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nick
29-03-2006, 22:33
Hi everyone,

I don't know if anyone can help me with this but lets try anyway. I'm considering getting back into the hobby in some way and as I don't have the space to keep a fully 40k or fantasy army I was considering warmaster. The problem is that I'm torn about which army to go with. I like the creatures in the high elf army but there are other reasons I'm tempted by the other armies. Does anyone have any suggestions on the styles of play for each army as I cannot tell that from the basic rules.

A final question is this... does anyone around here play warmaster?

Nick

fracas
30-03-2006, 03:49
i have 3k of Khemri and 3k of Kislev. Almost done painting 3k of Dwarves.

Game play wise cavalry are the key offensive units, and almost all armies (xcept for dwarves) have them. of the armies i have i'll list reasons why i have them and how they play.

Khemri: instead of cavalry they rely on chariots. their infantry are poor fighters, but being undead makes up the difference. one of the stronger armies because of reliable infantry and plenty of chariots. they also have a dragon.

Kislev: kinda finicky. have light cavalry which i am still trying to figure out how to play. average everything else. have bears, which are cool.

Dwarves; solid and tough infantry. unlike warhammer they don't seem as slow, probably due to the fact that all infantry moves the same rate, and with higher leadership, they are more responsive to commands.

other armies of note:
high elves: often mentioned as the strongest army. good cavalry, good shooting, good leadership and they have dragons.



i think it is a great game and i absolutely love how an army looks on the table top. easier to paint than you think.

StugMeister
30-03-2006, 07:16
I've always been tempted to get into Wamster. Tis very much like Epic but for Warhammer Fantasy.

mechwarrior123
30-03-2006, 09:24
Orcs & Goblins can be fun, very weak on missile troops, you just have to go on the offensive straight away, but sometimes suffer from poor leadership. Definately my favourite GW game at the moment.

Hercco
30-03-2006, 15:06
Warmaster is probably my favourite GW game.

I have a 1500 points of High Elves painted, another 1500 to be painted. In our gaming group there are three other WM player, one Undead, one Empire and one Dwarfs player.

I really like my High Elves. I think it's mainly because of their variety. Armies like Dwarfs and Undead have their specific strengths and usually they are used with little variance in the strategy. Dwarfs for example have very strong infantry and that's where you need to build your strategy on. With High Elves can concentrate on hard hitting heavy cavalry, go for large infantry brigades, massed shooting or a combination of some of these. I guess what I'm trying to say is you can win with very different strategies and I like than in army.

My second choice would be Empire which is even more diverse. And like in any game Orcs and Goblins are always fun to play.

dax
30-03-2006, 15:59
Just a note Kislev miniatures have been discontinued so you'll have to find them elsewhere.

The new armylists are due in the next few weeks so you might want to wait and look at those. There was a lot of complaints that the High Elves and Lizardmen where just to good so some changes have been made to balance the armies out again.

I play Chaos and Daemons mainly though I do have an Empire army which rarely gets used and I had Lizardmen but sold them to finance the Daemons.

Chaos are great if you want a small cheap army to build quickly most of the units are expensive and they'll defintely have the lowest break point plus they have loads of monsters. Their infantry and cavalry are the best in the game however you dont get much for the points and if it goes wrong you'll hit your breakpoint very quickly. Basically with chaos you have to hit em hard and fast and hope they dont get to attack back you may have a better armour save and attacks but sheer weight of numbers will eventually beat you.

I love my Daemon army for one reason the sheer variety of miniatures to paint every god is covered and nearly all their unit types are there. I've never managed to really master them though the instability rule can make them quite fragile basically when you lose your second stand the third vanishes automatically (though this might change with the new list) so you have to be sure you can win a combat with minimum loses.You can add a stand back in the magic phase. The unit points aren't as high as Chaos but are still high by comparison to other armies.

My avatar is my Overlord of Tzeentch

I suggest you look at some of the articles on this page:
http://www.specialist-games.com/warmaster/articles.asp

Advice for Green Bosses
The Evolution of a Dwarf Commandos
Alandir the Great (HE)
Return of the Beards
Grunt Tzu (Orcs)
High Elf Shootists
Micro Tactics (General tactics)
Reikmarshall Rothmeyer's Imperial Army
Using Alternative Armies
Themed Armies
Lords of Chaos
Winning with the Undead
Elven Stratagems
My Kind of Game (General)
My Kind of Game Pt2 (General)
My Take on the Vampire Counts
My Take On Bretonnians

A little light reading for you!

rkunisch
30-03-2006, 19:24
You should keep in mind, that painting Warmaster armies is different. Although you may not need as much highlighting/detail picking, the small size has difficulties of its own - always have your 000 paint brush handy. :rolleyes:

I started to paint some High Elves and have a couple of Empire minis stuffed away. The first thing that happend was a snaped staff of a High Elf spear. :mad:

Have fun,

Rolf.

DaR
30-03-2006, 22:56
I actually found it was easier to paint with a larger brush than a smaller one.
I did my Empire up in Averland's Yellow and Black, and even went to the effort of quartering the design (left leg and right chest/arm in yellow, right leg and left chest/arm in black). The trick is to realize they're 10mm scale, and that you cannot possibly paint the sort of details you'd have to paint on a 28mm model. Anything you can't easily paint with a single swipe of a #0 brush is not going to be visible on the table, and probably not even all that visible close up. A single infantry stand has 8 to 12 figures on it, so individual details on each model are much less important, and instead you need to worry about how the models look as a group.

The best way I've found to paint an army works like this:

0) This isn't painting, but I recommend doing all your painting by fixing the models to popsicle sticks/tongue depressors/craft sticks in a single file line. Painting once you've put them on the final stands makes it hard to get at certain parts of the model. It also encourages you to work on more than one stand of models at a time. It's a lot more efficient to do a whole unit at once at this scale, even more than it is at 28mm.

1) Prime black. ALWAYS PRIME BLACK. At this scale, you cannot possibly avoid the sort of mistakes that priming black covers up, like not getting all the way up under an arm or down into a crevase. If you prime white all the little spots you cannot reach a brush easily are going to jump out to the eye and appear very very noticable, even if your overall color scheme is mostly white. I prefer to use a spray to brush on primers for this, to get smooth, even coverage even in places that are hard to reach with a brush. I'm a big fan of Duplicolor Sandable Auto Body Primer.

2) Drybrush white heavily over everything. The corallary to #1 is that at smaller scales, colors need to be lighter to seem 'right' and everyone knows black primer tends to dull down colors. The same color that's vibrant on a 28mm model can look dull and muddy on a 10mm one to begin with. So you want the areas that are closest to the viewer, the ones that would naturally be the most visible, to be brightest. Going over the black primer with a white drybrush will make the raised areas brightest when you apply color. When you're done, you should have something that looks like a black and white photo of your mini, with all the recesses dark, and all the raised surfaces white. You can alter how much white depending on the overall color scheme of your army, but I generally aim to make it so that the highest points are nearly pure white, with a fairly even gradient down to the recesses, which remain pure black.

3) Block paint your colors with thinned down paints. Because of steps 1 and 2, you don't need to worry overly much about shading here, so a single color is fine, don't worry about having to do 3 layer highlighting or anything like that. Pick a color about 1 or 2 shades brighter than what you'd put on a 28mm model. If you're using GW paints, and don't have quite the range of Vallejo model colors or craft paints, add a drop or two of white to 10 or so drops of your base color, to lighten it just a touch. The paints should be thinner than you'd use on most 28mm models. The idea is to take advantage of steps 1 and 2 to give you some 'free' shading by letting the black and white show through slightly from under the actual colors. Take your time, but don't obssess over getting it just right; the combination of your first two steps and the next step, plus your thinned paints, are going to hide less than perfect results.

4) Wash with highly thinned brown inks to shade your colors. Don't use black to shade unless you're painting something primarily metallic like fully armored knights, brown gives much more realistic shadows for most colors at this scale. Thinning is important here, again. Using brown inks straight from the pots will hopelessly muddy your colors. You want just enough ink to tint the low areas again, tying together your block colors and the colors underneath into a nice smooth effect.

5) Detailing. Put the model on the table at least arm's length away. Notice which parts of the model seem to catch your eyes as you look over them. Chances are it's going to be any raised weapons, faces and hands, and maybe shields if the models have them. These are the only places that are worth spending any sort of time detailing. One quick highlight is usually enough to make these look very good. If you didn't seperately paint things like tassels on spears or belts and sashes when you block painted in step 3, this is a good time to do them. As I said before, I use larger brushes here than you'd expect. I actually do most of this step with a good #2 brush, but I try to not make more than a single stroke to do the highlight. For really fiddly details, I may go back and use a #0 brush, but only rarely (the tips of crossbow bolts is where I do this most often, as that's a highly visible point on the Empire crossbowmen models).

6) Clean up. Put the figures aside, and then come back to them in a day or two. It's hard to notice flaws when you've been staring at 40 identical tiny copies of a model for 6 hours straight. When you pick them up again, you'll notice places where you might have slopped paint from one color onto another or missed a detail that's obvious. This is the place I use #0 brushes and below, to clean up those sorts of spots. Another trick here is to go a touch darker than your base colors for clean ups, but not thin quite as much. The darkness compared to the surroundings will tend to draw the eye away from them, and thicker paints mean you can simply touch the brush tip to the point and leave enough pigment to cover the spot, eliminating brush strokes and leaving the rest of your shading intact.

7) Base 'em. Glue 'em down and put something around them. I started out just using ground flock from Woodland Scenics, but I didn't like the raised platform effect that the cast bases had against the very thin warmaster bases. So now I use 'acrylic gel medium' (available from most art and craft stores that sell acrylic paints) to smooth the cast bases into the plastic ones, before I put the ground flock on. The stuff I buy comes white, but a few drops of brown ink makes it into a nice earthy color that looks good underneath my flock and static grass.

-DaR

fracas
31-03-2006, 12:51
alternatively prime in black then dry brush in the flesh tone of your choice, then paint up the clothes, armor, and weapon, etc

Crube
31-03-2006, 12:54
Nice guide there DaR - thanks.

Must cinfess, I'm considering a Warmaster project for something different...you've certainly helped that decision...

Griefbringer
31-03-2006, 13:09
Remember that there are also some Warmaster variants that got released last year, namely Battle of the Five Armies and Warmaster Ancients.

nick
31-03-2006, 15:58
Remember that there are also some Warmaster variants that got released last year, namely Battle of the Five Armies and Warmaster Ancients.
I've actually got a copy of Battle of the Five Armies sitting on my wardrobe, but I'm actually planning to take it back as I'm currently more interested in the variety of warmaster minis. The sheer number of bits included actually convinced me to buy it but I didn't see any decent support from GW on anything but the base set. Anyone got any further thoughts on it?

edit: oh and i forgot to mention, that painting guide is ideal, thanks :)
(Now I just need to find someway to tag this thread as one to come back too)

Nick

Rotten
07-05-2006, 13:47
Hi

In the hope of bringing new life to this thread I have a little problem that I would like some input on.

I've been playing WHFB for six years, now commanding an Empire army and a Chaos (Beasts) force along with some units and plans for Skaven, Dark Elves and Tomb Kings armies. A few months ago however, I flipped through some of my older WDs, discovering a series of articles on Warmaster. Needless to say, I was done for. I just knew Warmaster was the next step for me to take. Now here's my problem:

After looking at the various armies' models and taking the armies' looks into account, I have decided it's going to be a pick between Orcs & Goblins and Empire. That's because I want to have this real army feeling when I'm fielding my force, and I'm under the impression that both these armies have the potential to field quite a lot of units/brigades (they're not the only ones, but they are the two I liked best). Other armies I've been considering are Dwarfs and Vampire Counts.

I was about to go for O&G when I read a tactica article on the Specialist web site about the greenies. What I read there did not correspond very well with my own thoughts about how my army was going to perform. I wanted to field big blocks of infantry, huge brigades of yelling greenskins who would rumble forward like an avalanche, not small bands of orcs shambling about. To me, an O&G army is a massive green horde advancing as one, crushing all before them (I'm actually quite fond of the many clichés (spelling?) of Warhammer).

Are there any ways to play O&G like I want without being squashed? Although I'm a player who mainly choose my armies based on their background and not on their performance, I suspect I wont be playing Warmaster for long if I just loose over and over because I play the way I want.

Alternatively, is Empire more fitting for my style of play? Or do I simply have the wrong approach altogether? Could someone more experienced help me on this matter, as I'm dying to get my hands on a few Warmaster blisters to get started.

Thanks in advance.

dax
07-05-2006, 15:59
If you like the look of the Orcs and goblins miniatures but are unsure about the army list try using one of the other armylists with orc and goblin miniatures. The "Green" Kislev army is a classic example of this you use the Kislev armylist to pick your army but use Orc and Goblins miniatures instead. This is perfectly acceptable in warmaster there was even an article in Fanatic magazine about it. You just need to explain to your opponent what represents what and keep an armulist handy for them to reference.

The biggest Horde army in warmaster has to be skaven. Orcs and Goblins can field quite a large army to they are just very difficult to command effectively due to their poor leadership. If you play OnG you just have to live with the fact they wont always do what you want them to.

Most armies will run between 6 - 12 units of Infantry, cavalry is king in warmaster especially in the open so people tend to load up on cavalry. I know you have visions of masses of Infantry but you need to play quite large games to get this effect 3000pts+ warmaster isn't quite as epic in scale as you'd think.

Remember Gobbos are cheap at 30pts you can get lots of em but they're not great fighters and they count towards your break point so a clever opponent could just pick on the goblins and break you without ever going near the tougher stuff!

Rotten
07-05-2006, 16:35
Orcs and Goblins can field quite a large army to they are just very difficult to command effectively due to their poor leadership. If you play OnG you just have to live with the fact they wont always do what you want them to.

I can live with that. Greenies are supposed to mess up every once in a while. What the tactica article gave me the impression of thought, was that you had to break up your army into small chunks to make it work at all.

It seems then that my romanticising (spelling?) have made me blind to how the game actually works. My cunnin' plan about an infantry horde (well, I wasn't thinking of fielding only infantry) doesn't work. How sad. :cries:

How about the Empire? How does they fit into my visions? Is it possible to get a reasonable effective fighting force with lots of infantry? Or is it the same issue all the way, that large infantry armies are either not the slightest effective or not possible at all


If you like the look of the Orcs and goblins miniatures but are unsure about the army list try using one of the other armylists with orc and goblin miniatures. The "Green" Kislev army is a classic example of this you use the Kislev armylist to pick your army but use Orc and Goblins miniatures instead. This is perfectly acceptable in warmaster there was even an article in Fanatic magazine about it. You just need to explain to your opponent what represents what and keep an armulist handy for them to reference.

I love that idea. I might try it out if my problem doesn't seem to be solved in this thread. Thanks for the tip. ;)

(At the moment, Skaven is not an option because I'm not particularly fond of the models.)

Chuffy
07-05-2006, 16:43
I can live with that. Greenies are supposed to mess up every once in a while. What the tactica article gave me the impression of thought, was that you had to break up your army into small chunks to make it work at all.

It seems then that my romanticising (spelling?) have made me blind to how the game actually works. My cunnin' plan about an infantry horde (well, I wasn't thinking of fielding only infantry) doesn't work. How sad.

Well firstly, it's never a good idea to break up any army into small chunks in WM. It just means more command rolls. More command roles that can fail.

Also, O&G infantry is very good. A good brigade is to have an orc unit, a unit of either ogres/Blorcs and have two goblin units to support them from behind. However cavalry is EXTREMELY good in WM. You will be shooting yourself in the foot by not taking any Boar Boyz or Chariots.

Rotten
07-05-2006, 17:02
The tactica advised O&G generals to break up large brigades into smaller units because...well, long story. The link to the article (a whole lot of articles in fact) is somewhere earlier in this thread. Read it, and you'll see what it's all about and why I'm concerned.

And no, if people think my plan was to field only infantry, I have expressed myself badly. I have of course understood the importance of cavalry, and I was thinking of including both Boar Boyz and chariots, but my vision was to base the army on large infantry blocks.

Thanks for a bit more optimistic view on the matter, Chuffy. (No hard feelings, dax. ;)) I take it that in your opinion, my plan is viable? Great!

But still no thoughts on the Empire? Does anyone here play WM Empire?

Cpt. Drill
07-05-2006, 19:19
To be honest.. over long distances your army will be a big horde that advances slowely... and when things hit your lines they tend to get engulfed pretty quickly!


And I find that the O&G army plays very muhc like fantasy background.. as there are so many occasions where the boys will sit around flinging **** at each other.. but then a unit of cav will pass a few rolls and you suddently have a unit of boar boys in your flank! (grrr chuffy)

Or rouh giants running all over the place...

the score still stands at

Giant - 0
Flame cannon - 3


Just make sure you have alot of heros and your army should be fine.. just put a hero incharge of a brigade.. and have one for every brigade.. then you should be fine!

Rotten
07-05-2006, 19:33
Unless someone has a serious argument against O&G, my first WM army will be green!

Fer Gork an' Mork! Waaaagh! :D






Of course, feel free to continue the discussion.

Cpt. Drill
07-05-2006, 19:35
You might want to play with a empire army to start off with... then move onto one of the more... specialised armys......


But then again.... O&G arnt bad.. as ifyou do another amy... you will be like.. WOW LD MORE THAN 8!!!!

Rotten
07-05-2006, 20:00
But then again.... O&G arnt bad.. as ifyou do another amy... you will be like.. WOW LD MORE THAN 8!!!!

Haha, cool! :D

Perhaps I will do both O&G and Empire. They were competing to become my first WM army after all, so it might just be fair that I do both. We'll see what I can afford in money and time.



Oh, one thing. Were are the official army lists? I have downloaded a few army lists from the internet (can't remember exactly where), and I know there are at least some lists in the rule book. But are these official and updated?

Cpt. Drill
07-05-2006, 20:05
there is a site.....

http://www.brumbaer.de/Wm/index.html

you can download an army builder program from here.... its good!

orangesm
07-05-2006, 20:10
I would think having two armies is not a bad idea as you can then give your friend one to learn the game and get into it.

dax
07-05-2006, 20:19
Join the Yahoo Warmaster group. You need to be a member to access the group.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/gw-warmaster/

You will find the current official army lists in the files section (WM-ArmyLists.pdf) these are the official lists. The updated armylists are due in the next week or two form the specialist games website. The Orcs and Goblins aren't expected to change much if at all.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/gw-warmaster/files/Army%20Lists%20and%20Trial%20Rules/

Also in the files section are counters which represent each unit for each army print them out, cut them out and play a few games you won't have to pay anythiing to see if you like a certain army or not.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/gw-warmaster/files/Markers-Counters/Counters/

As for the Empire army its a very solid army with a bit of everything its well balanced. I started with an empire army I just found it a bit boring after a while and I swapped to chaos.

When it comes to brigades bigger is better try to always get 4 infantry units in a brigade less orders to give. Cavalry you can get away with 2 or 3 units.

Sorry if I sound pesimistic I just come across that way in writing i'm used to writing very precise legal letters it tends to carry over into everything else I write unfortunately

Rotten
07-05-2006, 20:20
That's what I thought. The trick of having two armies and let one friend use one of them to get him/her hooked have always been succesful... :p


Are the lists on that brumbaer-page official? Great.

fracas
07-05-2006, 20:45
most armies will be infantry based as there are limits to how many cavalry you can take.


i think O&G is a great army and yes, you should consider building Empire as well.

I built Khemri and Kislev and have started on Dwarves

Chuffy
07-05-2006, 21:08
But then again.... O&G arnt bad.. as ifyou do another amy... you will be like.. WOW LD MORE THAN 8!!!!

...there are armies with more than LD8?

WHAT.

THE.

HELL.

D: I was not informed.

Cpt. Drill
07-05-2006, 22:08
The Brambear lists are all official.... but there might be a few rules updates..!?


And yes chuffy.... some armys get to command on a LD10... thats why my dwarves are sometimes fast!

Chuffy
08-05-2006, 16:00
And yes chuffy.... some armys get to command on a LD10... thats why my dwarves are sometimes fast!

Fastest army in the game aside from HE.

:rolleyes:

Dwarfs? Fast? Welcome to War Maestro.

Rotten
12-05-2006, 08:00
I think I'm going to keep asking stupid questions for a little while but I use the I'm-a-total-newbie-excuse. Hope that's fine.

So my question this time is: what is a properly sized army? I guess this is discussed in the rulebook but I don't have it yet, and besides I think players' first hand experience is better advice than something a book says.

I have thought of 2000 pts being the standard size like in Warhammer, but just how big is 2000 pts? And in comparison, how big are 1000 and 3000 ( or larger) games?

Once again, thanks for all the help folks. I appreciate it. ;)

dax
12-05-2006, 18:06
2000 pts is standard

A 2000 pt Orc and Goblin (based on your previous choice) would look something like this:

1 Orc General
3 Orc Heroes
1 Orc Shaman
1 Goblin Shaman
9 Goblins
4 Orcs
1 Black Orcs
1 Ogres
3 Wolf riders
2 Boar Boyz
2 Chariots
1 Giant
2 Rock lobbers
Total 1995 pts. picked purely to get a little of everything in. I haven't picked Goblin heroes as at leadership 7 they're a bit limited but 2 of them cost 90 pts where as an Orc hero costs 80pts. its personal choice really.
There are certain minimums you must take. You must take 1 General no more or less. You must take 2 units of goblins and 2 units of Orc warriors per 1000 pts. Certain units have a maximum per 1000 pts to stop you over loading on them other than that you are free to pick what you like.

1000 pts gets you:
1 Orc General
1 Goblin Hero
1 Orc Hero
1 Goblin Shaman
6 Goblins
3 Orcs
1 Boar boyz
1 Chariots
2 Wolf Riders
1 Rock lobber

Total 995pts. Big difference in what you can pick. The main problem with 1000 pts. is one good cavalry charge will end the game.

2000 pts takes an evening to play.

3000 pts bigger game more fun more miniatures can take the best part of a day to play. The wyvern charcter mount is best left out till you get to 3000 point armies.

Magic items are a waste of points really as magic isn't very dominant in warmaster if you have left over points you cant fill with another unit use it on magic items.

Rotten
13-05-2006, 19:38
Those lists look good to me. I might use those as a starting point.

I have but one objection. Is it neccessary to have so many goblins? Initially I hadn't thought of fielding nine units in a 2000 pts army because of two things:
1. I wanted primarily an Orc horde, with goblins just filling out the ranks here and there.
2. I will only be able to buy miniatures from the UK store, and the UK store has only Night Goblin models avaliable, which I am not particularly fond of.

I have heard from various sources that a magic item named the Orb of Command or Orb of Majesty or something is a must-have for any army. Is that not so? (I am not sure what it does.)

And where are the magic items listed after all? In the rulebook?

orangesm
13-05-2006, 20:02
They are located on page 77 of the rulebook (first print).

dax
13-05-2006, 20:20
Officially you must take 2 units of goblins per 1000 pts so you have to take 4 units in a 2000 pt. army. If your just playing friendly games you can agree with your opponent before hand that you wont field any goblins at all.

The original Orb was great it allowed the general to disregard one single failed command in a game and instead the order was automatically issued very handy knowing you where gauranteed to get an order to work especially with orcs and goblins but it proved to be to good and was abused so it was changed in the 2002 annual to the following:

Orb of Majesty - 30 pts.
If you fail a command you can attempt to issue the command again but you must use a command value of 8 to reissue the order all usual command modifiers apply. One use only.

Alot less useful now but much fairer.

Heres a sample 2000 pt army orc heavy including the Orb (you could by another unit of goblins for this cost)

1 Orc General with Orb of Majesty
3 Orc Heroes (1 with boar chariot - +1 attack)
1 Orc Shaman with wand of power - +1 to cast a spell one use only
4 Goblins
8 Orc warriors
2 Black Orcs
3 Boar Boys
2 Wolf Riders
1 Giant
2 Rock Lobbers

2000 pts exactly, Break point 11, the wand of power was really just to use up the last 10 points. I left wolf riders in as they're good light cavalry worth inclusion. You'll notice how I tend to pick infantry in blocks of 4 makes up handy brigades.

fracas
13-05-2006, 20:29
i take goblins to screen my orcs

Rotten
13-05-2006, 22:09
Wow, that's more like an optimal list to me. Thanks dax.

Break point 11 means I can loose 11 units or I break when there's 11 units left (haven't come this far in the online rulebook yet)?

I thought you were only allowed to have one unit of Black Orcs, is that not so?

How do trolls and ogres perform? I was thinking of maybe including one unit of one or both, but am a little uncertain of their potential.



I know I've sorta hijacked this thread but I hope you can live with that... :p

dax
13-05-2006, 22:23
Once you lose 11 units your army breaks and flees (game over) you can still get a draw at this stage if you've destroyed more points of your opponents army than he has of yours but you can't win

Trolls suffer from stupidity -1 to command and if they're part of a brigade the whole brigade suffers the -1 penalty its hard enough to command orcs and goblins without handicaping yourself further but they get 5 attacks per stand - 18 attacks on the charge - thats the up side.

I think Ogres are better for the points 4 attacks and 4 hits heavy hitting infantry unit the only downside is they must charge human units (Empire, Kislev, Brettonians, Chaos mortals, Araby) within 20cm of them you have no choice so a clever opponent can send a cheap unit of humans up and lure your ogres away from where you want them. Brettonian peasants are particularly good for this 30pts lures off 105 pts

its one unit of black orcs per 1000 pts therefore 2000 pts 2 units

new 2000 pt list

1 Orc General (NO Orb)
3 Orc Heroes (1 with sword of Fate))
1 Orc Shaman (no magic items)
4 Goblins
8 Orc warriors
1 Ogres
2 Black Orcs
3 Boar Boys
1 Wolf Riders
1 Giant
2 Rock Lobbers
Break point 11

If you want trolls swap them for the Ogres and drop the sword of fate still 2000 pts.

Dropped the Orb it relly isn't worth it. organise the brigades as follows
Brigade 1 - 4 Goblins
Brigade 2 - 4 orcs
Brigade 3 - 4 Orcs
Brigade 4 - 2 Black orcs 1 Ogres (the heavy Infantry)
Brigade 5 - 3 Boar Boys 1 Wolf Riders
The giant must go on its own it cannot be brigaded
The Rock lobbers can be brigaded together or placed separately

Ask any thing you like Warmaster is the one GW game I know well and the only one I have any interest in anymore.

orangesm
13-05-2006, 23:03
So dax, say I want to get two armies 1000 pts each to play friendly games with my roommate or another friend and probably build on one of them, what two armies do you think are best for such a thing?

dax
13-05-2006, 23:10
Thats a hard one really but if you want 2 good 1000 pt armies you can build on I'd personally go with Empire and High Elves but I'm sure others would recommend other armies.

orangesm
13-05-2006, 23:20
Would you say that the box sets - if you can get a hold of them are a good starting point for any army?

I was thinking of getting Empire and Orcs & Goblins as two starting armies - 1000 pts each to introduce people. I personally am going to start on a Dwarf Army once I have those two good for intro games.

dax
13-05-2006, 23:30
Yeah the boxsets are a good starting point they give you a little of everything to start with theres typically 500 pts. in the boxes. Hard to get mind they come up on ebay the odd time make sure you don't play to much for them.

Empire is a good balanced army the troop types aren't to expensive so you'll get a decent amount for 1000 pts.
Orcs and Goblins as already mentioned are good fun if somewhat erratic!

orangesm
14-05-2006, 00:45
Since Orcs & Goblins I would guess are a little harder to play, what is another 'evil' army that is similiar to Empire in balance and variety of units, a good way to learn the rules?

dax
14-05-2006, 01:04
The "evil" army closest to The Empire would be Dark Elves.

Halberdiers = Spearmen (spearmen have +1 better armour)
Crossbowmen = Crossbowmen (DE crossbowmen have +1 better armour)
Knights = Cold One Knights (Exactly the same)
Pistoliers = Dark Riders (Pistoliers have +1 better armour)
Flagellants = Witch Elves (Exactly the same)
Cannons not the same as Bolt throwers but they're both artillery!

All the other "evil" armies have specific army rules. Chaos is also a very straight forward army however its very hard to build a balanced 1000 pt chaos army as the units are all so expensive.

orangesm
14-05-2006, 01:26
So Dark Elves and High Elves would be a good combo of armies to get since they are both rather flexible in their selections and create the classic image of good vs evil.

fracas
14-05-2006, 16:48
DE-HE is a great combo as both are reasonably flexible. the consensus though is that HE is a better list

Dwarves-Skaven is another one but emphasizing elite vs horde infantry