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View Full Version : best combination of magic lores for dark elves?



librerian_samae
18-04-2011, 16:25
Ive been playing my dark elves for a while now with 2 sorceress' (lvl 2 fire and lvl 4 dark with tome of furion) but after rejigging my list I have now got 2 lvl 3, one on a dark peg and 1 lvl 2. Now I was planning on the lvl 3's having dark and shadow with the lvl 2 having fire. Now this gives me 2 high damage dealers and one buffer/debuffer supreme. Recently Iv'e been thinking og going for lvl 3 death and shadow and lvl 2 dark to give me more suport spells and some nuke/PD gain, which will work best?

Don Zeko
18-04-2011, 18:09
I run a Level 4 with Shadow and a level 2 with Metal. I'm not sure about your particular build, but I find that shadow is just a tremendously useful lore, particularly for Elves, and that metal's signature fills in one of the army's conspicuous weaknesses: getting rid of well-armored targets. I've not had a huge amount of success with it, but in theory shadow's debuffs combine very well with Soul Stealer and Black Horror in Dark magic. I'm not a big fan of Fire for dark elves. In general, I find that repeater crossbows work better than spells for most ranged damage dealing, so you're better off buffing, debuffing, and dropping big nasties in pits with your magic.

librerian_samae
18-04-2011, 19:21
used to run the fire sorceress as a metal but one of my main opponents was brettonians and I began to feel guilty about the signature spell gutting his main line units :p
But yes shadow seems amazing from tests so far.
Im just trying to gauge how usefull death will be over dark as a main line lore. plus how better as a gun platform dark will be over fire at a lower lvl.
the lower lvl run with hand bow corsairs, the non shadow large damage dealer on a dark pegie, shadow sorceror goes in the main battle line

sulla
19-04-2011, 03:56
Shadow is the best all round lore for DE but it does lack reliable ranged damage, so you are going to want to get into close range (either combat or rxb short range) fairly quickly.

Dark is the best massed damage lore, although it will struggle vs high toughness and/or high MR.

Death is a great bully lore. Incredible if purple sun if good vs your opponents, not so good vs high stat armies like WoC. Soulblight is probably the best spell in any lore for DE though.

Metal is a buff/debuff lore with a few poor damage spells that can situationally become a little better than average. Mostly, Dark will do far better for far lower caqsting values.

Fire is a lore that gets worse the higher up the spell chart you get. In a perfect world, you'd get fireball, flaming sword and possibly the other buff spell and call it quits on this lore.

I like shadow/dark for your two main casters. I don't know if I'd bother with a third caster. You could get a cauldron instead of the other; it does better than most spells and doesn't use up power dice...

librerian_samae
19-04-2011, 06:52
thanks for the run down. Ive looked at the cauldron but it dosnt fit into my hero allowence :( as I use fellheart and a bsb, using the rest of my hero limit as an anti horde magic platform to up the damage and buff my ranged corsairs seems to work so far but im having trouble finding the most efficiant lore to use. death pros is extra pd but can be a bit hit and miss, fire really pumps out the shots but lacks in str. metal ive found to be a bit all or nothing damage wise but I do like some of its buffs.

Scythe
19-04-2011, 07:12
Metal is a buff/debuff lore with a few poor damage spells that can situationally become a little better than average. Mostly, Dark will do far better for far lower caqsting values.


It is more than 'a little better' than average against the right targets. It can easily reach the equivallent of S7/8/9 hits against the proper targets, and has a very reliable unit remover spell which doesn't rely on enemy stats (next to some usefull buffs / hexes). One of the big things for me though is the ability to deal with units DEs often struggle against; things like Steam Tanks, Chaos Knights etc. It effectively counters a weakness of the DE list, which makes it quite usefull imho.

ftayl5
19-04-2011, 09:47
Level 4 shadow and level 2 Metal is the way to go IMO. Though I think the Dark Elf lore is neat too - could be used instead of Metal. The level 4 shadow is pretty standard, I don't see too many lists without one. It'll depend on your meta game a bit. If you face predominantly horde armies, Dark will do better than Metal, but if you face Chaos or Dwarfs etc, Metal will do better.

sulla
19-04-2011, 19:39
It is more than 'a little better' than average against the right targets. It can easily reach the equivallent of S7/8/9 hits against the proper targets, and has a very reliable unit remover spell which doesn't rely on enemy stats (next to some usefull buffs / hexes). One of the big things for me though is the ability to deal with units DEs often struggle against; things like Steam Tanks, Chaos Knights etc. It effectively counters a weakness of the DE list, which makes it quite usefull imho.

Unbuffed, the default is about 3 wounds vs knights. You can do similar with black horror or soulstealer and much better vs big units of infantry (i.e. more versatile). The super version only averages 6 kills, which while good vs vanilla knights, is underwhelming vs knights with a ward save or MR or dragon princes. Yes it's ok vs the stank, but pit and purple sun are miles better and don't give the empire a chance to heal the tank back up. And if you face a stank, you're just as likely to face two. In that case, your 6 wounds per turn you get the spell through just isn't gonna cut it.

Death, shadow and dark also counter DE weaknesses too. Death assassinates enemy characters and huge hordes or big low I monsters that we have trouble with. Shadow reduces the s/t gap between our troops and others as well as having a chance of hurting those same lo I enemies. Dark has mass carnage, shooting mitigation and cc hex spells.

Scythe
20-04-2011, 06:29
Unbuffed, the default is about 3 wounds vs knights. You can do similar with black horror or soulstealer and much better vs big units of infantry (i.e. more versatile).

Problems with the mentioned dark magic spells are limited range, significant loss of effectiveness vs S4/T4 or higher cavalry targets, no ability to do multiple wounds against a single target (eg, monster or character), and (and this is a big one for lvl1/2 wizards) not being the signature spell, so no guarantee you get the spell you want.


The super version only averages 6 kills, which while good vs vanilla knights, is underwhelming vs knights with a ward save or MR or dragon princes.

Aside from the princes, I hardly find the wards a problem, as they are quite uncommon in my experience. And the Brettonian 6+ doesn't scare me at all.


Yes it's ok vs the stank, but pit and purple sun are miles better and don't give the empire a chance to heal the tank back up. And if you face a stank, you're just as likely to face two. In that case, your 6 wounds per turn you get the spell through just isn't gonna cut it.

Again, assuming you get the spells. Of course, with your lvl 4 shadow mage, getting pit is quite likely. For me though, the main thing is that I can threathen a tank or big monster and reliably knock a few wounds of when cast, not relying on further scatter / random distance.


Death, shadow and dark also counter DE weaknesses too. Death assassinates enemy characters and huge hordes or big low I monsters that we have trouble with. Shadow reduces the s/t gap between our troops and others as well as having a chance of hurting those same lo I enemies. Dark has mass carnage, shooting mitigation and cc hex spells.

All lores which work best on a lvl 4 in my experience, as you really want a big chance of getting the spells you want there. Shadows works ok on a lvl2 as supporter for a lvl 4 death/dark mage, especially if you get the S/T reducing spells in addition to the signature spell, but then... shadows is also just amazing on a lvl 4 as well.

sulla
20-04-2011, 19:11
All lores which work best on a lvl 4 in my experience, as you really want a big chance of getting the spells you want there. Shadows works ok on a lvl2 as supporter for a lvl 4 death/dark mage, especially if you get the S/T reducing spells in addition to the signature spell, but then... shadows is also just amazing on a lvl 4 as well.Fair enough. For lvl 2's, metal is definately a good option, for the default, as is death. The low casting values on dark make it good if you take the tome to get a good chance of a useful spell. Fireball is worth considering for the versatility of fireball.

Mostly these days, I have dropped my second caster for the slightly more expensive option of a second cauldron. I had the model anyway, and then I don't have to worry about where to safely hide a second caster (I'm trying not to put 2 characters in any unit to reduce the risk from s5 templates or superspells. Generally, I find the 5+ ward for a unit much better than the utility of a second caster.