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View Full Version : No Content in WD? What's the Deal?



Adyger
15-04-2011, 21:12
I just got my May issue of White Dwarf today, and there was nothing about Lord of the Rings in it at all! I know we haven't had any new releases since October, but I don't remember there not even being any WD coverage before. Am I wrong? Has this happened before? Has it ever happened that one of the other systems did not get a single article in the mag? I really hope this isn't a sign of things to come...

Inquisitor Kallus
15-04-2011, 21:20
They may be focussing their attentions on articles and such for the supposedly upcoming new Hobbit range and game...

Avatar of the Eldar
15-04-2011, 22:13
Patience. I wouldn't expect much LotR/WotR love for the rest of 2011. GW is probably keeping its powder dry for 2012 timed around the first half of The Hobbit movie.

Adyger
15-04-2011, 23:09
Patience. I wouldn't expect much LotR/WotR love for the rest of 2011. GW is probably keeping its powder dry for 2012 timed around the first half of The Hobbit movie.

I definitely get that, I just can't remember the last time there was an issue which didn't have a single thing from the Lord of the Rings.

lotrchampion
16-04-2011, 07:22
I just got my May issue of White Dwarf today, and there was nothing about Lord of the Rings in it at all! I know we haven't had any new releases since October, but I don't remember there not even being any WD coverage before. Am I wrong? Has this happened before? Has it ever happened that one of the other systems did not get a single article in the mag? I really hope this isn't a sign of things to come...

Sigh. As meagre as most LotR-related White Dwarf content often is for me, being more a SBG fan over WotR, I still find this a massive shame. Fortunately, May WD features plenty of Tomb Kings, which are at least of interest to me, but I'd still at least like what is meant to be the 3rd "Core" game system to get a bit of support. Ah well...

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
16-04-2011, 14:46
Oh, don't get all hysterical on us, LotR fans. As was posted, they're probably working quite hard on their new Hobbit stuff, and then WD will go back to ruining their magazine with lots of ads, pictures of boxes they're trying to sell, and LotR content that impacts literally tens of people.


...


:p

Terminatorphoenix
16-04-2011, 16:01
This is very sad for me; my first White Dward was August 2002 the one with Frodo and the fellowship on the front with about a third of it's info dedicated to the (then) brand new game :(

Avatar of the Eldar
16-04-2011, 16:45
and LotR content that impacts literally tens of people.

Oh, you wag! It's funny because it's true.

Proud to be one of the ten.

drmarco
17-04-2011, 02:28
I just got my May issue of White Dwarf today, and there was nothing about Lord of the Rings in it at all! I know we haven't had any new releases since October, but I don't remember there not even being any WD coverage before. Am I wrong? Has this happened before? ...

Once, from around June 1977 until November 2001...

drear
17-04-2011, 13:47
atleast its not just 40 pages of spacemarines in diffrent colours and price tags this issue.

slowly white dwarf is becoming a catalogue for things we already know exist and know exactly how they are priced.

Adyger
17-04-2011, 20:00
Once, from around June 1977 until November 2001...

Yes, I know! But I mean since they started saying they were a 3 core game company.

drmarco
18-04-2011, 01:28
Please...you really want to get into the LOTR as a 'core game' debate?

RobC
18-04-2011, 12:09
Once, from around June 1977 until November 2001...I think you'll find that there was plenty of content related to Middle Earth in earlier issues of White Dwarf! :p

Adyger
18-04-2011, 13:08
Please...you really want to get into the LOTR as a 'core game' debate?

What debate? It is pretty obvious even from there website that it is still a big part of their line. Unless policy has changed, I'm pretty sure it is one of their core or main systems these days...am I missing something?

Leftenant Gashrog
18-04-2011, 13:38
slowly white dwarf is becoming a catalogue for things we already know exist and know exactly how they are priced.

Its been that way for a decade.. (tho technically it always has been)

EdFireborn
18-04-2011, 13:47
WD used to have interesting tactics articles, modelling tutorials, short stories, in depth & interesting battle reports, show cases, and chapter approved/chronicals to add new units to 40k & Fantasy.

zhu bajie
18-04-2011, 15:46
The movie-tie in license was renewed in Feb, so I expect they're all beavering away on new Hobbit materials for the time being.

smaul
19-04-2011, 16:58
guess I can forget going to the local hobby shop and getting my issue if no LOTR/WOTR content.

Mr. Ultra
19-04-2011, 17:56
You hear that? It's the siren song from the Specialist Games bottomless pit... :evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

rocdocta
20-04-2011, 05:04
Oh, LotR content that impacts literally tens of people.


...


:p


LOL! i like it !

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
20-04-2011, 20:35
You hear that? It's the siren song from the Specialist Games bottomless pit... :evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

MWA HA HA HA! Once LotR starts falling, Mordheim is going to backflip off it's head and jump back into the light of day!

yabbadabba
20-04-2011, 21:10
MWA HA HA HA! Once LotR starts falling, Mordheim is going to backflip off it's head and jump back into the light of day!I think you have more chance of GW firing Kirby and dropping their prices by 75%.


WD used to have interesting tactics articles, modelling tutorials, short stories, in depth & interesting battle reports, show cases, and chapter approved/chronicals to add new units to 40k & Fantasy. And thats not what it is used for now. So whats the problem? Just don't buy it, and if you are not buying it, stop moaning about it. Chances are you are not the customer its aimed at these days anyway.

Chances are with the Hobbit coming up GW are taking the chance to push WFB and 40K a bit more to ensure they are rock solid during the Hobbit release. There was some suggestion of a problem with 40K/WFB sales during the early stages of LotR release and this won't be helped with the required over focus on the Hobbit in WD.

rodmillard
22-04-2011, 15:29
The movie-tie in license was renewed in Feb, so I expect they're all beavering away on new Hobbit materials for the time being.

Bear in mind that with a 3 month turn around from GW sending proofs to the printers, the April issue would have been finalised in January - at which point, they didn't know for sure that they would get the extended license. I would expect a big spread around June or July talking about the extended license and all the exciting things they have planned. We may even see some more of the missing models from WotR to go with it, although its more likely we'll just get the discontinued metal characters released in resin.

EDIT: I agree with Yabba that they may be pushing the other two systems to ensure there isn't a drop in sales. It also means that if they were to really go for 40K and WFB over the next 18 months before the hobbit comes out, they could have updated all the 6th ed Warhammer army books and all the 3rd ed 40K books before LotR starts taking up slots in the release schedule (which may reduce the ammount of moaning about resources being given over to LotR, but I doubt it). Recent releases (and those we know are in the works) seem to bear this out - at the very least, it looks like they will have updated all the 3rd ed codices for 40K before 6th ed comes out...

slayerofmen
03-05-2011, 10:49
lets be fair about it though, there is only so many times a new author can do a Good V evil tactica and call it fresh for either WOTR or for SBG they can't really go anywhere else with it, it's done.

HRM
03-05-2011, 22:27
There was some suggestion of a problem with 40K/WFB sales during the early stages of LotR release and this won't be helped with the required over focus on the Hobbit in WD.

I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that this was EVER the case. I wish it were, but I doubt it.

yabbadabba
03-05-2011, 22:36
I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that this was EVER the case. I wish it were, but I doubt it. Why do you doubt it, and why do you wish it was true?

HRM
03-05-2011, 22:58
Why do you doubt it, and why do you wish it was true?

Just my experiences, I guess. The LotR stuff sits on shelves, untouched, for months (years in some cases) - I just can't believe it was EVER popular enough to challenge the Big Two. And yes, it IS considered a "challenger", even by some GW staff 'round here - particularly among the older staff who dogmatically, vitriolically (are those spelled right...?) maintain that GW should "never, ever" have invested so heavily in stuff that a) isn't their IP and b) was so heavily dependant on a movie franchise tie-in to maintain a steady upward sales climb.

I wish it was true because I prefer it to the Big Two - and I haven't even PLAYED the SBG, only WotR.

Starchild
04-05-2011, 03:55
Finally! I always resented the WD space taken from 40k and Fantasy by LOTR. The models are (overall) rather bad, too small, and overpriced-- and while the game might be worth a try, I simply have no incentive when nobody plays it at any of the games stores I've visited... including GW mall stores and a battle bunker. :(

Raellos
04-05-2011, 06:09
:wtf: LoTR is one of the best value for money games, with models that are actually in proportion :shock: .

Nor is the game responsible for there being no content in WD, the magazine did fine with LoTR providing some decent article variety until the WD policy shift in about... 2007?

I don't play the game, I just don't understand the very real partisan resentment some people have with it.

yabbadabba
04-05-2011, 07:15
I just can't believe it was EVER popular enough to challenge the Big Two.
Ah, I can see the confusion. While initially LotR SBG did beat WFB sales, its now more of a par with LotR slightly below and WFB on the increase. However the problem wasn't loss of sales to `LotR but loss of sales of the two systems full stop. This was inevitable and some of it would have been transfer shopping but some of it GW would have attributed to the lack of real promotional focus, of staff taking the easy route and just going for the money (same with LGSs) etc.

GW are already well aware that 40K and WFB gamers are, on the whole, unlikely to buy into LotR now after all this time so they will want to keep them buying while they have to over focus on LotR - throw in a lack new releases and you have a heavy presence of 40K and WFB in WD on the build up to the Hobbit.

rodmillard
04-05-2011, 10:04
Ah, I can see the confusion. While initially LotR SBG did beat WFB sales, its now more of a par with LotR slightly below and WFB on the increase. However the problem wasn't loss of sales to `LotR but loss of sales of the two systems full stop. This was inevitable and some of it would have been transfer shopping but some of it GW would have attributed to the lack of real promotional focus, of staff taking the easy route and just going for the money (same with LGSs) etc.


This is the point - LotR sales did not lure players away from 40K/WFB - sales of those games were already dropping (largely due to increased costs combined with a particularly low point for rules quality and game balance about 10 years ago).

What LotR does for GW is tap into another strand of the market, who normally wouldn't be seen dead in a GW store (and many LOTR players still wouldn't, preferring to buy stuff online rather than set foot in gamer kindergarten). It appeals to older gamers who like their models to be in proportion, well written (and balanced) rules, and a focus on narrative, scenario based play rather than the "I go, you go, Dreadknight SMASH" sequence of most WFB/40K games.

I think GW wanted the SBG to serve as a gateway drug for the other systems(with its skirmish scenarios and cheaper models combining for a much lower buy in cost, and the fact that as a movie/book franchise it is somewhat more socially acceptable to parents). But what has happened is that they created a new line (no pun intended) which was so different that people do not cross over between games - LotR players prefer the look of true 28mm and therefore dislike "heroic" scale, and vice versa, and the game (along with its historical spin offs) tends to be played in clubs with an older demographic, while WFB and 40K are very much the focus for younger gamers in stores. So when they realised people weren't graduating from LotR skirmish to their existing mass battle systems, they brought out a new mass battle system for the LotR market which uses true 28mm models with a well written, well balanced ruleset (which is what that market actually wants).

Given the different markets, it therefore follows that many of the dedicated LotR gamers do not buy white dwarf, since they have no interest in owning a 40K catalogue - maybe the odd issue that has rules for new models in it, but most of us wait for the rules to be put on the website anyway. IMO we shouldn't be bemoaning the lack of LotR content in WD, we should be campaigning for the return of BGIME: give us two seperate magazines for two seperate markets, because that is what GW inadvertantly created...

yabbadabba
04-05-2011, 10:42
This is the point - LotR sales did not lure players away from 40K/WFB - sales of those games were already dropping (largely due to increased costs combined with a particularly low point for rules quality and game balance about 10 years ago). Sales had been turning around - slowly admittedly, before LotR was launched in 2001. GW went through a sales dip in mid 1999 and had begun to show growth around 12 months later through its retail business. Can't remember about the other channels. There was some crossover sales however the majority of LotR sales probably went to kids and collectors. The first were GWs prime market anyway, and the majority of them would have fallen out of the market, GW just got hold of more of them than usual and quicker than usual.


Given the different markets, it therefore follows that many of the dedicated LotR gamers do not buy white dwarf, since they have no interest in owning a 40K catalogue - maybe the odd issue that has rules for new models in it, but most of us wait for the rules to be put on the website anyway. IMO we shouldn't be bemoaning the lack of LotR content in WD, we should be campaigning for the return of BGIME: give us two seperate magazines for two seperate markets, because that is what GW inadvertantly created... We have to forget about WD (and BGiME to be honest) and our rose tinted memories - in its current state it is not for anyone who is beyond their first year of the hobby and I think GW are deliberately targetting that. Therefore WD's content is irrelevant.

GW need to step up its online content better, switch its advertising to facebook updates and other types of direct contact eg. sms services. When you register on their website you should be able to custom build an e-newsletter to contain information on only what you are interested in. More importantly, as hobbyists, we need to move away from expecting anything other than product promotion from GW.

smaul
04-05-2011, 20:18
GW need to step up its online content better, \.

Amen to that!

HRM
04-05-2011, 20:53
More importantly, as hobbyists, we need to move away from expecting anything other than product promotion from GW.

See... I don't necessarily agree with this. I agree that, yes, REALISTICALLY, this is the extent of what we'll get. What I don't agree with, though, is that this is all we're WORTH. I don't think it's asking too much to get a lil' hobby love - the company MUST employ people SOMEWHERE that care about more than dollars and cents.

yabbadabba
04-05-2011, 21:10
See... I don't necessarily agree with this. I agree that, yes, REALISTICALLY, this is the extent of what we'll get. What I don't agree with, though, is that this is all we're WORTH. I don't think it's asking too much to get a lil' hobby love - the company MUST employ people SOMEWHERE that care about more than dollars and cents. And thats exactly why that approach cannot wortk without a serious investment risk - your hobby love is different to someone elses ad nauseum. In the context of what we are talking about, I haven't collected WD for years after realising that while GW were not telling me where to go, they needed their magazine for something else. So I get my hooby love from my mates, online etc with the occasional injection of inspiration from GW.

Now we could get more from GW via e-media but what we have to accept is that we will not get what WD used to be - Chapter Approved etc. What they will promote is directly what they can sell and what promotes the whole of their product. Anything else and they will think it will burn their fingers - as it has happened so many times before so they have precedent. And we come back to my first line. I can look at an unofficial army list, see its unbalanced, make an adult reasoned decision and act on it. Others can't and unfortunately GW have to worry about those guys now and hope I can manage along without them.

FarseerBeilTan
15-05-2011, 19:28
Sadly i think the LOTR range is dying.... Hopefully the Hobbit will boost the range

lorelorn
16-05-2011, 05:46
Chances are with the Hobbit coming up GW are taking the chance to push WFB and 40K a bit more to ensure they are rock solid during the Hobbit release.

This. Get two solid core games sorted before re-working your third seems liked a perfectly sensible move on GWs part. So if you are also into whfb or 40k it should be good times for the next year and a half.

Don't worry though, come 2013 you still get to complain about how The Hobbit is crowding 'your game' out of White Dwarf. ;)

smaul
17-05-2011, 15:08
Sadly i think the LOTR range is dying.... Hopefully the Hobbit will boost the range

what are you hoping they will boost? Not really arguing with you, just curious?

With all the stuff that is already out and the army lists pretty much complete, other than the Hobbit coming out, not sure what else they should release.

I guess they could do a siege supplement or some campaigns but to me it seems pretty complete to me

and our local group is growing each year.

Lord Malorne
17-05-2011, 15:09
I just got my May issue of White Dwarf today, and there was nothing about Lord of the Rings in it at all! I know we haven't had any new releases since October, but I don't remember there not even being any WD coverage before. Am I wrong? Has this happened before? Has it ever happened that one of the other systems did not get a single article in the mag? I really hope this isn't a sign of things to come...

There was an issue with no Fantasy in once.