View Full Version : Toms Youtube Battle Reports

Pages : [1] 2 3 4

18-04-2011, 23:40
First videos will be coming up shortly.

Feedback is more than welcome, and I'm more than happy to explain anything I do which I might not cover very well in a report, so feel free to drop me a PM or post in here with any questions.

19-04-2011, 01:58
2013 EDIT:

I've had a couple of people say the sheer volume of these reports was putting them off, and I'm also a little bit concerned that people might watch the first couple of reports and get put off by them because, to be honest, it took me a little while to hit my stride with them. For new watchers, I'd recommend starting with my more recent reports and then if you enjoy them, you have a big backlog to catch up on. I'd suggest the Tempest 8 reports as a good starting point, as they're a series of reports where I played relatively well and, more importantly, had a lot of fun playing the games which really carries over into them.

Either way, have a nice day.

Don Zeko
19-04-2011, 02:32
Exciting! Haven't had time to watch them all yet and I hate to nitpick, but you really need to do something about the sound quality of the narration. Are you recording in a noisy room?

Don Zeko
19-04-2011, 03:03
Ouch. Tough loss. That witch elf flee roll was pretty tragic. But with 4 more rounds, I'm sure that they'll have a chance to earn their keep.

19-04-2011, 03:05
At the moment I'm just recording off of my laptop, hopefully I'll be able to get my hands on a decent microphone before too long.

19-04-2011, 06:59
Just watched the first video now. Agree that the sound quality needs to be worked on.

Also can I suggest you take photo's of the individual units to show when you're running through your army list? Or even talking about your army list during your deployment explanation. The first 3 mins is just looking at the blue slide with the headline text - and combined with the sound quality it's pretty hard to keep track of everything you've said. Just my two pennies :)

19-04-2011, 10:58
Thanks for the feedback :)

What I'll do next time is take a photo of my army beforehand.

19-04-2011, 12:27
What I'll do next time is take a photo of my army beforehand.

I don't know if that's needed. That's what bunkertube used to do and really all it does is force you to repeat yourself when you are explaining deployment.

I find it best to just explain your list and deployment at the same time on the deployment picture.

19-04-2011, 13:08
Hmm... maybe if I just show my army in a picture before the first game, and not in the rest?

Updated with game 3.

19-04-2011, 18:53
Lot of tuff luck- good to see all the painted armies.

19-04-2011, 19:06
Not a bad report. I would suggest that you spend less time on the introduction. 3 minutes into it I got bored and sped ahead, and you were still talking with no game playing. Get to the game! ;) I'll check the others to see if they are the same way. And as other mentioned, the sound was pretty bad. These aren't easy to do, so I give you props for doing it! Nice work.

Hard loss for the elves. Sorry to see them go down that way! Better luck next time.

19-04-2011, 19:16
The long intro is just in the first report, because I go over my list. In the future, I'll put a picture up of my army so you can see what I'm talking about. My next tournament is in early May, so hopefully I'll have a decent microphone by then.

Thanks for the feedback :)

Also, now updated to have all 6 games.

20-04-2011, 02:07
I jumped to the 6th video just to see if you got things worked out and it's obvious that you did.

The sound isn't perfect but it's leaps and bounds better than the first one.

Now to go back and check out the rest ;)

20-04-2011, 02:11
Thanks Mal, I actually had to re-record the 6th game because I had my fan on in the background the first time...

"So, here on my left flank CCRRRRRRRRRRRRR over there, and now looking at the cen- CCCCRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"

Very annoying...

I basically just changed rooms, moved the cat, moved all my papers etc.

20-04-2011, 02:12
Great reports, thanks for posting

20-04-2011, 08:50
I jumped to the 6th video just to see if you got things worked out and it's obvious that you did.

The sound isn't perfect but it's leaps and bounds better than the first one.

Now to go back and check out the rest ;)

I agree. The other reports are better. Nice job.


giant stegadon
20-04-2011, 13:04
I just watched the 2nd game b/c of time- sound doesnt seem that bad. For the beginning and end you could either have a slide show of up close pics of your army or informative text with either army info at the start & "good" & "bad" or something at the end.

Just some criticism- keep making video batreps!

20-04-2011, 13:20
Thanks for the feedback guys. I think in the future I'll put a close up pic of my army at the start while I go over what's in my list and spells etc, and I'll try to note down the VP scores so I can put them on a slide at the end.

Hopefully I'll be getting some more games in this week under the ETC comp, so all things going well I should have another report or 2 up by next week.

20-04-2011, 13:52
Subscribed, when you fix your sound problems these are very nice reports.

03-05-2011, 11:17
First post has been updated with 3 games under the ETC comp for Call to War, which is this weekend.

09-05-2011, 15:41
Call to War tournament games going up shortly, second post has been updated with the CtW army preview video (let me know if you like this idea, or if you'd prefer it to be part of the first game)

10-05-2011, 18:00
First post has been updated with all 6 games from Call to War, as well as my tournament summary

Toe Cutter
12-05-2011, 21:54
Thanks for putting up the reports as they have been most educational. Your presentation has greatly improved over the reports as well. The investment in improved audio is very much appreciated.

A couple of quick points about your gameplay if I may.

You sometimes seem to lack a plan B. If your first plan goes off then everything goes well but if it doesn't then your play appears to unravel sometimes. Take your last game against the daemons for example. You were aware that his lord of change would be looking to pit of shades your hydra yet you rather let him do that and when he did, you didn't seem to have much of an answer to it. The range of pit of shades is only 24". If you have a bit nasty gribbly with a big sign saying 'pit me' stuck to his forehead then why not leave that in the corner of your deployment zone as bait, with your witches in a position to counter charge the chicken if he takes the bait. As you said yourself - a minor loss as a result of castling would have been acceptable yet you didn't seem to try for this. Instead the hydra died and then you committed your witches and lord character piece meal into combat with his fiends. If they'd gone in together then maybe they'd have done better. Yes your lord shouldn't have died so quickly but it was always a possibility. If you'd blocked his fiends charge with some harpies or the sacrificial warrior block for a turn then when the lord did charge in he could have been supported by witches if needed. Also if the witches look like they're going to get shot up on the way in then a skirmish screen of harpies will at least make it more difficult to hit them.

To return to the issue of a lack of plan B - you didn't have a dispell scroll or much in the way of magic defense in your list. Dark elves aren't bad at magic but they aren't the best. There will be armies that will dominate your magic phases - at present you don't seem to have much answer to that other than bemoaning the lack of okkams razor. Similarly your warriors seemed to default to horde formation. Fine when they're playing against less hitty stuff but against things like chaos warriors you're just gifting him extra attacks for no real benefit to yourself.

The other issue is you sometimes seem to lose focus on the route to the win. In your practice match prior to the call to war tournament against your mates warriors of chaos, you got into a position after turn two or three where you could have won easily yet it slipped away and you ended up with a draw. Similarly when playing the lizardmen, if you'd have found a way of shooting up the salamander that eventually stopped misfiring and killed off your level fours bunker before it figured out which way it was supposed to be pointing then you would have had a solid victory. As it was you got wooped. Similar story when playing against the dark elf army. Why were your shades and cross bows wasting time shooting up his unit of cross bows when the two units that mattered that they could have shot at were his hydra and his witches. If you'd have spent more time shooting his witches then again the outcome could have been different.

Sorry if this seems like a bit of a rant but listening to you get into a tiz at the end of the daemons game was frustrating and while I quite like your reports you need to find a way of sorting that kind of thing out mate.

13-05-2011, 14:05
Thanks for the reports - they are very well done and informative. As Malorian indicated, they could be trimmed a bit, but you definitely have improved in no time at all.

13-05-2011, 15:21
Thanks for the feedback

13-05-2011, 16:45
That's a good set of reports.

Your improving fast and pumping out a lot of reports :)

13-05-2011, 17:03
There's gonna be a hiatus of 2 weeks or so with maybe just one game, but then then end of the month will see another tournament.

Not quite decided what I'm taking yet, but there's a chance that... Here be Dragons...

16-05-2011, 12:35
I really enjoyed your reports thanks for sharing.

17-05-2011, 23:24
Hi mate, thanks for the reports!

I liked the games and the presentation, once the sound problems had been solved.

And a very nicely painted army you have there! The pictures in the BRs certainly do not do your minis any justice. As a suggestion, I´d say you put one or two close ups photos into the BRs to show them off! Plus I find that this kind of close ups increase the dramaticity of reports, making them feel more like a story.

As to your comments about changing the army and the boredom about moving forward and than buffing with okham´s or hexing the respective enemy with withering, I can only agree... but you know, that´s not the only way to play Dark Elves, right? I don´t like that whole 8th focus on massive hordes plus magic buffing and, IMHO, there´s still a place for more interesting manouvre and combined charges tactics, particularly with DE.

One thing I´d have expected would be combined charges with the Spearmen and Hydra/Chuck, using them in deep infantry blocks to get/negate steadfast and getting the hammer´s killing power. I was a little bewildered about the constant horde deployment for them too. Against warmachines, this makes sense. Otherwise, not so much.

18-05-2011, 01:16
Thanks for the kind words guys :)

I know it's not the only way to play Dark Elves, but I've found it to be the most effective. I don't know if you've listened to my Call to War summary videos, but in those I go over how it's relatively expensive for me to go to a tournament, so if I do I want to have the best list and playstyle I can go in with. However, having done with a few times now, it's starting to wear thin a bit.

This is why there's a stupid Lizards list in the works...

As to the spearmen, I think the main reason for the permanent horde is that I use them like that on the trays to carry them around, and then I never really think of making them shorter when I deploy them... this is part of the reason I don't pull off combo charge much either I think, because the wide blocks are harder to manoeuvre around.

Also, having them wide does suit their role, which is to try and control some space because of the threat of extra attack + Mindrazor.

18-05-2011, 04:56
EtC rules harsh....Daemons harsher...
Good job all around-felt bad for dwarf and empire player.
I totatly would have ignored trying to kill Big Bird-seems hopeless unless you got a sure thing-like The war crime Dwellars.

18-05-2011, 09:58
Nice reports, subscribed to your channel, you have been really improving ;)

18-05-2011, 11:48
Hooray! More youtube batreps that don't have shakey-cam syndrome, and from a fellow Brit! Keep up the good work :D

One suggestion: you sometimes get ahead of yourself and explain things that happen later in the battle before they happen (if that makes sense). This takes away the suspense and should just be described when it happens :)

18-05-2011, 14:18
I'll see what I can do.

Thanks guys :D

23-05-2011, 11:49

can you post a picture of your converted witch elves ?


23-05-2011, 13:13
I'll get one up soon, I don't keep the pics after I've put the videos up.

However, there are a couple of decent pictures in this video at 12.00 onwards:


27-05-2011, 04:47
Second post has been updated with the Tempest: Ragnarok preview video.

Follow me on twitter @tmarichards to see how the dragon gets on! RRAAAAAAARGGHHHHHHHH

31-05-2011, 15:32
Tempest: Ragnarok reports uploading to Youtube now. Second post updated with first 3 games.


31-05-2011, 20:30
Awe. Hard Luck. Donde esta el BsB ?? Ou est le bsb ??
With the performance of Your dragon lord it is clear he should be benched for a bsb-who would have served you better (most of all in that last battle-can dark Elve take a normal bsb?)
How are the lizards coming along or do you plan to stick it out with the dark elves and get some executioners (or convert some from reg spear elves-I have seen executioners with candy canes on once bittens reports)

31-05-2011, 21:12
I would've rather had a paraplegic mouse than that dragon...

Lizards will be getting started from scratch soon, either them or Wood Elves. I think Wood Elves would suit my playstyle better.

31-05-2011, 21:41
I would wait for the new book on wood elves. The army is wayy too pricy with all the metal fugues. Further there tactics are limite due to 8th and 6th edition unit prices.
I am afraid that everything will be converted to resin insstead of platic. As of now I have been too cheap to buy a tree man( a dragon was cheaper on eBay of you can believe it )- which really hurts.

Marshal Augustine
01-06-2011, 02:51
I think the rants and cue in the Defeat blue screen... priceless. :D

Don Zeko
01-06-2011, 04:49
What did I tell you about those Cold Ones? Not the absolute best use of your points, but a solid unit that will still treat you right.

01-06-2011, 09:12
I think the rants and cue in the Defeat blue screen... priceless. :D

I aim to please :)

@Don- yeah, the knights were good. They would've been much better with a Cauldron, and I think overall I was a bit cautious with them because it was my first game with them in a long long time.

01-06-2011, 13:18
I just wanted to say thank you for posting these. I've actually watched all of your batreps and the style is excellent for anyone who wants a detailed commentary on tactical decisions and the like. I always look forward to more of them.

By the way that Great Eagle in your High Elf game deserves an award. Has to be by far the hardest eagle in Ulthuan. I imagine he beats up the other eagles and takes their lunch money (or perhaps Great Worms, whatever they eat other than Black Guard).

On a more serious note I'd agree that some of that comp is very strange and there are some pretty gaping holes in it. Having said that, no doubt it's extremely difficult to design comp restrictions that are airtight when you're going for anything that strict. VC just got awfully hosed though, and some really decent armies like Empire got off fairly easy. Actually, I am genuinely surprised that an Empire army didn't win considering that they can still easily fit multiple cannons (say, two plus a mortar or Hellstorm) with an Engineer (and with the prevalance of monsters that appeared to be there that is quite strong) and just utterly shut down anyone's magic via Arch Lector/Priests. They could also get a unit of 40 Greatswords with free command.

Two Cauldrons being permitted is, as you said, a bit of an oversight as well :).

EDIT: Oh, and it is certainly hard for me to shed a tear for Skaven, but that's another army where it seems it would be exceedingly difficult to make a strong list under that comp.

02-06-2011, 02:56
I agree 40 models to a unit is harsh on Skaven- their troops are so crappy- I think 50 models to a unit is a good standard along with a limit of 400 pts-

Of course the banning of the stormbanner and the doomrocket also seemed about right-

03-06-2011, 17:04
Thanks for all the encouragement and feedback gents.

I've updated the second post with another couple of videos, I'm trying something new- basically, instead of just running over my list that I'm taking to a tournament, I build the list from scratch explaining why I put some things into the list, and why I leave some things out.

I think newer players would find it more informative, but hopefully even more experienced players will find a gem or two.

As ever, these are meant to be entertaining and sometimes informative, and remember that I'm only ranked 105th in the UK (at the time of typing I've just dropped out of the top 100 :(...) so I am by no means the authority on the subject!

In any case, if you like the list building idea then let me know, and also please feel free to let me know if you'd like me to do videos for other points values, comp systems etc.

05-06-2011, 15:16
Added a random 2000pt pick-up game that I played at my local GW recently.

Might be the last video for a couple of weeks, I'll try and put some painting progress up after my exams.

05-06-2011, 20:05
Quick question... watching your latest videos, why are your Harpies deployed and played as Skirmishers? [eg. they are spaced half an inch apart]

05-06-2011, 21:19
Aww dwarf gun lines are kinda dull.
8th gave dwarves the chance to offensive ( and run down elves tehehehe!, I also have seen dwarves make 11 inch charges) and with such elite infantry it seems like the organ guns are a waste when one can take more BA troopers.

Good form on not taking mindrazer.

05-06-2011, 21:44
Quick question... watching your latest videos, why are your Harpies deployed and played as Skirmishers? [eg. they are spaced half an inch apart]

I'm not entirely sure I follow... how else would you play them?

They have the skirmisher special rule, which you may have missed?

07-06-2011, 07:45

Here are three images ive just made...

DE Army Book Page 55

DE Army Book Page 95 [removed points cost for warseer rules]

DE FAQ 1.3 Page 2

I do not see where Skirmisher is mentioned?


10 Minutes Later EDIT : I am wrong, It was "hidden(?)" in the Warhammer 8th Edition Rulebook Page 70 oops! :)


"In addition, because of their loose fighting style, flying units consisting of more than one model have the Skirmishers special rule (see page 77)."

However... that has just MADE my day! Because i was playing them in a highly restrictive, ranked up 5x1, non-skirmisher formation, where i couldn't free reform and had to wheel as part of my fly move!

07-06-2011, 15:20
Lol, these things happen.

For about 6 months I was convinced my Cauldron was a large target...

07-06-2011, 15:55
You had me confused there for a second! I thought that my Harpies couldn't skirmish and I have been playing the game wrong the whole time.

In the BRB (pg. 70), flying units of more than one model have the skirmisher special rule. So they are de facto skirmishers. They continue to be useful.

edit: I see you corrected it above. Sorry.

09-06-2011, 03:20
Good battle reports. Right up until Tempest: Ragnarok.

What a stupid tournament of non-Warhammer.

"We changed everything and are forcing you to take a silly army, but we still get to call it Warhammer for some reason."

Literally nothing to be learned from that tournament.

09-06-2011, 14:45
Actually, I think their change to the magic comp is the best solution I've come across yet.

That, and it was actually the most fun I've had at a tournament for a long time.

09-06-2011, 16:18
I agree- their magic comp is pretty good- I actually agree with all of their comp restrictions with the exception that 40 is too small to limit unit sizes- 50 I think is better, and gives some units a fighting chance against certain elite units-

09-06-2011, 16:27
As an avid Tomb Kings player, I would hate to try and play an infantry based Tomb Kings list with those rules.

40 Undead Infantry? Can disappear in a single combat phase.
Special characters that provide abilities and items that change how the army plays? Gone.
Archers? Models with shooting weapons.
Magic? Out the door.
Scroll of Mighty Incantations? Pretty much unusable - (probably banned like Power Scroll).
Khanopi? Pretty much unusable.
Heirotitan? Probably banned for providing extra dice.

So, their ranked units are disassembled by light breezes, their shooting options are castrated by having to take a bunch of non-shooters, they become much less likely to be able to magically move to compensate for their lack of marching, and 2 out of their 8 magic items are pretty much useless.

It's the perfect system! As long as you have multiple attack elite infantry that don't crumble from combat resolution!

I'd rather play Warhammer, thank you very much.

09-06-2011, 17:15
I'll try and get hold of the top Tomb Kings player's list for you, Singe Frost took that away and I believe finished somewhere in the top 10

09-06-2011, 18:21
His list is covered in the newest Bad Dice podcast.

11-06-2011, 17:56
Singe finished 38th in battle points.

The other Tomb Kings players finished 57, 58 and 84 (dead last).

The only reason Singe made it into the top 10 is the weird rules.

Tomb Kings did beyond **** poor on the table under those rules.

11-06-2011, 18:11
They're not alone in that respect- Dark Elves also did pretty poorly, Ben Curry aside.

Also, the chap who came last was actually using the 7th edition Tomb Kings rules- he didn't get the memo that the 8th edition book was going to be allowed, as Bobo only decided on that a week or so in advance.

12-06-2011, 07:08
I have to back up EDMM in that universally hard-capping unit sizes favors certain armies over others to an almost absurd degree. I think all you really need to to is observe that it hurts Lizardmen, WoC, HE, DE, and VC not at all (even in the case of great weapon Marauders, 40 is sufficient), yet is very punishing to O&G or TK, to see how messed up it is. It *may* be okay when an army that is hurt badly by it happens to be very powerful otherwise, as in the case of Skaven--and even then I find it pretty harsh--but when it's an army that relies on large units of weak-ish models, yet was perhaps slightly underpowered without the comp, well ... there are bound to be big problems.

And anyway the only really abusive stuff involves units of like 100+ models, IMO. Less than that should be able to be dealt with, or else the entirety of the rest of the army should be able to be mopped up because half the points are invested in that one unit, and everything else is gimpy as a result. In what universe is a unit of 50 Clanrats or Night Goblins a problem to balance or, for that matter, a barrier to fun games? And who really takes units of 50+ elite infantry in a competitive list even when they can? I've seen it, but it's a risky move and I don't think it's a risk that the best players are likely to bother taking, or that results in consistent wins.

For example, if I'm playing VC, I can take 50+ great weapon Grave Guard, Banner of the Barrows, and a BSB with Drakenhof Banner, and that is one of the more effective (and blatantly cheesy) ways to take advantage of elite units of unlimited size. However, it really doesn't make for the best army I could bring to a tourney, because in practice it precludes taking an effective unit of Wraiths, any Varghulfs, or Blood Knights, as well as loading up on characters with MotBA. Having several of those things in addition to 30 Grave Guard is, IMO, a lot more powerful than having 50+ GG, some Ghouls, a general, the aforementioned BSB, and nothing else worth mentioning. An army consisting of three blocks, one of which is a massive deathstar and two of which are moderately-killy Core, is just not a very strong army in my opinion. At least, it's unlikely to win tournaments. It can certainly steamroll newer players, but even those new players are probably capable of Power-Scrolling a fat Purple Sun to your face, which you'd deserve for taking such an amazingly dull list anyway :).

So, yeah, I really think there is no call for capping units at 40, and that it probably isn't even necessary to cap them at all. It really does seem like some people just want to play 7th Ed. again very badly, or are having trouble adjusting to 8th and thus see anything which is good in 8th, but wouldn't be done in 7th, as overpowered or broken.

This isn't to completely denigrate that comp; I agree that the magic changes were interesting and didn't seem to favor any particular army too much. But the army-specific stuff and the unit size cap are whack, I tells ya. It looks like it could be a fun tourney to play in, but from an outside view it is slightly frustrating to see that triple-Doombull **** being enabled, and several other such things.

As a caveat I should note that I'm an American and have never played under ETC comp (not to say that Americans never use it, but I'm sure it is less common here); European players are probably far more used to strict comp than I, and I'm sure don't tend to make a big deal of it. But of course to me some of these restrictions seem utterly outlandish and so game-changing that, as EDMM says, one could barely call it Warhammer.

12-06-2011, 09:10
Triple Doombull was definitely something that slipped under the radar, so was the double Cauldron...

15-06-2011, 17:33
Updated with the first in my Hobby Update series

20-06-2011, 01:16
Hobby update no 2 is up!

Also, a 3 part game vs a Teclis list with Life magic :o

20-06-2011, 02:12
Teclis with life? don't they know that Teclis with shadow is better- Life Teclis to me seems manageable, but shadow is purely devastating- but then again most of my armies have low initiatives, and high natural strength values-

Not to mention T7 (flesh to stone) does nothing to stop Str 9 or 10 (from mindrazor)- Anyway looking forward to watching this one-

Plus, Teclis already ignores miscasts- so he loses one of the main benefits of Throne of Vines-

20-06-2011, 02:16
Against my list, I'm actually far far more scared of High Magic- it turns Chuck into nothing...

20-06-2011, 04:27
It's true, flames of the pheonix, and curse of arrow attraction are both banes of low toughness armies-

I've also forgotten about the FAQ involving characters staying in the front- it actually makes Teclis much more manageable now that it is harder to hide him in the second rank-

Nice report-

20-06-2011, 04:35
Vaul's unmaking more than anything else...

Thank you :)

I think, after I've exhausted all the tournaments at which I can use Chuck this year, I'll do a video tutorial on how to play against him- there were several things Mat could've done to keep Teclis safe in that game without changing his lore or army selection.

Don'twant to do it until I've finished using him however...

20-06-2011, 16:15
That last game was a good one, although I have to admit the fluffy gamer in me cried a bit when the "majority" of your forces turned and ran after getting Chuck and the Hydra into their appointed combats.

21-06-2011, 05:55
That last game was a good one, although I have to admit the fluffy gamer in me cried a bit when the "majority" of your forces turned and ran after getting Chuck and the Hydra into their appointed combats.

Tom should have entitled this report "Chuck Norris versus Magical Elf Jesus".

Chuck is mean, though. I'm not sure why the HE player didn't run Teclis out of that Seaguard unit before Chuck hit it. There weren't any war machines to drop rocks on his head or anything, I think the Shades were too far away to shoot at him if he ran back towards his own board edge, and he had the smaller Seaguard unit to enter a turn later. I don't know if that would have worked against a flying Chuck, honestly, since he's sure to just chase Teclis around, but it would have at least freed up that gigantic Seaguard unit to actually fight things.

He also (no offense to him) seemed to handle power dice economy very poorly. There is no good reason for Teclis to have unproductive magic phases against anyone, much less DE, who don't exactly have a ton of defensive bonuses.

21-06-2011, 15:59
I think he just didn't think of moving Teclis out of the unit, and even then the 34" effective range on the Shades makes that risky.

However, I'm putting together an episode where I'll go over some of the ways to stop Chuck being so effective without having to change your list etc.

It will, however, probably come out the day after the UK Throne of Skulls...

21-06-2011, 19:31
I think he just didn't think of moving Teclis out of the unit, and even then the 34" effective range on the Shades makes that risky.

However, I'm putting together an episode where I'll go over some of the ways to stop Chuck being so effective without having to change your list etc.

It will, however, probably come out the day after the UK Throne of Skulls...

That'd be nice to hear actually. I've never played against a Chuck clone, but I do have a semi-regular Dark Elf opponent. I don't plan to tell him about this build and don't believe he's aware that it is actually a viable thing one can do--though he certainly knows Pendant is good--but he'll probably end up hearing about it from someone eventually, so it's only a matter of time before I have to deal with it, and I honestly do not really have good solutions in mind except taking a magic lore that kills him easily (Death or Metal, pretty much, neither of which look attractive to me for an all-comers list).

22-06-2011, 02:53
I've only faced "chuck" once, and luckily when I hit him with a cannonball (I had no idea the pendant of cheese existed) he rolled a 1 and I followed this up by a 4 on the number of wounds- so he can die but it is rare-

22-06-2011, 04:05
If he rolled a 1 he made the save :D

Must've been a 6...

22-06-2011, 05:13
Well, either way- the only reason I remember it is because everyone who understood how the pendant works was snickering, and waiting for me to be shocked when the dark elf lord did not die-

Of course as I crunch the numbers, it comes down to a little better than 10% chance of killing him with a cannonball- there probably isn't much better, other than a ton of Str 4 armor piercing, or magic sniping spells- but if I had to do it over again I would have used my cannon to finish off the hydra instead-

22-06-2011, 06:45
Ahh... I've had that sort of experience back when I started using Dark Elves. I fired the breath weapon at some dragon princes, and couldn't work out why everyone was chuckling...

Not a mistake you make twice :/

23-06-2011, 17:54
So any executioners in the future? Or waiting for plastic versions ?
Personally i would convert warriors into executioners.

23-06-2011, 18:40
I was actually looking at using the Dark Eldar Wracks as Executioners, but if I do do any I'll probably just use my IoB Swordmasters.

23-06-2011, 19:36
Ya those wracks do look pretty BA- but the jester looks like he has a great weapon. Would you convert the swordmasters weapons ( give them chaos warrior swords instead perhaps?) or leave as is?

24-06-2011, 01:44
I'd just leave them as they are, I suck enough at painting without trying to convert stuff!

24-06-2011, 05:58
Nah it is easy- a razer snip to take off those high elf prisy swords and snip the hilts from whatever swords you want to use. Then glue on the new blades.
I saw bluetablepainting make glade riders into wild riders by snipping off the bows and glueing on spears or swords. I am all for that and plan to do the same so that I do not have buy pricy pewter or resin.

04-07-2011, 02:40
DId Hyrdas go up in price???

13-07-2011, 19:55
Updates at long last!

A 3 game one day friendly tournament, with a preview and summary featuring special guest Comrade Igor*!

Also, a 2400pt game against Comrade Igor*. Enjoy!

14-07-2011, 03:55
Always good to see high elves loose.

15-07-2011, 08:59
Apologies about the Shield. Wasn't aware it had to be revealed, but something to remember. At any rate thank you for the great game. As far as the plagueclaw catapult goes, had it affected the outcome i'd have given it to you.

19-07-2011, 13:33
Just want to quickly add that I've really enjoyed your videos, especially the list building and thought processes that go into them! I've spammed them to my local DE players and they've improved their games as a result!

19-07-2011, 13:41
Thanks mate :D

One day, Chuck's spawn will rule the world...

28-07-2011, 20:24
Updated with another game

03-08-2011, 13:21
Updated with the Midlands Open 2011 Tournament.

03-08-2011, 21:29
Thanks for the Midland games sir. They all seemed pretty well fought, and they all made me think or rethink elements of my own game. As a great man once said: "Groovy".

04-08-2011, 06:13
Good effort against pretty bad match ups.

09-08-2011, 00:01
Beginning the run up to Cardiff Carnage with my list overview...

Thanks again to everyone who has spread the word and got me enough support for the longer videos- it saves me at least an hour per game being able to upload it all at once without having to break it into 15 minute chunks and render them individually.

09-08-2011, 03:37
No manticore riders? =)

09-08-2011, 15:15
I'm still toying with the idea of taking 2 to Giant Fanatic if I can afford to go...

11-08-2011, 19:52
So like- where are your handlers for your hyrda? You said the next tourny one gets conversion points-perhaps some converted handlers are in order if you do not have any Now?

11-08-2011, 20:04
I do have handlers, I've just not actually used them seeing as they now can't die until the hydra dies, and have no effect on the game. They've basically doubled as whichever models I've needed more of for a while.

Also, played my first Cardiff Carnage practice game vs VC- won't be casting it as nothing really special happened, just a simple 1-2-3 Witches and Corsairs removing units through volume of attacks.

20-08-2011, 21:58
Updated with a painting update on my Dark Elves, as well as some more Cardiff Carnage news.

21-08-2011, 04:36
"bastard creatures" you make me snicker

but on the plus side, no 13th to glass your troopers easily. Just means you will have to watch out for plaague.

21-08-2011, 05:57
I have an immense dislike for Skaven, it's almost as bad as my irrational hatred of wasps.

29-08-2011, 20:11
Updated with Cardiff Carnage games and summary!

30-08-2011, 03:30
I think splitting the witches will invite people to get some easy vps.
Why not go with a lord Mage of fire or metal? The lvl 1 did pretty well for herself, just think what blackguard can do with flaming sword ?

31-08-2011, 00:21
Really liked the Cardiff games. I think the different points level and comp made for varied games and lists and must say that I liked your gaming without the shadow crutch better. Some very interesting manouvering and decision processes there.

Finally, I find your painting quite good. Not GD level or anything, but very good tabletop painting. Having a whole army on that level is an achievement too and you´re rightfully proud of it.


31-08-2011, 11:28
Cheers mate, thanks for the kinds words :)

07-09-2011, 09:31
Updated with Tempest 4: Redemption

07-09-2011, 16:39
Glad to hear that you are finally going to dump shadow for a different lore. Final transmutation could have glassed the gutstar. Searing doom could have wrecked those knights. Sadly it would have done didly to the daemons, save the 6th spell.

Next tourny try not to think about your placing midgame-brings about bad luck.

09-09-2011, 12:06
Thanks again for the reports, they are really great. Your army looks fantastic, for what it is worth. It may not be the best technically painted (you seem to agree, and I couldn't do much better) but damn the colours look great.

It is a shame that this Tempest seemed to be a bitter experience for you. It really shone through in the reports, unfortunately.

You really should experiment wildly. Do things that no body expects from the Druchii. I am not a Druchii player but I've always wondered why handbow-corsairs are never seen (I understand why they aren't the optimal option but I can't recall ever seeing them) so trying them out would be fun. The best way to win is with what people don't expect or don't rate. I'd much rather place averagely with (supposedly) sub-optimal lists than place above averagely with predictable stuff anyway. Give it a go!

10-09-2011, 01:28
Updated with 2 tournament previews. 2! Consider it me reaching out through the internet and giving you a hug.

Lord Dan
10-09-2011, 01:39
I've gone through all of your reports in the last month or so, and I must say by the end of it I felt like we were friends that went way back. I found myself able to determine how you would respond to certain situations, I know which scenarios you hate, I know which armies you prefer facing, I got angry when you got angry (I wanted to beat up that Orc player)- all in all a very bizarre experience.

That aside keep them coming!

10-09-2011, 03:48
Will do, cheers mate!

12-09-2011, 22:42
Updated with Impfest V

13-09-2011, 04:55
You should start mounting high elf heads on your BSBs standard

Dirty Mac
15-09-2011, 13:44
That first HE player, you needed to take him aside and have a "chat" with him.

20-09-2011, 21:55
Updates, updates gotta get down on... update day...

Walords GT 2011. Watch the games. Watch them now!

Lord Dan
20-09-2011, 22:20
Do you have to travel a lot for all these tournaments, or are there just a ton of them in the UK? Also what is the ranking system you've mentioned a few times, and who manages it?

You know your dice rolling can be bad from time to time, but having just watched a whole swathe of your videos I feel like a bigger problem is the fact the you play a bunch of cheating douches. Going forward I wouldn't trust anyone in a tournament, as it seems like at least one game per event you play someone who shafts you.

Not a huge fan of cursing, but I laughed out loud when you were talking about the HE "cloak of **** you."

Looking forward to listening to the GT.

20-09-2011, 22:23
There's a lot of travelling involved, my latest one was about 4.5 hours in the car. All the rankings are run by Rankings HQ, they run them for just about every country that has competitive Warhammer, and do the same for 40K, War Machine, Flames of War etc. Here's a link to my profile so you can see how it's all set up:


Lord Dan
20-09-2011, 23:07
Thanks man, I never knew about that site. I found a few old gaming buddies that I haven't heard from in years (one is in the fantasy top 15 for the US!), so that was really cool.

20-09-2011, 23:27
Man you need some yoga in your life to help chill after losing to master Race (I could be bias.)
grats on the victories. Personaly I would not pick up warriors as they are rather limited on any army variety other than cool char builds/models & Koleck Suneater. I would bring the suneater just so I could make people pee themselves.

Lord Dan
21-09-2011, 13:59
Good stuff, just listened through the GT reports. I have to say I like the newer format a lot- a summary with the best painted minis, no dice rage, comp information, lots of pictures, etc. Keep it up!

I was a bit disappointed you told that guy he didn't deserve to win. You addressed that you sort of regretted it in the summary at the end, but I felt like it was totally out of character for you (I actually had to listen to it twice, because I wasn't clear on why you told him at first). All in all that sounded like a bummer of a game, and I had a good chuckle out of the 3 minute Bretonnian report. I also thought it was ungentlemanly to move your line back in that Chaos game, but I understand it's a tournament and you need to do what you can to win.

All of that aside those Dwarf gunlines are ridiculously stupid to play against, the Empire game looked like a blast, your army is looking great, and I'm thoroughly enjoying the reports. I also found your commentary at the end on the organization of the tournament quite informative, so I hope you'll continue with it. Keep them coming.

21-09-2011, 14:59
Cheers mate, next event will the Throne of Skulls, I've managed to get a ticket so it'll be uncomped filth.

Bring it!

21-09-2011, 15:23
Nice reports tom

21-09-2011, 19:02
Great Reports keep em commin

21-09-2011, 19:37
Thanks gents :)

22-09-2011, 10:37
Hi Tom

I'm new to DE's and am loving your vids, they're giving loads of ideas, but I have a question. Why don't you (or anyone that I can tell) use the dark magic from the DE book.

From what I can see, it looks good especially with the spell that hits everyone in the target unit especially as folks runs quite big hordes etc.

Shadow magic I agree with you is a bit boring and I like the idea of a Mage getting several magic missiles and a hurt every model in the unit spell. So why do people never use it?

22-09-2011, 14:02
Hi mate, thanks for the kind words :)

From what I can see, Dark magic has 2 main drawbacks- first up, it is very short ranged. A maximum range of 24", and 12" on Soul Stealer, means that your mage has to either be fairly close to use it or you have to have the Focus Familiar (which in turn means no Stabby Dagger).

The other issue is that it doesn't do a lot against the main weaknesses of the Dark Elf army- namely, high toughness and Strength. Dark is great for removing swathes of low toughness or armour troops, but a lot of the time if you want a damaging spellcaster the Fire level 1 will give you a similar amount of mileage for a handful of points.

Dark also just doesn't complement the army as well as Shadow.

That being said, I'm currently working on a very defensive list for an upcoming event where the organiser has basically decided to only comp DE, and to overcomp them at that. Main idea is to sit back with a pair of Fire level 1s for some long range zaps, and then when they close use Dark Magic to really put the hurt on before counter-attacking anything that's left with Black Guard.

07-10-2011, 03:25
Throne of Skulls preview added, games yet to be played!

10-10-2011, 19:05
Updated with all my games from the Autumn Throne of Skulls

Lord Dan
10-10-2011, 20:48
Woot! I know what I'm doing when I get home tonight!

10-10-2011, 22:55
Woot! I know what I'm doing when I get home tonight!

Making pie? Cos if you are, I want some...

11-10-2011, 01:05
i've only watched the first ToS game so far, great report! can't wait to see the rest of the games.

11-10-2011, 06:32
Man- uncomp warhammer is evil-!
I hope next tourny your lvl 4 will stay away from skillzrazer.
How lucky you were to face no skaven!
Who would fear you if you rocked some death magic.

11-10-2011, 11:59
awesome games Tom, maybe you should start taking a flask to tourneys to keep your nerves calm ;) the watchtower vs dwarfs was awesome, it was kind of funny to hear your rants as he was taking away all of your toys :) good games as usual, looking forward to the next batch.

Lord Dan
11-10-2011, 12:21
I've watched the Ogre and first Dwarf games so far. Good stuff! Mindrazor for the win, man! I thought he had you in that first game for sure, so it goes to show you that you should never concede a game when you've still got a spell as powerful as mindrazor up your sleeve. I'm glad you called that Dwarf player out on some of the rules he missed (I was thinking of some of those previous games you mentioned...) because you would have been pissed if you got home and found out he was wrong. Good stuff so far. I'm looking forward to parts 3-5.

12-10-2011, 05:45
In the last fight you complain about the tzeentch list being the epitome of everything wrong with 8th, but I'll bet that your first two opponents that had you until you mindrazor'd your way out felt much the same about your list.

I also noticed that your "cut throat, super dirty, compless" Dark Elves wasn't much different from your normal list. That's an interesting observation.

Don't let the above make you think that I don't enjoy the videos - I do!

Lord Dan
12-10-2011, 12:34
In the last fight you complain about the tzeentch list being the epitome of everything wrong with 8th, but I'll bet that your first two opponents that had you until you mindrazor'd your way out felt much the same about your list.

I also noticed that your "cut throat, super dirty, compless" Dark Elves wasn't much different from your normal list. That's an interesting observation.

Don't let the above make you think that I don't enjoy the videos - I do!


"You're a hypocrite.

You're a hypocrite.

Love ya!"


EDIT: I'm sure Tom will respond to this as well, however let me point out two things:

1) The definition of "what's wrong with Warhammer" is totally subjective. In the first two games he got off a spell that obviously turned the tide of the game. You see this as a problem with 8th, conversely I think it adds to the explosive randomness and allows underdogs to sway games in their favor. To me, this is part of the fun. To you, it's "what's wrong with Warhammer". To Tom, being able to take lists akin to some of the 7th edition nightmares is what's wrong with Warhammer. To others, this is why they enjoy the game. Again, it's all subjective, so I resent the idea that Tom is in any way to blame for their opponents feeling cheated in the first two games.

Subjectivity aside I think any feelings of ire towards the great mindrazor comebacks on the part of his opponents of the first two games is less because they were "what's wrong with 8th", and more because his opponents were losing. They would have felt cheated if they failed every leadership test in the army, or if all of their cannons started blowing up, or if they failed every charge they declared. It's all in the dice, which could have just as easily swayed in their favor. Uncomped list-building, on the other hand, is more of a static concept that I feel has more to do with an edition's broken-ness than anything else.

2) His list has a single cauldron of blood, no black guard spam, a single hydra, no shade deathstar, a single level 4, no assassin front ranks- nada. He can call it whatever he likes, but overall he has a strong tournament list that I think no-one would have a problem playing against. If you have a problem with a particular part of the list it would be far more constructive to address those points than to try to have us draw inferences from Tom's statements.

12-10-2011, 14:08
While not necessarily agreeing with Djekar, I do also find it amusing that tom complains about anything while fielding mind razor dark elves. don't take it the wrong way tom, I love your reports and have learned a lot from you. It is nice to have both oncebitten's generally softer reports and your tournament games, great job!

12-10-2011, 15:02
Fair points being made above, my list is certainly abusive (Mindrazor, Stubborn Pendant DreadPeg, 20 shades) but it does have some weakness that I had to accept going into the event- that being said, they're few and far between and not easy to exploit- certainly, the Ogre game was the only one (that I won) where I was really worried for any period of time with regards to what my opponent was doing.

Another thing vs my list is that it's very standard fare. There were a few armies with 2 hydras (including a double hydra dragon army), but overall, my list was everything you'd expect to see in an uncomped environment, which every one of my opponents knew we'd be playing in. I built my list to take advantage of that, but also to maximise the chances of it doing well (5 chaff deployments before I have to commit anything for example). In a tournament, list building is an important part of the event, and in at least 2 situations (no dispel scroll, too many war machines) my opponent put themselves at a disadvantage. Another example- had Jack had 3 single Sabretusks, or even some units of 10 Goblares, I would've been forced to waste shooting on them or else be unable to charge what I wanted and when. A combat list that can't control the combats it fight is, in my opinion, heavily flawed.

I didn't mean so much that the Horror list was all that is wrong with the game, but more that game in particular- he got a giant unkillable unit into a building where I couldn't dislodge it or even get any points out of it due to the building rules and did nothing other than cast magic at me all game, while flying around a monster that I couldn't pin down. His turn was literally move the flamers and the Chicken, then magic me for 10-15 minutes with a magic phase of usually 12 dice (7 Channels and +2 power dice and some decent Winds rolling) and then shoot with the flamers, with a couple of combats thrown in. In any situation other than him getting the Horrors into the building, I firmly believe I would've likely tabled him, with the exception of perhaps getting the chicken (the Witches would've ground the Horrors out, and most likely killed all 3 Heralds in the first round), and as a result won not only the game but I would've got the highest overall score at Throne of Skulls and taken top Dark Elf (assuming that I would've still got the third Best Sports from that game, I might've got 4 or more but I really don't know).

As abusive as my list is, it's still not that bad- I have to make sure to draw out the dispel scroll, I have to control the match-ups and I have to make sure that on the turn I commit, if I fluff the magic rolling, I can still come back into that game.

I took my usual light comp list to a no-comp event for a few reasons- the first is that as an army, I am exceptionally happy with it. In all honesty, I almost think the list would be better if I had the Black Guard and Witch darts instead of the DreadPeg, but over the weekend nobody seemed to have an answer to him which I found surprising, considering that I spent several hours working through theoretical solution on how to kill him (for example, Corsairs with Killing Blow will kill him in a round regardless of whether he charged them last turn and took their frenzy off or they charged him, and Killing Blow on the hydra kills him 3/4 times or so).

I've also played that list to death, other than the Ogre list I knew pretty much how each unit to unit match-up I played would go, and I think I benefitted from taking a list that I've played to death and know back to front instead of trying to filth it up further.

I am, however, very glad I didn't take 2 hydras- I said beforehand, and still maintain now, that 2 would be a liability. Looking over the games, the only game it killed anything was the Ogre game and the Daemons game (where it killed a unit of Ironguts and some small Horror units). In every other game, it died before causing a single wound. Doesn't mean they're not good, they're still frighteningly undercosted and I'll continue to take one when I can, but in an uncomped environment, I think I would've done better with another 10 shades to be perfectly honest.

The Mindrazor "trick" is certainly an issue, and I know that Jack, Tyrann and Andy were all a bit gutted after the game, they didn't really lose to me but instead to quite often a double 6 on 8+ dice. However, there are a few things that need to be acknowledged in return.

1. Jack not having a dispel scroll cost him that game, quite simply. Had he had a dispel scroll, I would've lost, there's no 2 ways about it. A huge mistake in my opinion.

2. Tyrann's army was pretty badly selected, it was too small and had too many war machines. Those miners needed to be deployed normally to give him 2 points of confrontation, as it was that one unit of warriors (while nasty) ended up fighting 2 of my units at once. Sure he won that combat, but because I made sure the Witches were in Stubborn range of the Cauldron, it meant he was only able to get 25 VPs out of that combat win- and in a situation where you win combat vs the 2 main units in a Dark Elf combat you need to destroy at least one of them. He should've been shooting the Cauldron from turn 1 with everything, and used the gyros to slow the hydra down.

3. Andy burnt his dispel scroll far too early. I've said a few times (and especially in the magic tactics video I did) that before you use the scroll you have to look further ahead, and I think if you asked someone which they would prefer to lose in a vaccuum, 30 ghouls would more often than not be wanted more than 4 wraiths. He also stood back far too much, so on the turn I committed, I was able to pick and choose where I wanted to go- again, this is a luxury you simply cannot afford a Mindrazor list.

With regards to the games I lost:

1. Game 3... this was heartbreaking really. I suppose you could call karma, but it's very annoying to have my opponent make a huge mistake at the start of the game that should by all rights cost him the game, but then get back into it through 2 freak dice rolls (the Dreadlord and the Cauldron). The Dreadlord surviving would've stopped him getting near the building, and even had the Dreadlord died, if the Cauldron had survived it would've given the Corsairs Killing Blow each round, making them an entirely different prospect for Dwarfs to face (going vaguely off what I remember, I would've been killing an extra 2-3 each round- put that into 4 rounds of combat and suddenly I'm winning combat and there aren't many Ironbreakers left). But, these things happen, and I can at least take some consolation in knowing that I didn't do much wrong that game.

2. Game 5- I've already been over above, but it is always worth mentioning that I think that was the worst I played all event, partly because I was tired and secondly because my head went down after he put 50 Horrors into a building. In hindsight, better positioning of the Dreadlord on my first turn would've won me the game, so at least I learned something from the loss.

Hope this has been enlightening, perhaps in the future I should do some more detailed feedback on each game in the summary video? One to be aware of, which I will make no bones about, is that while I acknowledge my list was filth and I relied heavily on Mindrazor to pull me out of bad situations, I'm not apologising for it because it's all part of the game, for better or for worse. Throne of Skulls does, however, reinforce my opinion that Warhammer is still not suitable for competitive gaming without comp. Don't get me wrong, it's a great fun game to play, but it's not competitive straight out of the box because there are just too many silly elements (11 dice Mindrazor anyone?).

Also- I love complaining :)

13-10-2011, 02:42
In the last fight you complain about the tzeentch list being the epitome of everything wrong with 8th, but I'll bet that your first two opponents that had you until you mindrazor'd your way out felt much the same about your list.

I also noticed that your "cut throat, super dirty, compless" Dark Elves wasn't much different from your normal list. That's an interesting observation.

Don't let the above make you think that I don't enjoy the videos - I do!

Good call sir - but in ETC comped games no dreadlord with crown of stubborn/Pegasus
The ogre player should have had a scroll in an uncomp tourny...

The daemon player...cheese oozing cheeze when daemons use life magic. Dunno the range of flickering fire but maybe Tom should have deployed far far away from the building.

In any event I hope that Tom tries a different lore with the ole lvl4.

13-10-2011, 02:48
Metal is up next for Tribute, Final Transutation is in fact often better than Dwellers once the stupid character sniping gets taken out :)

13-10-2011, 05:50
@ Tom:
Hey man, everyone has the right to complain. You sounded really angry not at the game itself, but at the player - something that either you miscommunicated (possible) or I misunderstood (more probable) and that is what my comment was directed at. An attempt to give perspective on what it feels like to lose by magic - which was unnecessary since that is admittedly not what you were frustrated about.

My comment about your filthy, nasty, dirty list being very similar to your normal list was really just a thought forming about the comp that you normally are subject to. I mean, if your nastiest list bears a striking similarity to a list that is admissible under (sometimes severe) comp, I think that's a problem with the comp or the army book - and I'm not sure that I'll land on the side of the army book being unbalanced.

I cannot find fault in your post game evaluations - in fact, it is making me rethink my use (or disuse lately) of the dispel scroll. Thanks for taking the time to reply sir.

As elucidated above, my statements were not intended as a "you're a hypocrite" to Tom (far from it!). Sorry if I caused any confusion.

25-10-2011, 16:54
Hey Tom,I've been meaning to pop a message to you for a while,well I worked out the final standings for the throne of skulls and I finished in 114th place,which I thought was quiet a reasonable place seeing as it was only my second ever tourney.
I also got your final standing place and out of 155 people you finished 13th so if you would of got a draw in the game you list not only would you have got best dark elf but you would of come 4th overall.
I'm thinking of doing a couple of tourney at maelstrom games in the new year,hopefully I'll do better then lol :)

28-10-2011, 15:09
Hi Kieran, was great to meet you over the weekend. Well done on the final placing, at such a big event that was a pretty good result! What you need to do now is take a note out of my book and max out on soft scores :)

Either that, or more shades! In the car on the way back from Throne I gave some though to what my hydra has done over the last few months and to be honest, the only real theme is that it either hides in the corner or dies... so out it goes, and in comes the third unit of shades to get me up to 30 :) I'll be rocking out a pretty filthy list at Winter Incursion next month, so hopefully my 30 girls will work well for me :)

30-10-2011, 15:25

30-10-2011, 18:35
where? the last ones listed on the first page are throne of skulls which was a while ago?

30-10-2011, 18:49

Actually really updated this time, promise...

30-10-2011, 19:06
So do you ever role for spells with your fire mage just for the freak chance of getting flamin sword-?

30-10-2011, 19:09
If I'm against VC then yeah, so that I have something to hurt the Coach with once it goes ethereal. That's about it really :)

30-10-2011, 19:15
But on the knights+charge+extra attacks= a lot of auto wounds?
Exicted for Metal-! Albeit as a skaven player I really do fear Death...

In any event good luck sir-!

30-10-2011, 19:17
Good point well made, I'll have to look into it.

Thanks :)

04-11-2011, 13:53
So after watching some Ogre reports-i am terrified of multiple Ironblasters- which is bad for you ETC folk cause the new rules pack has not come out yet correct?
Any plans of defense other than thin ranks ( flank shots would ruin your day sir )-?

06-11-2011, 22:35
I think they will likely be made 0-1, but until then it's just another reason not to take a hydra- as if I didn't already have multiple reasons... bring on the third shade unit!

10-11-2011, 02:35
So in the 1st dwarf game- why did the cold one knights not try tO get into the battle after the organ gun and crossbowmen went (rather foolishly) shade hunting ?

10-11-2011, 02:52
I felt that if I tried to turn the knights around, the Organ Gun would still have had 2 turns to shoot them- not rolling to hit meant that I couldn't hug the terrain and would probably have just given him some points.

That knight unit was pointless though, I was trying to be too clever when I first wrote the list I think. It was also a bit disconcerting when I abandoned the list and came back to it a week or so later and thought to myself... what the actual ******* was I thinking?

Whereas the more I look at my 30 shade and double level 4 list, the more I like it :)

10-11-2011, 13:38
So I agree with you that the hydra is far too easy to kill, ( my reg oppenent Djekar ninja snipes my doomwheels easily every game just about) but what i realy noticed was how useful double cauldrons would be. Ergo giving you more options & if things go south you will always be able to give killing blow to the corsairs to ensure they never in a position to be useless

Hope you give metal another try or death

10-11-2011, 21:58
Metal with double Cauldron and double BG is something I'd be very tempted to try out...

11-11-2011, 06:10
Metal with double Cauldron and double BG is something I'd be very tempted to try out...

*shudder* I felt a great disturbance in the force - as if a thousand tiny plastic miniatures cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Thanks for putting the tourney up man, I'm sorry to hear that you didn't do as well as you had hoped, but you put in a good showing.

About O&G being a bad match up for you, I agree - lots of T4 troops with plenty of their own chaff and warmachines. Also, your breps convinced me to start running manglers (even though you kill them with those poor, poor harpies) and I've been having great fun and success with them. And now your last game vs. Orcs makes me want to find a place for single trolls again. That troll was a champ! I'm really surprised that the Doom Divers didn't shoot at shades, rather than your blocks - but I suppose that's a matter of taste, and since I listen to you rave about them, I may have overreacted and got rid of them quickly.

11-11-2011, 13:07
Thanks :)

Don't think of it like harpies killing Manglers, think of it like Manglers killing harpies- without the harpies, I have to start using Witch darts to redirect the Savage bus, in which case I'm not using them to snipe characters, or shade units- which are expensive. Also, if I don't harpy the Manglers, I have to throw loads of shooting into them or else my blocks get ruined :(

11-11-2011, 14:26
Updates updates updates!

18-11-2011, 07:26
Got to say - I love the reports. They're clear, informative, and enjoyable to watch.

As a long time O&G player, Elves are one of the armies I love to fight, mainly for the reasons you've mentioned:

Orc Elite units like Savage Orc Big Uns, Black Orcs and Troll Hordes can do decent damage to DE battle lines, and are very resistant to repeater bow fire. The size of these units, plus the Choppa rule means that despite how many DE/HE will kill first,the resulting counter attack will gut the Elf unit
Chaff units like Manglers, Pump Wagons and Chariots can do massive damage to Elf units unless diverted or pinned.
Orc and Goblin magic while not as super-powered as some of the BRB lores (read Shadow) has the potential to be match winning. Add that in to the fact that you can pick up a level 4 wizard for less than 200 points, and how good a Doom Diver is against Elves and the match up is not favorable, providing the O&G player metagames.

Just out of interest, have you had muh success against O&G "hard" lists?

18-11-2011, 14:35
A bit, but it's probably one of my worst match-ups, partly because I only run into good O&G players at tournaments. It definitely needs work, at the moment my current gamelan is to kill the chaff and then try to pull the Savage bus out of position so I can flank it, or find a way to engage it in the second round so the Choppa bonus is gone.

From and O&G perspective, what can DE do that worries you (both list and gameplay wise)?

18-11-2011, 17:44
For me it's the hydra, the cauldron and the magic.

The Hydra: we can only get flaming attacks from the BRB banner, and that can only go on a few units. It's really pretty easy to discern where the flaming banner is in an O&G list - hint, it usually rhymes with Tack Dorks. Without flaming attacks the hydra can really stomp holes in even our elite troops, easily killing enough to make it worth it's points. Of course, buffed with magic or a cauldron it becomes even worse. Note that I'm not saying that a hydra wins games on it's own but I feel like it is rarely a wasted investment against mean green.

The Cauldron: This thing is flexible. It buffs where and when you need it without being able to be stopped by the magic phase. Ouch! Also it is hard as nails - we don't have anything to reliably take care of a cauldron other than getting a charge on it (unlikely with careful play) and breaking it with SCR, but that is still a long shot. Oh, and did I mention that it is usually the BSB as well that often is a prime target to help us break enemies when we win combat and out rank them? Yeah, the cauldron is a pain.

The Magic: I could probably talk all day about this one. First you have troops that recieve great benefit from the buff spells available - witch elves and corsairs with the SSS are A3 which is sick when you add hexes and augments into the mix. But the lore access that Dark Elves have really takes the cake too. Shadow - do I have to explain it? Pit scares us lowly I2 models, withering kills our racial advantage, enfeebling negates yours and by golly miasma makes us hit you on 5+ almost guarenteed. Not to mention Skillrazor of doom. Fire is downright nasty, several spells to deal with either big units or chaff as you desire, and even gets rid of my trolls! Death picks off my characters, lowers my leadership and has Black Hole Sun to eat me based on my aforementioned ***** Initiative. I think metal is really solid and full of useful spells,though not as powerful/versatile as the others, and I have no idea about dark magic.
The real scary part about dark elves is the dark elf ability to gain extra dice and force through whatever spell they need to win the game via throwing metric ass loads of dice at a spell and hoping to Total Power it. Need that game changing Flame Cage to go off? What about that Glittering Robes on your Executioners? How about the army destroying Soulblight bubble? Yeah, that is what scares me.

Honorable Mention: Harpies, for the reasons that we have discussed in previous posts.

Things That Don't Scare Me: Shades. I have enough chaff that is random movement to take care of expensive scouts. Also, fanatics - if the honorable mention harpies haven't taken them out. I generally don't have to worry about small units of T3 models with little protection. Also, they die easily to doom divers.

Blocks of unsupported elves. Without magical buffs or multiple units, really not a lot of DE infantry scares me. It might win, but at what cost? I usually have many more units or units that are vastly bigger which means I can afford the casualties. Also, most DE combat blocks are frenzied which means that you can do some nasty/stupid things to them with skill and luck and "help" from a lazy DE general.

Things That I Forgot to Rate: Chuck. He pisses me off, and I'm not sure that we can deal with him. I don't think that this is a purely O&G problem though, so I left him alone.

18-11-2011, 22:08
Hmm, hydra I don't mind so much, can always drop rocks on it. My main issue is Witch darts sniping my general/bsb/level 4, when pumped to kb by the Cauldron

DE infantry does not scare me unless Mindrazored. I will add a caveat to this: there are only 2 Units I'd consider attacking Black Guard with; Savage Orc Big Uns or Trolls as they will mince through any other infantry we have (including Black Orcs)
DE shooting is very good, but wasted against hordes of t4 troops

Agree with the above poster, it's mainly the Cauldron that worries me.

Pendant/CoC DreadPeg is annoying, although with a bunch of trolls vomiting on him will go down eventually. I've successfully knocked a couple of wounds off one with a Mangler too (2d6 st6 ap attacks are brutal)

25-11-2011, 13:33
Thanks gents, some good food for thought there :)

On a side note, I've been trialling a double level 4 (Dark/Shadow) list without much success, it just seems a little flimsy. I have been incredibly unlucky in my most 2 recent games though (in one a unit of 3 cat cav killed a full unit of extra attack armour piercing Black Guard without suffering a single casualty...), but I'm still going to give it a rest and move onto a double Dreadlord knight bus (a la Asger..), which I suspect will not go down too well- especially as I seem to run into O&G quite often, and they can take apart a knight bus in a single turn :(

Failing that, I'm still painting away on the Wood Elves, and I do have a more balanced list for Winter Incursion as a fail safe.

In case anyone is interested, here's the double level 4 list I was running:

Dark level 4 (general), stabby dagger

Shadow level 4, dispel scroll

Cauldron BSB

15 warriors, champion, standard bearer, Standard of Discipline

30 Corsairs, full command, frenzy banner

5 harpies

14 xbows, musician

10 shades, AHWs

10 shades, AHWs

10 shades, AHWs

6 Witches

6 Witches

20 Black Guard, standard bearer musician, Banner of Murder

Lord Dan
25-11-2011, 19:18
What were the units of 6 witches for?

Seems to me that it would be better to swap out 10 shades for a Hydra in this list to give it a little more hitting power.

25-11-2011, 19:24
The Witches either get Killing Blow and run into units to snipe characters, or I throw them into a unit and Mindrazor them- people then either have to burn their dispel scroll or take up to 18 S8 attacks. It just gives me another way to draw out the dispel scroll before committing the Corsairs.

01-12-2011, 02:35
So after watching the Wood elf battle- I commend you on being ballsy enough to leave out the treeMan-!!

But for reeal why are you using those over priced waywatchers-?? Those points could better served as eagles for more redirecting or another unit of wild riders.

A sad shame that WE hero mages cannot use BRB lores cause another wildform caster is soo needed.

Worst still it maybe 2 years if not 3 before a new codex. A real shame.

01-12-2011, 02:41
Now a small question that was put up with a game with Oncebitten-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jURFrkXmi_0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Do you believe the ole Curse would make you take dangerous terrain test per piece of terrain a unit crosses-? Ie: cursed unit starts from open terrain to a forest back to open ground. Is that 3 separate test-?

01-12-2011, 08:09
With Curse, I think that you just take the test once- but, someone did make a good point about fanatics and open ground so I'm really not sure. In any case, the spell is already good enough without the dangerous terrain for open ground :)

With regards to the Treeman- they're just too easy to kill. Way too many flaming attacks, and way too much Shadow magic, floating around for it to be worthwhile- I really think that at a tournament, it would be free points in around half of my games, or else would have to hide all game- against Dark Elves, Dwarfs, Warriors, or any other army with Shadow (pretty much all that can) it's in a world of trouble, and puts me almost 300pts down from the get-go. Similar to a hydra in that respect.

Same sort of thing for Treekin- they may well hit hard, but again- too much flaming, too many initiative based spells- with 2x scouts I'll usually get the second turn, which means even moving as fast as they can my opponent will get 2 attempts at Pitting them, and I've only got one scroll- which means I have to hope for a really good dispel roll, which relies on me getting 6 dispel dice out of the Winds of Magic, or my opponent fluffing his casting roll, or a massive scatter. Of course, if I take 2 units, that gets round that problem but is a huge points sink- into something which can still die fairly easily if my opponent has the tools to do so :(

With regards to the Waywatchers- they do something that nothing in the list can do, even if they are blasted expensive. That's stopping lone pegasus characters or Scar-Vets running over my army single-handedly- there's no other way for my to stop a standard Lizards army deploying in one corner and still beating me 16-4 with JUST the obligatory Scar-Vet pair. Same thing goes for Dark Elves with pegasus riders. The Waywatchers mean these guys have to be sitting in a unit, which makes them slower, which gives me more time to shoot them. A second unit of Wild Riders could work, but 1 unit is already so expensive that I really don't want to double up the points available for them :(

On a side note, my biggest bug bear still has to be that Waywatchers and characters don't get Glade Guard bows. Congratulations Sir, you are one of the finest Glade Guard we have ever trained. We feel you would be excellently suited for consideration to our Waywatcher school, or a promotion to Noble BUT YOU CAN'T TAKE YOUR BOW.

What. The. Actual. Funk?

01-12-2011, 10:17
With regards to the Waywatchers- they do something that nothing in the list can do, even if they are blasted expensive. That's stopping lone pegasus characters or Scar-Vets running over my army single-handedly- there's no other way for my to stop a standard Lizards army deploying in one corner and still beating me 16-4 with JUST the obligatory Scar-Vet pair.

Could you elaborate on this scar vet tactic?

01-12-2011, 10:42
Most UK tournament Lizard armies have at least 2 mounted Scar Vets. Their magic kit varies, but a couple of the more common ones are Burning Blade, Charmed Shield and Dawnstone (for squishing hydras/abombs), and great weapon, 2+ ward vs the first wound suffered, firefly venom and dragonhelm (for stomping Coaches)- so both T5 with a 1+ save, both virtually immune to their first cannon hit, 1 of them re-rolling his save.

Basically, even 78 glade guard are going to struggle to kill even one of them, and without the threat of Killing Blow there's nothing to stop them both just barrelling straight across the board at me, because literally my entire army will struggle to kill one of these. My best bet other than Killing Blow is Amber Spear, but even I've got to use a unit of Glade Guard to burn the Charmed Shield, and the other blasted creature has a 2+ ward so the first Amber Spear will just burn that.

Sweet mother of mercy I hate scar vets... my Witch darts have several scar vet scalps though from running into the and KILLING BRO YOU DAMN LIZARD

01-12-2011, 13:48
Ya-seems dumb to equip an army with two different type of bows....I hope in the "next codex" that character waywatchers get HKB to make them worth taking & waywatchers drop to 20 points or gutter runners, chamo skinks, & shades will just continue to laugh at them.

Back to the Curse.
The TK movement curse states that open terrain counts-so why would Anraheir not work in same way-?
As for fanatics- I think of them as chariots, but i do not have a O&G book in front of me.
As for multiple test-I reaaly do want to side for yes for if a unit were to pass through a piece of dangerous terrain and then land into another piece of dangerous terrain would that not be two different test-?

01-12-2011, 17:48
Thanks for the information, i feel like i should maybe include one in my 3000pts list now.

Are used specifically against 'uber' threats like the mentioned abomb/coach etc or are they also used alot to...hold up blocks(?) like your glade guard example.

Sorry to derail.

01-12-2011, 18:33
They can hold up blocks pretty well- they're ruddy hard to kill and have a decent damage output, and Cold-Blooded ld8 is awesome. Especially if you can get them in BSB range.

02-12-2011, 08:33
Updates with some Wood Elf games :)

02-12-2011, 20:25
I'm definitely rooting for your Wood Elves, they are not an easy army to use. Hope you can make them work well for you (and find a good job;))!

02-12-2011, 20:28
With WE it seems that one has to play the perfect game to get a win. Any loses just seem to add up realy quickly with such over price RnF units. And the forest spirit ward should be like the daemon ward-permanent.

In friendly games my reg opponent gives me price cuts on GG, GR, WW & WR. 10 point GG realy helps out. But new rules are truely needed.
And it will not happen for a long while.

02-12-2011, 20:29
Thanks :)

I must say, I've not gone with the most subtle approach... eagles/dryads in the way, walk backwards/sideways and then shoot 78 glade guard at the nastiest unit... fun though :)

02-12-2011, 20:34
With WE it seems that one has to play the perfect game to get a win. Any loses just seem to add up realy quickly with such over price RnF units. And the forest spirit ward should be like the daemon ward-permanent.

In friendly games my reg opponent gives me price cuts on GG, GR, WW & WR. 10 point GG realy helps out. But new rules are truely needed.
And it will not happen for a long while.

Yeah, I get that a lot- in the most recent game, a bad turn of positioning with the eagles cost me with win.

10pt GG would be ace- I think Wood Elves also need to be able to ignore mysterious forests, or at least not suffer penalties for shooting through them. A couple of points less on a few things, and 19pt WS5 Waywatchers, would go a long way. The book itself I think is good, but just costs way too much.

Athel Loren really needs a work over, I think it's really tied with the Beastman magic for worst in the game

Also, let the elite parts of the army keep glade guard bows!

03-12-2011, 07:04
12 mournfang cav...ouch!

Will you be getting treekin or a treeman next?

Lord Dan
03-12-2011, 12:39
I was under the impression that the +1S for close range GG bows was supposed to represent massed precision bowfire hitting the enemy, which is why small elite units like waywatchers and heroes don't benefit from the bonus.

They all have the same bows, they just do a little more damage when you put a bunch of them together in a single unit.

03-12-2011, 12:50
I've got 2 Treeman models on the ground they can't get worse in the next book...

@Lord Dan-so why does it work when there's just one of them left :p? Nah, really, I get what you mean- it's just incredibly annoying :(

04-12-2011, 01:29
Ok, I am now up and running on Universal Battle, so I'd love to start getting some games in against you guys, especially the chaps who live abroad and so I'll likely never meet let alone play in the flesh! It's a really good program, much easier than I though to use and very affordable- I've signed up for 3 months, cost me less than a fiver (around US$6 I think).

I've got a game recorded that I played tonight, it's almost 3 hours long and you can only hear one side of the Skype conversation, but I might upload it anyway just so people can see what the program is like to use.

In any event, I'll hopefully be playing at least one game a day (I'm going to go and look for one right now), so follow me on Twitter @tmarichards and I'll let you know when I'm about to play- you can watch the game and participate in the chat for free, so I'd love to have some more interaction with you guys.

If you're interested, the website address is www.universalbattle.com, and you're looking for games with BadKitty in them.


Tom (BadKitty on UB).

04-12-2011, 05:10
I would be interested, but am i correct in thinking you can only make a custom army by subscription?
Can you put the video up so myself and others can see how it works? I cant imagine how it would work out all the special rules, especially for my LM army.:confused:

04-12-2011, 05:14
The video is processing atm, but I think something has gone wrong with it.

I believe you can indeed only make a custom army via subscription, but there are a whole load of armies already on there so you can just proxy whatever you need. At the moment, there is someone using Empire for DE, for example.

All the special rules and game mechanics are worked out between the players in the chat window- all the game does is give you pictures to move around and so on, and a dice system- the turn sequence, psychology test and so on are all done by the player themselves similar in a physical game.

04-12-2011, 08:53
I've been thinking about Joining UB for a while, the cost put me off even though I didn't check how much it was.

Been dying to try out the new Chaos Dwarf Lists, my account on there is Akkaryn but won't have chance to sign up to the paid stuff till tonight.

Send us a PM and we can arrange a time.

04-12-2011, 15:29
Will do, I'm more or less permanently online.

09-12-2011, 05:52
Winter Incursion this weeked! Open lists for some reason, but here they all are, happy reading! http://www.protechcomputers.org/warhammerevents/Winter_Incursion_Lists.pdf

09-12-2011, 14:26
What comp was there on this event? most of the lists don't seem that bad. The spread is also somewhat disappointing hundreds of WoC/DoC and Skaven lists.

09-12-2011, 16:00
Wow... This tourny is going to be a nightmare for you mr Wood elf.
Wayy too many Skaven (woot woot), Warriors of chaos, & Ogre kingdoms ( rocking 2 of their broken cannons ....).

I kinda hope you face one of the Chaos Dwarf players- I realy do want to see how they play.

09-12-2011, 17:16
Tom is listed as Dark Elves according to the PDF he linked :P.

I've had a couple of games with the Chaos Dwarfs. Overall I'd say aside the Lore of Hashut (Which is even more Overpowered than Shadow) they are a little Overpriced, well the Dwarfs themselves are not, but the weapon options are very expensive.

I am also a little disappointed with the rules for the Iron Daemon, I thought it would be a version of the Stank, but as it's main damage isn't impact hits but thunderstomp all you need to do is get something larger in combat with it and it's essentially out of the game, 3 WS 4St 3 attack from the crew is all you get if it can't thunderstomp.

09-12-2011, 23:59
Interesting field for the next Tourney. One of the reasons I've gone back to my Beasts over Warriors is because I like being a unique snowflake. You might have a bit of a hard time against all the Warriors and Ogres, but we'll see.

Are you planning on keeping the Treekin as unit fillers? In the bigger units it's fine, but I'd take a bit of an issue if 4 out of 10 models in a unit were represented by a filler, and not even an actual filler, just another a model from a different unit.

Then again, if your on a very tight budget I guess I'd get over it. And the painting is looking nice.

10-12-2011, 07:11
Thanks all :)

I'm afraid the PDF is correct, I'm rolling out Dark Elves for this for their last big tournament for a while- only 2/3rds of the way done with my Wood Elves :(

10-12-2011, 08:50
It's my new years resolution to attend a few tournaments next year.
Think It'll be great fun. I just need to crack on with the painting side. Is there any you recommend around the south Yorkshire region?

I've been meaning to do some video reports but as we play on my unpainted gaming board with paper scenery it proves somewhat lacklustre.

11-12-2011, 05:37
Thanks all :)

I'm afraid the PDF is correct, I'm rolling out Dark Elves for this for their last big tournament for a while- only 2/3rds of the way done with my Wood Elves :(


Could you at least left shadow behind for the last hurrah-?
Good luck either way- lots of hard opponets. 5 stars for the chaos player with the 3 slanesh chariots & lvl4 slanesh lord.

13-12-2011, 15:03
It's my new years resolution to attend a few tournaments next year.
Think It'll be great fun. I just need to crack on with the painting side. Is there any you recommend around the south Yorkshire region?

I've been meaning to do some video reports but as we play on my unpainted gaming board with paper scenery it proves somewhat lacklustre.

I don't know of any specifically close to that are, but here is the place to look- there's usually a new event being advertised every couple of weeks http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=13

15-12-2011, 02:36
Wow poor dwarfs....

But for realzzz is it just me or is Dark Elf shooting just sooo much better than Wood elf shooting-? Shades make waywatchers look like chumps.

Lord Dan
15-12-2011, 04:36
Wow poor dwarfs....

But for realzzz is it just me or is Dark Elf shooting just sooo much better than Wood elf shooting-? Shades make waywatchers look like chumps.

It's more of a pricing issue than an effectiveness issue. Glade guard, glade riders, and waywatchers all need to cost less and most entries in the DE book with repeater crossbows need to cost a little bit more.

15-12-2011, 10:38
Against other armies maybe, but in the WE/DE match-up I really do think it's very very difficult for the DE to win because they tick all the boxes that WE like to play against- small, expensive, low toughness and low armour units. However, my first time playing against (2) Cauldrons when not having my own was a bit of a shock, damn that thing is good!

16-12-2011, 04:32
The dwarf game really made me realize what a powerhouse Shadow Magic is, as well as how amazingly it complements the Dark Elf army.

You would have thought that I could have learned that before now having watched many of your earlier reports, but I'm not always a quick one. After being initially skeptical, I completely agree with your dismissal of the hydra for the third unit of shades - it is really potent with the way that you play your army.

Off to watch more videos!

16-12-2011, 06:22
Was the 80pt Witch unit killing 80% of a Chaos Warrior unit not a clue? :p

16-12-2011, 06:30
Damn dirty Shades. They cause me no end of problems.

If I could ask a Wood Elf question, if you hypothetically had to put a Lvl 4 on a Unicorn, what kit would you give it and what unit would you put it in?

Mrs has decided to start Wood Elves, and though she wants to win games she wants a Unicorn more :P

Looking forward to the rest of Winter Incursion! I'm so jealous of the big UK tournaments.

16-12-2011, 06:57
I'll give it some thought, my first guess would probably be the 3+ ward until she fails it item though.

16-12-2011, 07:35
The general consensus of the Kadaai Destroyer is that it can always be wounded on 6's. Well most of the Chaos Dwarf Forum is saying that anyway.

16-12-2011, 07:44
Unfortunately, at the event it wasn't ruled that way.

If it can always be wounded on 6s then it goes from bleach-drinkingly stupid to just overpowered I think.

16-12-2011, 07:52
I've only had a few games with the C. Dwarfs not been taking it on purpose.

Flaming banner plus Hailshot Blunderbuss and Curse of Hashut is quite possibly the most destructive thing in the army though.

Although the Destroyer and Curse will pretty much do the same thing.

16-12-2011, 07:55
From my first game, the magic and war machines and toys all seem really good but the actual Dwarfs themselves are very average. What do you think?

16-12-2011, 08:05
I do find the Dwarfs Overpriced, well the weapons options anyway. Not sure what the guy you played used but my favourite option is a 12 inch, multipleshot X3, inherently with no multipleshot penalty, if you have 10 models in the unit you don't suffer long range or S&S pentalies, if you have 20 models they can reroll to wound.

I completely decimated a unit of 40 Greatswords in one turn because the flammable rule doubles wounds rather than gives multiple wounds (2).

16-12-2011, 08:10
That spell is pretty mean... especially if it's the one I'm thinking of that stops the unit from moving, shooting or casting spells...

16-12-2011, 08:14
That's the one, It's the only spell I like from the Lore,

I'm going to test Metal I think as I think the buffs would be overall better synergy. ( I don't run any of the elementals so aside the flaming better unit my armies doesn't have many flaming attacks)

The buff that gives Scaly Skin from metal giving a standard unit of troops a 1+ Save I think will cause people to panic.

16-12-2011, 09:02
Hello kittens, it's update time!

16-12-2011, 09:47
Good game on the dwarf front, three units of shades is pretty nasty. Im collecting a DE army for a friend so will be watching closely.

16-12-2011, 09:56
In hindsight, I think 3 units of shades was a massive error- in the current meta-game there just aren't many armies that can be taken apart by shooting. I've since come up with a really nice 2400pt list that I'm trying to get my mate to take to the Masters in January, I really wish I'd taken it to Winter Incursion.

If I do roll my Dark Elves out again, I'll be taking this list that's for sure!

16-12-2011, 10:35
Yea i see that now from the rest of your games and the summary. Good season though, i have learned alot from watching.

16-12-2011, 17:03
So-Kaadi Destroyer made me pee my pants a little. It will be good to know if 6s autowound it or if it is immune to attacks-? The auto fire attacks reaaly should be like d6 hits or sometin.

So you see the hellcannon as it can move & shoot-
but not move or fire, pivot to fire-? I believe you are wrong sir.

Cause like WLC says fires in the same way as a cannon, same with the plagueclaw catapult-follows the rules for stone throwers. Are you saying these warmachines do not get to pivot-?

I thought they took away skaven mobile artillery & further most people Donot want hellcannons moving and shootinng like those OP Ironblasters-who can move & pivot.

16-12-2011, 17:37
I'm not really sure what I was on about with regards to the Hellcannon, was very tired when I did the recording. In any event, it doesn't really matter because they're rubbish and not many people on the UK circuit run them.

16-12-2011, 20:21
Just watched the report vs the Chaos Dwarfs, and I'm no longer wondering how they finished so high. Good god. I suppose not knowing the list would hamper a lot of people playing against it. The Destroyer is just nasty as well. Though in all honesty, I don't think the intention of FW was to make it nearly unwoundable.

16-12-2011, 20:26
It is indeed. But, following my new method of taking a positive from every game, at least next time I'll know what to do against it slightly better...

18-12-2011, 14:04
You would have thought that I could have learned that before now having watched many of your earlier reports, but I'm not always a quick one. After being initially skeptical, I completely agree with your dismissal of the hydra for the third unit of shades - it is really potent with the way that you play your army.

it really is a wonderful insight into the army when they consider something as ridiculously undercosted as a hydra to be crap ;)

18-12-2011, 15:38
I wouldn't say it's rubbish, just that it's far too easy to deal with, so in most games it's free points.

18-12-2011, 16:01
DO you think the destroyer could be FW dipping its toe into the water? I mean the rules for big monsters are a bit funny at the moment, most get a cannon between the eyes before they move.
Making monsters more killy to regular troops but still having the same weakness might not be so bad.

18-12-2011, 16:41
I sincerely hope not, if their future stuff will be anything like the Destroyer...

19-12-2011, 00:36
[QUOTE=MOMUS;5976315]DO you think the destroyer could be FW dipping its toe into the water? I mean the rules for big monsters are a bit funny at the moment, most get a cannon between the eyes before they move.
Making monsters more killy to regular troops but still having the same weakness might not be so bad.[/QUOTE

Well that sounds good and all- BUT

The Destoyer really does move wwaaaay to fast to make the negative of self destruction not really a burden. Turn 3 charge at the latest.

Of course lores of Shadow, Death, & Plague can ruin the Destoyers day quick fast.

Or one mounted anti flaming character.

An FAQ is totattly needed-

19-12-2011, 05:12
Well that sounds good and all- BUT

The Destoyer really does move wwaaaay to fast to make the negative of self destruction not really a burden. Turn 3 charge at the latest.

Of course lores of Shadow, Death, & Plague can ruin the Destoyers day quick fast.

Or one mounted anti flaming character.

An FAQ is totattly needed-

9(?) does seem a little fast, but then again the sphinx can 'fly'. :p
Im just thinking whether we could see a trend in other monsters getting extra killy rules, they have slanted the scale. If it gets killed it gets killed but now its even more of a gamble as if it gets ino combat youre finished.

I have a tourney coming up but its not worrying me too much as i have poison, lots and lots of poison.

19-12-2011, 07:20
Personally I'd treat it just like any Frenzied thing you don't want to hit your lines, lead it on a merry-go-round.

Granted with the huge movement that makes it a little more trickier but still.

19-12-2011, 16:54
Frenzy isn't that easy to kite. They can still do a LD check to restrain. A nearby general and/or BSB makes the odds even better.

19-12-2011, 17:54
but they get pulled out of range alot easier cuz' they must pursue.

21-12-2011, 02:34
So I believe you might have to include boltthrowers back into you list sir-

As long as you use the singleshot function:

They can with luck kill a mournfang out right or at least cripple it
You can at least wound Kadaai Destoryers with it.

As for the wood elfs-untill a néw book comes the Treeman! Is your only saving grace VS Ogres. And only the white flag can be used against chaos dwarfs.

21-12-2011, 02:45
My next Dark Elf list is a thing of beauty, I think it's the strongest list I have ever come up with (it's a joint collaboration with my team-mate who might be taking to to the UK Masters in a few weeks), and it'll get rolled out at least once, maybe twice, in 2012 :). It eats Mournfangs alive...

21-12-2011, 02:54
Looking forward to seeing this brutal list

21-12-2011, 03:18
I suspect he'll likely be taking his VC to the Masters (they are the army he qualified with after all and he's the highest ranked player in the country with them) so I'm sure he wouldn't mind me posting it up here:

Metal level 4, general, Stabby Dagger, Lifetaker

Shadow level 4, dispel scroll


PegMaster, BSB, full mundane armour, Dragonhelm, Pendant of Khaeleth

17 warriors, full command, Standard of Discipline

12 xbows, musician

30 Corsairs, full command, AHWs, Frenzy banner

5 harpies

6 Witches

6 Witches

10 shades, AHWs

10 shades, AHWs

20 Black Guard, musician

Where Raf and I differ is that he cuts 2 shades, 2 Black Guard and the Witch Darts to fit in a second PegMaster with the Cloak of Hag Graef and Dawnstone, so that you have 2 characters to either go and snipe stuff, or fulfill the #you'renotmoving role...

There are a few things in it that I think need to be explained further, or at least touched upon:

1. Why Metal as the second lore? Basically, to kill buses and Mournfangs. Also, Metal has some great spells, Fire I think suits DE better but can't help as much against the bad match-ups as Metal can.

2. Lifetaker is back! Without Fireball, the list absolutely lacks a good way to clear Shades, Gutter Runners, Waywatchers and that last damn model from that big unit that I can't otherwise catch!

3. The BSB is not the Cauldron! This is a bit of a risk, but I think it's one I'm accepting to take. He should be getting the charge most games, and so he'll be going in with +2 static res. At worst, he should lose combats 1 (he'll likely do enough wounds to draw then lose by musician as a worst case scenario), and 8 with a re-roll is a pretty good chance at passing. He basically acts like a third combat block #you'renotmoving, and is also a great way to deal with any units of Mournfangs that stray outside the ld bubble- charge him in, maybe take a wound, maybe do 1 back, and he puts them on ld7 steadfast- a bit risky for a 300pt unit... he can also hang back if I need him to, so I can combine both the bubbles.

4. No standard bearer/magic banner on the Black Guard. Essentially, I only consider the champion worth taking if he'll have Crimson Death, and I also thing the unit needs a magic banner to make the Standard bearer worth taking (they rarely end up in combats where that 1 pip of CR will matter). Crimson Death is a pretty expensive upgrade, and the only banner worth taking (barring some extreme ETC-esque meta-gaming) on them is, my opinion, the Banner of Murder- and even then it doesn't help in every match-up. Stuff with a 5+ save, or no save, isn't really affected that badly because they wouldn't be making many armour saves anyway. Also, if I do want them to be armour piercing, I can go for Enchanted Blades on them- AP BG, hitting on 2s with a re-roll, is a little rude...

In any case, this is the list that I came back from Winter Incursion and wrote and wished I'd taken, I think it would've done much better. It's also what I'll be taking if I can make it to any ETC trial days...

21-12-2011, 12:54
No powerstone for the 2nd lvl4 ?

Things will get ugly in low magic phases.
A lvl2 of shadow is only needed-for what more do you want other than miasma? Skillrazer I suppose but there are chances that lvl4 failing to roll it.

21-12-2011, 14:38
Metal doesn't really address the main weakness of DE, which is that wounding enemies can be difficult with such low strength all round. As a result, having either Mindrazor or Withering is great, and Pit helps a lot against monsters and such.

Low magic phases will be a bit nasty, but the Metal Wizard is basically guaranteed a spell, maybe 2 (2 power dice minimum + either 1 or 2 stab attempts), and the Metal spells are very very easy to cast. If nothing else, popping Glittering Robes or a cheeky Final Transmutation (which I have to say I consider better than Dwellers once the character sniping is taken out) is very very easy.

21-12-2011, 14:53
yeah i was just about to jump in and say that the sac dagger helps DE weather low winds rolls rather nicely. it actually works out in their favor more often then not as the opponent only has 1-2 dice to stop them with. and i agree, final transmutation is much better than dwellers, 36" range and equal effectiveness vs S4 foes and increased vs S5 or higher. the casting cost is much friendlier as well. in fact, i've long been a champion of metal on the whole, interesting to see that ogres are finally bringing it out into the open.

21-12-2011, 14:59
The other awesome thing about Final Transmutation is the sheer number of ld tests it can force :)

03-01-2012, 19:44
Man I would asked for my money back if I were you and saw that I was playing children. Pass on that garbage.

03-01-2012, 19:48
I think the solution (outside the first round draw) will just be to play better and not get drawn against them :)

Having said that, the highlight of the weekend had to be the thinly veiled accusations of my Wood Elf list being OP :D

04-01-2012, 03:03
A though for the last battle:

a shame that treesinging is soo slow For a L shape pattern by movigng the forest could have landed the forsest into that cluster of *undead troopers- letting you treesing missle away at ludicricous range-FTW-!!!

04-01-2012, 05:24
Thanks for the reports! They're getting better and better.

Too bad you got totally screwed on some of those scenarios. Looking forward to more about the wood elves.

04-01-2012, 11:06
Thanks :)

Updated with my first tournament with Wood Elves :)

04-01-2012, 19:44
Good to see some WE reports, looking forward to the summary. :yes:

Why were all the opponents age 10 and below?

Lord Dan
04-01-2012, 22:23
Good reports are usual, though admittedly the WE list looks...I dunno, boring? Are you enjoying them as much as your DE?

04-01-2012, 22:37
For the moment, I'm enjoying them more :)

I think part of that is that a change is as good as a rest, and after 400 odd games with the Dark Elves I'm just burnt out on them.

05-01-2012, 08:00
Watching those reports has convinced me to start an Welf army. I've been after a shooty shooty army for a while, and while Chaos Dwarfs are shooty shooty, they are very static and quite dull to play (and play against I'd imagine)

Loving the fact that Wood Elves take a little bit more thought too, for your first tournament I think you did rather well. Although the scenarios were a little excessive. If you'd have got either of the vamp armies in the any double was a miscast game it'd have been a completely different story.

05-01-2012, 12:08
Y'know, I find it a little odd they felt a need to put in 2 scenarios screwing over shooting, when no one bar the Wood Elves needs/uses ballistics shooting to stay competitive in 8th :confused:

It's not like Combat armies really need a buff is it?

05-01-2012, 12:40
Watching those reports has convinced me to start an Welf army. I've been after a shooty shooty army for a while, and while Chaos Dwarfs are shooty shooty, they are very static and quite dull to play (and play against I'd imagine)

Loving the fact that Wood Elves take a little bit more thought too, for your first tournament I think you did rather well. Although the scenarios were a little excessive. If you'd have got either of the vamp armies in the any double was a miscast game it'd have been a completely different story.

Yeah :( then again, I don't think I've ever been renowned as being very lucky... must've upset a gypsy in a previous life :(

Go for it with the Wood Elves! I'm really enjoying them so far, they're not a power army but I don't think they're as bad as a lot of the internet wisdom says so. I think the problem is more that you get pigeonholed into a couple of builds due there only being a handful of competitive options, and once you start limiting the build you will of course get bad match-ups- having said that, I think there are still some pretty good match-ups (Elves on any kind, daemons without a greater daemon). Although, it is still an auto-loss if I have to play a Bloodthirster, unless he's terrible and lands in in front of my army :/

Y'know, I find it a little odd they felt a need to put in 2 scenarios screwing over shooting, when no one bar the Wood Elves needs/uses ballistics shooting to stay competitive in 8th :confused:

It's not like Combat armies really need a buff is it?

Agreed. The TO, Mark Borland, is in fact the best Wood Elf player in the UK- I mentioned I felt Wood Elves got a bit hard done by, and he said he didn't want people to be able to say he gave them an easy time of it... I think he went a little overboard though :/

05-01-2012, 12:53
I personally just want to play them to use the Lord as alter kindred with the bow that lets him shoot as many times as he has attacks with the arrows that don't allow saves. It's a lot of points for only 5 shots but I really like the concept.

05-01-2012, 13:08
Ahhh, the LorenLord... I've been running him a bit, but not as an Alter Kindred (just so that he can be the army general and so that he can join units).

05-01-2012, 13:08
I also love how you played Dark Elves with almost everything you say is mediocre in the Dark Elf army in her list and proved it by smashing them. Well. You also outplayed her massively, but you know what I mean :P

05-01-2012, 20:49
Yup :)

It does also always help when you play someone and you know their army better than they do :D