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Gav2k
21-04-2011, 11:48
Yup - another one! Between BaSe's "How many times do you change your mind?" thread and Gharnukk's "Beastmen VS Tomb Kings" thread I've been thinking about my next army after Wood Elves more and more.
Gharnukk's thread had a lot of good feedback and advice on helping to make his decision - and while I appreciate that not everyone likes giving such advice - I'm hoping to get a similar amount of feedback.

Not only that, but I like the comparison of Armies in general - I feel it promotes good conversation and an appreciation of other peoples collections amongst the community :)

My dilemma revolves around the Beastmen and the Daemons of Chaos. I'll post my list of Pros and Cons which relate to my personal opinions and situation regarding both armies:

BEASTMEN:
Pros
- Brutal, savage, beastly. I love their imagery, and their sheer brutality.
- Straitforward playstyle. I'm not the most capable General, so I need basic battleplans if I have any hope of winning.
- S4 T4 Gors with Beastbanner. Add on some Beast-Sig-Spell buffs and these guys are SOLID.
- I frequent the Herdstone, I know a lot of basic-theory when it comes to this army. Plus the Herdstone is an active and helpful community.

Cons
- Most lists seem very samey, little variation.
- Little-to-no armour.
- No Rare models (not including Spawn or Giant), and they're not particularly good on the tabletop (Ghorgon has a small fanbase though)
- Considered a low-mid tier army. As said before, I'm not the most capable General, I need all the help I can get.
__________________________________________________ ____________

DAEMONS
Pros
- Again, their imagery. You can't kill them, they're always there, and they're ALWAYS a threat.
- From what I understand, they also have a simplistic playstyle, with a few tricks thrown in.
- Great variation in models.
- Armywide Ward Saves.
- Army has the majority of it's models.
- Most lists I've seen don't use Nurgle very much (Nurgle is my least favourite God)
- Seen as a Mid-High tier army.
- Can be used as a 40k army if I feel the need to go back to that system.
- I already have the Army Book.

Cons
- I'm not overly familiar with their style of play. Any communities I find on the Daemons are either based on 40k, or are very... empty.
- I'm still not sold on the "Interdimensional Teaparty" that the four Gods like to have on occasion. I love the idea of mixing units of different Gods, but from a fluff-standpoint I'm finding it difficult to justify.
- Could be called cheesy.
- No Battalion boxset.

I think that's it... A bit of a long-winded post, sorry! Thanks very much for reading, and thanks in advance for any feedback given!

Cheers
Gav

Rosstifer
21-04-2011, 11:56
Competitive Daemons are boring as all hell. Usually have 3 Blocks of Lesser Daemons, 2 of Horrors and 1 of Bloodletters. Some Heralds. Maybe a Fiend or 2, if they're feeling reeeealy adventurous. Mid-Tier Daemons are much more fun to play with and against.

Gav2k
21-04-2011, 11:58
Perhaps I should note - I wouldnt be going for a WAAC list, I usually go for the units I like, so i think my Daemons list would be decidedly mid-tier :p

Rosstifer
21-04-2011, 12:01
In that case it makes your choice much harder =D. Both are fun armies, both have cool models. Especially Bloodcrushers. Wish mine were on square bases.....

Memnos
21-04-2011, 12:05
As a long time Beasts fan, you might be surprised to hear this, but:

Depends.

Daemons are by far the simplest army. No need for a lot of tricks. It's better for pure straightforwardness.

Beastmen are, however, more consistent.

With all those rerolls and a herdstone guaranteeing a minimum number of dice, the Beastmen will generally perform as you expect in any given situation. They can flee as well.

Daemons are much more fire and forget.

dragonet111
21-04-2011, 12:22
My favorite thing in my daemon army is the minis. I love them.

If you go for daemons (BTW it's a good idea they are awesome :)) remember to plan carefully the building of your units. I don't have plastic daemonettes but Horrors and Bloodletters are really hard to rank.

Tactically my army is pretty strait forward but I have fun (my friends play high elves and dwarfs).

Gav2k
21-04-2011, 12:29
I don't have plastic daemonettes[
I wouldnt get plastic Daemonettes either, i'd find the old metal ones on eBay. Guess thats a Con for Daemons seeing as id need to go to extra effort for older minis?

Loving the feedback so far everyone, thanks! Keep it up!
:p

TheWarmaster
21-04-2011, 12:34
- Most lists I've seen don't use Nurgle very much (Nurgle is my least favourite God)

Mortarion was here, he told me he didn't like you either.

-

:D

Anyway, I think Beastmen are cooler of the two, both modelwise and... well.
I've heard the CoD used to be the army when it came to cheese. Did I mention I didn't like the daemon models? Anyway, that's the best I can say to help. Beastmen models are better than the Daemons.

dragonet111
21-04-2011, 12:40
I have metal daemonettes I don't use maybe I should put them on ebay :D

VenomBlood
21-04-2011, 12:41
DoC .

It's not a horde army, so it's cheaper.
Enormous number of colour themes in one army, easily.
Lots of oop metals that still looks right with current plastic range.
Plastic bloodcrushers... Just think of it... plastic....

But nevermind. I collect both armies.:D

mrtn
21-04-2011, 12:48
I'd go for the army with the coolest models, that's my usual advice. :)
Personally I like most of the daemon units on their own, but I don't like the rainbow look of the army, so if I start a daemon army I'll go for a different painting scheme.

That's another point in favour of beastmen, they can come in all the colours of the rainbow, and some extra. For daemons you can't really paint your bloodletters blue without getting weird looks, I fear.

Gav2k
21-04-2011, 13:05
Well both armies have models i love and models i hate:
Lets see...

Love -
Wargors, Doombull, Gors, Bestigors, Centigors, Malagor, Morghur. (7 Beasts)
Skulltaker, Masque, Changeling, Greater Daemons of Khorne Tzeentch and Slaanesh, Bloodletters, (old) Daemonettes, Flamers, Bloodcrushers (10 Daemons)


Hate -
Pumbagor, harpies, ungors, chariots (4 beasts)
Anything nurgle, seekers, the Rare slaanesh quadrapeds. (About... 7 daemons?)

If wee subtract Hate from Love, Beasts have a score of 3, Daemons have a score of 3 :o

Rosstifer
21-04-2011, 13:48
Wow you don't like the Ungor? I love those little guys!

VenomBlood
21-04-2011, 13:52
I don't get it: why people hate current daemonetts? :wtf:
Don't get me wrong, I have both old and new, and I think that newer ones fit better in RoC theme.

@mrtn: You can paint bloodletters in all shades of blood (from arterial to venous blood). You can paint them black. You can paint them blue: Changeling and his helpful unit of horrors comes to mind. You can paint them rotten: call them pusletters and add bloated guts.:cheese:

Wade Wilson
21-04-2011, 14:00
I collect daemons myself. Not a competative player at all and i love the choices avaialble in the codex. Theres maybe 2-3 units i wouldnt use..the rest are pure gold...or at least darkest obsidian. Daemon Princes are a bit of a joke though which is a real shame as the plastic model kits are fab with plenty of options.

The plastic bloodcrushers are fantastic.

Metal Fiends of Slaanesh look a bit daft...but gamewise there are few fast nastier around...

Gav2k
21-04-2011, 14:07
Dunno why I dont like Ungors... guess I'm a Gor at heart and see them as unworthy ;-P

I think I'd probably keep them as their original colours... I don't have the skill to pull of Blue Bloodletters of Tzeench (or Red Horrors of Khorne! How would that work!?)

VenomBlood
21-04-2011, 14:17
Horrors in form of Pink Bloodletters lead by Changeling - a good scheme to make Khorne insane. :mad::mad::evilgrin:

blackraven
21-04-2011, 14:30
personally i like daemons

at 3000 points i like to tag team 2 daemon princes of khorne with a block of 40 bloodletters with bloodcrushers and tzeentch support

Gav2k
21-04-2011, 15:27
VenomBlood's idea made me chuckle. See, with Daemons, anything is possible. And that's a big plus for them.
Beastmen are just marauding...beast...men... which is cool! But I like the idea of something... extra-terrestrial... and daemony...

But i still like Beastmen! ARGH! If only you could still use Allied rules!

mrtn
21-04-2011, 15:41
Strangely enough beastmen are actually more likely to mutate than daemons (which most of the time don't have a corporeal body to acquire a mutation), so if you like tentacles and strange bits, then beastmen is your thing. Older fluff describes beastmen much more mutated than the recent one, it's full of dogheads and extra arms and stuff, so if you want you can really go to town. My army is full of mutations and beastmen made from other animals than goats.

Gav2k
21-04-2011, 15:48
Strangely enough beastmen are actually more likely to mutate than daemons (which most of the time don't have a corporeal body to acquire a mutation), so if you like tentacles and strange bits, then beastmen is your thing. Older fluff describes beastmen much more mutated than the recent one, it's full of dogheads and extra arms and stuff, so if you want you can really go to town. My army is full of mutations and beastmen made from other animals than goats.

I wasn't meaning mutations so much as something completely...alien and horrific to the world. You have a good point though.
Problem is, im horrible at modelling. I'm average at painting, though. So i guess whichever army is easier to paint gets a point?

VenomBlood
21-04-2011, 15:56
Oh, I've just forgotten one tip: issues with ranking up units of bloodletters and horrors. There is quite twisted decision - use round bases for models not in the front rank. It's so insignificant on regimental tray, and you will have a couple of daemons ready for 40k. Not to mention bloodcrushers and magnets....


So i guess whichever army is easier to paint gets a point?
DoC
Beastmen have too much belts, skulls, badges, armor, horns (a painful if painted properly).
Daemons are fast to paint. It's a wash army.

Jind_Singh
21-04-2011, 17:14
When I started playing Warhammer again, after a massive break, I love LOVED Daemons for pretty much the same reasons as you - nice models, nice images - good times were had by all!

I collected a 3500 Khorne army, a 3500 Slaanesh army, and had some Nurgle/Tzeentch units.

How I loathe them now! I still love the models, the images of Chaos - BUT I am SOOOO BORED with the armies!

They get VERY static after a while, different games just mean different terrain set ups, new opponents, but the games play out the same almost.

It's a reliable army, ITP, won't break, move fast, hit hard, can take punches back with their ward saves, solid magic, solid items to buff characters & units - reasonable points cost, and they scale well to 8th ed rules.

But my is it dull! The Khorne army just runs at the enemy and gets stuck into combat - but they take MASSIVE damage from shooting before they make it into combat - from were they just hack their way to victory.
The Slaanesh army is SUPER fast, lots of great spells (if your really bad you can take items /characters to reduce enemy leadership to make the spells even worse), but then they get into combat and are not effective - the low strength means it's hard to score the kills sometimes.
Nurgle is just a plain slow army and doesn't have many tricks up it's sleeves, especially now they can ONLY use their Ward save OR their regeneration, not both.
Tzeentch was always about blasting people with either magic or Flamers - either way the opponent was not in for a good time facing heavy Tzeentch lists.

You could mix the powers up for a cosmic Tea Party - but then your army not only loses theme it becomes EVEN HARDER for the enemy to overcome!

But the saving grace is 8th ed rules now mean opponents will have decent chances of knocking down your daemonic hordes - but you, yourself, will have amazing times with this army for about 6 months before you start getting jaded by it.

Stick with Beastmen - the fact that they can panic, break from combat, have to worry about fear/terror alone makes them worthwhile - as you'll be engaged mentally a lot more during the game.

The fact that there is no easy way to build a list and use them means you'll be mentally stimulated all the time.

And then they (Hopefully) should be getting new releases down the road, which is always exciting, and they have a battalion box already.

And check out the Tomb kings or Beastmen thread - you'll see lots of notes about why I think Beastmen are great!

CaliforniaGamer
21-04-2011, 17:18
Mono Daemons.

Pure Slannesh with 2 converted up loremaster tzeentch casters with shadow.

ASF blocks with 2A per, rerolling to hit, Str8 with Mindrazor.....Shudder...

for extra fun, model your Greater Daemon as a "Human Centipede" per that Dutch guy's movie...may lead to tournament explusion tho...

popisdead
21-04-2011, 21:49
Beastmen are fun to play and more fun to beat people with. "but Beastmen suck, you were suppose to lose."

Rosstifer
22-04-2011, 00:07
Beastmen are fun to play and more fun to beat people with. "but Beastmen suck, you were suppose to lose."

Thats the usual reaction to a- My magic phase and b- My Bestigor smacking something in the face.

Gav2k
22-04-2011, 09:37
Lots of good opinions here. As it stands Beasts are winning with over 60% of the votes!

Being an underdog army does add a point to the Beasties, too. But i always play underdog armies! (Woodies, Necrons, Daemonhunters) and i lose far more often than i win. Id like to start winning, dammit!

(Winning isnt how i get fun from games, i have fun losing too, but sometimes you want to win, right?)