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Teongpeng
16-04-2011, 17:23
A friend of mine brought up a tactic he heard from somewhere regarding challenges.

Scenario: demon prince charges a block of 6X4 infantry block in the rear. The champion in the infantry block issues a challenge. The rulebook states that the model accepting the challenge is moved into base contact with the challenger. Since the champion is located in the front of the unit (remember that the demon prince charged in the rear), does this mean we move the demon prince to the front to accept the challenge, thus negating his rear charge bonus?

thoughts?

Korraz
16-04-2011, 17:52
The passage also states that you don't have to move the challengers if it is impossible to move them.
In this case, it's impossible.

Teongpeng
16-04-2011, 18:43
Yeah but what if some smartass wants to argue that there is no where in the book that says its impossible to move the demon prince to the front because the rule for accepting challenges clearly instruct u to move him into base contact.

I'm a lousy arguer when it comes to things like these. :(

Korraz
16-04-2011, 20:17
In that case I suggest my Patent #1:
A whack with the BRB.

BaSe
16-04-2011, 22:18
He's still initially charged in the rear even if he's had to fight to the front. Bonus still stands IMHO

Bodysnatcher
17-04-2011, 10:02
Surely you move the champion in this case as the DP can't move?

Dante blackfur
17-04-2011, 16:23
another reason you wouldn't/shouldn't move the DP is that if you did then if he killed the champ the attacked unit would be free to attack with all they're models which defeat the purpose of having hiom charge the back to get the +3 CR and prevent the unit from getting supporting attacks.

Teongpeng
17-04-2011, 18:02
yeah....but what if the guy insist that u move the DP to the front...because the rule for accepting challenges say that you do that. And there is nothing that says you cant move to the front.

TMATK
17-04-2011, 18:36
yeah....but what if the guy insist that u move the DP to the front...because the rule for accepting challenges say that you do that. And there is nothing that says you cant move to the front.

Point out the most important rule. If the roll goes against you, be sure and challenge with your DP so he can't be pulled out of the rear.

I think it's very unlikely that challenges would allow pulling a character from one flank to another, but unfortunately the rules do not cover it.

Talk it over with your opponent before the game if you think it will be an issue.

H33D
17-04-2011, 19:23
I thought that the rule for accepting challenges was that the model was moved within the unit, not just anywhere.

TMATK
17-04-2011, 19:28
If the model is alone it moves, from the faq.

H33D
18-04-2011, 03:08
thanks for clearing that up for me TMATK!

Teongpeng
18-04-2011, 03:22
Is there any rule on which side issues the challenge first?

Yamabushi
18-04-2011, 03:25
The player who's turn it is has the priority in issuing challenges

Teongpeng
18-04-2011, 04:05
The player who's turn it is has the priority in issuing challengesSo the following combat phase, during the block player's turn, he can issue the challenge thus pulling the DP to the front?
:(

This tactic can be extremely beardy because if the block unit managed to get a reform after combat, he can position his challenging model in a way that would move the DP into an unfavourable position in the following round of combat.

Example of unfavourable position? move him closer to a board edge where if the solo character loses combat and flees, he does so off the board. Sumo wrestling? Sumohammer!

CaptBenedict
18-04-2011, 04:57
In the original scenario, you mentioned that it was the DP that charges the block in the rear. That gives said DP the opportunity to issue challenges 1st; therefore forcing the block's champion or Character to the rear as well.

If the DP player hadn't issued a challenge, then the player should still abide by what ever rules we have and move the DP to the front of the block as per the Rulebook and apparently the FAQ.

In the subsequent round of combat, the block could reform and tactically run the DP off the board as you mentioned. But that's all still part of the game and allows for some good use of the knowledge of the rules to pull off. But what ever the situation, the DP has lost it's Charge bonus and the attacking from the Rear bonus.

Trains_Get_Robbed
18-04-2011, 05:11
Why is Korraz the only one to point out that in the Brb it says that if it is impossible to move them into contact then, just leave them and 'imagaine' that they were -but for intent and purposes they are in a challenge.

CaptBenedict
18-04-2011, 05:20
Maybe because it's not 'impossible' to move the models to be in base to base?

Teongpeng
18-04-2011, 05:26
In the original scenario, you mentioned that it was the DP that charges the block in the rear. That gives said DP the opportunity to issue challenges 1st; therefore forcing the block's champion or Character to the rear as well.

If the DP player hadn't issued a challenge, then the player should still abide by what ever rules we have and move the DP to the front of the block as per the Rulebook and apparently the FAQ.

In the subsequent round of combat, the block could reform and tactically run the DP off the board as you mentioned. But that's all still part of the game and allows for some good use of the knowledge of the rules to pull off. But what ever the situation, the DP has lost it's Charge bonus and the attacking from the Rear bonus.Thats exactly what i meant. Just that i think thats a cheesy rulelawyery thing to do. And i'm here to get a general consensus.

Teongpeng
18-04-2011, 05:41
Why is Korraz the only one to point out that in the Brb it says that if it is impossible to move them into contact then, just leave them and 'imagaine' that they were -but for intent and purposes they are in a challenge.yes. i agree. the fact that you are allowed to imagine them in base contact shows that the rule is merely meant for aesthetics.

Thats is why i find it a bit wrong to interpret a fluffy rule to twist a mechanic of the game to gain an advantage.

Lord Inquisitor
18-04-2011, 05:49
Surely you move the champion in this case as the DP can't move?

Weirdly there's nothing saying a challenger moves, even if the challenged party can't make it into contact and the challenger could make contact by moving.