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harlequin76
13-04-2011, 20:34
hi guys!
i am new and all to the forum but not really new to the hobby.
after 4 years in 40k i decided to go with fantasy, after a year of jumping armies ( 1 box there 1 box here) i decided to finaly go with beastmen.
my question is what would be the best way to go with them? battalion?
i read many tactic threads some say bestigors suck some they rock
and i am confused :S
i really like the bestigor models. also i know this a newb question but beastmen fur doesnt count as armor right :P

if i got it correctly beastmen are fast moving melee oriented with a nice magic phase?

another important question , can the beastmen army under a good commander be able to beat any other army?


thanks in advance!
and if its in the wrong forum i am really sorry.

harlequin76.

Eta
13-04-2011, 20:45
One or two batallion boxes are a good way to start Beastmen. You can convert a character or two out of these, too.

A good site for aspiring Beastmen players is the Herdstone, a forum frequented by very experienced Beastmen generals: http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/

minionboy
13-04-2011, 20:50
Eta has it. Get 2 batallion boxes and buy or convert a character. Check out the herdstone to go on from there.

Makaber
13-04-2011, 22:00
What you pretty much can't go wrong with is Gors and Bestigors. They, and to a lesser degree Ungors, will form your battle line.

The thing with Beastmen is, the troops might not look that good on paper, but once you factor in Primal Fury (giving them rerolls to hit most of the time), they become great at grinding down the enemy. However, since they're very lightly armoured, you'll find they work best in big regiments.

So, as others have said already, look at getting a pair of batallion boxes and work from there.

To answer your questions:

No, beastmen fur doesn't count as armour. Gors, the standard core infantry, are unarmoured, which is their biggest weakness. You can give them shields, although it is generally aknowledged that they're a lot better with additional hand weapons. Bestigors are the most heavily armoured beastmen, but even then, they only have heavy armour for a 5+ save. As a funfact, you can actually upgrade the fur on one of your characters to being so hard it grants a scaly skin save. ;)

Beastmen as a whole are a fairly fast army that favours an aggressive playstyle. Although they typically don't have a lot of cavalry, their infantry is a respectable Move 5. They don't have a strong magic phase the same way Lizardmen for example have, but they've got access to a very good magic item letting you field a "battery" of wizards generating extra power dice. This way, they can overwhelm the opposition with cheap hexes and augmenting spells, which work very well in synergy with the troops.

I believe a good Beastmen general is capable of beating anyone. However, if winning is your main goal I'd look elsewhere, they're not the best army around and take quite a bit of practice to get the hang of. That said, I believe they're extremely underrated. And, most importantly, tremendeously fun.

Tokamak
13-04-2011, 22:02
Go to town on warhounds. That unit has the most surface per price so you quickly have a large looking army.

And they're of course mightily annoying to your opponent.

popisdead
13-04-2011, 22:38
I recommend two Batallions as a good starting place, then another box of Beastigors.

You want a good block of 30+ gors, 30+ Ungors (feel free to take 10 and make them Raiders, but I still run 10 raiders and an 40 ungor block), and 25+ Beastigors.

I've been running 30 Beastigors, nearly 40 gors, and 50 ungors (10 of which are Raiders, the rest are just my 5x8 Steadfast block of HW/Sh) couple chariots, some Razogors and Harpies.

I've been building 10 RnF ungors to ambush (just to try even though the table punishes the Beastmen general to use) as that's only 53 pts with a musician, the same cost as a spawn/Razorgor and those are handy to have too.

mrtn
14-04-2011, 21:44
i read many tactic threads some say bestigors suck some they rock
and i am confused :S
Look at the date of the tactic thread you're reading. Bestigors wasn't very good a year ago, but now in 8th edition they are very good. I understand that it can be confusing. :)

Other than that the other guys have covered your questions I think. Welcome to the furry and horny side!

Methios
15-04-2011, 06:40
On a side note, its my understanding that beastmen have problems against armies with lots of shooting.
Dwarfs for example.

dragonet111
15-04-2011, 07:13
On a side note, its my understanding that beastmen have problems against armies with lots of shooting.
Dwarfs for example.

Every armies have problem against dwarf gunlines this days :)

Harwammer
15-04-2011, 08:01
On a side note, its my understanding that beastmen have problems against armies with lots of shooting.
Dwarfs for example.

Firstly, beastmen don't really suffer to shooting in general (well not more than most other armies), it's just minotaurs and the big gribblies that are vulnerable. Generally beastmen players are recommended to start with regular infantry instead of the minotaur variants as these are 1) easiest to get to grips with, 2) will normally form the core of the army and 3) are the only way to get additional magic banners.

Secondly beastmen have MANY ways to deal with shooting. They're fast so they get into combat easily. There is the Dark Chalice magic item that helps weather the round of shooting before charging. Hounds and raiders make good screens. Harpies and ambushed raiders are both cheap and effective war machine hunters. Slugtongue can do damage to the opponent before the game even begins.

Essentially you often won't have to worry about shooting more than any other army will unless you knowingly build a weakness to it into your list (minotaurs, monsters or excessive T4 chariots).

Methios
15-04-2011, 09:20
Im not a beastmen player.
But if i look at stats most do not have higher then t4 and litle or no armor save.

Makes for juicy targets during the shooting fase imo :)

Artinam
15-04-2011, 09:24
One could claim that Skaven are vulnerable to shooting as well. Beastmen similarly make up with larger units.

Leogun_91
15-04-2011, 09:32
Im not a beastmen player.
But if i look at stats most do not have higher then t4 and litle or no armor save.

Makes for juicy targets during the shooting fase imo :)Indeed they do but ambushing, high move and helpful items help. Chalice of dark rain and the pelt of the shadowgave is the most obvious ones but letting a bray shaman with the skin of man use his shadow lore ability to trade place with a flying beastlord with a 4+ wardsave to get a quick charge against the warmachines can also be a very fun tactic (can also work if both sit in chariots).

Methios
15-04-2011, 09:41
Intresting.
Does de ambush ability actualy get used? since the armybook>rule book, isnt the beastmen ambush random?

The version i read in the beastmen book said you should role a d6.. and on 1-2 nothing happends. 3 - right side 4 - left side (in example.)
Or did that get errata'd?

Mavir
15-04-2011, 09:41
Hope you like the beastmen so far, if you have indeed had any games using them (reprisenting with other models from other armies is always fun XD) you will see bestigor are good, I played the old beastmen and the new in both sets of fantasy rules (recent ones). First the minos were weak compared to gors in the old rules, I just went for an all out ambushing army with as little as i could on my battle line, in the new rules I take a mino unit of 5 with a doombull, a 30 strong unit of bestigor and then fill the points up with heroes and core. Ambushing raiders are worth the 60 points that they cost, and scouting harpies are really quite nice as you take the opponant by suprise. charging and killing war machine crew turn two is always nice. you want to get at least one gor unit behind them if you can/have the chance, gives you a nice ammount of attacks and if you can kill some of the unit you charge behind before you get there (magic shooting ext) then your looking at a win XD I personally prefer building mine box by box, might cost a little more in the long run, but i get bored easy when painting and if i just have 10/20 guys to make and paint, i find it much easier XD

Lord_Byron
15-04-2011, 09:41
Once you've gotten your blocks of troops sorted out it would be wise to invest in a few razorgor. Individual razorgor are guided missiles best aimed at enemy ranged units and vulnerable characters (wizards) hiding in blocks of infantry. If you buy a box of savage orc boar boyz and some 50mm bases you can convert the boars into 5 razorgors for the price of 1 metal one. The orcs will look good decorating your bases as casualties too.

I just started giving the razorgor a try myself, and I have to tell you I can't imagine bringing less than 2 in any sized battle ever again. They really are fantastic.

Mavir
15-04-2011, 09:42
on a 1, the opponant chooses a board edge, 2-3, they come next turn, 4, left side, 5, right side and 6, ANYWHERE

harlequin76
15-04-2011, 16:59
tnx alot guys :) another question are the centigors any good? i really like the models ( so ill probbaly get some after i my main herd) i also like ghorros warhoof he sounds pretty nuts.
on a T4 and sv 4+ (spear and shield and light armor) + ghorros giving a magic res 2 they are abit more reselient although they will be like almost 370 points?
also with abit luck with the drunken effect if u get a 1-2 , and get the primal fury it can be devestating :)
also after reading most of the comments here , i understand that beastmen and armor arent friends so a 4+ is pretty good in beastmen standards i guess?
questions is it smart to invest in centigors? cause they cost alot of points and money :( but look awesome

mrtn
15-04-2011, 17:10
There are some players that have had good results with centigors. Personally I think they're too expensive, if I get any more I'll convert some from marauder horsemen.

Check the battle reports by Memnos for example.

harlequin76
15-04-2011, 19:55
mrtn can u give me a link to one battle report?

popisdead
15-04-2011, 22:50
I like Centigors quite a bit. Even just 5 w/ a Musician but I've fielded 9+Ghorros (is power) and it beat up a unit of Khorne Knights (got Miasma on thier init and mine was boosted) but that was kinda lucky as it was a line of 9 and I was in the flank.

As far as the current army playing goes, I'd recommend 3-4 Razorgors more. I built mine out of the new Orc Boar boyz (making a proper 50 mm square base with cavalry bases sideways), and I run either three singles or two 2x1 trains.

Razorgors in general are more useful in your army than Minotaurs.

mrtn
16-04-2011, 00:24
mrtn can u give me a link to one battle report?

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294669

Memnos
18-04-2011, 09:29
I love Centigors. I've found that a small unit of 125 is almost ideal for what I want to do.

They're cheap. They're great anti-Mage throwaway units with a Wyssan's on them and they've got a decent armour save when they're not forced to take a ton of attacks. Usually by hitting a flank. They will hit war machines turn 2. They can wreak havoc with fast cavalry.

Centigors, for me, are all about target saturation. Yes, they'll be wiped out many times. At 125 points for a very solid core, however, I find they're amazing.

Jind_Singh
18-04-2011, 09:38
(I just wrote this on another thread, but seems applicable for this one too)

I know a couple of strong Beastmen players - they do well, their armies look fantastic (there's one dude who lurks on Warseer, he has an amazing Blue Beastmen army (dedicated to Tzeentch), and does well during Tournaments here locally.

His army was the only army to soundly beat me when I won a tournament, with the older O & G book in 8th ed. I faced Warriors of Chaos (top list army), and Vampire Counts, both led by GREAT generals, solid lists - smashed them both aside.

In fact the beastmen player's win against me nearly lost me the event that day - and he does well more often than not.

Is his army the so called spam army? Not really!

Characters: Some solid selections of characters to choose for the army, and the choice will also dictate your play style/list. Somewhat decent selection of special characters too, but they are lacking models for some of the new ones they invented

Magic: Well what can I say? Played right the Beastmen can drown the enemy with a flood of power dice - and thanks to the fact they have TWO decent colleges of magic AND their own lore - not bad at all!

The item 'herdstone' adds a ton of dice to the pool, so it's easy to ensure a high number of dice per turn to pull of the spells.

The actual lore of Beastmen is a bit tricky though - takes a lot of getting used to, but some nice spells in there.

Viletide - seems lame with 5D6 str1 hits - but factor in a cool item that allows you to re-roll wounds caused by spells, and an item that allows you to cast the same spell as a bound item - 10D6 str 1 hits, re-rolling to wound anyone? Assuming 7 is most common roll on 2D6, we have 35 hits, 6 wounds. Re-roll them and you get 5 more wounds - so 11 wounds per average - even Chaos Knights will lose one or two of their members to such a spell - and one is cast at bound level 3, the other is power level 7! So cheap way to cause some good damage!

Bray Scream - big deal they say, breath weapon at str 3 - oh boo hoo! Well what about when the character is IN CLOSE COMBAT! Yeah suckers, 2D6 hits ON TOP OF his mutated attacks? Huh?! And then you can buff him with the Mantle of Ghorok to add D6 str AND attacks! Whut WHAT?!

Nothing wrong with Devolve

Nothing wrong with savage dominion

Traitor Kin could be decent - so long as the enemy player has units that can be affected, so really it's just Bestial Surge which looks like it sucks - but you could add in a magic item that makes whole bunches of beastmen units surge forward with a bound spell, the actual spell will do it again. Not sure why this is a good idea - in the olden days the Lore of Beasts had a spell that allowed mounted/chariot/monster units to charge in the magic phase, this has gone now - but it does move a section of your army up pretty fast if that is your idea of a good time!!!

Combine the Beastmen lore with the lore of beasts and we're cooking! Re-roll to wound with the bolt thrower spell, or the 2D6 str 2 spell with your above combos and we're looking at dead suckers all over the place!

Combat

True the Beastmen don't take much of a punch, but they can dish it out! Sadly they ain't the cheapest troops in the world so it's rare when your steadfast - but you can kick seven kinds of crap out of most enemy with your units:

Besitgors - savage!
Minotaurs - REALLY savage!
Razorgors - savage
Chariots - savage
Gors - can be savage if they are got their hate on, and a timely buff with either characters/magic to help them out



And then there are some items to help prolong the lives of the troops from shooting, etc, there's ambush, there are scouting harpies (if that's your idea of a good time), so I don't see why there is so much hate on for the book - I'm guessing it's because there is no 'clear road to victory' hence people hate on it.

But then there are people hating on the new Orcs & Goblins book.

I'm sure there are already haters for the new Tomb Kings book

And there's haters all over the place - tell them to kiss it!

BEASTMEN!!

POWER-BLEAT!! BAAAAAA!!!!