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View Full Version : orc boyz, box of fail



bishamon_o
08-05-2011, 11:55
Haveing finally started that orcs and goblin army people have been pushing me to start, i bought the 10 man orc box to push my 19 orcs ( which i once bought for a reason i cant remember ) to 8th edition size.

now my original unit comprised of hand weapons and shields.
however in trying to assemble these orcs in the same way i came across some weird problems:

1. there are 11 torsos and legs in the box ( and one boar boy one, but that was also in the 19 orc one)

not much of a problem, however these are:

2. there are only 9 right handed hand weapons in the box, i had to arm the last one with a musicians drumstick for crying out loud.

3. there are only 9 damn shields in the box ( 8 normals and the champion one), some tournaments i went to are really anal about their WYSIWYG. one model not armed accordingly is 0 points.

who came up with this thing?

also, OT, but related because it is fail.
new white dwarf, about the TK,
"their the only army that can have units of chariots"...... ehm, wolf chariots? really? they allready forgot the previous fantasy army book they made?

The bearded one
08-05-2011, 12:07
I believe there are 4 Orc boyz with according legs, arms, heads etc. per frame, so I guess they removed 2 frames. The orc boy box has always been a bit odd. I've got one too.

I think those tournaments don't want a chap armed with a spear in a handweapon unit. They wouldn't freak out over a musician drumstick as handweapon, or cutting the shaft off a spear and using the top portion as handweapon, would they? If they did.. that would be beyond anal..

Asensur
08-05-2011, 12:27
It's a pain to only have 8 "normal" orcs in the box (8 spears, 8 shields, 8 weapons, 8 aditional weapons, etc).

If you decide to use weapon and shield, i suggest you to buy orcs mini-set.

Okuto
08-05-2011, 16:12
just the fact that they only packaged 10 orcs a box is madness

Leogun_91
08-05-2011, 19:23
3. there are only 9 damn shields in the box ( 8 normals and the champion one), some tournaments i went to are really anal about their WYSIWYG. one model not armed accordingly is 0 points.I'm sure this isn't what you mean but that way of saying it leads to:
"How can you afford that many models in your army?"
"Well those Bestigors have bows, the chaos giant wields a cannon and the gors use brace of pistols....so they are all 0pts."
"Ah...I see"


On a more serious note orc shields are available from Mail Order at a reasonable price.
It is bad that there aren't enough weapons there but I can explain it, the sprues always came in 4 orcs per sprue and a 3 orc command sprue, now to get 10 they took two sprues and a command sprue.

wizbix
08-05-2011, 19:29
i had to arm the last one with a musicians drumstick for crying out loud.




Does he still get the choppa rule? LOL ;)

cerabrus25
08-05-2011, 20:02
I have run into this problem as well I just got some extra bits off ebay's horde o bits. I was kinda wondering about the tourney weapon thing as well, my savage orcs have bows, and hand weapons and I glue a second weapon to them. Do you think I would be allowed to field them with 2 choppas in that case?

Skywave
08-05-2011, 20:08
That's one of the reason why I can't wait for GW to phase out those old 5th edition multi-part kit ASAP and get new models for them. All of those are done with the old "4 per rank" mentality, so that's why you get sprue of 4, and box of 8 cavalry. I'm glad the TK Skeletons box is so unwieldy in therm of sprue layout that they couldn't alter the content, so those starting the army could at least get all the part needed from it.

I understand that GW, and most palyer including me, prefer getting more metal-to-plastic, but those old kit desperatly need to go. It would be cool if for exemple, 1 kit per army release would be used to replace an old one, or if they could release a few kit in independent wave, like they did with Orc Boar Boyz (or pair a few kit from different army for a mini wave, like Empire Knights with Goblin Wolf Rider for exemple, kinda like a VS wave), but for now we are stuck with them, possibly for a long time.

cool-kid-on-the-block
09-05-2011, 11:35
its madness that the box is 18 and makes 10 of your core infantry.

i think that that is the real gripe here.

yabbadabba
09-05-2011, 11:41
I thought Wolf Rider Chariots had become a single model choice now? Even with two doesn't make them a unit like the TK with command unit etc.

As for the model kits, its better than it was in the old days, but no doubt it will get better.

Lorcryst
09-05-2011, 11:52
You can make units of up to three Wolf Chariots with the 8th ed O&G book, but the usefulness of that is still up for debate ... personnaly I think that three separate Wolf Chariots are better than an unit of three Wolf Chariots ...

On topic, the "new", recut Orc Boyz box is dire indeed, luckily for me I play Night Goblins :p

RTGamer
09-05-2011, 14:34
Let me know if you need some right arms I have a few (I think)...

Changing this box to a 10 man box was silly and has probably hurt the company more than anything.

Malorian
09-05-2011, 14:37
It really was a silly move.

Looking at the savage box that has so many options it's too bad that they didn't do the same thing with the orc box.

It's ok that they went to 10 models to bring it in line with the other kits but you have to make sure that you aren't cutting anything short.


Look for old boxes if you can. There are still some out there to be had.

AlphariusOmegon20
09-05-2011, 15:26
IIRC that Orc Boy sprue is the same sprue that was cut for 5th or 6th ed. They never changed the sprue, they just repackaged it for a later Ed. .

Hence, why it is so oddball.

Jetty Smurf
10-05-2011, 04:49
I would at least recommend contacting GW. I'm sure they know about this, but it is possible they just need to know the issues people are having in order to do something about it.

It's a bit unreasonable to expect people to buy and enjoy a product that is clearly lacking. Especially one that can be (seemingly) easily fixed.

scarletsquig
10-05-2011, 06:44
I'm sticking to mantic for my orcs.

The models cost half as much and they look meaner.. they're a good size too, just as big as the GW orcs, but without the gorilla proportions.

Here's a good comparison pic:

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt46/kingsleypark/cbf67ceb.jpg

Asensur
10-05-2011, 07:28
Not conviced with Mantic...:eyebrows:

Best option we have is to make two units of Orc Boyz with different equipment, so we have enough weapons.

Also, if you're planning to make a hand weapon and shield unit, the 4 boyz box is your best option (cheaper too)

Leogun_91
10-05-2011, 10:45
http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt46/kingsleypark/cbf67ceb.jpgAt times I feel that GW puts a high price tag and might not give that much higher quality than other companies. Then someone puts a link to mantic and I feel glad I use GW models.

Honestly with that kind of models I'd ask my opponent to proxy empty bases.

Lorcryst
10-05-2011, 10:58
I find Mantic models nausea-inducing, and that comparison pic cemented the point for me : GW orcs are probably a rip-off, but I won't buy cheap crap anyway ...

BTW, no offense meant, this is just my opinion on Mantic models, not the Word of God, neither The Law, feel free to like those lumps of plastic.

Tokamak
10-05-2011, 11:01
its madness that the box is 18 and makes 10 of your core infantry.

i think that that is the real gripe here.

At least they could've made the models solid gold.

Morkash
10-05-2011, 11:05
I like Mantic's Undeads, but their Orcs do not convince me at all, I'm afraid. That they are even smaller than the GW ones doesn't help. :/ To each his own of course, Mantic's price tag is a lot more reasonable, the Undead Battalion is without comparison in its price. For cheap GW Orcs either buy private used stuff or the small 4 Orc Boxes from DarkSphere or Wayland.

Lastly, I'm glad I already got heaps of GW Orcs, no need for more. (except maybe some 6th edition starter contents...;))

Spiney Norman
10-05-2011, 11:52
its madness that the box is 18 and makes 10 of your core infantry.

i think that that is the real gripe here.

The real irony is that I consider the savage orc box to be a fair price because the models are new and shiny and not old and crappy.

shelfunit.
10-05-2011, 11:55
Rather sad to see the comments about Mantic's orcs on here - they are without question far superior in both design and quality to GW's overpriced, (apparently) under equipped, steroid abusing gorillas.
The GW orc kit was always a bit strange - 19 :confused: in a world which (then) ranked in 4's - now this. It shows at best total disregard for the customer and a lack of pride in their work, and at worst a snide, money grabbing attitude that forces you to buy several kits, just to make that which should be all in one. Currently nothing would make me buy any of GW's orc or undead range again.

Lorcryst
10-05-2011, 12:17
Rather sad to see the comments about Mantic's orcs on here - they are without question far superior in both design and quality to GW's overpriced, (apparently) under equipped, steroid abusing gorillas.
<snip>


We'll have to agree to disagree then, for me the Mantic orcs look like brutes with a stupid, drooling look and too small heads, I find the "hulking gorilla" a much better look for the greenskins that are a trademark of GW ...

I know that Orcs were first "invented" by Tolkien, but those are not hulking brutes like the greenskins we've come to love from the descriptions in twenty years of GW books ...

Frankly, I'm surprised that Mantic hasn't run into copyright lawsuits, their stuff is a blatant copy of GW models, they even use the same painting schemes for Pete's sake, and in my eyes they are NOT of superior quality ... they're cheap and ugly.

Cheap is a quality on its own I guess, but when I started this hobby twenty years ago I knew it wasn't cheap ... on the contrary, I was ready to pay a premium for high quality models and support throughout the years.

Rosstifer
10-05-2011, 12:37
We'll have to agree to disagree then, for me the Mantic orcs look like brutes with the Down Syndrome and too small heads, I find the "hulking gorilla" a much better look for the greenskins that are a trademark of GW ...

I'm sure your not trying to be offensive, but I always get riled up when people use mental disability's as a negative connotation. I'd really rather you edited that, some us have family members who are, or work with, disabled people.

Lorcryst
10-05-2011, 13:26
@Rosstifer : I suffer from a disability myself, but for the sake of political correctness I've edited my post ... still find those Mantic orcs ugly tough :p

Rosstifer
10-05-2011, 13:33
still find those Mantic orcs ugly tough :p

Cheers Mate. Yes, Mantic has certainly gone for a.... unique aesthetic.

Little Joe
10-05-2011, 13:53
Well on their web page (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440079a&prodId=prod900162a) it says: "...to make 10 Orc Boyz armed with a variety of ...", so I guess they had the legal department taking care of not having to supply with extra parts.

The content is just silly. You should give customer service hell anyhow, if you are lucky you get more. If not hopefully GW will avoid this kind of nonsense in the future.

And for the record GW is too expensive even for acclaimed quality, Mantic has optics I do not like. But supplying yourself somewhere else (legally!) is not a crime, an army you like and can afford is what you want.
I am waiting to see some Avatars of War orcs by the way.

loveless
10-05-2011, 14:10
Wow, well done there, GW. Yet another reason to go savage if you're going for Orcs :p

shelfunit.
10-05-2011, 14:19
Well on their web page (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440079a&prodId=prod900162a) it says: "...to make 10 Orc Boyz armed with a variety of ...", so I guess they had the legal department taking care of not having to supply with extra parts.
.

They are telling the truth tho - the 10 models can be armed with a "variety" of weapons - just not the same weapons 10 time over...:D

Skyros
10-05-2011, 15:40
19 makes perfect sense.

In 5th edition, you got a box of 16 guys. 4 sprues of 4. There was a separate metal blister with command components (champion head & arm, standard bearer arm, musician arm, etc) to convert 3 of the 16 to command.

Along came 6th edition. New Box art, new packaging. The original sprues are unchanged, but now there is a separate plastic command sprue because they didn't want to keep doing the metal blisters. So you have your old 4 sprues of 4, plus the command sprue of 3. That's 19.

Now, when they decide to in 8th edition to drop the contents down to 10, you have problems, because you wind up with 8 normal orcs and 3 command orcs. (So 11, actually).

Malorian
10-05-2011, 15:42
Wow, well done there, GW. Yet another reason to go savage if you're going for Orcs :p

I like to think of it as a backwards way of rewarding vet players ;):angel:

eldargal
10-05-2011, 15:55
Hardly without question, it is entirely a subjective matter of taste. Unfortunately I think this is another release where Mantic have let the side down, its really been all downhill since their superb Undead release as far as I am concerned.

Having said that the Orc Boyz boc is stupid, I do hope they intend to update it soon.


Rather sad to see the comments about Mantic's orcs on here - they are without question far superior in both design and quality to GW's overpriced, (apparently) under equipped, steroid abusing gorillas.
The GW orc kit was always a bit strange - 19 :confused: in a world which (then) ranked in 4's - now this. It shows at best total disregard for the customer and a lack of pride in their work, and at worst a snide, money grabbing attitude that forces you to buy several kits, just to make that which should be all in one. Currently nothing would make me buy any of GW's orc or undead range again.

wilsongrahams
10-05-2011, 15:56
The reboxing of the orcs was the reason I've scrapped adding orcs to my night oblin army and not going beyond 2000pts.

The assembly difficulties are also experienced with the HE Phoenix Guard and Skaven Stormvermin. It's not the quantity of weapons a such but the way you are forced to use certain poses that make ranking up near impossible. Certain arms etc are usually only possible to use in a front rank and it's a shame because the new VC Grave Guard and Skeletons have all the options for making rear rank models. The older 6th ed High Elves also contain more than enough spears, including extras for the fancy poses. The newer models seem to have a mix of poses and weapons but force you to use exactly what is moulded - especially those Phoenix Guard and Stormvermin - you really do have to assemble them as shown on the box to rank them up.

Skyros
10-05-2011, 16:02
Oddly enough, I really dislike the Mantic undead but think the Mantic orcs are reasonable.

SpikeyChaosDwarf
10-05-2011, 16:57
Wow, not a lot of love here for the Mantic Orcs. I am indifferent to the infantry but the boar riders look great and I will consider them when I see the prices.

I think the current GW orcs look slightly better than the Mantic orcs but I don't know if they look twice as good, which is what they cost. For rank and file core troops I would be perfectly willing to drop GW and go over. Hell, my current orc army is a mix of everything from GW, Heartbreaker, BTD and others I am sure I have forgotten. I feel free to mix within the army but not within the unit. To each his own.

loveless
10-05-2011, 17:07
The Mantic Orc characters - the boar rider and the standard bearer were spectacular. Then they showed off the infantry and they just looked silly in an "I don't want to pay money for that" way. It's been downhill since the ghouls and zombies, though some of the dwarves are nice.

Orcs are a horde-ish unit, but the 25mm base screws with the sizing I guess. Really, a lot (if not all) of GW core units should follow the Skaven route: 20 core troops for $33.

scarletsquig
10-05-2011, 19:42
We'll have to agree to disagree then, for me the Mantic orcs look like brutes with the Down Syndrome and too small heads.

In all honesty, there probably would have been even more complaints if the models looked more like the GW ones. If they make their own style, people get annoyed that they don't fit with their GW models. If they copy GW style, people get annoyed at them for being uncreative ripoffs.

The internet in general provides enough of the latter opinion without the style of the models contributing to it.

As for the heads, mantic is definitely regular scale and not heroic scale. The heads are not too small, GW's are too large. They're not far off GW's old metal orcs in style, a lot of people are planning headswaps with GW orcs though, to make them fit in with their existing collection better. That's probably the most workable solution for people who don't want to pay GW prices but do want the models to look like GW orcs.

The one area they do need to work on is presentation, though... the first paint job they showed off the models with initially was terrible, as was the second attempt. I mean, yellow eyes and blue armour... colour schemes don't get much worse than that. The marketing and presentation was a massive fail on a scale rivaling GW's beastmen release.

Only on the third attempt (http://www.manticblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/orc-unit-fr-nl.jpg) did they come up with a paint job that actually made the models not look stupid... well, with the exception of the tophat head.. no paintjob can ever make that thing look good luckily you only get one of those horrible things in a box.Seeing them with a decent paintjob I now think they're nice models, but you only get one chance at a first impression and mantic blew theirs with their derp-eyed orc.

someone2040
11-05-2011, 00:35
Now, when they decide to in 8th edition to drop the contents down to 10, you have problems, because you wind up with 8 normal orcs and 3 command orcs. (So 11, actually).
The simple solution to this would've been to make the box a set of 15.
However, the issue here is (and always has been with the Orc kit), is you don't actually get enough arms/shields/etc in the box. It's always actually been a box of 16 + Command sprue, not actually a box of 19 boyz.

But basically, the repackaging of the Orc Boyz is a slap on the face. Many of us expected at least a sprue recut, but this obviously hasn't happened and all they have done is box less orcs for a tiny fraction less money and you end up with a unit where you can't even equipt them all with the same weapons.

Jetty Smurf
11-05-2011, 02:19
Only on the third attempt (http://www.manticblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/orc-unit-fr-nl.jpg) did they come up with a paint job that actually made the models not look stupid... well, with the exception of the tophat head.. no paintjob can ever make that thing look good luckily you only get one of those horrible things in a box.Seeing them with a decent paintjob I now think they're nice models, but you only get one chance at a first impression and mantic blew theirs with their derp-eyed orc.

That paint job makes the mantic orcs look really good. I am genuinely interested in these models now, whereas before I was at best indifferent. Cheers for that link. :)

Shimmergloom
11-05-2011, 02:37
Yeah that paint job made them look as good as the ages old gw ones.

The sprue pics for the great axe orcs look good too.

I bought a box of each plus the warlord crew from maelstrom. With the easter sale that was 50 orcs + 2 metal characters + 1 goblin sneak for around $65 bucks. 30 gw orcs + 20 black orcs +2 characters is around $190($152 with 20% off).

Huge difference.

eldargal
11-05-2011, 09:19
Hm they look like shaved skaven when painted.

TheNomadicCircle
11-05-2011, 16:00
Hm they look like shaved skaven when painted.

Hmm, they do not. GW's look like ugly as sin Orcs, these are much much better.

IcedCrow
11-05-2011, 16:23
I prefer Lord of the Rings orcs.

Malorian
11-05-2011, 16:55
I think the mantic orcs are ugly, but then again some people think my wife is ugly.

In the end it's best to remember we all have our own tastes before we open our mouths and lose our teeth.

eldargal
12-05-2011, 04:24
I'm glad you think so, but I do not share that opinion. I think they look like shaved skaven. I find them exceedingly lacking in comparison to the Orcs produced by GW or even AoW.


Hmm, they do not. GW's look like ugly as sin Orcs, these are much much better.

Horace35
31-05-2011, 11:59
Does anyone have a photo of some Mantic Orcs alongside some GW ones?

Just curious to see the size difference, need a unit to finish off my army.

tezdal
31-05-2011, 16:08
I prefer Lord of the Rings orcs.

Agreed! Although Im not super fond of Mantic orcs, or WHFB orcs, I must say I prefer the Mantic look to the comical look the WHFB orcs. Its a shame what GW did to the Orc boys box, and stuff like that really hurts my view of the company.

Leogun_91
31-05-2011, 22:03
Different people prefer Mantic or GW orcs and people doesn't change their opinions by short sentences on the web.
This discussion of their respective qualities (that's a very polite way of describing what people say of the different models) derails from the real topic (though that has probably been answered) and is an outright vs thread. It leads to nothing. People have already stated that GW orcs look to comical and mantic orcs look like shaved skaven, further discussion won't change anything.