

Codex: Orks

Codex: Necrons

Codex: Tyranids

Codex: Tau

Codex: CSM

Codex: Traitor Guard - maybe

Codex: Allies - with possible allies to all armies, Inquisition, Assassins, AdMech for Imperial armies, Harlequins, maybe Exodites for Eldar armies, Genestealer cult for Tyranids.... maybe daemons for CSM and Traitor Guard?

Ivellis
09-04-2011, 12:13
Space Marines and Xenos. They're all faceless soon-to-be-corpses to the marines right?

Seriously though, I'd like the game to be severely cut down on amount of books and just make those books big.

Codex: Imperium - Enough options to make any SM chapter, an IG army or an Inquistion army. Or a combination of any of the three.

Codex: Hordes of Chaos - Basically allow chaos marines, both renegades and legions, traitor guard, mutants, daemons, etc.

Codex: Eldar - Should have builds for Dark Eldar, Craftworld Eldar, Exodites and Harlequins. Craftworld and Dark Eldar cannot be combine, but the others can.

Codex: Tau Empire - Make lots of other xenos builds viable such as demiurg, kroot and maybe even vespid.

Codex: Tyranids - Just make it better.

Codex: Orks - Let people field all elements of ork society from snotling to squiggoth.

Codex: Necrons - Uhhh, expand them I guess?

Every book would have many different force organization charts depending on the type of force the player is creating. Also would be used to stop Chaos or Imperium from lacking any weaknesses.

Notanoob
09-04-2011, 18:15
Perhaps a Codex: "Minor Xenos" is in order, but by no means should Tau be the focus when there are other more wide-spread races like the Hrud, as has been pointed out. A minor xenos book wouldn't be a bad idea, I was just sort of sticking with what we already had, and there is room to expand the Tau alien allies.


Tyranids and Necrons are about as opposite as you can be thematically. Tyranids and Orks are both close combat and horde oriented. Necrons are the opposite. If we're going the "superdex" route and Necrons don't receive a significant expansion of models/unit entries, the best place for them is in Codex: Minor Xenos. This is even appropriate as per the fluff, since the Imperium has had less contact with them than it has with even the Tau.
Not quite. While yes, they're opposites in playstyle, they're very similar in goals, that is, the total destruction of all (other) life. They're both relentless and unyielding, ancient and unknown horrors from beyond.

And while yes they have very different playstyles, this has been done before. In codex Angels of Death, Blood Angels were basically assault oriented space marines while the Dark Angels were basically shooting oriented space marines, ie opposites. And in the new GK book, you can have an Inquisition force or a GK force, both of which will play very differently.