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Zoolander
21-04-2011, 10:26
I wrote this tactics article to help people (myself included) understand the subtle nuances to the new lore. I have divided this into two parts: one concerning a Liche High Priest, and the other for the Liche Priest.

If anyone has anything to correct or add, just let us know. We are all trying to wrap out minds around the new lore, and everyone has something to offer the rest of us haven't thought of.

First, let's go over the spells in detail, isolating their strengths and weaknesses. As we should all know by now, any augment from the lore also heals affected units by d3+1. This means the first 4 spells only.

The Lore of Nehekhara

0 - Desert Wind (8+). Allows all units in 12" to move again. Does not affect those engaged in combat. May increase range to 24Ē for higher casting cost (16+). The low casting number on this spell makes it worth taking. The only real downside is that it prevents charging with it, which sucks, and it doesn't affect those already in combat (no healing for you!). I wish it had done one or the other to make this spell great, but as it stands, it only allows you to do what every other army in the game can do for free (with a slight healing buff to boot). However, there is a slight caveat to that. It does allow movement in situations where normal movement would not be allowed, say after returning from running off the board, or after a failed charge move, or moving archers again but allowing them to fire still in the ranged combat phase, for example. Though the advantages to this option are severely limited, they do exist and should be recognized.

1 - Cursed Blades (7+). The low casting value on this spell means it's a no brainer. Giving units KB or improving KB by 1 is a big deal to many opponents. The only bad side to this spell is the lack of AoE ability. It only targets one unit. But at such a low casting value, it's worth it.

2 - Protection (9+). The second best spell in the lore, this gives a 5+ ward to any unit. Can also be bumped to affect all units within 12", but doubles the casting value (18+). Well worth it. Also benefits from the lore attribute (AoE ward + healing? Yes please!).

3 - Righteous Smiting (9+). The best spell in the lore, Smiting gives a unit within 12" +1AT, and double shots (x2) for ranged attacks. It can be increased to affect all within 24" for 18+. This is the spell you really, really want. Tell me what you want, what you really, really want. You want this. Keep in mind the benefits last until the casterís next magic phase, so all through your opponentís next phase as well (as with all augments).

4 Ė Vengeance (10+). And now we get to the so-so spells. This one lowers a target unitís movement by d3 and makes them take a terrain test should they move. Can be increase to 36Ē for 13+. This hex can be useful vs. certain units, and might be amusing against Hell Pits and other units forced to move, it honestly doesnít do much on the surface. However, when one considers charge ranges are affected as well, then we see why it actually could be useful. The thing is, if you roll a 1, it wonít do much, and if you roll a 3 it will cripple most infantry units. Hence why it is situational and cannot be relied upon.

5 Ė Desiccation (11+). This hex reduces the ST and TO of an enemy by 1. Not bad. Not overly powerful, but could provide the edge you need to win a combat. Can be increased to reduce them by d3 for 22+. Difficult to get off, and you still may end up rolling two 1s for the amount decreased. Kind of a bummer there. Still, the potential -3 to the two most important stats in the game is quite nasty. Between the last 3 spells, this is my personal favorite, one that will provide the most use, but Iíd stick to the 11+ casting most of the time. 22+ is a death sentence waiting to happen to a hierophant, something you do NOT want.

6 Ė Skullstorm (15+). Initially, this vortex appeared weak, but Iíve come to realize itís not that bad and has some interesting uses. Considering we have no magic missiles or direct damage spells, this is important in that aspect. This will be what you remove units of harpies, skinks, gutter runners, and maybe even knights with some luck, when shooting fails you. There are some inherent weaknesses to it, though. Itís only ST4, so not bad but not OMG dangerous either, it allows armor saves, so you canít effectively snipe knights with it, and it moves randomly, meaning it could come back to kill half your own units that are quite often TO3 with little to no armor. It can be bumped to 25+ to use the large template, but that is just asking for a miscast, something you donít want a hierophant to do! Basically, if you roll this spell, you will drop it in favor of Desert Wind, which will be more useful and far less dangerous to you.

Comments about the incantations? Ok letís move on to the characters.

LHP

Spells - If you field one or more LHPs, at least one must be the heirophant and must use the Lore of Nehekhara. I would not take two in this lore, however. You will overlap spells and be useless to you. Better to take the second lore in Death or Light. This Lore is good for level four mages. Here is the why. You really want spells 0-3, and you want at least two of them. By rolling four dice, you are going to roll doubles of some kind and/or a 6 most of the time, enabling you to exchange the spells for more 0-3 incantations. However, the worse possible dice roll you can get is a 1, a 4, a 5, and a 6. You can exchange the 6 for spell 0, but that still leaves you with only spell 1 to heal into combat, it only affects one unit, and KB isnít always useful against all enemies (either due to very low or no armor and/or lack of multiple wound enemies). If you roll this, you are screwed. I would concentrate on getting Desiccation off, even trying for the higher casting value. Yes, I just said donít do this, but in some cases, you have very few other spell options. Spell 0 doesnít help in combat, spell 4 doesnít help in combat, and spell 1 may not be helpful at all (other than minor healing). Good luck! Hopefully, you will not roll this, and have rolled some doubles so you can concentrate on getting spells 0-3 (especially 3). The more of those, the better.

Magic Items Ė Sadly, with GWís move to remove all good magic items from the books, mages are getting stuck with sucky items. Out of the 14 items in the Arcane section, only 2 are not one use only. Lame! Of those two, only one is any good: The Book of Ashur. This is an excellent item, but expensive. Personally, I would go that route, and maybe even get a 30 pt talisman for a 5+ ward, or maybe a Power Stone, but itís up to you. Iím sure there are some other combos that are good. The Plaque of Mighty Incantations is useful for a one-time spell burst, especially if you are low of power dice that turn.

LP

Spells Ė For Liche Priests, I would not take the Nehekhara Lore unless he is your hierophant. The reasons for this are simple. There are just two many bad combos you can roll with two dice. 4 and 6? Great, no combat healing, nothing useful there. Second, if you already have an LHP, then you donít want to be rolling on the same lore if you can help it. Instead, I would go with Light or Death magic. I am leaning toward Light in this case, because there are some very useful augments there. Death is useful for sniping characters and casting Doom, however, and if you take a third priest, this will be his lore.

Magic Items Ė Same as above for arcane items, but LP can take some useful items such as Dispel Scrolls or Power Stones, which could stop a nasty spell or augment a bad casting phase nicely.

Caster placement Ė I believe casters should be away from the combat, not in big block units as they are asking to destroy a lot of guys when they miscast. I say when, because all mages miscast sooner or later. I am of the college that believes in putting casters in small units of archers, for example. That way, they are out of the action most of the time, and if they explode, you only lose a couple of guys.

What are your opinions of the new lore and our new casters? Anything worth mentioning?

meowser
21-04-2011, 14:48
Thanks for this post, Zoolander.

What do you think will be the standard magic setup for 2-3K games?
LHP w/ Nehekhara, LP with Light? This is what I'm leaning towards.

It is a shame how hit and miss the Nehekharan lore is, and I see your point that it's just too risky to take it on a hero LP.

What are you thoughts on our magic buff options from our rare choices?

Since my local metagame doesn't see much gribbly action, I'm thinking Casket and Hierotitan all the way!

Also, what are your thoughts on our special characters?
Do you think the loremaster is worth his point, for at least getting back some certainty in the form of not having to worry about not getting any of the good spells?

The_Bureaucrat
21-04-2011, 16:00
You forgot the most important part. The hierotitan. Giving +d3 to all casting results this is a must for all magic heavy armies. Its effectively making your level 4 HLP a level 5-7. This means you can force your oppenent to use an extra dispel dice most of the time and cast with a single die a lot more reliably at the end of the phase. In addition he comes with two bound spells the signature light and signature dark (or so the rumors say).

I can't see myself ever trying to go magic heavy without the hierotitan.

Other notes:
Light is good but be careful as there is one really crappy spell that doesn't help you at all (rally all fleeing troops).

Skyros
21-04-2011, 16:46
There are too many problems with the TK magic system

-high power level for the bound spells that exist. Can't reliably cast them on one die, really need 2. This means the casket is really only powering himself and not boosting your magic phase. And the TK need a decent magic phase

-can't heal characters

-can only heal one wound on constructs *per magic phase*. And it might be worse: it might be one wound per unit, not per model. How are units of ushabti supposed to function?

-I hadn't even considered that the base spell *is not an in combat heal*. This basically makes TK broken, IMO. That can't possibly be right. TK need that spell. Naturally your opponent will try to dispell it, but I just don't see TK doing well at all when they can't even heal more than one unit in combat per magic phase (and that for only d3+1!) not when you can have 13 skeletons crumble in a single round. This spell should heal everyone in the radius and only grant the bonus move to people who aren't in combat (obviously). And you're right: this makes it so there is absolutely no reason to take an L2 Liche with nehekaran lore. (Which is retarded, IMO) as the signature spell is basically pointless. What a waste. I was hopeful of the new TK book when I started seeing the rumors but the more closely I look at it the more deeply flawed it appears to be.

Corvus Corone
21-04-2011, 17:01
Remember also there's the casket for +d3 dice.

I'm leaning with death over light for the second priest. Only because I like the power dice generation and light has a spell which is useless.

Bac5665
21-04-2011, 17:39
There are too many problems with the TK magic system

-high power level for the bound spells that exist. Can't reliably cast them on one die, really need 2. This means the casket is really only powering himself and not boosting your magic phase. And the TK need a decent magic phase

-can't heal characters

-can only heal one wound on constructs *per magic phase*. And it might be worse: it might be one wound per unit, not per model. How are units of ushabti supposed to function?

-I hadn't even considered that the base spell *is not an in combat heal*. This basically makes TK broken, IMO. That can't possibly be right. TK need that spell. Naturally your opponent will try to dispell it, but I just don't see TK doing well at all when they can't even heal more than one unit in combat per magic phase (and that for only d3+1!) not when you can have 13 skeletons crumble in a single round. This spell should heal everyone in the radius and only grant the bonus move to people who aren't in combat (obviously). And you're right: this makes it so there is absolutely no reason to take an L2 Liche with nehekaran lore. (Which is retarded, IMO) as the signature spell is basically pointless. What a waste. I was hopeful of the new TK book when I started seeing the rumors but the more closely I look at it the more deeply flawed it appears to be.

This is what I've been saying since we heard about the magic system.

Undead means we crumble and can't march, and magic has to compensate for those problems. Well, our magic is worse at dealing with those problems than before, which is a massive problem. Now, maybe the army will overcome that problem on the table. I hope so.

And that's not even getting to the fact that we've gone from a reliable, consistant army, a concept that was basically the core of what TK were, to being an army hugely dependent on the random rolls of all magic related dice, from spell generation to the winds of magic dice to the possibility of miscast. Just not what TK are supposed to me, or at least what they were and one of the reasons I liked them.

Zoolander
21-04-2011, 18:00
I think you almost have to take either the Titan or the Casket. I took both my last game, check out the BatRep. They really help a lot. I purposely did not mention them as I was focusing on magic and arcane items, but that was my mistake, as they really should have been brought up. Thanks all!

I definitely think taking Light or Death (your choice) for the secondary casters is a good plan.

Skyros, you are correct in many ways. I really wish you could affect people in combat with the Desert Wind. TK really need that.

Corvus, you can use Death. I prefer Light for it's wonderful augments, but Death is good as well. Don't expect *too* many power dice generated, unless you get a purple sun off.

You're right Bac, but these are the times. We just need to work on countering those downsides. For example, in my VC list, I take two vamps with MotBA, to counter any bad dice rolling in the magic phase. We can take the casket and the titan. I was getting most spells off easily in my last game with this setup. However, it's not perfect. There are plenty of flaws in it. Overall, it's not a bad Lore. There are lots of good synergies. However, I think it needed a little bigger boost in power. Maybe if the Desert Wind affected units in combat and allowed charging, all would be good.

Skyros
21-04-2011, 18:07
I was thinking it would maybe still be workable if you could have a couple L2's casting the base signature spell to help aoe heal your units in combat, but that's not going to work.

So...looks like if you want to have a prayer you are down to trying to cast as many spells with your heirophant as possible. He can add 4. Add an average of 2 more with the heirotitan. Does he need the book? That would be adding an average of 7 to every spell cast...or 6 to 8 on every spell cast.

The signature and the blades spell have casting value of 8 and 7, respectively. You could be guaranteed to cast these on one die, if it weren't for the '1 or 2 auto fails and no more casting attempts' issue. (Though why you would take the signature spell is beyond me. I guess it can add wounds to your bunker bowmen units! woo!)

Still, if your L4 can add 6-8 to each casting role maybe he can get some of those higher powered ones off without risking a miscast quite as much by using fewer dice. And you really don't want your heirophant to miscast :D Those two 18+ aoe spells (which you really really want to roll :p) should go off quite comfortably with 4 dice thrown at them.

Say you roll a 7 and then get 2 dice from the casket. If you *have* these spells (hate the random spell generation) then I think a 4 dice aoe smite + 4 dice aoe ward save + 1 die (anything but a 1 or 2!) killing blow is probably the best bet.

Now, investing a TON of points in magic with L4 LHP, titan, and casket. So this had better pay off.

Question: does the +1d3 apply only to *wizards* or can the casket use it as well? If it helps the casket you could always try to one die it with decent chance of success with the +1d3. If the +1d3 applies only to wizards the casket may just be an expensive way of fueling your wizard. A die on the casket is just a die. A die on the heirophant is a die + 6-8.

I will say the presence of a bubble aoe 5+ ward save seems to me to make sword/shield setups for skeletons/tomb guard less attractive.

Skyros
21-04-2011, 18:10
Are the power levels on the BOTUL and Casket and the two heiro bound spells all 5? That irks me to no end.

Why not just say: power level = to what you roll? That would be so much better. If you could throw a die at BOTUL and guarantee the opponent would need to throw a die at it to counter it, that's not so bad. But if you are only going to cast it 1/3 of the time. Meh! So then you need TWO dice. But if he's an L4 he has an excellent chance of dispelling with just one.

GodlessM
21-04-2011, 18:15
I strongly disagree with not taking Nehek on a Liche Priest. He is always going to be able to take the base spell and is a good back up should your High Priest roll crap spells. With Light and Death he may not get any useful spells but with Nehek he will always be garaunteed one; plus two guys trying to cast the default spell means the opponent will have more trouble stopping it.

TheKingInYellow
21-04-2011, 20:57
I think the signature spell is balanced. It AoEs for a very low cost and we are a slow army so it gets you into combat faster and topped up with healing, or if you are playing shooty it moves your units away from combat and heals them too.

I don't get the dislike for this spell at all.

Stymie Jackson
21-04-2011, 21:17
Multiple Desert Winds is I think going to be essential in a TK army that is trying to rely on magic. The first two wizards should probably be Nek lore in a general build I think.

The spell is just too key. It eliminates the slowness of your infantry for that turn, it makes chariots fly across the board, and can get a big unit out of trouble or into position to properly flank next turn. Plus it's the best way to heal your army as it affects multiple units.

Just too important I think...as vital as certain VC spells are and the need to spam it across multiple casters is the same for both armies. And TK can't multiple cast from one caster like VC can so the need for a 2nd caster is I think doubly important. Gonna go with Godless on this one.

Citadel97501
21-04-2011, 21:45
Well,

I personally hadn't realized that Desert Wind couldn't be cast into combat, but all in all I like the Lore and am expecting to take a LHP, and a LP with it that way I can guarantee to get the spells I want.

To be honest I am also really tempted to take a 2nd LP just so I can take the lore of light, if you get lucky on your spells you can get skeletons a x5 to their ws & initiative, or can really screw someone over with Net of Amyntok + Dessication.

Hey, you skaven bell horde, sit their like an idiot. . .

Zoolander
21-04-2011, 22:00
Oh there are plenty of not so good spells in Nehek, and by taking level 2s with the same lore as your LHP, you are bound to get duplicates. Desert Wind can only affect units once, so getting it more than one time with your level 2s is almost worthless. Yes, it is possible to get some other useful spells, but most of the Light ones are useful as well. I don't think either is a wrong choice, but rolling duplicate spells really sucks.

Next combat, I am taking a lvl2 as well and we'll give it go.

Skyros, AFAIK, the Titan only affects wizards - not himself or the casket. Yes, all are BL 5, so two dice are needed. Sucks.

Davemaddocks
21-04-2011, 23:14
Question - I dont have the book infront of me but is the signature spell actually an augment? if it isnt it doesnt heal,

does the lore atribute say how the wounds must be allocated? cant you just heal characters up to full health then add to the rest of the unit?

GodlessM
21-04-2011, 23:49
Desert Wind can only affect units once, so getting it more than one time with your level 2s is almost worthless.

Far from true. Firstly it means you can be lax on the casting and not have to go for the boosted version every time as the two Priests can cast on different units. Secondly if one Priest has his dispelled, you can cast it with the other Priest, i.e. better chance of getting it off. You can't just assume you will always get it off the first try nor that you will always target the same units/go for the boosted version.

Furthermore, the movement part of Desert Wind can only effect units once, however they can still be healed by a second casting.

Zoolander
22-04-2011, 00:20
Far from true. Firstly it means you can be lax on the casting and not have to go for the boosted version every time as the two Priests can cast on different units. Secondly if one Priest has his dispelled, you can cast it with the other Priest, i.e. better chance of getting it off. You can't just assume you will always get it off the first try nor that you will always target the same units/go for the boosted version.

Furthermore, the movement part of Desert Wind can only effect units once, however they can still be healed by a second casting.

Well, the unboosted version is an AoE already, so casting at "different units" is unlikely unless they are across the field from one another. But you are correct, you could use it to heal, or as a backup in case the first one gets dispelled. Good point. I think more testing with that may be in order! The downside to your plan is that it does not affect those in combat, meaning by turn two, you could have a mage twiddling his thumbs unable to do anything, and being a waste of points. Taking a different lore lessens that chance. This next game I will take two mages, both Nehek Lore and see how it plans out.

GodlessM
22-04-2011, 00:22
Not necessarily. You are unlikely to have everything in combat all at the same time all the time, so there'll usually be something to move or heal. Then there's maintenance of the backliners such as Archers and Caskets.

Cxt
22-04-2011, 00:30
Not to mention, while the 2nd mage with Desert Wind will decrease his effectiveness once people around him are in combat, if he allows you to set up your line to your advantage before combat begins, he may still very much be worth it. Also, like Godless said, he can probably still find other units that can use the movement/healing, but even if not it 'may' still be worth having him only be effective for half the game.

GodlessM
22-04-2011, 00:33
I also like to use such cheap characters to slow down enemy advances sometimes. I will taking mine at Level 1 naked so only 70pts, so it's no shame if he can divert some Miners for a turn so then have to wait to charge my SSC. Lord knows my Empire Engineer has gotten quite good at this.

scruffyryan
22-04-2011, 00:44
Does the wording on the base spell allow a reform? If it does TK can do something no other army can do, move first then reform. Thats got to be good for some tricky battlefield behavior.

Citadel97501
22-04-2011, 05:50
Oh there are plenty of not so good spells in Nehek, and by taking level 2s with the same lore as your LHP, you are bound to get duplicates. Desert Wind can only affect units once, so getting it more than one time with your level 2s is almost worthless. Yes, it is possible to get some other useful spells, but most of the Light ones are useful as well. I don't think either is a wrong choice, but rolling duplicate spells really sucks.

Next combat, I am taking a lvl2 as well and we'll give it go.

Skyros, AFAIK, the Titan only affects wizards - not himself or the casket. Yes, all are BL 5, so two dice are needed. Sucks.

I will point out that there is no such thing as duplicate spells in 8th edition, if you roll the same spell you "must" choose a different spell its no longer random.

EDMM
22-04-2011, 06:09
Always take Grand Hierophant Khatep.

There simply aren't any arcane items that compete, and you simply can't risk a miscast on your Hierophant.

Always take a second LHP with Death, kill enemy Wizards before you get into combat.

I don't know how else the army can hope to be competitive.

If the enemy is still dispelling at +4 when you're in combat, it's game over.

Never ever cast a bound spell.

I give this advice, because if you aren't getting +4+d3 on each casting attempt, you're wasting your dice.

Tomb Kings need to make the absolute bloody most of each and every power dice they are granted, so if you're wasting them on their own or with +2 from a regular Liche Priest, you're playing a losing game.

The upped spells for the Lore are incredibly hard to cast. I've made the following table which shows how many dice you need to use, with a level 4 Wizard, in the presence of a Hierotitan to have approximately a 90% chance of casting the spell:

0. Desert Wind
Small 2 dice
Big 4 dice

1. Cursed Blades
Small 2 dice
Big 2 dice

2. Protection
Small 2 dice
Big 5 dice

3. Smiting
Small 2 dice
Big 5 dice

4. Vengenace
Small 2 dice
Big 3 dice

5. Dessication
Small 2 dice
Big 6 dice

6. Skullstorm
Small 4 dice
Big 6 dice

Citadel97501
22-04-2011, 08:33
Always take Grand Hierophant Khatep.

There simply aren't any arcane items that compete, and you simply can't risk a miscast on your Hierophant.

That is an interesting reason to take him, I would like to point out another reason, since he has lore master you can take him to allow you to duplicate spells. Its a trick I love to pull with Teclis, or a Seer-Staff caster with my High Elves, nothing quite like casting a strength 6 banishing 3 times.

I would also point out that spending 1 or 2 dice (depending on bound level 3=1, 5=2) of the H-titan's spirit leach, is a pretty solid tactic as if they don't dispel it they will on average have their character die, possibly also providing you with the dice you just spent, for a net profit. . .

Zoolander
22-04-2011, 09:32
I will point out that there is no such thing as duplicate spells in 8th edition, if you roll the same spell you "must" choose a different spell its no longer random.

Correct. But you must chose a spell that has not already been taken by another wizard... hence the problem. You could end up with some useless spells. Or, you could end up getting all the good ones.

Zoolander
22-04-2011, 09:33
Does the wording on the base spell allow a reform? If it does TK can do something no other army can do, move first then reform. Thats got to be good for some tricky battlefield behavior.

It allows for any movement that can be performed in the remaining moves part of the phase. In other words, no charges. But reforms, yes.

Skyros
22-04-2011, 14:44
Always take Grand Hierophant Khatep.

There simply aren't any arcane items that compete, and you simply can't risk a miscast on your Hierophant.

What does Khatep do?

I thought the arcane item that gave you +4 PD was a good one. Still, you could always take that on your second LHP.

I basically agree with you on bound spells. It's a shame too, because the casket and banner of the undying legion are nice abilities - but GW idiotically made them power level 5, which is a huge handicap and no benefit whatsoever.

Bound spells are terrible in 8th edition. level 5 bound spells are unbelievably awful in 8th edition.

EDMM
22-04-2011, 14:58
Khatep is 330 points.
He has Loremaster. Essential for having the right spells on your Hierophant.
He has a staff that lets him re-roll all of the dice in a casting attempt once per turn. Essential for avoiding miscasts on your Hierophant.
He has a scroll used in place of a dispel that forces the enemy Wizard to take a Toughness test. If the test is failed, Wizard cannot cast any further spells this phase. If the test is failed on a 6, the enemy Wizard takes D3 wounds that cannot be saved by any means. Good, but not great item. Fun against Teclis if he doesn't IF his first spell in a phase.

Skyros
22-04-2011, 15:18
Ah, that does sound pretty useful.

TheDrugLordX
22-04-2011, 15:47
Problem with special characters is just that; they are special characters! They remove all flavor from what is supposed to be my own personal legion with its own fluff. Sure everyone doesn't feel this way but i know alot of people do.

As for the signature spell, its like all other spells in the nehekaran lore; it has its uses when the circumstanes are right. You would not cast the killing blow spell on an archer unit outside of combat, would you? (unless you really really need to heal them obviously lol) As far as the signature spell goes, i see it being most usefull to strike gunlines, where (and if) you need to get into combat quickly. While not gamebreaking on your skellie hordes, ressurecting them as they approach gunines is actually important. For the little more faster units (chariots, snake surfers, carrior) setting up for criticall charges can be gamedecisive. Against combat armies i do not see as much use for the signatue spell and i'm therefore not convinced i would swap any of my rolled spells for it.

Sorry for my grammar, first time typing on an ipad :)

Sure the lore can not play on par with the games more destructive spells (dwellers, purple sun, 13th) but the synergy with the rest of the book is fantastic. TK can be played many different ways because of how they designed this book and the nehekaran lore (the other two lores aswell) is a big part of why we can do this.

Asymmetric
22-04-2011, 16:45
Whats Khatep's defences like?

EDMM
22-04-2011, 16:48
Not a thing. But I'd rather keep my Hierophant safe from miscasts and vulnerable to combat than the other way around.

Asymmetric
22-04-2011, 16:52
Not a thing. But I'd rather keep my Hierophant safe from miscasts and vulnerable to combat than the other way around.

Probably true ...

Can't put him and a king in at 2k though which rules him out for my normal list, but he seems a strong choice at other points lvls.

Skyros
22-04-2011, 17:23
Have the costs for a king changed at all?

Zoolander
22-04-2011, 17:44
Have the costs for a king changed at all?

Just the cost of their chariot, which went down 5 pts.