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MarshallSam
16-04-2011, 23:35
Like the title says. We all here how these beautiful Citadel Minatures make the game, but what exactly is Citadel? As far as I knew the company was called Games Workshop. And Games Workshop made both the minatures and rules for the games they produce. Now we know that Forgeworld is a subsidiary of Games Workshop. Is Citadel a subsidiary as well? Is Citadel the main manufacturor for Games Workshop? I wouldn't even just say minatures because Citadel is on just about every except printed material. Everything from terrain to paints and brushes to tools and even superglue :wtf:!

So I ask you Warseer: What is Citdadel? :confused::confused::confused:

Charax
16-04-2011, 23:39
GW bought up Citadel early on, thus gained their own manufacturing capability (Games Workshop used to be like any other game store, pretty much) and led to them being able to make their own games and accompanying miniature lines.

Emperors Teeth
16-04-2011, 23:40
Wikipedia can answer this better than I ever could... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citadel_Miniatures

Here's a quote of a quote from that article:
"Games Workshop and Bryan Ansell have got together to form Citadel Miniatures, a new miniatures company that will be manufacturing several ranges of figures. Ral Partha are already in production, but Citadel will also be producing own ranges, including the Fiend Factory figures, Fantasy Adventurers and Fantasy Specials. Citadel will not be limiting production to SF/F figures, but also new ranges of historical wargaming figures."
From WD no.11 1979.

Lord_Squinty
17-04-2011, 00:36
A long time ago there were Citadel miniatures...

GW created rules for playing with those miniatures and eventually took them over.
They are now one and the same beast, but originally 2 seperate companies.

MarshallSam
17-04-2011, 01:40
Thanks for the answers, but it leads to another question. If Games Workshop effectively took over Citadel, then why is the Citadel logo still on 99% of their products? Why not just do away with the Citadel brand altogether?

Harry
17-04-2011, 05:45
A long time ago there were Citadel miniatures...

GW created rules for playing with those miniatures and eventually took them over.
They are now one and the same beast, but originally 2 seperate companies.
A long time ago there was Dungeons and Dragons ...

Games Workshop, was only one shop at the time and importing and selling roleplaying games. Citadel miniatures was set up to make figures for those games. White Dwarf was a general Role Playing games magazine.


Games workshop began manufacturing there own games and eventually stopped selling all the others, White Dwarf eventually only focussed on GW games and not on all the others and Citadel miniatures increasingly focussed on making minis to fit there games/backgrounds rather than generic games miniatures.



Thanks for the answers, but it leads to another question. If Games Workshop effectively took over Citadel, then why is the Citadel logo still on 99% of their products? Why not just do away with the Citadel brand altogether?
Because just as White Dwarf had established itself as the best Games Magazine on the market. Citadel Miniatures were established as the best Miniatures. Citadel miniatures and White Dwarf were stronger brands then GW back then. They were known globally when GW still only had a handful of shops and a couple of games to its name. Citadel as a brand had come to stand for something .... The best toy soldiers .... it was too valuable to just do away with.

Hochdorf
17-04-2011, 06:03
I love the classic Citadel logo. Has anyone else noticed that, in addition to being a picture of a citadel, it looks like an incredibly rocking electric guitar? I'd love to have a custom guitar made that's the exact shape and pattern of the Citadel logo.

Edit: That reminds me, at one point I seem to recall that GW had its own band called Wraith. Does anyone know what happened to them or what their official relationship to the company was? I know some groups (e.g. Bolt Thrower) were inspired by GW material, but I think Wraith was actually advertised in WD. Anyone know anything about this?

shelfunit.
17-04-2011, 07:20
I love the classic Citadel logo. Has anyone else noticed that, in addition to being a picture of a citadel, it looks like an incredibly rocking electric guitar? I'd love to have a custom guitar made that's the exact shape and pattern of the Citadel logo.

Edit: That reminds me, at one point I seem to recall that GW had its own band called Wraith. Does anyone know what happened to them or what their official relationship to the company was? I know some groups (e.g. Bolt Thrower) were inspired by GW material, but I think Wraith was actually advertised in WD. Anyone know anything about this?

Not too sure - dredged this up from our old friend wiki...


Music

In the late 1980s the death metal band "Bolt Thrower" wrote lyrics dedicated to the Warhammer 40,000 universe and used 40k artwork on their first album cover.

In the early 1990s, Games Workshop created its own short-lived record company, Warhammer Records. The only band under this label was D-Rok (who published one album, Oblivion, in 1991). A fragment of D-Rok's song "Get Out of My Way" was used in the computer game "Space Hulk", published by Electronic Arts in 1992.

In early 2000s, the German label Art of Perception produced a 12 part soundtrack vinyl series followed by three CD compilations. The task for the artists involved in this project was to conduct a theme for a species from the Warhammer 40.000 universe.

In 2009, the Singaporean Death Metal band, Deus Ex Machina released I, Human, which makes numerous references to the Warhammer 40,000 universe, particularly the Adeptus Mechanicus faction.[1]

In 2011,South African technical death metal band,Imperium of Man,began work on their E.P deriving much lyrical influences from the Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 universe.The demo is yet to be released.

Games Workshop produced CD recordings and soundtracks for several of its collectors' edition novels, including the Gaunt's Ghosts.

Last bit sounds fun...

FabricatorGeneralMike
17-04-2011, 07:47
In 2011,South African technical death metal band,Imperium of Man,began work on their E.P deriving much lyrical influences from the Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 universe.The demo is yet to be released.



^^OooOhh that sounds interesting. I might have to do a little investigation on this. ;)


As the pie said, the Citadel name was well known and respected.....at one time. :shifty:

MarshallSam
17-04-2011, 13:30
Because just as White Dwarf had established itself as the best Games Magazine on the market. Citadel Miniatures were established as the best Miniatures. Citadel miniatures and White Dwarf were stronger brands then GW back then. They were known globally when GW still only had a handful of shops and a couple of games to its name. Citadel as a brand had come to stand for something .... The best toy soldiers .... it was too valuable to just do away with.

Thanks for that. Now I understand.

Wintertooth
17-04-2011, 14:04
Strictly speaking, Citadel bought Games Workshop, not vice versa. Bryan Ansell bought out Jackson and Livingstone. Among other things, that distinction led to the company being based in Nottingham, not London where it was originally founded.

yabbadabba
17-04-2011, 17:26
Citadel was recently revived for a few reasons, not least being ownership of the name in the market, but also because it could if things got difficult get sold off. Its been used to "brand" various items like the modelling tools etc. Wraith was contracted to Warhammer records, briefly, and GW have my Wraith album with the GW art on the front, signed by the band. Unfortunately the people who I lent it to no longer work there, so I have no proof to get it back :(.

blongbling
18-04-2011, 07:37
As Yabba says, GW is looking to use Citadel as a "brand" again for the modelling accessories.

RobC
18-04-2011, 09:32
Strictly speaking, Citadel bought Games Workshop, not vice versa. Bryan Ansell bought out Jackson and Livingstone. Among other things, that distinction led to the company being based in Nottingham, not London where it was originally founded.Emphasis mine. Wintertooth is entirely correct. Note a lot of staff left GW when it moved to Nottingham; there was even an infamous acrostic within the contents page of the last issue of White Dwarf before the move.

yabbadabba
18-04-2011, 09:54
Emphasis mine. Wintertooth is entirely correct. Note a lot of staff left GW when it moved to Nottingham; there was even an infamous acrostic within the contents page of the last issue of White Dwarf before the move. I seem to remember a similar sort of situation when WD bought out Warlock magazine. Hmm must dig out that old copy.......

fluffystuff
18-04-2011, 10:28
I love the classic Citadel logo. Has anyone else noticed that, in addition to being a picture of a citadel, it looks like an incredibly rocking electric guitar? I'd love to have a custom guitar made that's the exact shape and pattern of the Citadel logo.

Edit: That reminds me, at one point I seem to recall that GW had its own band called Wraith. Does anyone know what happened to them or what their official relationship to the company was? I know some groups (e.g. Bolt Thrower) were inspired by GW material, but I think Wraith was actually advertised in WD. Anyone know anything about this?

It's from the front cover of the Fighting Fantasy book , Citadel of Chaos by Steve Jackson.

lanrak
18-04-2011, 10:36
Hi all.
I was wondering with GWplc firmly focused on '...selling toy soldiers...'.
Wouldnt 'Citadel Minatures' be a more apt name for the company?

TTFN

yabbadabba
18-04-2011, 10:47
Hi all.
I was wondering with GWplc firmly focused on '...selling toy soldiers...'.
Wouldnt 'Citadel Minatures' be a more apt name for the company?
TTFN Not really.

Chaos and Evil
18-04-2011, 11:04
Games Workshop is a much stronger brand, and is simply more marketable to parents to boot.

RobC
18-04-2011, 13:16
I seem to remember a similar sort of situation when WD bought out Warlock magazine. Hmm must dig out that old copy.......I think/suspect that there was already some form of shared ownership. Marc Gascoigne, then editor of Warlock, was also designing games for GW (and taking the mickey out of LARPers in WD).

Hochdorf
19-04-2011, 00:17
Thanks for the info, everyone. I will try to find some Wraith tracks somewhere. I wonder if it's been uploaded by anyone?

0VERL0RD
19-04-2011, 02:16
Probably late to the party, but it's my understanding that Citadel is owned by Games Workshop, and they manufacture all of the miniatures (and just about all supplies) which are sold by Games Workshop at extraodrinarily high prices.

RobC
19-04-2011, 10:55
Probably late to the party, but it's my understanding that Citadel is owned by Games Workshop, and they manufacture all of the miniatures (and just about all supplies) which are sold by Games Workshop at extraodrinarily high prices.I dislike having to flat-out contradict someone, but in this case I don't want received wisdom overpowering the facts.

Citadel Miniatures was owned by Bryan Ansell and Games Workshop. In 1986, Citadel bought out GW - in other words, Citadel owned GW.

But as with most corporate concerns, the names barely matter. The entity that is GW PLC bears little resemblance to the company in 1986, let alone the one owned by Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone in the 1970s. Only a handful of staff from original GW now work for the company.