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PolishSausage
16-04-2011, 04:02
I hear from local meta players that if you have an option to upgrade a unit with spear to avert from such temptation as it will result in the unit costing more and loosing parry, is this true?

Has everybody stopped running spear @!head's!@ now?:confused:

Citadel97501
16-04-2011, 07:44
Yes, unless the unit has ASF like high elves, or certain dark elves don't do it. Hell a good portion of the time, its a hard choice for high elves since they cost so much per guy, and have really bad armor/toughness.

Methios
16-04-2011, 08:30
I run my saurus with spear.
With a slann with lore of life ressilence of my troops usualy is not an issue.
But it might be sub-optimal im not a die hard player.
Just my prefference.

Gotrek
16-04-2011, 12:02
certain races/builds are better with spear others are with hw/shield. it's more a matter of what exactly are you asking for

Keith_Lupton
16-04-2011, 13:25
certain races/builds are better with spear others are with hw/shield. it's more a matter of what exactly are you asking for

Goblins are a prime example of this.
I always field my Goblins in a horde formation of about 50 strong, and because of this i find a spear is a far better option as i would rather have a extra rank of attacks over a 6+ Ward Save anyday of the week. Especially when my Goblins are under the spotlight lol.

papabearshane
16-04-2011, 13:30
My 100 Gobbos always have spears and I run a unit of Dark Elf Warriors with spears only/no shields 60 strong. Love mind Razer

PolishSausage
16-04-2011, 15:21
I am a returning tomb king player, looking at the new book skelies are 4 points per and 1 point extra shield, from a 40 block I can get out a 50 block that is more survivable.

unless I put in a tomb king prince that increases the ws of skellies or give them a necrotech that will grant hatred making an expandable unit more expensive is ploop.

if I do use the sc necrotech that grants frenzy then , yes, as u cant benefit from parry while under the effect.

Dante blackfur
04-05-2011, 00:05
What about Skaven Clan Rats? ascetically spears look better but I'm going to going to tourneys. should I use Spears and get an extra attack? or should I use HW and get a 6+ parry? its 1/2 pt difference between the two.

Tarian
04-05-2011, 00:19
I prefer the shield on my rats, as they're made to not die as long as possible, and Parry does help a bit... sometimes.

Razuli
04-05-2011, 01:06
I usually field a CR unit of 40 with spears/shields and a chieftan with skaven brew in my lists. They seem to do pretty well if another CR, SV, or PM unit is running along with it.

eron12
04-05-2011, 04:49
Yes, unless the unit has ASF like high elves, or certain dark elves don't do it. Hell a good portion of the time, its a hard choice for high elves since they cost so much per guy, and have really bad armor/toughness.

No unit of HEs have the option to take spears. Spearmen, seaguard, reavers, and charioteers come with them standard.

Personally I don't think the spear is worth it in many cases, saurus warriors being the only unit I've given much consideration to.

adam-stronach
04-05-2011, 06:28
in my VC army i always run 30 skellies with spears and 30 with out

AMWOOD co
04-05-2011, 06:59
I ran the number for your clan rats (and this would apply for skellies), having 2 units beat the %#@! out of eachother. I did it once for 5 wide and once for 10 wide horde, seeing how many casualties are scored in each round (I assume spears don't charge in each case).

5 wide:
Swords lose 2.083 per round
Spears lose 1.667 per round

10 wide:
Spears lose 5.000 per round
Swords lose 5.556 per round

If the spears do charge, the swordsmen (swordsrats?) lose 1.389 and 4.167 on the first round for the units in respective order, so they will even out the losses in 1 or 2 rounds of combat after that.

It really comes down to what you want. If you are trying to maximize damage output, go spears (any horde unit should consider spears if that's the choice). If you are trying to minimize your casualties, try leaving your pointy sticks at home.

Haravikk
04-05-2011, 13:02
The main problem is that in 8th edition the addition of supporting attacks means that the single attack models with any weapon have doubled in value, while spears have only gone up 50% (or less in the case of High Elves). Even more pronounced when combined with the horde rule, which gives the same benefit simply for fielding a large enough unit 10-wide, i.e - free of charge, provided you were planning to field a big unit anyway.

So the choice comes down to; do you want a smattering of extra attacks when charged, or better overall effectiveness, and the latter will usually win as hand weapon and shields gives the same offensive strength on the charge, with better protection. Or you can go for halberds or great weapons for improved Strength which makes you a lot more likely to Wound than the extra attacks from spears would.

Until the cost of the spear & shield combo is adjusted to balance against hand weapon & shield, then it's not that viable except on units that already have a base Strength of 4, and a good number of attacks in their front rank.

Andy p
04-05-2011, 13:19
All I know is that on my goblins spears are useful, but on my savage orcs it is almost pointless, and sword and shield is even worse.