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kaubin
14-04-2011, 05:06
I was just wondering, according to the faq it states that the cauldron is a war machine, but that the crew instead of having just 1 attack, has 2 per attendants, 3 for the death hag, and they each get an additional attack if they have frenzy. I was just wondering if they recieve extra attacks, either via their own blessing or through the death hag's rune that gives more attacks, are the attacks lost due to the original limit placed on attacks they can make, or do they get monster amounts of attacks against their 6 opponents?

Gooner
14-04-2011, 21:23
I dont think it actually says anywhere, but in my opinion if she wasnt aloud to gain extra attacks from a magic item then she wouldnt be aloud to have it. And I believe in the entry it says they can cast the buff on themselves in the book. I dont have it with me but that in turn would give precident to it being aloud considering it isnt mentioned in the FAQ's.

Personly in most cases buffing itself would be a waste so I believe it should be aloud to ( I like having a almost unkillable BSB). 13 poisoned attacks vs 6 enemies attacking before them i most cases. plus they gained a 4+ ward save

tmarichards
14-04-2011, 23:24
Only the Hag would benefit from the Rune of Khaine. In reality, however, that 25pts can be spent much better elsewhere.

GodlessM
15-04-2011, 01:23
The simple answers is no they can still benefit as the Cauldron gives the unit +1A not the Extra Attacks special rule.

kaubin
15-04-2011, 02:37
i'm not sure I explained it properly. With 8th edition, the crew doesn't actually make attacks, according to the rule book, on page 110, the warmachine itself makes attacks based on the amount of surviving crew, using their WS, S, and initiative. Thanks to the new FAQ for the dark elves, at least now they can have 10 attacks when frenzied (the faq says it is like a war machine, but get 2 attacks per attendant and 3 for the death hag (7 war machine attacks), and then adds 1 war machine attack for each remaining crew if the unit is still frenzied, for a total of 10 war machine attacks.)

Therefore, even if the Death Hag does get +d3 attacks, it doesn't affect the war machine`s attacks based on the rules, and at the very most, it sounds like only 1 attack could be gained from the blessing, since the only model making attacks is the war machine with the new rules, if I have interpreted them right...is this the case in the new edition? And if this is so, the rule book does not specify which model's WS, S and Initiative is used. In that case would we use the highest value, with all the attacks at strength 4?

AMWOOD co
15-04-2011, 06:16
i'm not sure I explained it properly. With 8th edition, the crew doesn't actually make attacks, according to the rule book, on page 110, the warmachine itself makes attacks based on the amount of surviving crew, using their WS, S, and initiative.

Looking at p110, I also see that Attacks and Leadership are included among the things that are used from the crew. Therefore, the abilities of the crew themselves are considered for attacking as if they were separate models (like chariot crew) but not when being attacked.

sulla
15-04-2011, 07:52
i'm not sure I explained it properly. With 8th edition, the crew doesn't actually make attacks, according to the rule book, on page 110, the warmachine itself makes attacks based on the amount of surviving crew, using their WS, S, and initiative. Thanks to the new FAQ for the dark elves, at least now they can have 10 attacks when frenzied (the faq says it is like a war machine, but get 2 attacks per attendant and 3 for the death hag (7 war machine attacks), and then adds 1 war machine attack for each remaining crew if the unit is still frenzied, for a total of 10 war machine attacks.)

The attendants and hag also have extra hand weapons (see unit entry on pg93 too). So until they lose frenzy, the hags have 4 attacks and the hag has 5.

tmarichards
15-04-2011, 11:58
The additional hand weapons have actually been removed by the FAQ.

theunwantedbeing
15-04-2011, 12:11
They haven't actually.
They weren't present on page 51, and that was all that was replaced.

However they are listed as equiptment on page 93, so they still exist and nothing prevents war machine crew from using their equiptment.
Well, I don't think so anyway.

tmarichards
15-04-2011, 13:45
Well I've been doing myself over... I concede the point. Moral of the story, read the rules before posting... for about 6 months I was convinced the Cauldron was a large target.

Steam_Giant
15-04-2011, 14:41
So the Cauldron has 13 S4 poison Attacks ?

theunwantedbeing
15-04-2011, 15:00
So the Cauldron has 13 S4 poison Attacks ?

8 of those are only st3, but yeah.
It can hit pretty hard, but...well, doesn't help in the least vs 1+ saves.
Or if the enemy is st5 and wounds it on a 2+

Or heaven forbid, the enemy throws something like purple sun across the table at it.

Sylass
15-04-2011, 15:19
Yep, the couldron is quite capable of defending itself against the common war machine hunters. Lights cav, scouting skirmishers or small flying units (example: harpies) don't really need to show up and hope to stand a great chance fighting it. You'll need something tough (still need to watch out for poison!) and/or armoured to get rid of it.

Sabe
15-04-2011, 16:41
Even if you were getting the "Extra Attacks" special rule, i'm fairly sure that you can gain it more than once for further benefit per page 2 of the Warhammer Rulebook FAQ.

sulla
16-04-2011, 00:45
Yep, the couldron is quite capable of defending itself against the common war machine hunters. Lights cav, scouting skirmishers or small flying units (example: harpies) don't really need to show up and hope to stand a great chance fighting it. You'll need something tough (still need to watch out for poison!) and/or armoured to get rid of it.
To be fair, harpies are pretty dreadful vs any fear causer in 8th because they're usually well out of the general & bsb'b bubble when it comes time for their fear test.

Even if charged by armoured stuff, the cauldron has the option to bestow itself with killing blow if it's worthwhile; although 90% of the time, a 5+ ward to one of your fragile units is the best bet.