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Ironmonger
08-05-2011, 06:14
Ok, this is just kind of a fun little questionnaire about one of the best games ever conceived and produced by GW, and one who's rules are STILL not up on the Specialist Games tab on the GW site: Man O'War! For those of you who know me or have read one of my threads here, I'm a HUGE fan/supporter of MoW, but it seems as though it's very difficult to find players to even give it a try. Probably the single most common complaint about why some people are hesitant to dive on in is the "not supported/models are hard to find" excuse, but after playing, collecting, scouring ebay, and tracking down proxy sellers for about 7 months now, that excuse just plain runs thin.

So... why aren't you playing? And, if you are, why aren't others?

Oh, and Admin... could we maybe get a dedicated forum for Man O'War in the SG area? Even Space Hulk and Aeronautica Imperialis have their own forums! MoW has a basic box and then 2 official expansions encompassing a dozen fleets. Pretty please? :bateyelashes:

Satan
08-05-2011, 07:07
I guess, according to my experience, the game is too expensive (especially the basic rules), and that's IF you manage to find it... and it's hard/impossible to find other players. I think BFG is hard enough to find other players for and my guess would be that BFG is far more popular than Man O'War.

But yes, it's a great game. And I wish they'd continue the production of some of thoe models...

BigRob
08-05-2011, 08:27
Problems with MoW....

Well you need two tables, one to play and one to hold all the cardboard. That is the biggest problem with MoW, you need about 3 copies of the main game if you want to play any decent sized games. With all those tokens and counters about the place it quickly clogs up and the firsts sneeze sends everything flying.

Next problem is the models, alot of people are not prepared to pay out on eBay and its only with careful watching and waiting you get models for anything less than ludicrous value. Spartan Games has helped in this regard, some of thier stuff makes good stand ins but try finding Dark Elves anywhere, you will be waiting a long time to build that fleet unless you get lucky.

Should it have its own forum on here....maybe, but WHQ got its own one and thats pretty dead, along with Bo5A and a coupel of the other SGs.

MoW is a good game, there are several strong support groups on the web and lots of house rules and such flying round, I've done loads myself and there are plenty more out there.

Ironmonger
08-05-2011, 15:59
@BigRob: Aren't you playing with the cards Universal Head did? They're just like Warmachine, and makes playing the game go from a logistics headache to nothing flat. We've even been trying to adopt the basic concept to BFG.

I personally have never really had a problem with acquiring the models from either ebay or GFTC, but I was patient, and was able to get a pretty huge lot for cheap. The game itself appears regularly, and some may ask ridiculous amounts on ebay for it, but ignore those, and before long one will come up for $40-$75. Getting the box is it's own thing though. With the UH cards and ships, all you need to do is track down or borrow the rules to get stuck in pretty quick.

BigRob
08-05-2011, 20:47
No, I havn't played properly for a good many years.

Where are these cards you mention?

Ironmonger
08-05-2011, 23:35
http://www.headlesshollow.com/downloads/games/MOWshipcards_v2.3.pdf

They work really well, and really clear up space for the game to play out, nice and simple. It's more then worth it to have a bunch printed out.

Easy E
09-05-2011, 15:29
Because I have a hard enough time getting people to play other niche game systems as it is. Not many are willing to invest in a game that can be rather resource intesive to get going.

Kulgur
04-07-2011, 23:25
Because I have a hard enough time getting people to play other niche game systems as it is. Not many are willing to invest in a game that can be rather resource intesive to get going.

^^ This. I can't even get a game of blood bowl where I am

Roguebaron
04-07-2011, 23:38
I still play, and have several navies painted, but it is getting hard to find oponents in my area willing to go up against the dwarf armada.

Easy E
11-07-2011, 17:15
I saw a box of Man O War and a few fleets go up for sale at one of my FLGS store.

Used, but I was still shocked.

Ironmonger
11-07-2011, 17:47
I saw a box of Man O War and a few fleets go up for sale at one of my FLGS store.

Used, but I was still shocked.

Get it, old son!

Eternus
14-07-2011, 12:16
http://www.headlesshollow.com/downloads/games/MOWshipcards_v2.3.pdf

They work really well, and really clear up space for the game to play out, nice and simple. It's more then worth it to have a bunch printed out.

Thanks! Really, thanks a bunch! I've been looking for something along these lines for ages. Now I can start cleaning up my fleets (Empire, Dwarf, Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, Bretonnian and Dark Elf).

Avast me hearties! Arrgh!

AndrewGPaul
14-07-2011, 12:59
I've got a High Elf and Dwarf fleet somewhere for Man O' War. If I were going to use them, I'd probably cobble something out of Uncharted Seas, Trafalgar or Battlefleet Gothic. There's too much fiddling with the Man O' War rules as they stand.

I liked the initial fleets that were released - the human, elf and dwarf fleets. The others fell into the 4th edition Warhammer "goofy" period.

Eternus
14-07-2011, 13:02
We played Man O War for several years with the rules just as they are and always enjoyed it, never had any problems, apart from one time a smart **** High Elf player tried to ram my Black Ark with his Dragon Ship - didn't know how to deal with a ship that survives this kind of attack, so we decided it got stuck on the prow of the Black Ark - not a good place to be!

Geep
14-07-2011, 13:14
I've collected about 4 fleets so far- getting the models isn't hard. I've almost got all of the cardboard for them too. It does take some dedicated ebay watching though.
I've played one test game against my usual gaming opponent, and he wasn't too impressed. At some point I'll have to try again, or try it with others- by having mutliple fleets I should easily find opponents (the same reason I have multiple armies for every game I play- including every SG game). Not a cheap way to do this unfortunately...

myrdinn
14-07-2011, 14:28
It's a great game but I don't own any of the kit and it's currently behind hordes, infinity, malifaux, dystopian wars, dwarf king's hold on my "to-buy" list.

Plus I wonder if all the Spartan games have made it kinda redundant, since they're all actually supported by the company that made them, might get some new minis at some point etc.

I did play BFG for the first time in ages the other day and really enjoy it though.

DarthSte
14-07-2011, 14:34
I missed the boat on it. (*blushes*). And it's just too expensive and hit and miss to get the models from eBay these days.

Zakspeed
14-07-2011, 14:44
well it *might* get slightly more easy to play if this is true:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/07/rumors-mystery-box-man-o-war-returns.html

but it might be a rework of the rules specifically for the components and the rumour says standalone with only 2 fleets and no further support......
although that doesnt stop the old fleets being added quickly with a bit of tweaking...

my fave game of all time....
for a still active group try:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/theseaofclaws/

Eternus
14-07-2011, 15:16
Can anyone direct me to the rules for the Undead Fleet at all please?

AndrewGPaul
14-07-2011, 21:19
Citadel Journal issue 6.

http://www.gamehobby.net/citadel_journal/citadel_journal_06.html

ForgottenLore
14-07-2011, 22:48
Well, to answer the OP's original question....

I got a hold of copy once upon a time and felt the game had pretty crappy rules so I never bothered to try and get anyone to play it.

Now, a statement like that is going to spark a bunch of questions from people about what I didn't like about it, but I can't answer them. It was 10+ years ago and I don't remember any specifics about the game, just that I was unimpressed. Sorry.

Eternus
15-07-2011, 08:12
Well, to answer the OP's original question....

I got a hold of copy once upon a time and felt the game had pretty crappy rules so I never bothered to try and get anyone to play it.

Now, a statement like that is going to spark a bunch of questions from people about what I didn't like about it, but I can't answer them. It was 10+ years ago and I don't remember any specifics about the game, just that I was unimpressed. Sorry.

Do you still have it, and of so, would you consider giving it another go? If not, I would happily give your copy a good home. I won't even charge for taking it away for you. ;)

ForgottenLore
15-07-2011, 14:23
Do you still have it, and of so, would you consider giving it another go? If not, I would happily give your copy a good home. I won't even charge for taking it away for you. ;)

You are the soul of generosity ;) but no, I don't still have it. I have the box and a few of the cardboard islands still, but that is it.

Eternus
15-07-2011, 17:03
The pity about Man O War is that even of you could download the rules from Specialist Games, you still have to print off a load of ship templates, the worlds supply of tokens and magic cards, and even shooting templates and wind direction template. There's just so much stuff needed to play apart from models, even more than with Blood Bowl I think.

Ironmonger
16-07-2011, 00:05
Sigh.

I keep saying this... you DON'T need all those cumbersome templates. All you need are the AWESOME cards made by Universal Head.

And as for the rules being "crappy," maybe go back through and check them out. I'd say they're the best basic rule set put out by GW.

Eternus
16-07-2011, 03:30
Sigh.

I keep saying this... you DON'T need all those cumbersome templates. All you need are the AWESOME cards made by Universal Head.

And as for the rules being "crappy," maybe go back through and check them out. I'd say they're the best basic rule set put out by GW.

What about all the damage tokens and blaze tokens, plus all the crew tokens, then there are the wreckage and sinking ship tokens...what about those? Is it intended for you to pencil onto the UH cards and use an eraser to change stuff?

BigRob
16-07-2011, 09:02
What about all the damage tokens and blaze tokens, plus all the crew tokens, then there are the wreckage and sinking ship tokens...what about those? Is it intended for you to pencil onto the UH cards and use an eraser to change stuff?

Easier to use a laminater and a wipe clean marker probably. And that would in alot of ways make sense and solve the old "Game over at the slightest breeze" issues.

Eternus
17-07-2011, 14:28
So is there actually a Man O' War following to speak of here, because I for one would support a sub forum on Warseer? I'd love to read about people's tactics, list selection, home made scenarios and especially battle reports, as well as a gallery to display our various fleets.

BigRob
17-07-2011, 15:37
It seems to have its moments, someone did a fansite/forum for it off thier own back which was lively for about half a year before fading away.

TBH if Battle of Five Armies has a sub forum, I think MOW and Gorkamorka are well overdue!

Eternus
17-07-2011, 16:28
It seems to have its moments, someone did a fansite/forum for it off thier own back which was lively for about half a year before fading away.

TBH if Battle of Five Armies has a sub forum, I think MOW and Gorkamorka are well overdue!

And having a sub forum will hopefully rekindle interest in the game, especially if it is balanced and covers a variety of aspects of the game.

AndrewGPaul
17-07-2011, 18:16
The pity about Man O War is that even of you could download the rules from Specialist Games, you still have to print off a load of ship templates, the worlds supply of tokens and magic cards, and even shooting templates and wind direction template. There's just so much stuff needed to play apart from models, even more than with Blood Bowl I think.

That's basically the reason why it's not available from the Specialist Games site. When the PDFs originally went up, I think they only chose games that only needed the rulebook and templates, dice, etc which you could find in 40K and/or Warhammer. That's why Necromunda got a new edition - to remove Sustained Fire dice, non-D6 dice and the old template sizes.

Eternus
17-07-2011, 18:37
That's basically the reason why it's not available from the Specialist Games site. When the PDFs originally went up, I think they only chose games that only needed the rulebook and templates, dice, etc which you could find in 40K and/or Warhammer. That's why Necromunda got a new edition - to remove Sustained Fire dice, non-D6 dice and the old template sizes.

Though Necromunda does benefit from having the various tokens to remind you of what is happening with each model, and Blood Bowl is supported, that uses a pitch that you can't just download as a pdf from Specialist Games!

Oh, and while surfing the seven seas, came across this (http://natfka.blogspot.com/2011/07/specialist-game-release-man-o-war-this.html).

Easy E
18-07-2011, 08:54
I won't believe it until I see it.

As for counters, most of those issues can be taken care of with a bit of white board, a laptop, or scrap paper. I actual prefer to keep tokens off the board where possible. I prefer a relatively clean play area.

I think it might help the game is someone made some templates/counters that could be used to play while you sourced models. The easier it is for people to see how the game plays, the easier it is to get people interested.

Eternus
18-07-2011, 14:38
I won't believe it until I see it.

As for counters, most of those issues can be taken care of with a bit of white board, a laptop, or scrap paper. I actual prefer to keep tokens off the board where possible. I prefer a relatively clean play area.

I think it might help the game is someone made some templates/counters that could be used to play while you sourced models. The easier it is for people to see how the game plays, the easier it is to get people interested.

Well being as the interaction between models is 2 dimentional between their footprints, rather than using the height of the models, this is perfectly feasible.

Zakspeed
19-07-2011, 08:37
I think it might help the game is someone made some templates/counters that could be used to play while you sourced models. The easier it is for people to see how the game plays, the easier it is to get people interested.

try the sea of claws yahoo group - there are files there which have 2d top down and 3d 'box proxy' counters made of photos of most of the fleets for exactly this reason....

tsv
19-07-2011, 20:15
I've been wanting to get into Man O' War for quite a while, but can't really afford to start a new game, regardless of whether it's easy or not to get hold of. With these cards and the templates mentioned on the Yahoo! group, would it just be the rulebook needed or something else too?

Eternus
20-07-2011, 05:37
I've been wanting to get into Man O' War for quite a while, but can't really afford to start a new game, regardless of whether it's easy or not to get hold of. With these cards and the templates mentioned on the Yahoo! group, would it just be the rulebook needed or something else too?

There are also the range templates and the wind template. The wind template just shows the direction of the wind, the four points of the compass. There are two range rulers, one which is 12" long and one which is 9" long, each split into 3" sections - I expect you could make these out of card. I don't think there's much else.

tsv
20-07-2011, 08:58
There are also the range templates and the wind template. The wind template just shows the direction of the wind, the four points of the compass. There are two range rulers, one which is 12" long and one which is 9" long, each split into 3" sections - I expect you could make these out of card. I don't think there's much else.

Great cheers, hopefully I'll get a nice homemade setup for this fairly soon then! And slowly replace it with stuff from eBay. (Or, if those rumours somehow, beyond belief, prove true, from GW).

Ironmonger
22-07-2011, 02:34
What about all the damage tokens and blaze tokens, plus all the crew tokens, then there are the wreckage and sinking ship tokens...what about those? Is it intended for you to pencil onto the UH cards and use an eraser to change stuff?

Did you take a look at the cards? They play JUST like Warmahordes, and take the game from the age of "counters on counters on templates on templates" that some of us remember (thru rose-tinted glasses;)), to a fast paced, easy to record naval combat game.

Print out the cards, laminate/put them in sleeves, and go to town!

Eternus
22-07-2011, 11:49
Did you take a look at the cards? They play JUST like Warmahordes, and take the game from the age of "counters on counters on templates on templates" that some of us remember (thru rose-tinted glasses;)), to a fast paced, easy to record naval combat game.

Print out the cards, laminate/put them in sleeves, and go to town!

Ah right, I see. That covers all the crew, damage and blaze tokens alright. I suppose you don't even need sunk counters really, just leave ships in place with some cotton wool smoke on them for a couple of turns and then remove them.

Hubman
17-08-2011, 08:52
While I have about 1.83 complete sets of MoW (and 1 each of Plague Fleet and Sea of Blood) and well over a hundred original ships, I've not played a game in about 12 to 14 years!:wtf:

It's a shame really, but when the game was current in the nineties, we played it more often than WFB (which introduced me to GW), but that is a long time ago. Back then, I only played Dwarfs, but now I've taken an interest in other fleets like Empire, Bretonnia and High Elves - I have well over 20 ships for each fleet. Nowadays I don't play because I live in the Netherlands and don't know anybody who currently still plays. I do know a few former opponents who might be interested in a game or two should I take the initiative.

In the past years I managed to purchase 90% of my collection on Ebay, sometimes for surprisingly little! When I have painted up at least a single fleet I might start looking for opponents.

I like the rules very much but I must admit that certain things annoyed me to no end and it was obvious that certain fleets were poorly designed (Orcs), needed some tweaks (Dwarfs) or were just over the top (Chaos). The original box was pretty good, but the expansions introduced significant problems - I hope the September mystery box is about MoW and addresses these issues without reducing the fun of the gameplay.

So, I'm not playing now, but have a heart to and would as soon as certain conditions changed.:)

P.S.: I too would like to see a separate subforum for MoW on the SG page of Warseer!

Kind regards,

Hubman