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venomx51
20-04-2011, 10:58
Trying to tweak my list while my Dark elf opponent is away on holiday;

He'll most definitely take his usual lvl 4 sorceress with Ring of Hotek and sacrificial dagger, 40 Executioners (with Cauldron of Blood ward save buff), lots of 20-30 strong crossbow units and 2 hydras.

Here's my usual counter to that;

Grimgor Ironhide (Army General)

Lvl 4 Savage Orc Shaman
Lucky Shrunken Head, Fencers Blades, Potion of Speed

Orc Big Boss (BSB)
Armour of Destiny

Lvl2 Night Goblin Shaman
Dispel Scroll

Goblin Big Boss on gigantic Spider
2+ re-rollable armour save (this guy protects my war machines from scouts)

39 Savage Orc Big 'Uns (fc)
Additional Hand Weapons

99 Night Goblins (fc)
Nets, Spears, 3 fanatics

10 Wolf Riders
4+ save, spears and bows

30 Black Orcs (fc)
Banner of Eternal Flame

3x Spear Chukkas

Doom Diver

Giant
Warpaint



I've also got 8 trolls, a Rock Launcher, and an Orc Chariot kicking about that I can use.

My two areas I'm considering changing are Grimgor and the Giant. Could maybe take a cheaper combat Lord choice and take a chariot in it's place, or drop him altogether and take a unit of Trolls. But I do like Grimor :)

Any comments/ideas welcome...

sssk
20-04-2011, 12:18
I tried replying to this earlier and warseer had a heart attack, so let's try again.

Everything looks totally fine.

My few suggestions:

Get rid of Grimgor A) because he's a smelly special character, B) because you can take a (savage) orc warboss and maybe chariot and rock lobba for the points (which is better in my opinion).

6 trolls is at least 10000000000000% better than a giant for roughly the same points.


Those are just personal opinions though, I can't see anything in the list which I wouldn't have there on tactical grounds really (maybe the giant).

Grupax
20-04-2011, 12:28
6 trolls is at least 10000000000000% better than a giant for roughly the same points.


not necessarily,
trolls need to be kept near the general and are a lot less effective vs hydras, steguadons, steam tanks, the new tomb king monsters, ... and break when they lose combat quickly.

venomx51
20-04-2011, 12:33
Yeah, the Giant's a bit of a love/hate thing really. I have one, and like the model, but last game he managed to pick up a single spearman and put him in a bag, and kill a further 1 with a stomp attack. Not a particularly amazing use of 200+ points. Last time I tried trolls his hydra fire breathed them, then ate them. Wasn't very nice. So avoid fire and try again perhaps.

Grimgor vs Savage orc boss tho is a question. Something like silvered steel armour and Axe of stunty smashin (with the shrunken head) and you've got a cheap man's Grimgor (110 points cheaper). Trouble is he'd need to be in the unit with my shaman to get the 5+ ward save, which is a bit eggs and baskets. Also the Black Orcs loose their re-rolls and extra WS, which are both very nice. Question is is it worth loosing Hatred on 30 black orcs to include a Rock lobber or chariot?

sssk
20-04-2011, 12:41
trolls need to be kept near the general and are a lot less effective vs hydras, steguadons, steam tanks, the new tomb king monsters, ... and break when they lose combat quickly.

But the trolls will actually reach the enemy line (as long as they're within range of the general and BSB... but why wouldn't they be?).

As an example (using your examples):

Against a hydra, maybe a giant could do fairly well (having higher initiative etc), though it might well be shot to bits before it gets to combat.

Against lizardmen and empire, if the giant makes it into combat then the opponent must be doing something wrong. I can think of nothing better at killing giants than skinks and cannons (and there's no better target in the orc and gobbo army).

Couldn't say about tomb kings.

RE breaking easily, as long as they're within range of the general and BSB they shouldn't break too easily, and also they shouldn't be losing too many combats either.

My point is, in the huge huge huge majority of situations, 6 trolls is much better than 1 giant if due to nothing other than they will almost always reach combat and have a big impact there.

EDIT: just on a side note, I own, and use 6 trolls AND a giant, just for a bit of diversity if nothing else, but if points are tight, I know exactly which one goes first. The giant has his uses, but has a lot of drawbacks too.

GenerationTerrorist
20-04-2011, 16:16
My setup is usually:

- Savage/Black Orc Warboss; Shield, Armour of Destiny, Stunty Bashin' Axe
- Savage Orc Lvl4 Great Shaman; Shrunken Head, Fencers Blades
- Black Orc BSB; Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield

Works OK for me so far :-)