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Kelvan
22-04-2011, 20:24
Release date: August/September

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First wave:

5 plastic kits:
- Warriors (upgraded sprue with new options + orange, red, green rods - 10 per box)
- Immortals (40mm base, bigger with "bling", models better than some new DE stuff - 5 per box)
- Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers (torso is changed, one kit with lots of options - 1 per box)
- Necromancer (Eldar Wraithlord style - 1 per box)
- Tomb Spyders (3 different builds - 1 per box)

few blisters:
- metal lord on foot with staff of light

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Second wave:
- Lord retinue
- Crypteks
- Wraiths (plastic kit - 5 per box)
- Gauss artillery platform with crew or MC/Vehicle type thing (plastic kit)

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First set of rumours: based on Necrons2011, Ghost21, Tabitha posts

Rules:
WBB is basically FNP but not exactly.
Phase out is redone
Necrons are a lot cheaper.
Necrons teleporting abilities are far more superior than GK.
Necrons will get lot of new things.

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Weapons / Wargear:
Not all gauss weapons are rending.
Warscythes remain unchanged.
Resurrection orb is more powerful.
Lot of the old wargear options were removed. However, now they act as special abilities or items owned by special characters.
New wargear will be similar to DE HQ
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HQ:

No C'tans

There are 6 named characters.

Special Character Lords:
The Enfleshed - Flayed Ones become Troops
The Undying - Immortals become Troops
The Silent King ? (from SM codex)
The Voidbringer ? (from FoD)
The Stormcaller ? (from FoD)
The Harbinger of Night ? (from apo formations)

(one of them is 240 pts worth, cc specialist vs 2+)

Special Character - this guy can use electrical discharge towards enemy Psykers.
Special Character - Cryptek can have technological upgrades, rulewise is close to old Pariahs.

Random Lords

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Elites: - nasty special rules

Flayed Ones
Immortals - s2+
Pariahs - overhaul into Lord retinue. However they are not working like wolf guards.

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Troops:

Warriors - no sergeants, primes and so on, special rules for whole squads, possible C'tans mark system accordingly to colourful rods. Minions of Outsider are tainted by his insanity.
Scarab Swarms

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Fast Attack:

Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers - significant drop of point cost, several weapon options (vs s2+, vs hordes)
Wraiths - jump infantry, 18" charge, are harsh.

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Heavy Support:

Monolith - remains expensive. However, Living metal rule is changing towards better.
Tomb Spyders - MC, 3 different builds (CC, Shooting, Support).
Necromancer - MC, no squadrons, can be fielded as Elite or HS, high T but not enough vs plasma or melta, Resurrection, Warscythe, lot of weapon options. It has a mechanised skeletal torso housing a suspended crystal.
Sky Barge/Chariot - Heavy support platform, which can be mounted by character. Provides bonus to character.
MC/Vehicle type thing (Obelisk/Gauss Obliterator/Gauss artillery platform with crew) - 48” range, less powerful than Manticore, looks stupid and out of Necron theme.

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Second set of rumours: based on Yakface posts and BOK

Rules:
All units in army have LD 10.
All units in the army benefit from the new WBB rule.
WBB - now it is save 5+ working like FNP without influence of double strength and AP2 or AP1. However, save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken.
Ever-Living - unit can make 5+ WBB save even if is wiped out.
Phase out is gone.
Wraiths, Tomb Spyders, Scarab Swarms are Fearless.
Necron vehicles besides the Monolith are open-topped skimmers.
Quantum Shielding - gives open topped skimmers 2+ armour for front & side armor until vehicle takes its first glance/pen
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Weapons / Wargear:
Heat Ray - working like melta or flamer depending which is needed.
Gauss - this type of weapons on a roll of 6' to hit cause auto-glance on a penetration roll. There is no auto-wound regardless of T. No rending.
Gauss Cannon - Assault 2 S6 AP3.
Gauss Flux Arc - Each Arc fires separately and can hit four different targets.
Tesla - this type of weapons on a roll of 6' to hit cause two more hits.
Tesla Heavy Cannon - has a chance of hitting all other units close to the target; both friend and foe.
Doomsday Cannon - 72" S9 AP1 Heavy1 Large Blast.
There are items which gives abilities similar to SS erode armor or Ctan powers.
There are many technological upgrades for Crypteks.
Resurrection Orb can be technological upgrade too and decrease roll on WBB rule from 5+ to 4+. However it affects only unit it is in.
Veil of Darkness is technological upgrade which is nerfed. Now units cannot be pulled out of combat. However, VoD carried by one of named Lords works normal.
Warscythe is a +2 Strength power weapon (that no longer ignores invulnerable saves).

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HQ:

No C'tans

There are 6 named characters.
Special Characters unlocks bodyguard unit of Crypteks

Necron Overlord - <100 points IC, T5, 3W,
- Unlocks bodyguard unit of Crypteks, which can be split off before the game to lead units of Necrons
- Can be mounted in personal transport < 200 points, A11 11, 10 with quantum shielding which is removed after first glance/pen. Can spend W to repair damages.

Wargear: Staff of Light, Warscythe (S7, power weapon), gauntlet with flamer, doubleswords (more expensive than WS), ResOrb, Phylactery, Phase shifter (3+ inv), can upgrade armour to 2+. Branishackles, similar to Grey Knights grenades with the effect to make units attack their own. Necron Hunter Killer Missile, S8+ AP3+ Large Blast (expensive).

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Elites:

Flayed Ones - cheaper, 3A, s4+

Pariahs - gone

Necromancer - have Heat Ray. Any unit hit by Necromancer is marked. All other Necrons shooting at this target count as having twin-linked weapons for that turn.

C'tan Avatars - number/squad: 1, no 0-1, <200 - 505 points with all upgrades.
Stats similar to previous, 4+ inv. MC, Eternal Warrior, Fearless, abilities varies from 10 – 50 pts.
- Assault attack - based Jaws of the World Worlf [pass initiative test or die]
- Assault upgrade – grants stealth, assault and defensive granades.
- Shooting attack – S4 Large blast
- Shooting attack – S4 Assault 8
- Lightning Arc – 24” S9 AP2 – seems same as before
- Gaze of Death – changed to S3, now any kill restore wound, not cumulative.
- Etheric Tempest – changed to everything moving with C'tans assault range is treated like moving in difficult/dangerous terrain
- Grand Illusion – allow to redeploy 1D3 units after scout moves
- All Melta/Flamer weapons in 12” have “get hot” rule
- Erodes enemy armor as scarabs (cheap option)
- Entire battlefield difficult terrain is treated like dangerous terrain.
From new fluff: After Necron enslaving, the C'Tans were killed off by the raged Necrons which now use shards of their power to create Avatars, however some of them may be still alive but not useful in game (Nighbringer, Deceiver, Outsider, Dragon).

Sniper unit - can Deep Strike into play normally or it can choose to immediately Deep Strike immediately after the opponent brings an enemy unit on from Reserves. They have some nasty additional damage ability against one nominated unit.

CC unit - expensive, S5/T5/3+save, Warscythes.

Jump Infantry unit - S5/T5/3+save, for very close range shooting and good in CC.

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Troops:

Warriors - 12 points, same statline except s4+.

Immortals - 17 points, same statline except T4.

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Fast Attack:

Destroyers - jump infantry, can be upgraded to heavy destroyers.

Tomb Blades - jetbike unit.

Wraiths - 40 points, WS4 BS4 S6 T4 W2 I? A2 LD10 2+/3++ or inv only
Number squad: 1-6, Jump Infantry, Wraithflight, Fearless, Rending, Weapons: Whips (allow to strrike first), Pistol S6 (10 points), Exiler H1 Pistol (15 points) (pass a strength test or die).

Scarab Swarms - cheap, Fearless, move like beasts, erodes enemy armor when they get into combat with it. Armour save of any non-vehicle model wounded but not killed is removed for the rest of the game. Armour value of any vehicle hit on 4+ is decreased by point on all facings. If armour value of any facing is reduced to zero, then vehicle is destroyed.

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Heavy Support:

Tomb Spyders - Fearless
Monolith - Power Matrix WBB Monolith Power Matrix cannot pull out unit from combat, Each Gauss Flux Arc fires separately and can hit four different targets.
There are 6 new vehicles include 2 transport vehicles and flyers:
1. Transport vehicle: open-topped, skimmer, quantum shield, can carry 15 necrons.
2. Transport vehicle: open-topped, skimmer, quantum shield, can carry 10 necrons. Can recover casualties to a unit and use WBB on any unit.
One of these two transports is personal transport for the Lord and his retinue.
Jump pack unit count as 2 models.
Jetbike count as 5 models.
3. Vehicle which carry Doomsday Cannon - open-topped, skimmer, quantum shield.
Flyers can move at cruising speed and fire all their weapons.

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Additionally from Bindi Baji:

Pariahs are not squated.
Armour save 2+ on Immortals is not confirmed.
One thing in Yakface rumours is wrong but "the rest sounds plausible".
Necromancer is unlikely to be in the first wave.


From mine point of view:

We have two sets of rumours. Still we don't know which one is correct. I am sure that in a few weeks we will find it out.

We were told that one lord with staff was done long time ago but was unreleased. IMO it would be that one: http://kelvan.w.interii.pl/Necron%20Lord.jpg

We were told there will be about 3-6 new Necron vehicles. My first though was about Obelisk which has rules however, dont have model yet. You can see ready homemade model here: http://kelvan.w.interii.pl/Obelisk.JPG.

My second though was related to two informations that Necrons are basically Tomb Kings in space (theme) and two of new vehicles were based on Jes Goodwin sketches. Lets find out which.

1. First one is Death Barque with one big cannon and two minor guns. http://kelvan.w.interii.pl/1.%20Death%20Barque.jpg

IMO it looks stupid, especially this big skull at the front. This sketch could fit with Tabitha rumours of MC/Vehicle type thing which is out of Necron theme.

2. Second one is War Barque which looks like hovering Rhino which portal at its front. http://kelvan.w.interii.pl/2.%20War%20Barque.jpg

3. Here we have War Altars with guns and portals at their front. http://kelvan.w.interii.pl/3.%20War%20Altars.jpg I think it was prototype of the Monolith an we won't see it.

4. Funeral Barque. This one looks like combination of heavy support and mobile portal warmachine. http://kelvan.w.interii.pl/4.%20Warmachine%20with%20Portal.jpg

Here is the ready homemade model http://storage.canalblog.com/11/30/731795/53057450.jpg

5. Last one is simple Barge style warmachine with crew. This one looks like Fast Heavy Support platform with crew mentioned in FOD.
http://kelvan.w.interii.pl/5.%20Warmachine.jpg

Due to Monolith we all used to think that Necrons vehicles don't have any crew or mounted steermans. However, first sketches say something else and if we combine this knowledge with informations obtained from FOD I think we can expect that few vehicles from these sketches for sure would be at new Necron codex.

Azazyll
22-04-2011, 21:32
wasn't there a pretty strong rumor of some kind of new jump infantry? Or are we only collecting Ghost's rumors?

That would also make sense with the current dearth of FA options.

ghost21
22-04-2011, 22:03
id add the jump infantry n other things ive not seem all are rumors are they not, in adition aug is probably the release date ,

you missed the gauss artillery platform with crew

Tabitha
22-04-2011, 22:37
To be honest I don't play necrons, and I think the jump like infantry guys are...um plastic wraiths. Actually pretty sure of it. My mistake.

PreacherBoyRoy
22-04-2011, 22:56
However when the new jump infantry rumor surfaced it was indicated that they would be Warrior size, so it still could be a new unit.

Tabitha
22-04-2011, 23:15
Go check who wrote those.

I was just wrong.

Its plastic wraiths.

PreacherBoyRoy
22-04-2011, 23:18
Still good news.

TimLeeson
22-04-2011, 23:23
plastic wraiths is exactly what I want! I wonder if they'll have any variant units as has been the trend of recent (grey knights, tomb kings)

Vhalyar
23-04-2011, 00:34
To be honest I don't play necrons, and I think the jump like infantry guys are...um plastic wraiths. Actually pretty sure of it. My mistake.

To confirm, this description...

New fast attack unit that finally gives Necron’s some non MC melee options. Look kinda like flayed ones. They have an 18” charge with their special ability. Think jump infantry with special rules. 5 per box
...is of the Wraiths?

KarlPedder
23-04-2011, 02:30
Well have to say only 2 new units is a little meh Dark Eldar got Fighter, Bomber, Court and Harlequins and they needed their whole existing range redone, Tyranids got/will get 7new units through 5 releases seems kind of lame since Necrons don't get transports and they had the lowest number of units as it was....

Tabitha
23-04-2011, 03:04
Necron's are getting lots of new things...

I was just mistaken about that one.

Charistoph
23-04-2011, 03:22
Getting a lot of new things is not surprising, they have little to begin with at this point. Of course, I could say that about my Tau.

grmpf
23-04-2011, 03:25
To confirm, this description...

Originally Posted by Tabitha
New fast attack unit that finally gives Necron’s some non MC melee options. Look kinda like flayed ones. They have an 18” charge with their special ability. Think jump infantry with special rules. 5 per box

...is of the Wraiths?

Will they really be 5 per box? And first wave or later?

Souleater
23-04-2011, 06:22
Well have to say only 2 new units is a little meh Dark Eldar got Fighter, Bomber, Court and Harlequins and they needed their whole existing range redone, Tyranids got/will get 7new units through 5 releases seems kind of lame since Necrons don't get transports and they had the lowest number of units as it was....

I'd rather see GW give us a few good new kits than waste a release slot on garbage (Pyrovore) or fail to release a key model (Tervigon).

Necron are in the fortunate position that a lot of our models are still good. It would be nice to have certain ones in plastic.

As you say DE needed their entire range redone and had to wait longer for it. The Tyranids got more kits but it was very hit and miss. Pyrovore is lovely but that's the only reason to buy it; the Tervigon would have sold very well but still hasn't been realease a year after release.

I also echo the comments that GW may be trying to move more towards multi-function boxes to save on shelf space (a la TK and GK). This would be a good move for us and GW, IMO.

A friend of mine has just started GK -so far I think he's bought the same box five or six times. That might be a tad dull but he's had all the weapon options he needs to build his squads the way he wants - no chasing ebay auctions or combing bits stores.

Shamana
23-04-2011, 08:26
How exactly are the flayed ones harlequin counterparts, btw? I can't imagine them having 5+ initiative and a poor invulnerable save, so I guess they compensate with high attack numbers and rending?

Also, wasn't the Stormcaller the Necron lord on Medusa who got punished by the Deceiver for his "incompetence" after the Necron players lost the campaign?

Warpcrafter
23-04-2011, 08:44
No pictures yet? I am so eager for pictures.

Max1mum
23-04-2011, 09:25
It would suprise me if that list of units is complete. It seems so...short.

Only 2 troop options ?

Only 3 elites ?

Only 2 fast attack choices ?

It seems so boring stilll...

Combat Emu
23-04-2011, 10:34
@Maximum: This is only what is known so far :rolleyes:
Of course you could just add some random stuff to the list, but that wouldn't help anyone, would it?

Also 5 posts above yours:


Necron's are getting lots of new things...

BramGaunt
23-04-2011, 11:11
No pictures yet? I am so eager for pictures.

You'll have to wait at least 2 months for these.

KarlPedder
23-04-2011, 11:34
Necron's are getting lots of new things...

I was just mistaken about that one. So the Necromancer/giant thing and the Artillery unit aren't the only truly new units?

philbrad2
23-04-2011, 11:36
WARNING I've already deleted thread on this that went OT


Keep to rumours please.

PhilB
:chrome:
+++WS Mod Team +++

Kelvan
23-04-2011, 12:57
Ok I updated summary post.


How exactly are the flayed ones harlequin counterparts, btw? I can't imagine them having 5+ initiative and a poor invulnerable save, so I guess they compensate with high attack numbers and rending?

Also, wasn't the Stormcaller the Necron lord on Medusa who got punished by the Deceiver for his "incompetence" after the Necron players lost the campaign?

Imho to be competetive Flayed Ones are deserving to have fleet of foot, furious charge and rending. That was the meaning of harlequin counterpart. I removed that to avoid confusion.


It would suprise me if that list of units is complete. It seems so...short.

Only 2 troop options ?

Only 3 elites ?

Only 2 fast attack choices ?

It seems so boring stilll...

It seems short. However, due to SC Lords can be more playable as ever. Just imagine shifting elites to troops, heavy to elites and so on. It is lots of combinations.




oh i'm going to be an Easter bunny n answer 1 question about the characters so choose wisely...

Tell us something about psyker special character and its special powers.

ghost21
23-04-2011, 13:45
Tell us something about psyker special character and its special powers.




as i read he has powers that are not psychic , think of lady malys that can make attacks on any psyker just for bieng there he has a "shooting power" but i gues its more like discharge energy ... requires tests (but perils of warp are more like system malfunction)

Kurgash
23-04-2011, 14:09
Can it be nulled out by psychic hoods and other anti-psyker gear?

Sildani
23-04-2011, 15:39
Hope so, otherwise the Eldar really have nothing distinctive left. "Psychic" powers that can't be nullified by anti-psyker gear? That's awesome.

KarlPedder
23-04-2011, 16:39
Hope so, otherwise the Eldar really have nothing distinctive left. "Psychic" powers that can't be nullified by anti-psyker gear? That's awesome.

Well the issue is the whole Necrons don't actually utilize the warp so the idea of their "powaz" using the existing psychic mechanic for conveniance and thus giving them a chance to fail as well as a risk is fine that they could be negated by abilities/wargear that cancel out psychic powers isn't, since they aren't well psychic powers so a psychic shouldn't have any impact on them.

Sildani
23-04-2011, 17:05
True, but it's the idea I question. It may not be a psychic power per se, but it will function exactly like one. It simply won't be counterable by anti-psyker wargear, and probably won't have a "perils of the Warp" downside. As a result, that Necron becomes, functionally, the best "psyker" in the game, even though he isn't one at all. That's the distinctiveness the Eldar need - to be the best psykers in the game, whether truly psychic or simply functionally so. If not, the Eldar have nothing left to make them unique among the armies. They just look the best ;).

Necr0n
23-04-2011, 17:18
The Eldar are the best looking? rofl? :P

Back to the topic, Ghost if u do have the draft why cant u give us some special rules or anything? i was really wondering if there are any rumors about the wraiths, at all?

Gazak Blacktoof
02-05-2011, 22:22
The following was posted by Yakface (admin) on the DakkaDakka Forum (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/365775.page)


Hello everyone,

I have gotten my hands on some fairly solid Necron rumors. I say they are fairly solid because the source I got them from has proved reliable in the past, however the rumors themselves are indeed 2nd hand (I didn't see the codex myself), and therefore I can't personally verify any of this. That also means if you have any more questions on anything I (probably) won't be able to provide you with any more details (as I don't have them).

Anyway here goes:


1) No surprise here, but Necrons are still essentially Tomb Kings in space fluff wise. A shift in fluff is now that all of the higher up necrons are intelligent while the lower level ones are still basically automatons. I guess that's roughly the same as it used to be, but apparently there is more emphasis in the sentience of the higher Necrons now (hence the named Lords).


2) C'Tan are still in the codex...sort of. They have been moved to the Elites section and are now a single unit choice, but with variable upgrade powers you can take.


3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.


4) Gauss Weaponry does NOT have rending. It retains the 'auto-glance' on a penetration roll of a '6' rule, but apparently otherwise has lost the 'auto-wound' on a roll of a '6' regardless of Toughness that it used to have. The Gauss Cannon is now apparently Assault 2 & AP3 (I'm assuming the Strength is still 6). The Gaus Flux Arc on the Monolith no longer automatically hits every unit within range, instead each one fires separately and can hit four different targets.


5) Phase out is gone.


6) Destroyers now count as jump infantry and there is a new Fast Attack Jetbike unit called Tomb Blades.


7) Immortals are now a Troops choice. Pariahs are gone. Flayed Ones are Elites.


8) There are indeed 6 named characters (although I have no more info on them). There is also a Necron Overlord and a bodyguard unit called Crypteks. Crypteks can be split off before the game to lead units of Necrons, very similar to Wolf Guard in the Space Wolves codex. Crypteks can take a bunch of different technology upgrades, so there is kind of a way now to have personalized squad leaders in a Necron army.


9) They army is much more mobile now in general. They have several units of jump troops, and 2 new transport vehicles. 1 transport can carry 15 necrons while another can carry 10. Jump pack units count as 2 models and jetbikes count as 5. The one that holds 10 is able to recover casualties to a unit (although can't take it beyond its starting strength). Necron vehicles besides the monolith are open-topped skimmers. However they have something called 'Quantum shielding' which gives their front & side armor +2 until the vehicle takes its first glance/pen, at which point it loses the shielding. One of these two transports (not sure which one) is apparently a personal transport for the Lord (and his retinue).


10) There are six new vehicles in the codex (including the two transports mentioned above). Two of which seem to be based around this old Jes Goodwin design: http://storage.canalblog.com/29/28/731795/53057637.jpg


11) In general Necrons have a lot more long ranged fire support. There is also a new weapon type called Tesla weapons. These weapons, on a roll of '6' to hit automatically cause two more hits. The biggest version of the Tesla weapons has a chance of hitting all other units close to the target; both friend and foe. One of the new vehicles carries the doomsday cannon: 72" S9 AP1 Heavy 1 large blast. BS4.


12) In the Elites section there is a big new walker. It has a heat ray that that is either a melta or flamer depending on what you want to do. Any unit hit by this vehicle is marked (as in: laser targeted), which means that all other necrons count as being twin-linked for shooting at the marked enemy unit that turn.



And that's it! Kind of all over the place and certainly not a full snapshot of the codex, but a lot of these things are completely opposite from many of the other rumors I've seen out there.

BramGaunt
02-05-2011, 22:25
None of that really adds up with the stuff we heard here, I'll be taking these with a lot of salt.

The Satyr
02-05-2011, 22:34
Almost all of that makes no sense

Archibald_TK
02-05-2011, 22:38
That last batch of rumors has generated a lot of buzz on the net so far. While a lot of people seem to react poorly to the inclusion of transport vehicles for the Necron, I on the other hand welcome the many new modeling opportunities these kits may bring.

On the other hand I agree it would be more characterful to have an army that rely on vehicles that teleport models left and right than flying NecroRhinos.

Starchild
02-05-2011, 22:38
The biggest problem I have with Yakface's rumour is this bit about no more Pariahs. Starting with 3rd edition 40k, GW (usually) makes a point not to invalidate models in a new book. For example Dark Eldar... it's easy to use the old models with the newest codex.

Regarding the transport options, it's a step closer to my fear that Necrons will effectively be just another SM-mimicing 3+ save army. Hopefully they will retain their distinctive playing style, or at least recreate the style they had back in 3rd ed. when they were so powerful on the tabletop.

And C'tan as Elites? No way, I'm not buying it. If C'tan are present in a Necron force, there's only one place for them and that's HQ. C'tan are the omnipotent Necron gods after all. :skull:

Rick Blaine
02-05-2011, 22:41
No offense, but Yakface has more cred than everyone in this thread put together.

The Satyr
02-05-2011, 22:48
No offense, but Yakface has more cred than everyone in this thread put together.
Which makes it make even less sense
But theres still this

"I have gotten my hands on some fairly solid Necron rumors. I say they are fairly solid because the source I got them from has proved reliable in the past, however the rumors themselves are indeed 2nd hand (I didn't see the codex myself), and therefore I can't personally verify any of this. That also means if you have any more questions on anything I (probably) won't be able to provide you with any more details (as I don't have them). "

Archibald_TK
02-05-2011, 22:50
The biggest problem I have with Yakface's rumour is this bit about no more Pariahs. Starting with 3rd edition 40k, GW (usually) makes a point not to invalidate models in a new book. For example Dark Eldar... it's easy to use the old models with the newest codex.
It already happened in 5th Edition with the SW Leman Russ being removed.


And C'tan as Elites? No way, I'm not buying it. If C'tan are present in a Necron force, there's only one place for them and that's HQ. C'tan are the omnipotent Necron gods after all. :skull:
Actually I read it as a hint that they will be something similar to the aspect of C'tan, that ability that was already talked about quite some time ago, about models that are basically "Avatars" in the shape of their C'tan master. I think it came from the DoW video game (Yup, I'm the guy who never played DoW before).

mullinstron
02-05-2011, 23:27
C'tan are the omnipotent Necron gods after all.

They are not really gods though. They were worshiped like gods by the Necrons. Really, they are some strange energy aliens in living metal bodies.

~m :)

Sildani
02-05-2011, 23:50
If they look like gods, eat like gods, have god-like powers, demand worship like gods, and are as hard to kill as a god, then...

Some of those rumors gel. Phase out going away, WBB going to a special 5+ "save", and s few others make sense.

C'tan as elites, Destroyers as jump infantry, and a unit being "marked" by one gun in the arsenal makes me think twice, especially the last bit. Complete rip-off of Tau markerlights. Yep, my salt is still well in reach with these rumors. Many thanks for bringing them here though!

The Ginger Ninja
02-05-2011, 23:52
The following was posted by Yakface (admin) on the DakkaDakka Forum (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/365775.page)

Wasn't that the guy who did the current FAQ for Necrons?

MajorWesJanson
02-05-2011, 23:59
The C'Tan as elites seems to make some sense to me. They are not the actual gods, but an Avatar model, which can choose which c'Tan to belong to.

Azazyll
03-05-2011, 00:09
Seems like Yakface may be talking about a more recent playtest version. I certainly like what I hear.

I want to C'Tan in some form, and if the emphasis is now on Lords, perhaps they are essential to the organization of all the little guys, while the C'Tan just butcher everyone while their minions swarm around their feet. Or their avatars, which I should point out is basically what they were before anyway - incarnate versions clad in living metal rather than nebulous star eaters.

Cutting Pariahs could mean they are no longer their own slot, which would jive with what we've heard about them now being bodyguard only. The wolfguardish guys also make sense out of the controversial squad leader issue.

Overall, it seems perfectly reasonable to me, like and evolution of the previous rumors, some of which are fairly old by now.

mullinstron
03-05-2011, 00:32
I still want the C'tan in the codex. I think they bring a lot of flavor to the codex as well as punch. I dont really care if it is "The" nightbringer or a lord that is channeling them, I just think they are cool.

Fluff wise I always thought that it read that even if there body died they just reverted to there energy form until the Necrons could make them a new one. In a sense they have always been an avatar. In their real forms they are energy beings with no physical form.

And, I think the Nightbringer might be my favorite 40k model! :D

~m

nagash42
03-05-2011, 05:09
This is from ghost over on dakka about yak's rumors.

okay from what ive heard this is true...


1) No surprise here, but Necrons are still essentially Tomb Kings in space fluff wise. A shift in fluff is now that all of the higher up necrons are intelligent while the lower level ones are still basically automatons. I guess that's roughly the same as it used to be, but apparently there is more emphasis in the sentience of the higher Necrons now (hence the named Lords).

Yup thats nailed that one

2) C'Tan are still in the codex...sort of. They have been moved to the Elites section and are now a single unit choice, but with variable upgrade powers you can take.

no honestly there not otherwise youll see khorne in the csm dex next


wont coment on rules



6) Destroyers now count as jump infantry and there is a new Fast Attack Jetbike unit called Tomb Blades.

not unles they get a masive redsesign and as the sprues are done n dusted im not sure thats acurate


7) Immortals are now a Troops choice. Pariahs are gone. Flayed Ones are Elites.
only with a charecter

8) There are indeed 6 named characters (although I have no more info on them). There is also a Necron Overlord and a bodyguard unit called Crypteks. Crypteks can be split off before the game to lead units of Necrons, very similar to Wolf Guard in the Space Wolves codex. Crypteks can take a bunch of different technology upgrades, so there is kind of a way now to have personalized squad leaders in a Necron army.

thats really odd that was called pariahs.... so im inclined to agree, there was quite a few charecters though

10) There are six new vehicles in the codex (including the two transports mentioned above). Two of which seem to be based around this old Jes Goodwin design: http://storage.canalblog.com/29/28/731795/53057637.jpg

....all ill say is sky chariot ... but transports.....not sure since they can teleport everywhere they need any, but nothing in ive read says they get so many


12) In the Elites section there is a big new walker. It has a heat ray that that is either a melta or flamer depending on what you want to do. Any unit hit by this vehicle is marked (as in: laser targeted), which means that all other necrons count as being twin-linked for shooting at the marked enemy unit that turn.

he was heavy support last time i saw it


noyt trying to say your wrong or anything or come across a arogant, its just in the version i have seen

Darnok
03-05-2011, 05:13
Now talk about controversial rumours...

I don't want to believe this last batch from Yakface. Nothing about the credibility of the source, I just don't like what I have to read. And with Pariahs being one of the bigger additions to Necron background with the current codex, I find it very hard to believe that they are "gone".

Reflex
03-05-2011, 05:29
I like some bits but not the other. Honestly just gonna have to wait till the crons get re done. If I don't like the new dex I'll be selling my 8000 point army...

MajorWesJanson
03-05-2011, 05:30
I could see Necrons using one of those sky barge things as a pseudo transport- instead of carrying troops aboard, it opens the nose and has a portal like the monolith.

End result is you have the Monolith that is big, powerful, with a portal, flux arc, and small guns that can split fire. Then a transport that is a fast light vehicle with just a portal, and something like an obelisk that is a medium vehicle that has a mid to heavy weapon.

Asuron
03-05-2011, 05:48
still can't get over the transport thing
Why would a race who mastered phase technology, forgo that to drive around in metal boxes

S00N3R FR3AK
03-05-2011, 05:54
I'm happy to see ghost responses to those I was worried Necrons would go through parking lot spam. Something like a moving portal would be cool so I wouldn't have to choose giant gun or move a unit through the portal. And if they do give us some HS options please give us models. Getting the walker will be nice but I would like the other one in case its worth running and the weapon platforms. Though honestly with 2 monoliths already I may just buy a walker and call it a day. Also i really hope pariahs don't go away I love the model and was hoping for plastic ones. Man I was all set to sell my necrons but the rumors over the last two weeks have made my changed my mind.

MajorWesJanson
03-05-2011, 05:54
Thinking on the C'Tan in Elites with upgrades thing, and who the rumored author is, I have a prediction: The unit will be an Avatar of the C'Tan, A high level Necron who is so insane and deluded that he actually believes himself to be one of the star gods. All of the versions will have the same stat line, with a choice of which C'Tan dictating their powers and equipment- in the same setup that the Temple Assassins work in Codex: GK. They will be probably Mostrous Creature- Unique, and while you could take more than one, the price and fact that they are not one of your required HQ models will probably preclude that in games smaller than Apocalypse. GW will have the existing models for the Voidbringer and Deciever to use as those avatars, but will add in the Outsider and the Dragon in a second wave.

NOT RUMOR, but a prediction. I wonder how close my guess will be.

Polaria
03-05-2011, 08:34
Now talk about controversial rumours...

I don't want to believe this last batch from Yakface. Nothing about the credibility of the source, I just don't like what I have to read. And with Pariahs being one of the bigger additions to Necron background with the current codex, I find it very hard to believe that they are "gone".

I've got the itch that we haven't seen the last of Pariahs as of yet... What this rumour might mean is that there is no unit called "Pariahs". However, several rumours talk about Crypteks who are supposedly Lords bodyguards/retinue and work similar to Wolf Guards. Maybe the old Pariah fluff will just resurface in the form of new unit unit new name...



I could see Necrons using one of those sky barge things as a pseudo transport- instead of carrying troops aboard, it opens the nose and has a portal like the monolith.


Like... This maybe? :chrome:

ghost21
03-05-2011, 08:45
you guys do know cryptek was a charecter in the dex i read

Thanatos_elNyx
03-05-2011, 08:47
I really hope they don't get a lot of transports, Necrons should be beaming around the place.
But since GW are in this for selling models, transports is probably the best way of going about that.

nagash42
03-05-2011, 09:35
they're teleporting transports so the unit teleports out of the doorway instead of a hatch opening up to let them out, see totally different.........rrrright.

Sildani
03-05-2011, 10:18
still can't get over the transport thing
Why would a race who mastered phase technology, forgo that to drive around in metal boxes

Game balance is the only reason I can think of. Perhaps the worst reason too, but still...


you guys do know cryptek was a charecter in the dex i read

I recall you saying that before.

Polaris: really great model. Yours?

Zanzibarthefirst
03-05-2011, 10:23
If they operated in the same way as the monlith portal then I don't see anything wrong with that

Souleater
03-05-2011, 11:27
It could be that the C'tan are being retconned to be scrubby alien monsters rather than the overlords. E.g. maybe they have changed over the aeons, lost their sense of self, etc.

I think the 5+++save is a fair if fluffless exchange for WBB. I personally like WBB for the flavour and tension but I know a lot of people dont' like it. I wonder if their stunning inability to hold up an assault is going to be looked at.

Bit sad that Destroyers are being dropped down to JI from being bikes. I hope there is lots of teleporation stuff...but I wouldn't be surprised if that has been partly given over to GK.

Good to hear more rumours. My FLGS now has to special order Necron in so fingers crossed for august.

Polaria
03-05-2011, 11:31
Polaris: really great model. Yours?

No, I just wish I could do that good work... Alas, its from this collection:

http://alariccantonain.canalblog.com/archives/40k___necrons/index.html

MajorWesJanson
03-05-2011, 11:49
I wonder if their stunning inability to hold up an assault is going to be looked at.

Bit sad that Destroyers are being dropped down to JI from being bikes. I hope there is lots of teleporation stuff...but I wouldn't be surprised if that has been partly given over to GK.


I can see Necrons gaining stubborn across the board, personally.

Destroyers ought to stay as Jetbikes, they have the look and seem to work well that way. Make Wraiths into Jump Infantry that ignore terrain instead.

jspyd3rx
03-05-2011, 12:02
Cryptek is position just below lord. They oversee all tomb functions and are responsible for all wargear as well. In FoD book, the cyrptek talked about how he rose in rank to become a cryptek.

MajorWesJanson
03-05-2011, 12:09
That makes sense rules wise and fluffwise. A Lord with a retinue of cryptecs is sort of like a Ork Boss and his Nobs, or a Wolf Lord/Wolf Guard. They are his lieutenants, either keeping close as advisors/bodyguards, or divvied out to provide leadership element to lesser units.

ghost21
03-05-2011, 16:04
it does indeed however i see the old " pariahs" bieng close to crypteks

oh the whole acended necron is belieable but concidering the other 2 star gods are 1. mad n 2. trapped i doubt we will se figures for avatars of those

KarlPedder
03-05-2011, 16:32
it does indeed however i see the old " pariahs" bieng close to crypteks

oh the whole acended necron is belieable but concidering the other 2 star gods are 1. mad n 2. trapped i doubt we will se figures for avatars of those

Well see I figure that with a greater emphasis on them being "avatars" the Dragon being physically trapped would actually be less of an issue. Him being truly free would cause massive changes to the current setting but him being able to project portions of his being into specially prepared necrodermis doesn't sound outside of the realms of what a god even a trapped one should be able to do.

As for the Outsider I don't really see his insanity being any real justification for his inability to have "avatars" indeed I feel his insanity represents an awesome possibility for the inclusion of additional C'tan beyond the remaining 4 without retconning the existing fluff. That potential being something akin to on occasion when the Outsider imbues a portion of his essence into a necrodermis you get another C'tan persona other than the Outsider that could very well be and it would be quite approriate if it/they were actually based of the identities of C'tan that the Outsider ate.

Necr0n
03-05-2011, 17:37
Any other stuff? PLEASE? im dying to know more... I Needs Moar of that... Ghost21 any news? Got anything about wraiths? Or transports?

mullinstron
03-05-2011, 17:52
it does indeed however i see the old " pariahs" bieng close to crypteks

oh the whole acended necron is belieable but concidering the other 2 star gods are 1. mad n 2. trapped i doubt we will se figures for avatars of those

Hey Ghost,

I know that sometimes lines get cross or that some people might have access to some information while others dont. In light of Yakfaces admission of the addition of the c'tan I was wondering for a definite answer from you about what you know.

So , are you saying that the C'tan are in the codex? Or, are you saying they are not in the codex. Or, are you saying your are not 100% sure?

Thanks for all the rumors by the way. We all appreciate it! :chrome:

~m

ghost21
03-05-2011, 18:17
from what ives seen there not. that was 2 versions away from the printed version which i wont see before at least the end of may

so my answer to the best of my knowledge no there not and if they do , it will be a rather huge change from the fluff id read

again i saw pariahs as a bodyguard , not wolf gaurd things there was a sky barge but not a transport more of like a heavy suport platform that charecters got bonuses if they mounted

oh minions of the outsider get "tainted " by his insanity

mullinstron
03-05-2011, 18:29
Thanks for the clarification!

Ok, I'm going to double down and ask one more question. If you can answer amazing, if not no worries.

Did you get a chance to see how the Necrons leadership is going to work ? Are they fearless now or do they have subborn. Honestly I think thats one of the most inresting questions that I have been waiting to hear the answer to as it will change the way the whole army plays. (I am also just praying that they dont just have straight leadership)

Thanks a bunch Ghost! You rock!

~m

Ghost of War
03-05-2011, 18:37
Ghost - any word on spyders? scarabs?

Tymell
03-05-2011, 18:51
I'm really hoping the info in the first post isn't all there is. What's in there looks okay, I'm just hoping for a lot more in the end product.

Captain Ventris
03-05-2011, 19:32
Though I heard the rumor myself from a source, I hope the rumor about the color of your rods in the model giving them specific rules is not true, I have an entire 4K force of necrons all with Red rods, and if the "rules' for them are bad or don't give me any flexibility I'm going to be pretty Peeved...

Narf
03-05-2011, 19:32
Can someone please tell me what this FoD book or text is? Pm me so as to not fill up the thread with ot stuff,cheers

Commandojimbob
03-05-2011, 19:36
Damn I am excited - need to buy FoD to keep the excitement going ! I have £200-300 waiting to get all the new Necron goodness and generally I am liking a lot of the rumours - nothing to me seems stupid, although i am not sure the rumoured WBB streamlines the current system.

Thanks Ghost for the drip feed of Info - its much appreciated

cuda1179
03-05-2011, 19:39
Many people are concerned that Destroyers and Heavy destroyers are rumored to be jump troops instead of Jetbikes. At first I thought the same thing, as they definately LOOK like jetbikes, and the option of turboboosting was nice.

However, being jump troops does have it's own advantage. Deep Strike. With the destructive abilities of Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers it would be like having a unit of tough, relentless devastators pop up. It would be a good way to take out basilisks, clear objectives, generally surprise your opponent, or even create an all-deepstriking Necron army. Imagine this: a Lord with VoD attached to an immortal squad teleporting across the board the same time three units of destroyers and a monolith appear. You could totally reposition the bulk of your forces, form a new line in your opponent's deployment zone, AND make an assault army waste two turns marching in one direction only to have to turn around and head back the way they came while taking fire the whole time.

Kelvan
03-05-2011, 19:52
First post was updated.

Kurgash
03-05-2011, 20:06
Many people are concerned that Destroyers and Heavy destroyers are rumored to be jump troops instead of Jetbikes. At first I thought the same thing, as they definately LOOK like jetbikes, and the option of turboboosting was nice.

However, being jump troops does have it's own advantage. Deep Strike. With the destructive abilities of Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers it would be like having a unit of tough, relentless devastators pop up. It would be a good way to take out basilisks, clear objectives, generally surprise your opponent, or even create an all-deepstriking Necron army. Imagine this: a Lord with VoD attached to an immortal squad teleporting across the board the same time three units of destroyers and a monolith appear. You could totally reposition the bulk of your forces, form a new line in your opponent's deployment zone, AND make an assault army waste two turns marching in one direction only to have to turn around and head back the way they came while taking fire the whole time.

Don't forget Jaws immunity. If Destroyers become JI then that fact alone makes me love them all the more.

Voss
04-05-2011, 02:53
First post was updated.

Hey, next time you are doing that, can you take that nonsense about the 'power level' out? There is absolutely no way to determine that from the current rumours floating around, and I really don't want to hear the whining that results when it turns out not to be true (one way or the other).

It simply doesn't have any place in a rumour thread.

mulkers
04-05-2011, 04:27
These rumours are markeldy different to Yakface's on Dakka...

Polaria
04-05-2011, 05:34
Just a few hours before the Yakface stuff was posted into Dakka BoK did some assesment on rumors that were there then... Now regardless of what your personal opinions on BoK people are ther were a fair few interesting bits in that blog:


There are a couple nuggets of truth in here, maybe on accident! Immortals do get a new kit and do have some new options.

Like several people have been saying.



Pariahs are not “overhauled” but instead “removed”, although they do make decent models for a retinue.

Actually very close to what Ghost21 just said about retinue.



As for the colored rods… well they got sold in a blister (40 to a pack) on my side of the P.D.T.S.S. but that was a second wave thing, so maybe they go in the boxes over here. I can’t rule it out.


The C’Tan aren’t out of the codex and Immortals aren’t troops because of a Lord… they just are.

C'Tan aren't out of codex... But how will they be in it?



The new fast attack unit isn’t what he claims it to be. He is describing a new Elite choice… but he is still off by a wide margin. The “lawn mower” he describes is also not a simple “lots of shots” weapon. It’s much cooler than that.

So the new fast attack is not JI Assault Squad? And the new Elite choice is not exactly ahuge robotic walker (which, I assume, might be Heavy choice).



All in all, these rumors miss out on a few of the big “OMG” moments in the codex. They don’t make a big enough deal about Dedicated Transport options or the Rays, Gauss, Tesla themes that run throughout the codex. The over-all “50’s sci-fi robot monster” feeling is grim-darked up nicely and the codex has some awesome toys in it to make you want to make “VRRRBBRRAAAAMMMM” noises as you carve a line through enemy units.


Transports... Yes, he said it again.

cuda1179
04-05-2011, 06:03
I wonder if what they did to the Pariahs is the same thing they did to Warp Beasts in the Dark Eldar codex.

If you look at the beastmaster entry there are no "Warp Beasts" any more. However, there are Kymerea (Spelling?) that are quite easily represented with the old warp beasts.

KarlPedder
04-05-2011, 06:39
Well I'm really hoping that the folks at Bok aren't more "in the know" since the only things that really stood out to me in what was said there was that the release date listed among the rumour roundup that Kroothawk had posted the release date of August/September was off and that the release date of October that Tabitha posted was closer but still off the mark I'll be furious if they are in Nov, waiting to spend the $1k I have set aside for new Necrons until August was bad enough another 2 months is going to suck.

Souleater
04-05-2011, 07:22
However, being jump troops does have it's own advantage. Deep Strike. .

I'd rather keep the 12" move with a 36" range gun IMHO it is better than being able to DS. Plus the squad can rapidly redeploy as needed.

Sephiroth
04-05-2011, 08:32
oh minions of the outsider get "tainted " by his insanity

This strongly implies there is a system where you can choose which C'tan (if any) your Necrons follow? Perhaps based on whether you take a C'tan 'avatar'? If the later, it would strongly hint for the Dragon and Outsider getting models eventually.

Thanatos_elNyx
04-05-2011, 09:25
I'd rather keep the 12" move with a 36" range gun IMHO it is better than being able to DS. Plus the squad can rapidly redeploy as needed.

If we had to lose Jetbike I would have prefered Jetpacks for the Destroyers.

The models just don't look like Jump Pack infantry to me.

Unless of course they do something like they did with DE, with Grots getting new models and the old models getting new stats as Wracks.

KarlPedder
04-05-2011, 09:29
Im not even sure its worth bothering to discuss rumours now that we have such conflicting ones....

Polaria
04-05-2011, 09:53
Im not even sure its worth bothering to discuss rumours now that we have such conflicting ones....

Tell me the last time we had rumors of an upcoming codex which were not conflicting? Certainly not with any of the last three Codexes I can remember off...

mulkers
04-05-2011, 09:54
Im not even sure its worth bothering to discuss rumours now that we have such conflicting ones....

Yakfaces basically dismissed many of the others.


I wonder if this is a ploy by GW, or if this proves how 'solid' many of the rumours have been.

time will tell

Metal Handkerchief
04-05-2011, 10:19
Im not even sure its worth bothering to discuss rumours now that we have such conflicting ones....

Why do you think all Tau rumor threads died down? Just comes a point where you're sick of it. It's going to be mostly erroneous anyway.

Kelvan
04-05-2011, 10:45
Did you wonder why Necrons2011 was banned after posting one and only solid Necron rumours long time ago, which are confirmed by many persons now?

KarlPedder
04-05-2011, 10:49
Well the most important aspect to me will be dealt with about 2 weeks when the May incoming e-mail if it turns out to be Necrons sweet beyond that a Codex leak like GK is the only thing that is going to excite me now.

ghost21
04-05-2011, 10:53
Why do you think all Tau rumor threads died down? Just comes a point where you're sick of it. It's going to be mostly erroneous anyway.

it turned into wishlisting mainly, but demiurg in the next dex? id certainly count on it
the transports troubble me ive not seen any evidence of concept or design n i should have by now at least to see if they could be done
so if and a big if they wont be out for ages though the rules i read made the gk teleporting abilities look tame so transports were not neccicary

jspyd3rx
04-05-2011, 11:37
GW could be misleading rumor mongers on purpose. I believe it has been done before, though I could be wrong. Either way, I have no doubt GW is very aware of the rumors right now and that they can be taken as viral marketing. We keep getting an early flood of rumors just before every recent codex release.

TimLeeson
04-05-2011, 12:31
it turned into wishlisting mainly, but demiurg in the next dex? id certainly count on it
the transports troubble me ive not seen any evidence of concept or design n i should have by now at least to see if they could be done
so if and a big if they wont be out for ages though the rules i read made the gk teleporting abilities look tame so transports were not neccicary


You are my favourite Rumour-Monger :D thanks again. Great to hear about Demiurg.

On topic, That is a relief! necrons should be teleporting all over the place, not using boring transport vehicles.

Rated_lexxx
04-05-2011, 12:45
Did you wonder why Necrons2011 was banned after posting one and only solid Necron rumours long time ago, which are confirmed by many persons now?

which rumor was that?

Kelvan
04-05-2011, 12:54
which rumor was that?

Necrons (moved from Blood Angels Thread) 15.03.2010

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249667

But lets get back to the rumours.

Ghost21 do you know anything about that Tomb Blades mentioned by Yakface?

Ghost of War
04-05-2011, 14:23
I wonder if the Tomb Blade is the new flyer for Necrons? Its rumored per BoLS that most races will be receiving one come the release of the "Murderous Skies" thingie.

cuda1179
04-05-2011, 14:36
I'd rather keep the 12" move with a 36" range gun IMHO it is better than being able to DS. Plus the squad can rapidly redeploy as needed.

Being jump infantry they still get to move 12 inches. They just can't turboboost.

Ghost of War
04-05-2011, 14:50
Sure hope they dont take away turbo from scarabs, wraiths and destroyers. I love turbo boosting scarabs :D

ghost21
04-05-2011, 15:10
i think hes confusing the tomb king stuff ive not seen anything like that

ive heard all races getting a flyer weather in there books or seperatley

Kervin
04-05-2011, 16:23
ive heard all races getting a flyer weather in there books or seperatley

OK marine player side Woot storm raven.

Xeons player Side: I am liking that necrons are getting an update.

Goatboy
04-05-2011, 18:43
The thing with rumours is we have no way of knowing what stage of development there from. Having conflicting rumours just means that different people have seen different versions of the rules. Heck there could be several versions being tested out at the same time. So we could have conflicting rumours that are both "accurate". Even once the book is published, without GW releasing a detailed playtest and development log you cant say if a given rumour was true or not as it may have been true at one point but later changed.

ghost21
04-05-2011, 19:08
The thing with rumours is we have no way of knowing what stage of development there from. Having conflicting rumours just means that different people have seen different versions of the rules. Heck there could be several versions being tested out at the same time. So we could have conflicting rumours that are both "accurate". Even once the book is published, without GW releasing a detailed playtest and development log you cant say if a given rumour was true or not as it may have been true at one point but later changed.

thats actualy very accurate

killy666
04-05-2011, 19:38
No man, thats really helpless...

Charistoph
04-05-2011, 21:09
The thing with rumours is we have no way of knowing what stage of development there from. Having conflicting rumours just means that different people have seen different versions of the rules. Heck there could be several versions being tested out at the same time. So we could have conflicting rumours that are both "accurate". Even once the book is published, without GW releasing a detailed playtest and development log you cant say if a given rumour was true or not as it may have been true at one point but later changed.

Add on to that, business decisions may then cause other things to happen. Remember the rumors of Tomb Kings being the first 8th Edition Fantasy army, but then it turned out to be Greenskins. While we later found out that was the plan all along, information got twisted between point A and point U.

And let's not forget that often somethings posted as a wishlist here in this rumor board sometimes make it back to other forums sites. They then get recycled back here as canon.

Remember the first rule about rumors: It's probably not true, so you should tell everyone you know.

The Dude
05-05-2011, 00:38
I once developed a list of tips for following rumours and posted it in The Future of Warseer (I think) in an effort to encourage people to do some actual research before believing stuff.

This was just after the Blood Angels debacle which I dug pretty hard to find the root of.

Tabitha
05-05-2011, 01:40
Hi.


On rumors, and the logic of the above:
I don’t work for GW. I don’t actually get to read every version of the play test codex, or even study a version at length. I don’t get to see ALL the new models. Rather I sometimes get to see/read a few things.

Through versions things change. Maybe for one iteration a weapon will be heavy 3, but then it gets changed to a small blast template. Things like that. New stuff changes A LOT.

I have heard of several vehicles which are not talked about yet. I have not heard of a transport yet. And by transport I am speaking of a vehicle which necrons climb into and sail around in, necroning it up. That being said it does make perfect since for GW to make and sell one, since transports cost money to buy, and you don’t have to buy some fancy plastic kit to teleport. But I still haven’t heard anything about transports.

Now my information I learned in late 2010, early 2011. And it likely wasn’t fresh off the press so to speak for the most part then. So will some of it likely change?

Yea, I fully expect it will.

On the subject of C’tans: Everything I have heard about them says that you WILL NOT be able to field one of the Star Gods. That said I wouldn’t expect any of your old Necron models to be useless.

Anyway I think when it comes to rumors some people are Mulder, and some people are Scully.

-Tabitha

Voss
05-05-2011, 02:16
Anyway I think when it comes to rumors some people are Mulder, and some people are Scully.

Irrational believers despite the lack of any evidence, or chronic skeptics even when the truth is poking them in the eye?

Where does that leave the sane people?

jspyd3rx
05-05-2011, 02:56
Umm.. Look at your entire mini collection. Think about how much you spent on it. Ya see, we are not sane people:)

TheLaughingGod
05-05-2011, 03:10
Irrational believers despite the lack of any evidence, or chronic skeptics even when the truth is poking them in the eye?

Where does that leave the sane people?

Not playing this game, sadly.

KarlPedder
05-05-2011, 07:30
That being said it does make perfect since for GW to make and sell one, since transports cost money to buy, and you don’t have to buy some fancy plastic kit to teleport.
-Tabitha

This to my mind is the main reason why (as much as many Necron players may dislike the idea) one should not disregard the possibility of transport(s) in the new Codex.

If it were me making the descions I would give some serious consideration to at least giving the Necrons a transport that had a powermatrix portal and could port units within 12"/bring in units from reserve like the Monolith but with Ar11-12, no particle whip and maybe a 1-3 doesn't take up FOC slots since you wouldn't buy them per unit like normal ones.

I'd even consider tying the VOD to a open topped transport thats a dedicated option for lords all for the simpl fact that this means these types of abilities would require you to buy models.

Polaria
05-05-2011, 07:58
Irrational believers despite the lack of any evidence, or chronic skeptics even when the truth is poking them in the eye?

Where does that leave the sane people?

Cigarette Smoking Man. The Arch-Nemesis of irrational believers and chronic sceptics both. :evilgrin:

Fah Uhl
05-05-2011, 09:42
With the rumored release schedule, should we not then have a final release package (ie. codex print, first wave models ect.) soon? We already "know" what miniatures will be released with the frst/second wave, so would GW not already have a somewhat firm idea about which models to produce in the near (1-1½ year) future? If so, will there still be differing versions of test codex's with different vehicles and other transport options, or should we find out about the general direction that necron mobility will take soon?

I for one would prefer teleportation, happily with some sort of "beacon" vehicle that will give the necron a way of teleporting more safely, and that the opposition has a chance of taking out.

DerWish
05-05-2011, 10:24
Regarding transports I would also favor gimped monolith with only the portal and without any fancy weapons, but with living metal rules.

Possibly a 2nd type of vehicle for the lord alone to embark (open), which would extend some of the lord's special powers to a greater area (like the res orb). It would be a flashy target to shoot down, but would feel like more of a deadly skimmer throne I'm feeling coming out of the new Codex. <- wish-list

Cheeslord
05-05-2011, 10:53
I agree that a lord riding on a big old floating palanquin would look cool (in my mind its based on the bottom 1/3 of a monolith, but also has space for a small squad of elite guards to stand below their lord and blast away at stuff).

I like the idea of other vehicles/units with teleport nodes that can link to each other and the Monolith, creating a "grid" of safe teleport points that can shunt models around the battlefield (but is vulnerable to being disrupted if the enemy destroys key models in the grid)

Mark.

BramGaunt
05-05-2011, 11:10
If Necrons get a open-topped vehicle while the Land Speeder isn't considered open "because of power armour" I'll go berzerk.

Reflex
05-05-2011, 11:34
If Necrons get a open-topped vehicle while the Land Speeder isn't considered open "because of power armour" I'll go berzerk.

I'd find this pretty odd to.. Thats only if necrons keep their 3+ save. All im saying is that with the massive chunks of rumors going around we honsetly cannot say we know what to expect.

Archibald_TK
05-05-2011, 11:41
If Necrons get a open-topped vehicle while the Land Speeder isn't considered open "because of power armour" I'll go berzerk.
Wasn't the whole "not Open Topped because of Power Armor" thing removed in 5th Edition and replaced by a 'not Open Topped just because"?
But actually the only fluff I can find now is that current gen LS use adamantium plating to provide more protection for their controls, and I think it's the current justification for not being OT. I may be missing something thought.

Polaria
05-05-2011, 12:21
If Necrons get a open-topped vehicle while the Land Speeder isn't considered open "because of power armour" I'll go berzerk.

Land Speeder isn't a transport.

Voss
05-05-2011, 12:37
Land Speeder isn't a transport.

Doesn't really matter- all the controls and control surfaces on a land speeder are completely exposed. The idea that the pilot's power armor magically protects the craft from shrapnel is fairly absurd, as is marine-damantium plated controls, for the not Open-topped just because explantion.

Necr0n
05-05-2011, 12:57
New by Yak:



Okay continuing on here with some nice stuff:


13) Necron Warriors have the same basic statline they had before except they now have a 4+ save. Now before you go crazy, also note that their points cost is 12 points, which is a 1/3 price drop (down from 18 points). That means you get 1/3 more Warrior models in the army for the same amount of points...it also makes losing an entire unit due to sweeping advance, not nearly as painful.

I know a lot of cynical people will hate this and accuse GW from simply making the change to sell more Warrior models, and you could be right. But personally I was always hoping they were going to make Necron Warriors not quite as tough and dump the points cost on them, so you could really take a ton of them...given in my mind they are supposed to be more like a shambling horde of undead robots than some sort of small elite force of super-warriors (but that could just be me).

So this change alone totally changes the army from out of the 'MEQ' umbrella and makes their base statline unique in the game (which is good, IMHO).


14) Immortals have lost their T5 (down to T4), but keep their 3+ save. However, their points cost has dropped to 17 pts a model, which is an 11 point drop (more than 1/3 a drop from the previous cost of 28 pts)!


15) All units in the army benefit from the new WBB rule, not just the units that were formerly classified as 'Necrons' in the current codex (even Scarabs!). So although you're only getting a 5+ save in many cases, you're still getting it on some of the more expensive stuff in the army as well (and there are some pricey new units to counterbalance the relatively cheap Warriors and Immortals). Also the vehicle that can add models back into the unit is also able to use this ability on any unit.


15) Rez Orb is still in the game and boosts the new WBB rule to a 4+ instead of a 5+, but only affects the unit it is in. I have a strong suspicion that this is an upgrade that Crypteks can take (I'll confirm if I find out), so I'd imagine you can get quite a few units in the game getting the 4+ bonus save if you want to pay the points to take them for your Crypteks and then split those Crypteks off to lead units.


16) Veil of Darkness is now definitely something Crypteks can take (so you can have a bunch of 'em in the army), but it no longer allows a unit to be pulled out of combat (and neither does the Monolith), except in the case of the Veil carried by one of the named Lords.


17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power. They're naturally still a really mean Monstrous Creature who rocks in combat, but you can also purchase a bunch of different abilities. These abilities are in line with a lot of the things we've seen in the last few codexes, things like: messing around with Deep Striking enemy units, making enemies moving through terrain differently, and allowing the Necron player to change some of his deployment, etc. So it sounds like you have a lot of different options with the C'Tan that really mess with the enemy army and/or supplement your own. And they are not one per army (so you can have 3 if you want to use up all your Elites on them, although it sounds like the other Elites choices are pretty awesome as well).


18) Some of those six new vehicles include flyers (not sure how many), which can move at cruising speed and fire all their weapons.


19) Besides a few units that are Fearless (Wraiths, Tomb Spyders and Scarabs), the army doesn't have any sort of blanket immunity to morale. They are still Ld10, but obviously we know that still leaves them very vulnerable to being run down in combat, and it looks like that will remain a big Achilles heel.


20) Scarabs sound great. They are cheap, have the new WBB rule, move like beasts and have an ability that erodes enemy armor when they get into combat with it. Any non-vehicle model they wound, but don't kill, has its armor save turned to a dash (i.e. nothing) for the rest of the game. If they hit a vehicle, on a 4+ the vehicle loses a point of armor value on ALL facings, and if any facing is reduced to zero, then the vehicle is destroyed (I'm not sure if this ability kicks in for each hit they get on the vehicle, or just once no matter how many hits they cause). There are some items in the army that also have a similar ability to erode armor, including one of the C'Tan powers.

So it sounds like Scarabs may play a major role in most Necron armies!


21) Overall, CC is definitely still the weak point of the army, but it looks like they've got a lot of different places they can take special rules to slow down or screw with approaching enemy, including some of the C'Tan powers, but also some of the different gear they can take. But they also have some different potential counter-assault units, which mainly come out of the Elites section (besides the new Walker, the C'Tan and the flayed ones in Elites there are 3 OTHER brand new units in there as well, for a grand total of 6 Elites choices). The Flayed ones are, being consistent, cheaper than they were and now have 3 Attacks base (but their save is now 4+ as with standard Warriors). One of the other new Elite units is also CC oriented, but is very pricey points wise (but is S5/T5/3+save). This unit can wield a Warscythe, but they are not called Pariahs (no idea if that's what Pariahs have 'turned into' or not).

Another new Elites choice is a sniper style unit that can Deep Strike into play normally or it can choose to immediately Deep Strike immediately after the opponent brings an enemy unit on from Reserves, and they have some nasty additional damage ability against one nominated unit...obviously we need more info to know how useful this will really be, but the concept of countering an opponent's Reserve deployment immediately sounds interesting at least.

The last new Elites choice is an Elite Jump Infantry unit with very close range shooting and some decent CC ability (and are also S5/T5/3+save).


22) Fast Attack has 4 choices...Wraiths, Tomb Blades (jetbikes), Scarabs & Destroyers.

Voss
05-05-2011, 13:08
So Immortals are now warriors with good guns? (And if I remember his first set of rumours correctly, also troops?) Thats certainly a change from the rumours of terminator equivalents- I sincerely hope they don't do this and make them 5/box on 40mm bases.

A lot of this, obviously, requires a truckload of salt. I shall now brace myself for the coming NerdRageStorm.


Also, honestly:

What? This sounds like an entirely new army to me.

Belakor
05-05-2011, 13:08
I need a new pair of shorts!

These rumours makes me glad I purchased a Necron army a month ago. :)

Captain Ventris
05-05-2011, 13:12
20) Scarabs sound great. They are cheap, have the new WBB rule, move like beasts and have an ability that erodes enemy armor when they get into combat with it. Any non-vehicle model they wound, but don't kill, has its armor save turned to a dash (i.e. nothing) for the rest of the game. If they hit a vehicle, on a 4+ the vehicle loses a point of armor value on ALL facings, and if any facing is reduced to zero, then the vehicle is destroyed (I'm not sure if this ability kicks in for each hit they get on the vehicle, or just once no matter how many hits they cause). There are some items in the army that also have a similar ability to erode armor, including one of the C'Tan powers.

So it sounds like Scarabs may play a major role in most Necron armies!


So is he trying to tell us that we will be putting a marker by EVERY model wounded by Scarabs? this sounds like a LOT of record keeping and in the complete opposite direction GW is going generally (with the exception of PTP Tokens for DE)

It really seems his rumors are in complete opposite from what most other Rumor Mongers have been saying, and if he's got the "Street Cred" that some people in this forum seen to give him, I have anxiety for what the Necrons are to become...

mulkers
05-05-2011, 13:16
That is horrible.

What a poor way to dilute such a great army, and a blatent cash grab, more so than ZOMG new models; looks like they will be hitting the shelf

mulkers
05-05-2011, 13:18
fearless wraiths? ouch.

now they can help your opponent win cc

theJ
05-05-2011, 13:19
Yak's rumours worry me... sounds like way too many jerkassrules*... Grey Knights 2.0, anyone?

Luckily, I don't really believe a single word he says at this point**.

*Rules that work by screwing over the rules/roles/tactics of other units/armies.

**I do have this really annoying voice chanting "ward... ward... ward.." in the back of my head, though. Is this normal?

Ghost of War
05-05-2011, 13:21
Well....

I don't quite know what to think about this honestly. The big weakness was that the crons were being run down in combat and wiped out with ease... and that was when they had 3+ saves, now with 4+ saves and a paltry 5+ WBB save, and the orb not helping those around them..

I see that scenerio getting worse?

It sounds like Scarabs can no longer turbo boost.. which is sad.. because they were great for a quick stop gap to get people off your nuts for a little while.

Immortals moving to T4? Sounds pretty lame.

No more Veil out of Combat.. and Monolith out of combat? Makes the army suck even worse in CC. So basically...

Crons are right behind Tau for being crappy in CC eh..

And if Gauss only glances unless scarabs errode a tank to near nothing.. well yeah...

Glad I got 20 bases or the little runts painted up.

These rumors suck

phantom_lord
05-05-2011, 13:25
well....

These rumors suck

+1........

Souleater
05-05-2011, 13:42
I don't like Hordey Necron. They've been expensive troops for as long as they've been in the game. I really hope that there's an option to run a TOUGH elite horde or that these rumours are flat out wrong.

Immortals easier to kill? *sigh*

Ghost of War
05-05-2011, 13:47
Well all rumors that went out for Immortals have been termie bases.. tougher looking and 2+ saves..

So my guess... much of these rumors are wrong.

I mean I have 30 warriors, 20 scarabs, and a lith.. I thought I painted up the core of my force... I am not in the mood to paint 30 more warriors and even more scarabs..

Thanatos_elNyx
05-05-2011, 13:55
If true.

Very Disappoint. :(

MajorWesJanson
05-05-2011, 14:09
"They changed things, now it sucks!" :rolleyes::angel:

Making Necrons less MEQ and more endless robotic hordes is a good thing. WBB is not as good, but can be taken against everything from the sounds of it. Scarabs lose turboboost, but are more damaging than before.

BramGaunt
05-05-2011, 14:12
And again we have mourning and crying befor we even have a confirmed release. God bless us, everyone of us. =D

I like to quote myself, quoting a popular SciFi series: All of this has happened befor, and all of it will happen again. And again. And again.

Bun Bun
05-05-2011, 14:22
Agreed. It is the OMG this army now sucks/broken/uber cheese and now I will never be able to win a game of 40K again, phase of the pathetic whinging and whining that.

Lets get it out of our systems.

EVERYBODY PANIC, ALL IS NOW LOST!!!!!!
WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO ENJOY THE GAME AGAIN BECAUSE THESE UNVERIFIED RUMOURS ARE UNDOUBTEDLY GOING TO COME TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There happy now.

BB :cool:

Thanatos_elNyx
05-05-2011, 14:28
Please refrain from whinging about whinging, its redundant.


"They changed things, now it sucks!" :rolleyes::angel:

Actually, they suck now and the rumoured changes don't fix that.

iamjack42
05-05-2011, 14:32
Actually, they suck now and the rumoured changes don't fix that.

good thing they are a very incomplete snapshot of a codex that excludes any number of units, as well as the point costs for the vast majority of units. But never mind all that, the conclsuion is clear: The new necron codex will suck. :rolleyes:

Now that you know this, I understand why you won't be wasting time following any of the Necron rumor threads. :angel:

Seriously people, get a grip.

Thanatos_elNyx
05-05-2011, 14:38
Comprehension Fail.

I said the "rumoured" changes don't fix any of the problems the army currently has.
So while I am disappointed with the current rumours, I will keep my fingers crossed that the full codex DOES handle the problems.

stonehorse
05-05-2011, 14:38
The biggest trouble Necrons face is assaults, if these rumours of dropping their save to 4+, making WBB on a 5+, and taking away the ability to teleport out of combat are true they have just made the issue more of an up hill struggle for Necrons. Ok so we can now get Necron Warriors with a whole 3rd off the price, which sounds good, but Warriors are crap, and not the work horse of the Necron army. That role belongs to Immortals and Destroyers, and it would seem that Immortals have been lowered in their durability, and Destroyers have had their main advantage taken away... their mobility.

However Scarabs do sound interesting, apart from all the paper keeping they are going to bring to the table.

I'll admit to being quite worried about what direction they may be taking them in.

Necromion
05-05-2011, 14:46
I'm all for Necrons being a horde, but against anything even remotely good at CC they will be overrun especially if these rumors are true. In contrast though if they suck this badly at CC then they better have some insane shooting.

although after reading FoD these rumors kind of go against some of the things that were in there especially if it was based on the new codex.

Santtu
05-05-2011, 14:50
So Necron warriors went from 2+ to 3+ and now to 4+. Should've dropped their toughness to 3 to keep it consistent.

rkunisch
05-05-2011, 14:53
Somehow these changes feel wrong. They are far too many for an army that is not really a bad concept, but has a few flaws. When did we last have an army completely changed in the way it works and feels?

Cheers,

Rolf.

Voss
05-05-2011, 15:01
although after reading FoD these rumors kind of go against some of the things that were in there especially if it was based on the new codex.
Given how bad that book sounds, its probably a good thing. I don't want robotic aliens musing about their unlife and potential for advancement.


On another matter, some level of negative reaction to these rumours to be expected, and it has little to do with the state of the game, balance, or 'sky is falling type' reactions.
If these rumours are true, the nature (and background) of the army is undergoing a very dramatic shift. For people who got into the army because it played a certain way or because they enjoyed a certain aspect of the background or fundamental feel of the army. If the aspects they enjoyed suddenly go away, of course they are going to react negatively.

What these rumours bring is a significantly level of change, even more than the DE update. That largely brought a model update- the feel of the army remained largely the same- light, fast, fragile, but dangerous with units staying in the same roles, even with the rule changes. For these rumoured Necron changes, you have an expensive unit being zapped from existence, the fundamental structure of leadership changing (gods to dead gods being used as weapons), significant changes to fundamental units (both in point cost and stats) which changes the way the entire army plays, major abilities being significantly altered (no CC teleport escapes), and hints of strange vehicle additions.

Now this may or may not improve the army as a whole, but for a lot of people it is very much is not the Necron army they devoted money, time and effort to, so shock and horror is to be expected and shouldn't be too much to ask to understand why they are reacting the way they are, and allow them to do so.

iamjack42
05-05-2011, 15:01
Comprehension Fail.

I see you like to catch your flies with vinegar, then?


I said the "rumoured" changes don't fix any of the problems the army currently has.
So while I am disappointed with the current rumours, I will keep my fingers crossed that the full codex DOES handle the problems.

I don't agree that this is the same as saying that the army sucks now and it sucking is not changed, but let's let that be.

I think the problem here is a glass half full/glass half-empty issue. I assume that the army will be baseline competitive (when was the last 40k codex that wasn't competitive at release?) and therefore think about what the rumors will allow. I guess most of warseer assumes the army will be either (a) overpowered, (b) terribad, or (c) both.

Based on experience that seems like a recipe for being wrong about the codex.

Edit: I do agree with Voss that complaints about the change of Necrons away from their MEQ basis are understandable from those who liked their MEQ Necrons.

Kurgash
05-05-2011, 15:05
The no teleport out of combat saddens me greatly but that just means I'll have to work harder to prevent it!

Fr0z3n
05-05-2011, 15:08
If Yak's rumours are correct I'm going to be pissed. At this point I'm more or less going to just wait and see and hope that the majority of Ghost's rumours come to fruition... Cause tbh 90% of Yak's rumours ruin the feel of the current Necron armies, it's a complete rework and an awful one at that.

Seems to me like WBB is getting nerfed off its ass and the fact it's going to all units seems pretty exclusively idiotic.

Also it seems like crews of crypteks will become 100% necessary in every army and that as soon as the cryptek in any given squad drops the group will become essentially useless. Looks like the group leader shenanigans I've been apprehensive about might actually end up becoming a reality.

And the fact that there might be transports? that's so far from in character with the Necrons that it's just blatantly retarded... The only thing they could do that could possibly seem like a "Transport" that would be in flavour would be to make mobile Portals, Necs enter at point A, then can exit at any other portal or the same portal at point B when they so choose....

I have some serious doubts about Yak's rumours just because they are >>SO<< far from Necrons' current flavour that it's like the entire army is going to the dogs

Draconis
05-05-2011, 15:13
Crons suck in cc? Heres an idea then, dont get your shooty units stuck in cc. Get your assaulty units instead. Bet you'll do a lot better. Actually reading those rumors makes it sound like the army is going to be very versatile and have a ton of options for once. I'm actually looking forward to collecting necrons.

Voss
05-05-2011, 15:17
Seems to me like WBB is getting nerfed off its ass and the fact it's going to all units seems pretty exclusively idiotic.

Going to quibble with this one. There isn't any reason I can think of why scarabs, tomb spiders and the like wouldn't have the self-repair systems that are so ubiquitous in the rest of the army.

Its like having the technology for rubber tires, but decreeing that they are only for cars and trucks, not motorcycles.

Zanzibarthefirst
05-05-2011, 15:18
Lets not forget that the 5++++ save would work against power weapons so it helps them in cc more than WBB does now

brassangel
05-05-2011, 15:22
It doesn't suck, it's just different. People will cry for changes and variety but when it comes they wish it stayed the same.

While I'm skeptical about these proposed rumors, having seen some things myself, I can say that GW's goal is to have no MEQ's other than marines themselves. Necrons are not supposed to be bigger, tougher, and more elite than marines: they are an endless horde of soulless automatons. They aren't immune to bullets and swords: they just get back up occasionally and come back for more.

Making them less expensive renders this possible. If they are less expensive, then they have to have weaker stats; especially if they are going to maintain an army-wide take on FNP and weapons that can hurt anything.

In other words, SOME of the proposed changes make perfect sense. Besides, these are GW's Necrons, jot ours. They could make them purple flowers that transform into bicycles if they wanted to, and then change them next edition into something completely different.

Ghost of War
05-05-2011, 15:23
I started crons because of the low model count and effort to make a force lol.

Sounds like they will become shooty bugs!

Thanatos_elNyx
05-05-2011, 15:25
I see you like to catch your flies with vinegar, then?

Actually I use an inverted tumbler and a piece of paper ;)
Live and let live and all that.

But you have to admit that the tone of your own post deserved it.

Kelvan
05-05-2011, 15:28
I won't update first post with rumours without confirmation by Ghost21 or Harry, Tabitha or Bindi from Heresy.

Voss
05-05-2011, 15:35
I won't update first post with rumours without confirmation by Ghost21 or Harry, Tabitha or Bindi from Heresy.

Not much of rumours summary then, is it? Those four people don't consider themselves the Word of God, why should you? (Though to be fair, I've only seen comments from those first three, so Bindi might ;))

Draconis
05-05-2011, 15:36
You know, brassangle, you make a good point. Marines having the only 3+ save in a universe they nearly conquered sounds pretty fluffy. And even though Crons are made of tough metal, overall theres really less of it in a basic warrior (immortal no withstanding here). So a worse save makes sense. Though how it stops bullets as well as IG 4+ armor i have no idea. Ive always seen Crons as eldar with tricks. They have very specialized roles and dont perform well outside of these roles. These new rumors just reinforce that. I think the new dex, if based on these rumors, will be very versatile and have a ton of "tricks" that their advanced tech gives them access to.

shayvaanhto
05-05-2011, 15:46
New by Yak:



Okay continuing on here with some nice stuff:


13) Necron Warriors have the same basic statline they had before except they now have a 4+ save. Now before you go crazy, also note that their points cost is 12 points, which is a 1/3 price drop (down from 18 points). That means you get 1/3 more Warrior models in the army for the same amount of points...it also makes losing an entire unit due to sweeping advance, not nearly as painful.

I know a lot of cynical people will hate this and accuse GW from simply making the change to sell more Warrior models, and you could be right. But personally I was always hoping they were going to make Necron Warriors not quite as tough and dump the points cost on them, so you could really take a ton of them...given in my mind they are supposed to be more like a shambling horde of undead robots than some sort of small elite force of super-warriors (but that could just be me).

So this change alone totally changes the army from out of the 'MEQ' umbrella and makes their base statline unique in the game (which is good, IMHO).

<snip>
.



Don't know if a reduction to 12 points is far enough... after all a tac marine is 16 pts, but if you take away the 4 pts worth of grenades that necs don't have they would be 12 points WITH a 3+

mrtn
05-05-2011, 15:47
When did we last have an army completely changed in the way it works and feels?

Not a 40K army, but Beasts of Chaos was a skirmish army with heavy monstrous support. Beastmen is ranked infantry.

Both Beastmen and Necrons can be found in the "less popular" group as well.

Voss
05-05-2011, 15:53
Don't know if a reduction to 12 points is far enough... after all a tac marine is 16 pts, but if you take away the 4 pts worth of grenades that necs don't have they would be 12 points WITH a 3+

Depends who you compare it to, though I think it is pretty good even when compared to marines when you factor in the 5^^ save as well. I doubt very much that frag and krak are worth 4 points (even in older books I think they were only 1 and 2 points respectively, anyway). And retaining the ability to glance on 6s has to be worth something.
Consider fire warriors or sisters and factor in the BS, S and T changes, or IG vets, and they seem to be in the right ballpark. GW's point costs are approximations anyway.


As for other complete army changes... well, grey knights. Way back at their first introduction, they weren't psykers- they had an option for librarians but thats it. They were a very standard marine army list, with a bonus vs fear, a few special pieces of wargear and a requirement to take an ordo malleus inqusitor.

Of course, when GW bumped space marines from toughness 3 to 4, and power armour from a 4+ save to a 3+ save, that was a pretty significant change...

BramGaunt
05-05-2011, 15:53
Don't know if a reduction to 12 points is far enough... after all a tac marine is 16 pts, but if you take away the 4 pts worth of grenades that necs don't have they would be 12 points WITH a 3+

A Tau Firewarrior is 10 pts. He has 1 point more strength with his rifle, and more range.

The necron has +1 BS, +2 WS, +1S, +1T, +3 Leadership, + he's got we'll be back. I think 12 would be fair.

And, een if I get tired of saying it, the info in this thread is to be taken with enough salt to feed the creature from Star Trek TOR's first episode for a century.

The Satyr
05-05-2011, 15:55
Lets not forget people, that Ghost said that Immortals have 2+ armor, so i dont believe these rediculous rumors

jspyd3rx
05-05-2011, 15:56
Ugh, I think Yak's rumors are most likely the closest we have to the truthiest rumors. It sounds like the new plastic kits will be the models with best rules. Scrarabs sound gross as well as wraiths. This release is going to be very interesting.

ghost21
05-05-2011, 16:00
first ive been reading some odd rumors about necrons recently the transports thing alone makes me think somthing odd is going on

im not saying there wrong but its a masive and i mean masive change from things i was made aware of

Commandojimbob
05-05-2011, 16:01
Some responses are hilarious - I wish people stop getting knickers in twist over rumours. I for one simply appreciate we have yak and ghost feeding is info - it's all interesting. Personally the necron horde feels right to me - I think the true codec will lie between the 2 sets of rumours !

Keep it coming ghost and yak !

KarlPedder
05-05-2011, 16:05
Don't know if a reduction to 12 points is far enough... after all a tac marine is 16 pts, but if you take away the 4 pts worth of grenades that necs don't have they would be 12 points WITH a 3+

So your saying you know for certain that they don't get grenades for their 12pts? They have disruption fields in the existing codex making grenades that in previous editions were unit options into standard kit seems fairly common with 5th ed codexes...They could also get something like Stasis fields (counts as assault +defensive grenades) as standard kit the fact is we just don't know.

Souleater
05-05-2011, 16:07
I do agree with Voss that complaints about the change of Necrons away from their MEQ basis are understandable from those who liked their MEQ Necrons.

What about those people who wanted their MEQ Necron to become tougher and more elite?

I was fantastically misquoted once when I commented that a Necron Warrior should be at least as tough as a Plague Marine. I'm strongly of the opinion that based on the army's previous history that is at least their entry level.

Necron used to be tougher, more elite than Marines. They had a hint of the HP Lovecraft. Now they are changing into VC horde. I can understand why people might not be impressed with the changes.

Kelvan
05-05-2011, 16:11
Not much of rumours summary then, is it? Those four people don't consider themselves the Word of God, why should you? (Though to be fair, I've only seen comments from those first three, so Bindi might ;))

The codex is already in printing and for sure it is not printed in USA where Yakface is living. Thats the reason why I don't trust him.

His rumours are quite opposite to things that we know from long time. There is a lot of nobraining and ubalanced choices.

Warriors were mentioned to be best troop choice ever like before. Now they will die from heavy bolters without chance to take 5+s due to wipout.

Immortals are Warriors with better weapon.
But they had to be big and tough like old one with 2+s

Scarab Swarms which has to be Troops are superduper unit fighting for FA slot with Destroyers, Wraiths and discarded by Ghost21 Tomb blades?

Ressurection Orb was powerful and now is nobrainer choice to get 4+s due Cryptek Sergeant presence?

Veil is nerfed.

Ctans were killed by Necrons?

No answer for auto loose in CC?

Cheeper flayed ones with 4A at charge?

I don't buy it.

Ghost21 have seen 2nd version, which was quite close to final one. If GW changed everything in last minute they would have to make massive playtesting from the beggining. It is very unusual practice and more than often it ends as fail. All Yakface rumoures seems like fail.

GW couldn't let things to happen like that. We were waiting 9 years for new codex and to buy new models. Not to sell old armies because Necrons still would be unplayable for next 10 years.

Ghost of War
05-05-2011, 16:14
getting knickers in twist!

You keep your cheeky british sayings to a minimum mister!

jspyd3rx
05-05-2011, 16:16
Stickmonkey once said that GW does mislead some folks known to supply rumors. Could Yakface's rumors be an attempt to throw a wrench into current rumors? It definetly does throw all rumors into question, making all rumors less credible. Maybe we are being manipulated.

Draconis
05-05-2011, 16:25
I'm still on the lookout for a leaked codex via GK to which people saw, and coplained and GW then changed the final version. I still think to this day they did it on purpose to get reader comments so they could change the final version to make more peeps happy. And sell more.

Kelvan
05-05-2011, 16:38
I'm still on the lookout for a leaked codex via GK to which people saw, and coplained and GW then changed the final version. I still think to this day they did it on purpose to get reader comments so they could change the final version to make more peeps happy. And sell more.

Im not so sure. Between GK leak and final print was 5 differences:

Ghostknight - point cost and weapon options
Dreadknight - S and T was nerfed which moved unit from nobrainer to average choice
Techmarine - point cost was increased
Assasins - save name was changed
Death Cult - save name was changed

So as you can see it was not so big as people think.

Voss
05-05-2011, 16:42
Stickmonkey once said that GW does mislead some folks known to supply rumors. Could Yakface's rumors be an attempt to throw a wrench into current rumors? It definetly does throw all rumors into question, making all rumors less credible. Maybe we are being manipulated.

When they do that, it isn't to manipulate us, its to find leaks within the company. GW doesn't benefit by aimlessly throwing rocks at the rumour mill.


His rumours are quite opposite to things that we know from long time
His rumours are different from long-standing rumours, true. But that isn't an argument for which is correct, just which rumours have been around longer.

My perspective is simply this: having all rumours on the front page makes for a better discussion. Leaving some buried in the thread simply because you don't like them is just an odd form of censorship that inhibits discussion. Rumours are rumours, and there isn't really a good reason to not update the summary post. This thread is probably going to grow at a fairly fast rate- having them available for easy reference is a benefit- even if its only to disprove them.

Draconis
05-05-2011, 16:42
Thats my point. It gave them a chance to see our complaints minus the fluff, and allowed them to make last minute changes. Specially with the DK.

KarlPedder
05-05-2011, 16:48
Im not so sure. Between GK leak and final print was 5 differences:

Ghostknight - point cost and weapon options
Dreadknight - S and T was nerfed which moved unit from nobrainer to average choice
Techmarine - point cost was increased
Assasins - save name was changed
Death Cult - save name was changed

So as you can see it was not so big as people think.
IMO you left out the biggest there was no such thing as Intercepter Squads in the leaked dex taking teleporters was just an option for strike squads....
Regardless the GK dexes would have been being printed most likely before at the least so shortly after that leaked dex hit the web it would have been too late to make any changes. Not that i could see a company like GW making changes to one of their products due to interwebs nerdrage...

Kurgash
05-05-2011, 16:52
Im not so sure. Between GK leak and final print was 5 differences:

Ghostknight - point cost and weapon options
Dreadknight - S and T was nerfed which moved unit from nobrainer to average choice
Techmarine - point cost was increased
Assasins - save name was changed
Death Cult - save name was changed

So as you can see it was not so big as people think.

On part with the dreadknight, I remember my rumor guy complaining that they nerfed it after the leak happened as it was supposed to be str and tough 7 for final launch but last second changes were added with no support testings.

Theocracity
05-05-2011, 16:55
Thats my point. It gave them a chance to see our complaints minus the fluff, and allowed them to make last minute changes. Specially with the DK.

Correlation does not imply causation.

The new Necron stuff is interesting, but pretty salty. I like army overhauls, especially for one as old and one-dimensional as Necron, but these don't seem entirely credible.

cuda1179
05-05-2011, 17:03
When I first read Yak's rumors at first I was thinking WTF?:wtf: Then I started to digest them. If they are true, they may not be as bad as we think.

For starters, Necrons getting cheaper, weaker, and worse in close combat. As they stand now, could they ever be worse? One round of close combat is quite often enough to kill them all anyway. If they get cheaper you loose fewer points and have another squad left that can shoot.

VOD is nerfed a little, but it is no longer one per army. You can still teleport out of close combat with the special character, so having one orb function in that manner is the same as now. However, having 4 or 5 Cryptechs also with res orbs will allow an ENTIRE army to VOD arround the board. Remember how annoying people thought it was when one unit could do that?

Changing WBB to a 5+ is a little annoying, but then again we can now get 50% more troops. You get what you pay for. It also looks like we have Cryptech Wargear that can boost that back to a 4+. Also, power weapons and instadeath have no bearing, so it is better in that regard.

I believe we will be turned into a turn-one army. With Gauss back to it's 3rd edtion effectiveness, just with MUCH more of it on the field, we will be able to kill almost any vehicle if the enemy can stop us in the first two turns.

It also looks like many of the newer units will be foce multipliers. 2+2=5 kind of thing. Having weaker warriors might not matter if it is compensated for with stat boost from different sources.

The Satyr
05-05-2011, 17:04
On part with the dreadknight, I remember my rumor guy complaining that they nerfed it after the leak happened as it was supposed to be str and tough 7 for final launch but last second changes were added with no support testings.
It was also supposed to have a 4+ inv

BramGaunt
05-05-2011, 17:15
I'm still on the lookout for a leaked codex via GK to which people saw, and coplained and GW then changed the final version. I still think to this day they did it on purpose to get reader comments so they could change the final version to make more peeps happy. And sell more.

The only problem with your theory is that the leak showed up 1 1/2 months befor release, and codices are finished 3 months ahead of the release. The moment we get the incoming article, the codex hits the printers. Meaning, it has bee ntranslated, reread, edited and layed out already.

BramGaunt
05-05-2011, 17:23
I just came up with a funny theory to explain the 'drop' in deadliness and increase in numbers.

In a way, Necrons evolved like Tyranids. At the very beginning we had just awoken skirmish squads of Necrons, raiding isolated outposts. The very first stage of Necron reawakening.

Then, we had our Codex, which featured the first real battles the citizens of the 40k universe had with necrons. Necrons were a new opponent, there was (and until today) is not enough viable information about the Necrons to fill 1 DvD within the Empire. Even for Space Marines, Necrons seemed extremely tough. To defeat even one of the smaller NEcron forces a uncomparable ammout of fire- and manpower was needed.

Now, Mankind and the other races adapted. There are the first defensive protocols and tactics to deal with necrons. They are still deadly and terrifiyng, but a little more handable. Space Marines know where to shoot and hit them, what the mechanics behind the Tombs is. They still only glimpsed the very edge of what the Necrons are, but can fight them more easily. Only problem now is that they increased in numbers. So, while they are easier to kill, there are a lot more of them out there now.

It's just one way to argue, of course, and based on the 'theory' that they indeed dropped in toughness or armour saves.

ghost21
05-05-2011, 17:24
The only problem with your theory is that the leak showed up 1 1/2 months befor release, and codices are finished 3 months ahead of the release. The moment we get the incoming article, the codex hits the printers. Meaning, it has bee ntranslated, reread, edited and layed out already.

technicaly a few weeks before but thats really right on the money

Bylak
05-05-2011, 17:37
I think the C'tan fluff change is the one that irks me the most about these Necron changes =\

I also preferred the lower count, more elite feel of the Necron army to the undead-robot-horde army. If I want to keep playing horde armies I'll stick to Orks.

Voss
05-05-2011, 17:42
Horde is rather a misnomer. These aren't 6 point models like the Orks, Guard or Tyranids field. Even if you try to do a horde, a real horde army will outnumber you by at least 2 to 1.

If this is true, they are more in the mid-range category like Tau (though Tau can drop packs of kroot on the battlefield and make up numbers), Sisters, or even Eldar (and again, the eldar can put more bodies on the field if they want to)

Bylak
05-05-2011, 17:46
True, calling them a horde army is a lot much on my part. I do appreciate the army with the model count as it currently is though, and I would rather not see it go up >.<

mullinstron
05-05-2011, 17:47
Well....

I don't quite know what to think about this honestly. The big weakness was that the crons were being run down in combat and wiped out with ease... and that was when they had 3+ saves, now with 4+ saves and a paltry 5+ WBB save, and the orb not helping those around them..

I see that scenerio getting worse?

It sounds like Scarabs can no longer turbo boost.. which is sad.. because they were great for a quick stop gap to get people off your nuts for a little while.

Immortals moving to T4? Sounds pretty lame.

No more Veil out of Combat.. and Monolith out of combat? Makes the army suck even worse in CC. So basically...

Crons are right behind Tau for being crappy in CC eh..

And if Gauss only glances unless scarabs errode a tank to near nothing.. well yeah...

Glad I got 20 bases or the little runts painted up.

These rumors suck

QFT !

I really hope these are not true. Not only is this not anything like the current necron dex, it plays to all of the weaknesses that it currently has.

I am hoping for fearless or stubborn, otherwise warriors are going to be useless for anything other than holding objectives.

~m

ghost21
05-05-2011, 17:58
c'tans arnt changing ...man realy if there in the book i demand the chaos gods in the deamon book and horus in the chaos book
its fair there gods (im sorry but really this irks me and a few where i work) you know i can destroy a planet by just thinking it power, the q type of power?

so a primarch could posibly destroy its body (because a necridermis contains it ) but it would just pop up again n squash the idiot or escape to nearest sun yum yum yum oh look its supernova....

the outsider mr im so crazy that the old ones had to build a metal prision just to contain me ... they directed there eforts to him why? he wasnt the most powerfull... but he was the most dangerous his madnes infected others ... turned there own forces into jibbering idiots he could munch on

okay that was a longer rant than i wanted

but realy no there presence felt in an army certainly... them physicaly there no n i cant elaborate more

Avian
05-05-2011, 18:07
I for one really like the sound of Yak's rumours. I think it's a great step in the right direction to bring the cost of the basic models down in order to bring the model count in the army up. And if you want more of an elite army, you can take Immortals as troops and do without Warriors.



Stickmonkey once said that GW does mislead some folks known to supply rumors.
A statement which about as much truth to it as mr S. Monkey's "rumours" (or, if you like, about the same truth content as the gold content of sea water). :D

ghost21
05-05-2011, 18:09
I for one really like the sound of Yak's rumours. I think it's a great step in the right direction to bring the cost of the basic models down in order to bring the model count in the army up. And if you want more of an elite army, you can take Immortals as troops and do without Warriors.



A statement which about as much truth to it as mr S. Monkey's "rumours" (or, if you like, about the same truth content as the gold content of sea water). :D

oh avian why do you make so much sence with such few words....

Avian
05-05-2011, 18:12
Well....

I don't quite know what to think about this honestly. The big weakness was that the crons were being run down in combat and wiped out with ease... and that was when they had 3+ saves, now with 4+ saves and a paltry 5+ WBB save, and the orb not helping those around them..

I see that scenerio getting worse?
Well, being 33% cheaper means you have more points to spare for combat units (or, if you want to reinvest the points in the same unit, you get 50% more guys, contributing to 50% more attacks). AND it seems that 33% fewer guys get killed by power weapons. Both of these should mean that you lose combats by less to begin with.

Voss
05-05-2011, 18:13
c'tans arnt changing ...man realy if there in the book i demand the chaos gods in the deamon book and horus in the chaos book
its fair there gods (im sorry but really this irks me and a few where i work) you know i can destroy a planet by just thinking it power, the q type of power?

so a primarch could posibly destroy its body (because a necridermis contains it ) but it would just pop up again n squash the idiot or escape to nearest sun yum yum yum oh look its supernova....

the outsider mr im so crazy that the old ones had to build a metal prision just to contain me ... they directed there eforts to him why? he wasnt the most powerfull... but he was the most dangerous his madnes infected others ... turned there own forces into jibbering idiots he could munch on

okay that was a longer rant than i wanted

but realy no there presence felt in an army certainly... them physicaly there no n i cant elaborate more


Your rant is a little incoherent, to be honest.

Most importantly, you contradict yourself- you say they aren't changing at the begining, but say they aren't there at the end.

If they aren't in the book, they certainly *are* changing from the current codex.

nagash42
05-05-2011, 18:13
but immortals are kinda crap now they're just warriros with a different gun now it sounds like.

Voss
05-05-2011, 18:18
but immortals are kinda crap now they're just warriros with a different gun now it sounds like.

and keeping the 3+ save. But, and this is fairly significant, they apparently keep their rather good gun for 11 points less per gun. Thats quite good. Assault 2 heavy bolters (with glancing on 6s) at 17 points a gun is potentially quite effective.

mullinstron
05-05-2011, 18:18
Honestly it the no fearless/stubborn thing that's killing me. With that I would love these changes.

~m

Bylak
05-05-2011, 18:20
but immortals are kinda crap now they're just warriros with a different gun now it sounds like.

Based on these rumours, and if Immortals do end up being troops, I'm wondering what the motivation is going to be for taking the standard Warrior over Immortals for troop choices.

iamjack42
05-05-2011, 18:22
Honestly it the no fearless/stubborn thing that's killing me. With that I would love these changes.

~m

Do you really want fearless? No Retreat is pretty brutal with that, isn't it?

John Wayne II
05-05-2011, 18:25
I for one really like the sound of Yak's rumours. I think it's a great step in the right direction to bring the cost of the basic models down in order to bring the model count in the army up. And if you want more of an elite army, you can take Immortals as troops and do without Warriors.

I wonder what the model limit in a unit will be? If you can go up to 20 then you could take these huge units and teleport them about with VoD equipped Crypteks. If Yak's rumours pan out then I think Warriors will be ridiculously cost effective.

WildWeasel
05-05-2011, 18:30
Do you really want fearless? No Retreat is pretty brutal with that, isn't it?

Not as brutal when making a Sweeping Advance test with I2.

ghost21
05-05-2011, 18:35
sorry that its incohearent, there not changing meaning from what ive posted before ie not in the dex that i read. and thats true from what i was / am aware .. apologies to all

there not SC or in a unit entry as im aware of ... thats what im trying to say.

there gods they should not be in the list. and as im aware theyare not

jspyd3rx
05-05-2011, 18:36
Only one person can truly save us from all this forum sodium. That is "The Voice". Only he can pierce this veil of rumor confusion we are in. If only we could summon him with a sort of Internet searchlight.

Mchagen
05-05-2011, 18:40
and keeping the 3+ save. But, and this is fairly significant, they apparently keep their rather good gun for 11 points less per gun. Thats quite good. Assault 2 heavy bolters (with glancing on 6s) at 17 points a gun is potentially quite effective.

- Immortals (40mm base, bigger with "bling" - 5 per box)

The immortals part of Yak's rumor is especially not clicking with this rumor on mini's, they're making them bigger (terminator sized) but reducing the stats back to old necron warrriors, at 17 points each?

iamjack42
05-05-2011, 18:47
- Immortals (40mm base, bigger with "bling" - 5 per box)

The immortals part of Yak's rumor is especially not clicking with this rumor on mini's, they're making them bigger (terminator sized) but reducing the stats back to old necron warrriors, at 17 points each?

I don't see why. It isn't like a model's base size/body size requires specific stats. There's no reason GW couldn't decide a T4 3+ model is big, bulky and on a 40mm base, while the same race has a T4 4+ model on a 25mm base.

Aren't Crisis Suits T4 3+ models?

TimLeeson
05-05-2011, 18:51
hrm, well if warriors are going to have a points cut - ill just play smaller scale games :D no problems there! shame theres nothing on wraiths though, I was really hoping for some variants, a character wraith-lord or something to take them as troops. It seemed like such a no-brainer. The Flyer rumour is good news though! hope it keeps the half-moon visual style.

Mchagen
05-05-2011, 18:53
I don't see why. It isn't like a model's base size/body size requires specific stats. There's no reason GW couldn't decide a T4 3+ model is big, bulky and on a 40mm base, while the same race has a T4 4+ model on a 25mm base.

Aren't Crisis Suits T4 3+ models?

They also have 2 wounds and cost 40 points+. I can't think offhand of any models that are on a 40mm base outside of swarms that are that cheap and don't have a 2+ save or multiple wounds.

Souleater
05-05-2011, 18:56
but immortals are kinda crap now they're just warriros with a different gun now it sounds like.

Immortals aren't crap. They are overshadowed in their role by Destroyers but they aren't crap.

If both become troops and keep their guns then Immortals will be my defacto choice - superior range, STR and AP will make them better than Warriors.

Much of these new rumours run counter to what Necron currently are - I believe that in large part they are rubbish.

iamjack42
05-05-2011, 18:58
They also have 2 wounds and cost 40 points+. I can't think offhand of any models that are on a 40mm base outside of swarms that are that cheap and don't have a 2+ save or multiple wounds.

Ok, but how does that translate to an a priori determination that GW must make models that way?

Edit: What about Dark Eldar Khymarae? Aren't they 1 wound T4 4++? The website doesn't say, and I don't have the codex at work.

Voss
05-05-2011, 19:06
Much of these new rumours run counter to what Necron currently are - I believe that in large part they are rubbish.

That actually makes them more believable to me. The necron book, as it currently stands, got kicked in the cans by 5th ed, and is sorely lacking in a lot of areas, notably units, variety and often functionality. It just doesn't mesh well with the rest of the game. Actually making major changes so it fits what 5th ed 40K currently is makes sense to me, even though I don't like aspects of 5th ed.

Most importantly for me, yakface's rumours do something fairly major that I really like. My current army set up involves 3 slightly larger than minimum sized units of warriors (objectives being a significant part of the game) and 2 slightly smaller than max sized units of immortals. At 1500 points, thats ~80% of my list. With yakface's rumours, I suddenly have 400 extra points to make the army interesting and functional, and as a bonus, thats all troops. It also, imo, fits much better with the silent, gleaming legions of the Necrons, and how the army should look on the table.

Kelvan
05-05-2011, 19:07
First page is updated. You can choose your set of rumours.

Avian
05-05-2011, 19:10
Well, being 33% cheaper means you have more points to spare for combat units (or, if you want to reinvest the points in the same unit, you get 50% more guys, contributing to 50% more attacks). AND it seems that 33% fewer guys get killed by power weapons. Both of these should mean that you lose combats by less to begin with.
As an addendum, getting 50% more guys should also mean you shoot more people dead before they assault you.

BramGaunt
05-05-2011, 19:31
And in addition, to Avians already fair point, you have more squads to target. Where formerly there were 2 times 20 warriors, now there's 3 times 20.

Captain Ventris
05-05-2011, 19:35
The Yakface Rumors are growing on me as I read more and think about it more...

Still do not like the Scarab changes he has though. Just give them modified rending attacks that get a full +D6 like rending used to be and call it a day, now you can rip appart tanks etc all day long.

Moving like beasts is ok with me, but I much rather like to turbo-boost them to get the 3+ inv. save and strike on Turn 2 with them

Combat Emu
05-05-2011, 19:51
Hmm... the more horde style warriors sound like a solid route to me... the thing is just:

What is the point of having a large number of crons like on the codex cover, if you have to box them up anyway!

7 gauss tesla phase necron ward transports are NOT a fluffy or stylish necron army! Even if there are 70+++ warriors inside them! The stylish part is when the legion just marches towards their opponent, takes everything he has and guns him down regardlessly.
Open transports just means no warrior will ever set his foot on the table...
Oh well...

Also: Decreasing the point costs for troops led only in very rare cases to hordes. In most cases everyone just pays even less for them and doubleplusmoar on everything else.

These rumours confuse me, because they sound like something that may actuually be a valid codex by Ward... But then a lot of those sound like as wrong a step as the creation of the universe.

S00N3R FR3AK
05-05-2011, 19:59
So if I am reading this right its 17 points per immortal? And if they are getting the termi treatment then what $40-50 for less then 100 points of troops? I really hope that's wrong as it'll make fielding them as a core troop just as expensive as a elite choice right now. These rumors are killing, first a wave of like hell yeah and now a bunch of o crap.

ghost21
05-05-2011, 20:02
im not sure if this is a rumor but usualy those people who have sorces are asked not to post point costs or exact rules somtimes by nda

BramGaunt
05-05-2011, 20:11
Thats more like always. We usually get point costs when black boxes hit the stores.

x-esiv-4c
05-05-2011, 20:36
Those concept sketches are so grimdark. We quite literally have flying skulls with guns poking out their eyes.

Draconis
05-05-2011, 20:41
So if I am reading this right its 17 points per immortal? And if they are getting the termi treatment then what $40-50 for less then 100 points of troops? I really hope that's wrong as it'll make fielding them as a core troop just as expensive as a elite choice right now. These rumors are killing, first a wave of like hell yeah and now a bunch of o crap.

Lol, so you dont want to have 85 points for 5 immortals at $50 a box and would rather instead have say 110 points for 5 immortals at $50 a box?

S00N3R FR3AK
06-05-2011, 04:03
Lol, so you dont want to have 85 points for 5 immortals at $50 a box and would rather instead have say 110 points for 5 immortals at $50 a box?

Ok I dont have a normal marine dex but GK termies start at 200 points with lots of upgrades. If immortals can take all these upgrades sure. I am already sitting on a pretty big army but I would like to field more immortals but not at the $ cost it might be. I rather get flayed ones to buff my melee and just keep the 10 immortals I have as it. Also its not like the rumors are making their stat line seem like they could be in any way useful as a 5man unit. I just don't get why at this point it couldn't be a box of 10.

KarlPedder
06-05-2011, 05:09
You do realize S00N3R FR3AK that your arguement doesn't make any sense you seem to think pts value or effectiveness should have some impact on how much the models cost...... But then considering the armies listed in your sig and what your actually complaining about here, you pick high pts value armies so you have to don't spend too much cash.

So translation I don't wanna have to spend too much $$$$ whaaaaaa.....

dancingcricket
06-05-2011, 16:44
The Yakface Rumors are growing on me as I read more and think about it more...

Still do not like the Scarab changes he has though. Just give them modified rending attacks that get a full +D6 like rending used to be and call it a day, now you can rip appart tanks etc all day long.

Moving like beasts is ok with me, but I much rather like to turbo-boost them to get the 3+ inv. save and strike on Turn 2 with them

I liked the turbo boost as well. But we can't have marines shooting at things that have a 2+ cover save in the open, can we?


Ok I dont have a normal marine dex but GK termies start at 200 points with lots of upgrades. If immortals can take all these upgrades sure. I am already sitting on a pretty big army but I would like to field more immortals but not at the $ cost it might be. I rather get flayed ones to buff my melee and just keep the 10 immortals I have as it. Also its not like the rumors are making their stat line seem like they could be in any way useful as a 5man unit. I just don't get why at this point it couldn't be a box of 10.

They can't be a box of 10, because then you wouldn't have to pay more...

Bulkoth
06-05-2011, 17:03
So IF Yak Face's rumors are true, what units are getting Tesla? It seems like he stated the rule and only mentioned that some big gun could have a more advanced rule for it but not what stuff might have the base rule.

Draconis
06-05-2011, 17:17
What does the tesla rumor do again?

IronNerd
06-05-2011, 17:26
Based on these rumours, and if Immortals do end up being troops, I'm wondering what the motivation is going to be for taking the standard Warrior over Immortals for troop choices.

After reading the summary, I skimmed the thread until I found someone stating this to agree with. If Yakface's rumors are correct (and there is nothing else we're not seeing, like warriors doing something "special"), then I might as well trash my warriors. Think of the bonuses you're getting for 5 points, a MUCH better gun and a 3+. Warriors would have to be given something massive to make up the gap.

BramGaunt
06-05-2011, 17:42
Something like not being slow and purposefull and not allowed to run?

Draconis
06-05-2011, 17:49
While Im in the group that thinks warriors, immortals and the like should be S&P and not be allowed to run, that would certainly make the diff if the warriors were not subject to it and immortals were.

lrdkudzu
06-05-2011, 17:51
But if the Immortals are S&P, that limitation would be mitigated by the rumored Open-Topped skimmer Transports. So, the better gun and armor would also come with the opportunity cost (and points cost) of the transports in many lists.

Draconis
06-05-2011, 18:17
Which would force you to take the transports. spending points on them. and of course buying immortals and transports : )

IronNerd
06-05-2011, 18:24
Even if Immortals are S&P (and can't run) [which I doubt, at least the "can't run" part], I would still gladly take multiple squads. 17 points for an Assault 2 S5 gun at BS4, on a T4 3+ WBB model still seems like a bargain. Especially if any of these rumors about all the teleportation are true...

Theocracity
06-05-2011, 18:41
That seems like a viable playstyle; tough but slow Immortals shooting out of open topped transports that cover their weaknesses.

To contrast it, Warriors could provide larger unit size, more reliable movement on foot, and better benefit from Crypteks (a Res orb as described would be much more worthwhile in a large unit that can benefit from statistical averages). With more shots, glancing vehicles would be easier too.

A combination of those forces, with better counter-assault units and rampant teleportation or deployment tricks, sounds pretty potent.

If the rumors pan out, of course.

S00N3R FR3AK
06-05-2011, 19:12
You do realize S00N3R FR3AK that your arguement doesn't make any sense you seem to think pts value or effectiveness should have some impact on how much the models cost...... But then considering the armies listed in your sig and what your actually complaining about here, you pick high pts value armies so you have to don't spend too much cash.

So translation I don't wanna have to spend too much $$$$ whaaaaaa.....

I picked the armies for the fluff but lets go ahead and make assumptions about people that's always fun. There is nothing wrong to think it is ridiculous to charge what could be $100 to field a troop choice for an army that looks like its being changed to horde tactics. I think having to field more warriors is great and gives a nice vibe to the army and I have no problem shelling out the money to increase my warrior ranks.

I like the idea of VoD for the crypteks, I think it would be fun to spend the game jumping around the board is the rules allow it lol. My dice rolls would mean I'd lose some units but would enjoy it.

Goatboy
06-05-2011, 19:16
Ugh hate S&P, reduced movement and/or cant run fine. But random movement? No thanks.

If the rumours about Cryptek's and VoD pan out, barring a massive points difference or nerfing of the VoD any transports are going to have to do more than move units from A to B to be worth taking over a Cryptek with a veil.

Cergorach
06-05-2011, 19:23
Necron transports: The same reason why Necrons still have legs, they still move short distances on foot, "transports" are probably less power hungry then constantly teleporting Necrons all over the place. They also provide other functions (such as mentioned in the rumors, some heal/repair the troops, others might have other functions as well). And who knows, maybe the Necron Lords are afraid that some of the races might have found out how to block Necron teleporting. I would also like to note that the Necron vehicle concept art has been around longer then any Necron fluff (I liked that concept art a lot).

Immortals & 40mm bases: The Eldar have a 5pt upgrade on a 40mm base, the Shuriken weapons platform. The Kroot have a Kroot Ox on a 40mm base, no save and only T3 (but it has W3 for 35pts). Dark Eldar Kymera are only 12 point, T3, a 6+ save, and are a whole lot more expensive for 5 the $50. Not to mention the erronous assumption that 5 40mm based Troops will cost $50, they are (according to rumor) Troops. On the other hand, 3 Tyranid Warriors cost $35, so things could always be worse ;-) The reason why they would be sold per 5 and not ten, you can ask higher prices per box of 5. Would you buy boxes of 9 Tyranid Warriors for $100? The minimum IG troop platoon choice is $75 (25IG).

Cheaper Warriors, Immortals & Flayed Ones: One could talk away greed anyway one wants, justification, fluff, etc. But I see it as a blatant attempt to sell even more stuff and hooks right in with the rumor that different colored rods have different game effects. I do think that a horde of metal men is cool, but you do that by taking lots of Wariors and playing large battles imho. I'm a great defender of GW and higher prices, but in this case it's going to be price increase stacked on top of price increase on top of price increase. Not only will a Necron player need to buy into the new units to keep the army balanced, it will need 50% more warriors to achieve the same effect, the reboxing from 12 warriors for $35 to 10 for ~ $37.25 is an increase of almost 30% per figure (add to that that you now need 50% more). This rumor gives me a really bad taste in my mouth, something I haven't tasted in a while.

S00N3R FR3AK
06-05-2011, 19:30
Necron transports: The same reason why Necrons still have legs, they still move short distances on foot, "transports" are probably less power hungry then constantly teleporting Necrons all over the place. They also provide other functions (such as mentioned in the rumors, some heal/repair the troops, others might have other functions as well). And who knows, maybe the Necron Lords are afraid that some of the races might have found out how to block Necron teleporting. I would also like to note that the Necron vehicle concept art has been around longer then any Necron fluff (I liked that concept art a lot).

Immortals & 40mm bases: The Eldar have a 5pt upgrade on a 40mm base, the Shuriken weapons platform. The Kroot have a Kroot Ox on a 40mm base, no save and only T3 (but it has W3 for 35pts). Dark Eldar Kymera are only 12 point, T3, a 6+ save, and are a whole lot more expensive for 5 the $50. Not to mention the erronous assumption that 5 40mm based Troops will cost $50, they are (according to rumor) Troops. On the other hand, 3 Tyranid Warriors cost $35, so things could always be worse ;-) The reason why they would be sold per 5 and not ten, you can ask higher prices per box of 5. Would you buy boxes of 9 Tyranid Warriors for $100? The minimum IG troop platoon choice is $75 (25IG).

Cheaper Warriors, Immortals & Flayed Ones: One could talk away greed anyway one wants, justification, fluff, etc. But I see it as a blatant attempt to sell even more stuff and hooks right in with the rumor that different colored rods have different game effects. I do think that a horde of metal men is cool, but you do that by taking lots of Wariors and playing large battles imho. I'm a great defender of GW and higher prices, but in this case it's going to be price increase stacked on top of price increase on top of price increase. Not only will a Necron player need to buy into the new units to keep the army balanced, it will need 50% more warriors to achieve the same effect, the reboxing from 12 warriors for $35 to 10 for ~ $37.25 is an increase of almost 30% per figure (add to that that you now need 50% more). This rumor gives me a really bad taste in my mouth, something I haven't tasted in a while.

So you put the immortals into light in a nicer way instead of just being rude about it.

For the transports if they do offer things like WBB I think that will be cool but I hope they don't force them onto us by making them so good and everything else not as good.

As for the warriors wow did not think of it that way. I might buy a few BF to buff up my warriors. 48 doesn't seem like enough any more. And if they do have the color rods do different things I feel like that is a pure greed move.

PreacherBoyRoy
06-05-2011, 19:33
I will wait patiently wait for the codex to drop, or more consistent rumors to appear before making a judgement.

Draconis
06-05-2011, 19:36
Meh, you can buy the colored rods dirt cheap off of plumbing sites. Like a dozen foot long ones for $3.

"For the transports if they do offer things like WBB I think that will be cool but I hope they don't force them onto us by making them so good and everything else not as good."

Hereby known forever more as the "tyranid business model"

Captain Ventris
06-05-2011, 20:08
The minimum IG troop platoon choice is $75 (25IG).

you can get a single 10-man box for $25 and make a veteran squad out of it, albeit with only Grenade launchers and flamers, its still one box for one troops...

just saying ;)

I would like to see Warriors go to Horde style personally (not just because I have 120 of the bastards) but I certainly hope some of these other rumors are false, a 5+ wbb would be brutal, and a resorb buffing that, only works till they snipe him outta the unit... (I assume he'd work like an IC)

Cergorach
06-05-2011, 20:17
Meh, you can buy the colored rods dirt cheap off of plumbing sites. Like a dozen foot long ones for $3.

THAT is not the point, it's not as if you can switch them out without damaging the paint job. Look at the composition of a full Space Marine Tactical squad, up to 7 marines will always have Bolters, 1 has a special weapon, 1 has a heavy weapon, and 1 sergeant. If you want the way a 10 man unit of Space marines works you change 1-3 miniatures. If you want to change how a 10 man unit of Necron Warriors works you'll have to change 10 miniatures if there are three aditional colors you'll need 40 miniatures for all the options, for Space Marines, more like 20. Then there is that points wise 10 SM = 15+ Warriors, while Warriors will probably end up costing the same as SM (10 for $37.25). SM Scouts do have a couple of options, but atleast they are different weapons and not some easily produced different color rods. You can even magnetize most arms, I don't see much use doing that for most SM, but I do it for my Terminators. Can't magnetize colored rods...

Cergorach
06-05-2011, 20:31
you can get a single 10-man box for $25 and make a veteran squad out of it, albeit with only Grenade launchers and flamers, its still one box for one troops...

just saying ;)

You could also buy one box of warriors, no need to buy Immortals is what your effectively saying. But again not the point I am making, Immortals are not the core troop choice, Warriors are. IG Veterans are not the core troops of a IG force, that you can make them the core of your IG force is something completely different, the same goes for Warriors vs. Immortals. Immortals, unless they are more then $11.67 a piece, are not horribly more expensive then certain current 40k Troops. The point is that you don't 'need' to take Immortals as a Troop choice.

Avian
06-05-2011, 20:36
And if they do have the color rods do different things I feel like that is a pure greed move.
That sounds too tacky to be true. :D



im not sure if this is a rumor but usualy those people who have sorces are asked not to post point costs or exact rules somtimes by nda
If you have signed a Non Disclosure Agreement you aren't allowed to go posting stuff on forums, that is why it's called a NON Disclosure Agreement and not a SOME Disclosure Agreement.

chaospantz
06-05-2011, 20:39
Right now it sounds like the Necron wont drop untill around august/september. I think ill wait untill i see what rumors we have around July before i start freaking out about how much im going to have to spend. On a side note though, on my own ive picked up a enough warrior boxes to push my 48 that are done up to 60 with a couple extra guys lying around. Still gona wait to put the scarabs together though as their larger bases may end up sporting my immortals.

Voss
06-05-2011, 21:27
THAT is not the point, it's not as if you can switch them out without damaging the paint job. Look at the composition of a full Space Marine Tactical squad, up to 7 marines will always have Bolters, 1 has a special weapon, 1 has a heavy weapon, and 1 sergeant. If you want the way a 10 man unit of Space marines works you change 1-3 miniatures. If you want to change how a 10 man unit of Necron Warriors works you'll have to change 10 miniatures if there are three aditional colors you'll need 40 miniatures for all the options, for Space Marines, more like 20. Then there is that points wise 10 SM = 15+ Warriors, while Warriors will probably end up costing the same as SM (10 for $37.25). SM Scouts do have a couple of options, but atleast they are different weapons and not some easily produced different color rods. You can even magnetize most arms, I don't see much use doing that for most SM, but I do it for my Terminators. Can't magnetize colored rods...


If it comes to that, there is always paint. After getting four different variations of green in various Necron boxed sets over the years, I actually painted over mine anyway. I find they look much better painted to match the mini, rather than some cheesy lego effect.

Different colored rods changing the profile of the basic weapon sounds absurdly unlikely anyway.

Captain Idaho
06-05-2011, 21:30
I feel it's obvious why someone would want to take Warriors in a list! 10 costs a mere 120pts, so for 3 scoring units I can have 10 Immortals and 20 Warriors for 410pts, whilst it is 100pts more for the Immortals. Sure the Immortals are better, but the Warriors are still pretty survivable even with 4+ saves. That 100pts can go on some juicy stuff, and let's be honest there will be so much in the army we want to put that 100pts into.

Reflex
06-05-2011, 21:48
I just want to say warriors and fearless is as bad for the fluff as the 5ed way combat resolution works for crons. Stubborn is a middleground but either way 5ed does not work for necrons combat resolution and therefore warriors do not work as intended. They will hall back If they have to, 5th does not allow this. Stubborn is a middleground that can represent how necrons fight in cc better. But to be honest ATSKNF would prob represent them better. Oh no he didn't! Yes I did.

Edit: fixed

S00N3R FR3AK
06-05-2011, 21:58
And as far as the tomb blades from yakface's rumor we better get models for those if they exist. That is too cool of a unit not to have. I would have no problem setting aside all my destroyers to use those things.

Kelvan
06-05-2011, 22:42
And as far as the tomb blades from yakface's rumor we better get models for those if they exist. That is too cool of a unit not to have. I would have no problem setting aside all my destroyers to use those things.

Did I missed something or we only know that this is jetbike unit?

Kervin
06-05-2011, 22:51
And as far as the tomb blades from yakface's rumor we better get models for those if they exist. That is too cool of a unit not to have. I would have no problem setting aside all my destroyers to use those things.
Or GW will pull another cranafex by nuffing the destroyers and over priceing them to push the tomb blades.

Morganstern
06-05-2011, 23:16
Personally I hope that some of these rumours prove to be false. I would have no problem with warriors saves being reduced to 4+ if WBB was still 4+, or if WBB is 5+ and their save stayed at 3+. Really as the WBB rule is described so far, it appears less effective than it is now. I don't think that these rules portray the spirit of Necrons.

S00N3R FR3AK
06-05-2011, 23:29
Did I missed something or we only know that this is jetbike unit?

It's from yakkface under FA on the 1st page.

Mike3791
07-05-2011, 00:05
I don't at all believe the AS changes to necrons, I don't ever recall GW making such a big change to the core stats of a unit.. especially in a negativiely way. Also rumors are saying that immortals are getting bigger so I don't understand why they would be getting weaker.

Voss
07-05-2011, 01:16
I don't at all believe the AS changes to necrons, I don't ever recall GW making such a big change to the core stats of a unit.. especially in a negativiely way. Also rumors are saying that immortals are getting bigger so I don't understand why they would be getting weaker.

Then it would shock you to know that Space Wolf Blood Claws were once WS 5.
No upgrades, no characters, 5 base.

brassangel
07-05-2011, 01:29
I don't at all believe the AS changes to necrons, I don't ever recall GW making such a big change to the core stats of a unit.. especially in a negativiely way. Also rumors are saying that immortals are getting bigger so I don't understand why they would be getting weaker.

Why don't you compare the stats of a 2nd edition Ork Boy to the ones that exist now.

Genestealers used to have 4A base.

The Avatar used to be 300 points.

Voss already pointed out the reduction in WS to Blood Claws.

Grey Knights used to be WS5 if I'm not mistaken.

So yes, GW has made these changes in the past. You are just plain wrong. And these changes make sense for what Necrons are supposed to be.

MajorWesJanson
07-05-2011, 02:11
Or GW will pull another cranafex by nuffing the destroyers and over priceing them to push the tomb blades.

Destroyers are getting a new kit with normal and heavy options. it would be counterproductive to nerf a unit you are selling new models for. Or at least plastic models, the pyrovore and Venomthrope were metal...

Joewrightgm
07-05-2011, 03:55
My thoughts on this as a long time necron player (they were my only army for almost 4 years) is that I'm very very interested to see some of these rumors come true.

I think people are lashing out because its an almost 10 year old codex and anything new is different and dangerous.

But what I think is that instead of being a 'fringe' codex for a 'fringe' race, we will get a proper army that shows off the horror and madness that a full Necron amry can bring to the field.

Count me in.

Balerion
07-05-2011, 07:05
And as far as the tomb blades from yakface's rumor we better get models for those if they exist. That is too cool of a unit not to have. I would have no problem setting aside all my destroyers to use those things.
+1

I'm also salivating at the conversion potential that appears to exist between Necrons and all the new Tomb Kings stuff.


Destroyers are getting a new kit with normal and heavy options. it would be counterproductive to nerf a unit you are selling new models for. Or at least plastic models, the pyrovore and Venomthrope were metal...
Well, Raveners got a plastic kit too...

Castigator
07-05-2011, 07:58
Well, Raveners got a plastic kit too...

Actually... the entire Tyranid release disproves the assumption that GW is writing rules to sell models :angel:

Than again, if Cruddace is getting a penny for every Valkyrie sold, he's long passed beyond any worldly concerns like money anyhow.