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Citadel97501
22-04-2011, 05:47
Hello all,

I was working out a list for a small tourney of 1250 with no special characters, and I decided to make a run down between the magical weapons to see what works best for my Chaos Lord.

(Note for the reader: Extra attacks does seem to work best, however that is probably due to the scrub section weighing things in that direction.)

My comparison was to run his attacks with the weapon against a type of enemy unit, and then to compare results, eventually I added the statistics together to figure out which is best from an all comers point of view. Now some items such as "The other trickster's shard", could throw these numbers off but not by much.

I have also divided these up between 50+ points, and lower than 50+.

vs. Chaos Warriors, with the Mark of Tzeentch
Sword of Bloodshed: 1.51
Giant Blade: 1.81
Chaos Runesword: 1.84
Aether Sword: 1.4

Sword of Swift Slaying: 1.2
Axe of Khorne: 1.8
Sword of Strife: 1.3
Rending Sword: 1.2

vs. Empire Spearmen
Sword of Bloodshed: 4.4
Giant Blade: 2.7
Chaos Runesword: 3.33
Aether Sword: 2.7

Sword of Swift Slaying: 3.6
Axe of Khorne: 2.7
Sword of Strife: 3.8
Rending Sword: 3.2

vs. Steam Tank
Sword of Bloodshed: 0.43
Giant Blade: 0.54
Chaos Runesword: 0.49
Aether Sword: 0.82

Sword of Swift Slaying: 0.27
Axe of Khorne: 0.41
Sword of Strife: 0.38
Rending Sword: 0.5

Totals
Sword of Bloodshed: 6.34
Giant Blade: 5.05
Chaos Runesword: 5.66
Aether Sword: 4.92

Sword of Swift Slaying: 5.07
Axe of Khorne: 4.91
Sword of Strife: 5.48
Rending Sword: 4.9

If anyone wants me to, and asks politely enough I can check other weapons as well.

danny-d-b
22-04-2011, 07:23
how about an exalted with great weapon and 4+ ward save + the warriors you could get with the saved points?

AMWOOD co
22-04-2011, 07:38
Not sure why you limited yourself to the Sword of Strife. You could use the Sword of Bloodshed.

Anyway, here's the numbers for 3 more. Sword of Bloodshed, Giant Blade, and Chaos Runesword. These all assume the character has no other bonuses (eg. He's not Frenzied). Format will be:
Weapon: (Kills vs Tzeentchi Warrios) + (vs. Spearmen) + (vs. Steamtank) = Total

Sword of Bloodshed: 1.58 + 4.44 + 0.59 = 6.61
Giant Blade: 1.85 + 2.77 + 0.46 = 5.09
Chaos Runesword: 1.85 + 3.33 + 0.33 = 5.52

I don't think this is the best representation of an all comers character, however, as your method heavily favours whoever can get the most kills on the spearmen.

Citadel97501
22-04-2011, 07:48
how about an exalted with great weapon and 4+ ward save + the warriors you could get with the saved points?

1) Why on earth would you ever give an exalted hero a GW?

2) There is a reason I give all of my Exalted Heroes, ASF, with their initiative its always a good buy.

3) Occasionally the point level forces you to make hard choices, do you really want 3 wizards, or do you want an Arch-Mage, and 2 exalted heroes? I usually go that route but due to the odd point total, I was looking at a Chaos Lord, and a single Chaos Sorcerer.

4) If you want to you can use the information for determining how good at offense a build is, for instance the Chaos Rune Sword might look good but its not worth its price vs. something like the +3 attack sword, or even the Rending Sword.

Citadel97501
22-04-2011, 07:54
Thanks AMWOOD, I will include the others I think I just skipped them because they were pretty solidly Lord only choices, because for some reason people think the anti-armor swords are worth it but the others aren't. I will add them to the original post.

With Spear-men it basically means toughness 3, armor save 5+, no ward save.
-Maybe I should have written that as elf, lol. . .

Rosstifer
22-04-2011, 07:55
I don't suppose you could pretty please run the numbers for a Khorne Lord with Helm of Many Eyes and the Sword of Bloodshed? I would do it myself but I suck at maths....

Dark Reaper
22-04-2011, 07:56
1) Because usually an exalted hero has to choose between protection and offense, having only 50pts to spend on magic items. Giving him a great weapon and a defensive item circumvents this at the cost of initiative.

4) The Runesword makes you ws9 and therefore makes ws4 opponents hit you on a 5+, which should also be taken into consideration.

Edit: An answer to this:


1) Why on earth would you ever give an exalted hero a GW?

2) There is a reason I give all of my Exalted Heroes, ASF, with their initiative its always a good buy.

3) Occasionally the point level forces you to make hard choices, do you really want 3 wizards, or do you want an Arch-Mage, and 2 exalted heroes? I usually go that route but due to the odd point total, I was looking at a Chaos Lord, and a single Chaos Sorcerer.

4) If you want to you can use the information for determining how good at offense a build is, for instance the Chaos Rune Sword might look good but its not worth its price vs. something like the +3 attack sword, or even the Rending Sword.

Citadel97501
22-04-2011, 08:56
I don't suppose you could pretty please run the numbers for a Khorne Lord with Helm of Many Eyes and the Sword of Bloodshed? I would do it myself but I suck at maths....

No Problem. . .
I am not adding it to the big one up above though since it includes frenzy, and asf. I would also remind you that Stupid (Helm of Many Eyes) already makes you immune to psychology. Oh and here is another option for kicks. .

Khorne Lord with Helm of Many Eyes, and the Sword of Blood Shed
vs. WOC: 2.3
vs. Spearmen equivalent:6.68
Vs. STANK: 0.49
TOTAL: 9.47

Khorne Lord with Sword of Striking
vs. WOC: 1.43
vs. Spear-men equivalent: 4.175
vs. STANK: 0.327
TOTAL: 5.99

Rosstifer
22-04-2011, 09:09
So far and away the best damage output BUT, and this is a big but, He'd be pretty fragile. Wondering whether to take him in a 3k game I have coming up.

vcassano
22-04-2011, 09:59
The problem with all this - and the work is much appreciated - is that Chaos characters are pushed into combat with characters most of the time, not troops. Indeed, most of the time I'd say it is a waste when they fight lowly infantry.

Rosstifer
22-04-2011, 10:43
What would be best for killing Characters? Ogre Blade and Talisman of Preservation? My Exalted BSB has a 3++ and AHW and has been surprisingly good at killing Characters so far.

danny-d-b
22-04-2011, 11:07
axe of khone and the talasman of presivation
if your bothering to take a lord at all

vcassano
22-04-2011, 11:36
axe of khone and the talasman of presivation
if your bothering to take a lord at all

Pretty much - S6 is the sweet spot for armour penetration in my opinion and killing blow is nice. If you are Tzeentch then I'd go Talisman of Endurance, Helm of Many Eyes and Axe of Khorne but otherwise this is good (with dragonhelm for unmounted lords)

Rosstifer
22-04-2011, 12:28
Fair enough, I'll keep this in mind for 3k games.

Citadel97501
22-04-2011, 22:39
Pretty much - S6 is the sweet spot for armour penetration in my opinion and killing blow is nice. If you are Tzeentch then I'd go Talisman of Endurance, Helm of Many Eyes and Axe of Khorne but otherwise this is good (with dragonhelm for unmounted lords)

That is a really nasty build, (with bad Chinese accent) You have earned my respect grasshopper.

(Sorry came to mind after watching some really bad Asian cinema lately and I thought it was funny. . . )

AMWOOD co
23-04-2011, 06:24
Axe of Khorne, Sword of Bloodshed or Chaos Runesword, and the Other Trickster's Shard. If you're mounted with a shield you already have a 1+ armour save (or just mounted on a Jugger), and you now are denying the enemy that valuable Ward Save and dishing out considerable killing power.