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View Full Version : NEW Tomb Kings Vs. Daemons again!



Zoolander
21-04-2011, 10:15
Revenge of the Daemons! (Or… When Magic Doesn’t Blow Your Way)

I fought the same DoC player I played last weekend, the battle where stomped him good. Well, this time around he was ready for me and gave me a very hard time. Here’s how the battle went.

2500 pts.

Tomb Kings:

TK, chariot, blade of antarak, talisman of Pres, enchanted shield
LHP, book of ashur

50 skeletons, FC
20 archers
5 chariots, FC

30 TG, halberds, BotUL, FC
3 stalkers
1 Warsphinx

1 Hierophant
1 Casket
1 SSC

Daemons:

Bloodthirster, Khorne armor, fireblade, axe of Khorne
Khorne herald BSB, warbanner, juggy, fireblade, Khorne armor
Tzeentch herald, loremaster (beasts), dispel “scroll”

30 bloodletters, FC
30 Horrors, FC

9 Hounds
5 Flamers

3 Crushers

Spells -
I rolled for spells and got 1, 2, 6, and 6. Exchanged one 6 for Smiting, and the other for Desert Wind. My opponent knew all his. That is such a nice ability.

Setup. I placed the TG and Skeletons right dab in the middle next to each other, the Sphinx to the left of those, the archers to the right, and the casket behind and to the left of the sphinx. To the right I placed the chariots, the archers and LHP just behind them, the SSC behind that and the titan to the right of that.

My opponent placed his horrors and BLs right in the middle opposite my two blocks. His BT went off to the side. On the other side, his hounds and crushers were placed and the flamers ended up between the BT and the horrors, to his left.


Turn 1a – I actually got to go first. I moved most things up 4”, including the chariots. I rolled rather low for magic – something like 5, but gained 1 from the casket. I didn’t channel once the whole game, but my opponent channeled once each turn save for turn 4. I tried to cast my first spell, Smiting, getting the archers to fire again. I miscast on three dice. I rolled on the chart, and my wizard loses three levels including the spell he cast. My opponent (a friend) suggested we ignore this roll, because he wanted a more fair fight and knew if I miscast now and lost 3 levels I would not stand much chance. Being a friendly game, I agreed to it. Close games are more fun anyway. So we agreed he simply failed to cast his spell. No problem. I throw the other 3 dice at the casket and shoot the light of death at his crushers. He fails to dispel it and I do three wounds! Sweet! Shooting: I lob a flaming skull at his general, but it jams – cannot fire for next turn either. Archers take a pot shot at the big guy and actually manage a wound. Woot! The chariots attempt to shoot the flamers but fail to wound/hit.

Turn 1b – Daemons march forward, the Bloodthirster takes flight and lands on top of a small hill facing the archers, my hierophant and the titan. This does not look good. The hounds and crushers keep pace and march. The flamers step to the side and move 6”. Magic: He gets like 6 dice or so, and shoots Bolt of Change at the chariots. I dispel. He tries to cast the Spear one and fails. Shooting. The flamers shoot at the chariots, but only one manage 1 wound.

Turn 2a – I declare a charge at the flamers. It’s long, but I take the gamble. If I make it, it will give me a good edge and put him off guard. I succeed my roll and chase across the table. He stands and shoots but does not wound at all. The Sphinx charges the hounds and makes it easy and the two blocks hold. The titan steps to the side, and my priest leaves the unit of archers and flees… well, if you call 4” a flee. My stalkers appear behind the crushers, move up and gaze evilly at them. I manage 2 wounds, but he ward saves. Magic. I didn’t roll well for magic, but did manage 3 extra dice. I cast Smiting to all within 24”. He fails to dispel it. The chariots heal their wound. I attempt the casket, and he fails to dispel. The crushers take 2 wounds. Finally, I cast Shem’s Gaze. The BT takes 8 hits. I figure at least one of those would wound, but no. Needed 6s and got 2, but he saved. The archers fire twice at the big guy and manage to hit him a few times, but only wounded twice, which he both saved. 3+ armor + 5+ ward = the suck. Combat! The chariots do some ridiculous wounds on impact hits alone. 9 wounds, only 1 save, and 4 dead flamers. The other one died to the Tomb King. We reform to face the horrors’ flank, which is what did me in. I should have overrun and left the combat behind. The Sphinx takes a wound from the hounds, and do only do 2 in return. He makes his LD check.

Turn 2b – He declares a charge against the archers with his general, not surprisingly, and at my chariots with his horrors. He also charges the Sphinx’s flank with the crushers. His Bloodletters have the extra charge banner and leap across the field into the skeletons. Magic. He gives his horrors Wildform, and I dispel the Gift of Chaos (which is no gift at all!). He devours 10 skeletons on his charge and blows the other 10 up to CR, overrunning past the LHP. His horrors actually do a wound to the TK, which doubles to 2. The other horrors destroy 1 chariot. We fail to do more than a wound to the horrors with their cursed ward save, and lose combat by like 9 and lose three more chariots…!!! ←---- Very sad panda! The BLs take a big bite out of the skeleton unit. Skellies fail to do anything back and they lose like 10 more to CR. The crushers and hounds do another wound to the sphinx. Sphinx tries his thundercrusher attack but I miss. The riders did manage to do 4 wounds to the hounds, but they save three. We lose combat by 2 and take another wound.

Turn 3a – The TG charge the flank of the Bloodletters, and the Stalkers rear charge the crushers. The hierophant realizes that he cannot escape the BT and just stays put. The titan moves to charge the BT, should that be possible. Magic. I get a decent roll for magic as I recall, but only get one die from the casket. I give the chariots +1 A, and they heal 3 wounds. Hurray! I try to give them a ward, but it gets dispelled. I do cast Shem’s Gaze again, but I don’t roll a single wound. The SSC looks about aimlessly, searching for a target… Combat. We actually win combat against the BLs. They fail to do more than 2 wounds to the TG, and the skeletons take something like 6 or so. The TG kill 5 or more BLs, though. He rolls high on his LD check, but rerolls and takes no damage. The horrors do not do any wounds, and we kill three of them, healing my lord, and injuring the herald, and we tie. He has a musician and I take a wound on the chariot. The crushers destroy a stalker, the stalkers destroy a crusher, the hounds fail to wound the sphinx, and the sphinx kills another dog. We win by a small margin and the crushers explode. The hounds roll better and take a single wound. The stalkers are now out of combat, so we reform to face the hounds.

Turn 3b – The deciding turn of the game. The bloodthirster decides he’s thirsty for some TK and leaves the hierophant alone, moving into position to charge the chariots next turn. Magic. He gets off the Wildform again on the horrors. Combat. The horrors manage to do 2 wounds on the chariots, and we do nothing in return due to their ward saves and now TO4. We lose by 5 and my TK crumbles back into the sand. The horrors reform to face the TG. He obliterates nearly 7 skeletons and 2 TG, but we manage to 6 in return and flank and have a rank more. We lose slightly. I thought I was making progress with the hounds, but they are very resistant. We try the crush attack again and miss. The boys on top do a single wound. The hounds do 2 wounds and crumble the sphinx to ash. The stalkers are not amused.

Turn 4a – I charge the hounds. I have nothing left to lose. They still have like 6 remaining, but maybe I’ll roll well. I roll a 3 for power, and get a single extra die from the casket. I give the TG an extra attack, which he fails to dispel. I heal back 3 members. I cast Gaze again, but it fails to wound as always. I fire at the horrors with the SSC, and it scatters 10” away. The stalkers kill a hound, but the hounds do 5 wounds in return, killing one and injuring the last member. The CR beats the final stalker to the ground. So much for that idea. The TG beat some more sense into the BL. They are really taking a beating. However, before that, they kill something like 6 skeletons and 1 TG. The skeletons are almost done, but the BLs are not looking so hot either.

Turn 4b – He charges the TG unit with his horrors. His Hounds move into the kill to finish the casket, and his general moves to charge either the hiero or the rear of the TG. He manages to cast Wildform again, but I dispel gift successfully. Combat. The tougher, stronger, horrors hit the TG and kill like 4 of them. The BLs kill another two, and the herald and BL facing front finish off the skeletons. The TG manage to kill another 5 BLs or so, and 3 horrors. He wins by a ton and I lose some TG. The BL turn to face the TG.

Turn 5a – I cast Smiting and get the banner off as well, healing 7 TG. I try to nail the BT, but the SSC blows up. Sigh. The TG take a real beating, but do manage to slay something like 6 more BLs and 2 horrors. Three attacks went to the herald, but he saved them all. They are down to like 5 BLs left and the herald (and lots of horrors). I win combat this round, anyway. I concede here, since the Bloodthirster is going to just eat those TG to pieces next turn.

Victory – solidly in the daemons corner. We didn’t count points, but it was a slaughter! I’m pretty sure he would have gotten the rest of the TG and the casket before turn 6 ended. He pretty much got everything but the priest and the Titan, but only because he was making the game more interesting. He could have killed the priest as well.

What I learned this time: Well, chariots are bloody awesome on the charge and pretty sucky otherwise. With no supporting attacks, they don’t do much, especially without a character leading them. I screwed up ironically, and never game the chariots MWBD ability, but it would not have helped any. They needed 4s as it was. I charged the chariots out to avoid the BT, but I should have overrun, then circled them back around to help the TG or even tackle the BT with them. Stalkers are cool, but not as cool as Bloodcrushers. Their gaze attack is pretty fun though. The Necroknights are much better overall. I’m reminded again how undead can really suck due to crumbling. This army is still very dependent on magic. If you fail to get the right spells, or fail to roll good power dice in your magic phase, things will go poorly. Last game I was rolling higher. The Titan is great at getting spells off, however. The casket I am still on the fence about. On one hand, the extra d3 PD is nice, and its attack can be cool vs. low leadership armies. But it wasn’t anything to shout about either. This game, it provided 1 PD a few turns, and two another two, and killed one crusher. Meh. Not horrible, but not great. I think another unit of archers could do just as much damage, especially with Smiting on them both. Also, TK don't have a lot that can handle a GD. I may have gotten lucky with the SSC, but chances are, he would have lived regardless.

Anyway, thanks for reading!

Malorian
21-04-2011, 12:20
Well that turned out a lot differently than your first game.

The skullapult is all TK really have against a greater deamon. Either you get lucky and kill it or it gets into combat and crushes you.

w3rm
21-04-2011, 13:13
Verrrry Different. Magic seemed to not be on your side today.

Deff Mekz
21-04-2011, 13:54
Nice report again Zoolander, conisdering both your reports I think I'll be taking a Potion of Healing on the TK as well as the Spear. i might take two Liche Priests with the Lore of Nek to amke sure I get all of those augment spells to. Also, the casket seems to be a must to me, it was clear that in this game you were sufffering thanks to the Winds of Magic. The Casket will at least help, even if it isn't spectacular all the time, to help counter this.

Deff.

Boss_Salvage
21-04-2011, 14:55
Happy to have these early New TK reports, thanks for writing them up. In this battle, were you remembering to t-stomp those hounds with your sphinx? They're warbeasts, and unless I missed something the warsphinx definitely can t-stomp (I think in addition to the t-crush or whatever template attak, too). Aren't stalkers monstrous beasts? So there's some more stomping.

- Salvage

Zoolander
21-04-2011, 18:15
Thanks guys! Yes, a very different game indeed. But each game is educational, and I learn something knew.

Yes, the TK army is very dependent on the winds of magic, and unlike our VC counterparts, we can't take MotBA. We do have the casket, and it did help some. Mostly, I used it's power dice to fuel it's LoD ability. I would have preferred that to be a shooting attack, then the PD gained could be used for spells. It's expensive if you only use it to generate PD. So keep that in mind. The Titan is very good, adding d3 to each casting. That helped a lot. Combined with the Ashur, I was at least level 6 at all times, once level 8! :evilgrin: Miscasting on the very first spell of the game didn't help any. :cries: Fortunately, it was a friendly game and he wanted to see them at full strength so we ignored that.

Yes, the Sphinx did stomp each turn, but I just rolled very poorly for his attacks. The first turn I rolled a 1, and nothing higher than 3 the rest of the game.

His ward saves really saved his butt again. There were many fights where I'd wound like 6 guys and he would save 4 of them.

The Blade of Antarak is good. Really good. It's no longer a spear, but that's ok. TK are rather slow, so he will go after a lot of other troops, and heal himself. You could sneak a potion in there somewhere. I went with the enchanted shield, for his save is pretty weak, but it's up to you. Especially against anything flaming, it could really help.

GodlessM
21-04-2011, 19:00
Why did you keep trying to Thundercrush the Flesh Hounds? Template hits 4 Hounds, meaning the max. wounds you can do is 4, which is the same as your normal attacks, however your normal attacks have both a better chance to hit and to wound.

Also, why, just why did your mate choose not to charge the Hierophant?

Stymie Jackson
21-04-2011, 19:43
I'm wondering if the Necrosphynx is just the better choice versus daemons, compared to the Warsphynx...or were you rare point limited?

I thought chariot crew got supporting attacks? Could you let me know (unsure from the other threads) if it's true both crew get a bow and a spear like DE chariots, and are they still 'elite' skeletons with a massive WS of 3?

So, as far as buffing magic goes, Heirotitan>Casket? Is the heiro any good in CC at all?

Maybe the LHP needs some Red Bull instead of the Book of Ashur (aka, flying). Do the wings interfere with taking the Plaque of Incantations? That seems like a very useful item, to help dominate one magic phase a game...

EDIT, from the OP on the TK thread:
Skeleton Chariots
additional full rank adds +1Str to the impact hits. Crew in second rank may make support attacks, but horses cannot

Is that wrong?

GodlessM
21-04-2011, 19:49
So, as far as buffing magic goes, Heirotitan>Casket? Is the heiro any good in CC at all?

I'd say no since you need to keep the Hierophant near the Titan, but you don't need to keep him near the Casket.


Maybe the LHP needs some Red Bull instead of the Book of Ashur (aka, flying). Do the wings interfere with taking the Plaque of Incantations? That seems like a very useful item, to help dominate one magic phase a game...

That combo is great way to get your Hierophant killed.

Stymie Jackson
21-04-2011, 19:51
Well, running away at 4" is a great way to get killed too as Zoolander found out (the Bloodthirster decided he rather play with something else) so I would consider the wings to be used as a defensive mechanism (aka, get the #$%&#$@ out of danger) rather than bombing runs.

The plaques as far as causing a miscast...yeah I guess the Heiro might not want that.

GodlessM
21-04-2011, 21:35
I was not refering to a miscast I was refering to a lone character with no saves of any kind.

Zoolander
21-04-2011, 21:50
Godless, you are probably right. But I can hit 8 hounds with the template, so I was taking a gamble.

I think the Cloak is a good idea actually. He can use it only when he's in danger. If used all the time willy-nilly, he is asking to get shot. In this particular case, the cloak would have been nice.

I asked my opponent afterwards why he didn't try to charge the LHP. The distance wasn't too great, he could have made it easily. He said he had his eye on killing the TK and just chose to focus on that, and he wasn't sure he wanted to bother trying to kill the Titan who would have counter charged. At that point, I also think it really didn't matter. He had the game wrapped up, and he knew it.

Yes, with a few multiwound models, the Necrosphinx would have been a better choice. It's also the only real chance at killing a GD.

Yes, I think the Titan is > the Casket. But the casket doesn't need to be near the any casters. The casters need to stay within 12" of the Titan. He's not horrible in combat - in fact, he's not bad at all. But I was reluctant to push him into it, which I probably should have. Next game I will try that.

I am still trying to get my Battle Chronicler to work! Hopefully it will be working by the next battle I have.

Sqallum
21-04-2011, 22:16
Good reports, and unlucky on the loss. I demand revenge!!!! :mad:
Sqallum

Zoolander
22-04-2011, 00:24
Good reports, and unlucky on the loss. I demand revenge!!!! :mad:
Sqallum

Revenge is coming!!! Hopefully!! I am learning from some of my mistakes. I am having to relearn TK, since I haven't used the miniatures in like 2 years, so I am adjusting to that, plus the new rules. I think I have a better feel for how well things work in combat, and my next battle will be better!

GodlessM
22-04-2011, 00:28
Godless, you are probably right. But I can hit 8 hounds with the template, so I was taking a gamble.

Yup sorry, I forgot they were in a ranked formation (last time I saw Flesh Hounds on the table was 7th ed. so they were just ranked 6x1).

Zoolander
22-04-2011, 09:42
Yup sorry, I forgot they were in a ranked formation (last time I saw Flesh Hounds on the table was 7th ed. so they were just ranked 6x1).

Ah. Yeah he had 9? So 5 in front, 4 in back. Works quite well. I guess his points were so tight, he couldn't afford one more dog... so sad.

Zoolander
22-04-2011, 18:06
I'm facing Dark Elves tonight, and will post after the game.

Curse my Battle Chronicler!!!

GodlessM
22-04-2011, 18:12
Good luck. Esco beat some Dark Elves last night but said it was a tough affair.