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Methios
13-04-2011, 21:04
Im fairly new to warhammer.
But it looks like Destruction side has quiet a few heavy mellee hitters:
WoC
Deamons.
Beastmen

All pack quite a punch in mellee.

The oder side has like
Lizard
Dwarf.

Dwarf isnt realy spectacular with their 1 attack. No monsters and no cav.
And lizard has low WS. and the entire army is build around the Slann.

What is supposed to be the mellee army for order?

Ludaman
13-04-2011, 21:14
Depends on what you mean, if you're just talking about straight str/toughness/attacks, then yeah Dwarfs and Lizardmen are the two best, however for overall effectiveness in combat there are so many variables it's hard to say. Dwarfs are a pretty safe bet for a new army if you're making one. They are quite solid in the new edition.

Forsak3n
13-04-2011, 21:25
the best melee army in the forces of order would probably be dwarfs, HE, and LM.

dwarfs with GW are common, they hit at Str5 and still have a decent AS for a rank n' file troop.

HE troops have ASF and a high Int giving them the ability to strike first and help reduce the number of attacks back at them.

LM's standard Saurus Warrior has a higher then average Strength and Toughness with 2 attacks each.

Lukasz_VT
13-04-2011, 21:52
Ogres, if you pay 'em!

Malorian
13-04-2011, 21:58
If you like great weapon dwarfs then you should also like great swords.

White lions are number one in my book though. Pretty hard to beat them.


Edit:

High Elves
Empire
Dwarfs

The bearded one
13-04-2011, 22:11
Dwarfs are better than greatswords because they're tougher. T4 all-round does a lot to increase your combat viability. That, in my opinion, is one of their greatest strengths. That, and their enormous acces to great weapons. Every dwarf unit apart from thunderers and ironbreakers has acces to a great weapon.

And if there is something scary out there that can wreak havoc on the dwarven infantry ( like monsters ), they shoot a hole in it with cannons :)

High elves are good hitters, great hitters, amazing hitters in fact, because they almost always reroll to hit with high strenght weapons ( white lions, swordmasters ) , with decent strenght and very good defence ( phoenix guard ) or with boatloads of attacks ( large units of spearelves ). Their greatest weakness lies in their low toughness. If things strike back at them, they will die quikly.

Saurus are tough, lots of attacks and hit hard. They're just slow ( initiative 1!! ) and have a pretty low weaponskill. Templeguard are pretty good. They're just a bit slower and have lower weaponskill but are otherwise as strong as chaos warriors with halberds.


Fluffwise the evil side tends to have the things that rip apart regiments of men with a single hew, in order to be scary and fill their quota of weak human footsoldiers killed. Evil guys tend to hew apart regular good guys ( humans ) with ease to lend credibility to their threatyness. Either that or they outnumber them 2 to 1. Possibly both.

Evil also has the worst combat troops. Skaven(slaves), goblins, zombies, skeletons, gnoblars, etc.

AFnord
13-04-2011, 22:14
I don't think it is a good idea to talk about the forces of order or destruction in the first place. All the races have their own thing going, and most of them can't stand each other. The way they handled it in Warhammer online was one that does not really work with the established background. Orcs, chaos & Dark elves, all fighting side by side? *blinks*

And lizard has low WS. and the entire army is build around the Slann.
Low WS & I, but A2, T4 & S4, which makes saurus warriors great in close combat. And the entire army is not built around the slann, you can build effective armies without one. Lizardmen don't really like the younger races (if they move out of their designated home)

I think you are fixating a bit too much on stats and don't take points & special rules into consideration. Dwarves might only have A1 (which is standard, by the way), but they are tough as nails. High elves might have A1, T3 & S3, but they have always strike first, are cheaper than daemons & warriors of chaos, and they fight in more ranks. (Dwarves & elves don't really like each other, and would prefer not to fight alongside unless they have a really good reason to do so).

The bearded one
13-04-2011, 22:27
Dwarfs and elves can reasonably get along in the "present", more so if the empire acts as the middle man. The dwarven grudges against the elves have been settled when they took the Phoenix crown as payment, they just don't trust them anymore ( and probably never will ).

The dark elves have used Chaos and the greenskins before in their invasions of Ulthuan. Chaos would happily cooporate without any real difficulty. The greenskins not really, they had to be taught with the lash. But if the dark elves gave them a fun task ( like killing high elves or chopping down trees ) they'd go at it with great enthousiasm. The dark elves could easily goad the simpleminded/stupid greenskins into doing what they wanted.

Warhammer online may have some mistakes in their representation of the lore, but they in fact have quite an eye for nice details. In fact last week I spotted the rune ( a rune which few people would recognise. Most people would probably recognise the Karaz-a-karak rune ) that represents Barak Varr on the side of an ironclad dwarfship in the Barak Varr area. They also had the Orc warlord that destroyed the Mourkain people ( human civilisation founded by Kadon ( who found Nagash's crown after Alcadizaars death ) I believe ) in the marshes of madness. Dork redeye IIRC. A vampire had raised the Orc's corpse :)

Tokamak
13-04-2011, 22:31
The Dwarfs and Elves really needed that feud in order to make the battles against each other more probable and believable with them being both the old and wise races etc.

The bearded one
13-04-2011, 22:34
with "the battles" I assume you are referring to the war of vengeance? Or do you mean that their feud makes fights between dwarf and elf players more believable fluffwise?

Korraz
13-04-2011, 22:37
WAIT, STOP.
There are no sides in Warhammer. Everyone stands alone. No sides. There is no "order" or "destruction", no "good" or "evil."

It's also written with one L. Melee.

Malorian
13-04-2011, 22:38
Dwarfs are better than greatswords because they're tougher.

But great swords have access to get hatred. (And not just against greenskins.)

Tokamak
13-04-2011, 22:44
with "the battles" I assume you are referring to the war of vengeance? Or do you mean that their feud makes fights between dwarf and elf players more believable fluffwise?

Just games between dwarfs and elves. Without the history it wouldn't feel that right.

GodlessM
13-04-2011, 22:49
High Elves hands down. Usually re-rolling to hit S6 White Lions or 2A S5 Swordsmasters brutalise anything they touch that doesn't squish them with impact hits first.

Kevlar
13-04-2011, 23:08
Brets hit pretty hard. Almost the whole army is str 5!

The bearded one
14-04-2011, 00:07
But great swords have access to get hatred. (And not just against greenskins.)

I'd still say T4 is better in general. It reduces the number of casualties taken. My great weapon horde tends to win combats anyway, so the added survivability is better than more killing power.

That's not to say greatswords don't have their uses. They're stubborn and have a 4+ armoursave.

WoodElfGeneral
14-04-2011, 23:33
I don't really know who is the best, i just know it's not WE;)

zerorocky
15-04-2011, 01:57
The rulebook divides the different races into Order, Destruction, and Neutral, for those of you who think that only Warhammer Online has done that. Check the rules for team play.

Lizardmen have probably the best melee on Order with Saurus Warriors and Temple Guard. And you can have a successful army without a Slann, at least at lower point values. Load up on Warriors, Guards, Kroxigors, and Cold One Riders and you have a melee army that can match up to Warriors of Chaos.

High Elves are very effective also, but are a different kind of melee. Quick and accurate as opposed to tough and Brutal.

Methios
15-04-2011, 07:33
The rulebook divides the different races into Order, Destruction, and Neutral,
-------

Thats what i ment.
From a fluff point of view i dont realy like to play evil.
Cause being evil in warhammer means your almost utterly insane :).

I would preffer highpoint wariors. (like Wariors of chaos) but there are no non-evil minnies that come close to them.

Dwarfs need some diversity, then ill consider them.
wariors/longbears/ironbreakers/hammers feek like the same unit. with 1 point of stat here or there diffrence. :)

Lord of Divine Slaughter
15-04-2011, 10:24
Get a few games under your belt and learn to know the subtleties of the game. Warhammer is primarily determined in close combat, so all armies work there. Some are very straight forward and simple like beasts and WoC with their fancy high strength and toughness, others need a few extra layers of tactics like a little added magic and/or movement.

You'll find that playing a 'simple' army is quite fun for the beginner, but after a few battles the game grows stale, and armies with the extra layers of shooting, magic, movement and demand of synergy will start to seem appealing, as you need to challenge yourself a bit more.

Besides, who the biggest badass is, will go up and down constantly, so choose your army based on its models, those will last forever :)

koran
15-04-2011, 10:51
Im shocked that chaos isnt in there. With access to the devastating power of chaos warriors (I5 with so many attacks or very high strength (but they strike last)) T4 a great save and access to marks to do even more damage or to be harder to kill. They can also take the vastly undercosted marauders with a choice of weapons. I dont see much competition against these guys in terms of melee.

Lord of Divine Slaughter
15-04-2011, 11:08
Im shocked that chaos isnt in there. With access to the devastating power of chaos warriors (I5 with so many attacks or very high strength (but they strike last)) T4 a great save and access to marks to do even more damage or to be harder to kill. They can also take the vastly undercosted marauders with a choice of weapons. I dont see much competition against these guys in terms of melee.

I guess, you haven't read the thread then :p;)

Not a word to the elf.
15-04-2011, 13:08
As has been said before high elf elite infantry is very fighty.

Koran; I must have missed the part where warriors of chaos were written as part of order, could you please point me to the page in the BRB :) :D

BooTMGSG
15-04-2011, 13:16
Difficult to say which is the best in combat, because a lot do combat differently.
Some follow the Zap Branigan school of warfare, sending wave after wave of men and hope that their oponent runs out of breath.
Some go for the slow and steady grind.
Some hit like a brick
Some beardless twig boys go for fancy dancing skills with the vain hope that they take down their enemies before they get their nails chipped.

All armies of order can be great at CC, well cept the beardless twig boys with bows. They just hide in the woods, but a good axe can sort that out.

koran
15-04-2011, 14:33
Oh, my bad.... I dont know how I read this thread and missed out on that bit :p I need to wake up more before posting in future.