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Calgar
31-03-2006, 09:01
The title speaks for itself.


Hi all
Are there any fluff at all about the mysterious black monoliths / pylons on the Cadian surface?
What are they for?
What iv heard from a GW staffer is that the whole idea of the 13th crusade is for Abaddon to capture these black monoliths and give them over to the 1ksons (for the greater good of Chaos):wtf:
This is neccessary to the 1ksons because that they can then launch a massive all-out webbway assult whit the goal of "breaking" into the Black Library to access the knowledge on where all of the Blackstone fortresses are situated in the galaxy ,and, how to fully activate them. (seems like Abaddon isnt capable of fully using them)


After watching the 2001 A Space Odyssey ( includes a mysterious black monolith found on the moonwitch is impenetrable) and the secuell 2010 The Year We Make Contact ( witch includes a huge monoligh orbiting the twin moons of Jupiter and are in the end involved in creating a sun out of Jupiter and some sort of Ultra fast terraforming on the surrounding worlds) could this be where GW have "found" their inspiration for the black monoliths on Cadia, are they there to actually create a hospitable planet out of barren planet, do they serve a purpouse, who put them there?:eyebrows:

BTW, Those movies is a must-see for you all 40k and sci-fi nutters:p

Cheers
Christian

Yodhrin
31-03-2006, 09:12
Hmm. Well, Ive never heard that story before, but that doesnt mean anything.

As I understand it, it's implied that the pylons were built by the Necrons/C'tan as a way to calm or attemp to seal off the warp in a given area. And it just so happens that the only surviving examples of the technology are on Cadia, conveniantly located to provide a stable corridor through the warp into Imperial space through the Eye of Terror.

Ive always thought the Black Crusade was more an attempt to break through the massively fortified Cadian sector and take control over this stable passage, allowing the forces of Chaos to bring massive raiding fleets through into realspace and attack the Imperium relatively uninhibited.

Cpt_Tiberius
31-03-2006, 11:43
In the 2nd Eisenhorn book there is a great deal about them and their function. Well worth reading (the whole series...)

Erriond
31-03-2006, 12:28
In the 2nd Eisenhorn book there is a great deal about them and their function. Well worth reading (the whole series...)

Really? I don't remember reading that, what was the gist of it?

Erriond

Bmaxwell
31-03-2006, 12:50
That they were all the same exact shape each sticked 2 miles into the ground and im not sure how far up. aslo the fact that they had small holes in them that never were able to be mapped because admech propes that were sent in would get lost in them. this cause for a allmost constant howling sound to be comeing form them

and in that book i think they aslo begun to crack.

my_name_is_tudor
31-03-2006, 13:04
They are most likely a component in the c'tans grand scheme for the galaxy, a mechanism for seperating the warp and the real world totally (not just warp disturbances, but psychic abilities, the works)

Ikkaan
31-03-2006, 13:24
The Eisenhorn Saga stated the following:

The pylons are scattered over Cadias Surface and are widely ignored by the cadian population. They are jet black, yet some seem to be of a dull finish (presumably some of the pylons arent working anymore). The surface has many holes in it and the wind makes strange noises sometimes. Scientists tried to measure the inside of the cavities, but servoskulls always vanish somewhere else when exploring the inner workings of the pylons (and do not come back so its safe to assume they were destroyed).

I would presume the cadians dont like to be near them, definitely not a place for a picnic.

ArtificerArmour
31-03-2006, 14:22
I've basically always believed the pylons were indeed made by the necrons/c'tan, originally to try and seal the eldar from leaving their terratories (and thus pretty much neutralising their threat). This was by calming the warp and effectively preventing warp travel. The necrons were defeated, the eldar fell, and the occularis terribus was made. I'm presuming the other pylons were:
a) never completed before the necrons hibernated
b) destroyed by the eldar/chaos/mon-keigh/orks/insert ignorant race or
c) have yet to be found.

Strikerkc
31-03-2006, 14:25
Threy're also the reason why abadon couldn't just go into cadia blasting things with the planet killer. If he destroyed cadia, the clear path out of the eye would shut.

To bad the imperium doesn't know about that. They'd start shelling every pylon they could find ;).

Ikkaan
31-03-2006, 15:10
The Cadian Gate is not the only stable corridor out of the Eye of Terror imho. Didnt Abbadon use an other exit for one of his crusades ?

Iracundus
31-03-2006, 15:18
The Cadian Gate is the only long term stable path that allows for large invasion forces and fleets to get out. There are other ways out of the Eye but they are either smaller, temporary, and/or require a lot more skill to navigate out, making them unsuitable for rapid huge movements of Chaos forces.

Flame Boy
31-03-2006, 15:45
I always thought from looking at the maps that the reason the Cadian Gate was brought about was because the Pylons subdued the effects of the Eye of Terror in the vicinity. I always assumed trying to break the pylons would result in the expansion of the Eye further into the Imperium.

The Eye did after all expand during the campaign and the Pylons were described as having aquired stress fractures...

Also, weren't there similar structures on the Sentinel worlds?

ryng_sting
31-03-2006, 15:49
Abaddon's crusade was to break through the Cadian gate to launch an assault on Earth. ('First the gate, then the palace'.) The pylons are a feature of Cadia built by the C'tan and the Necrons. They are part of their plan to shut the material world off from the warp. The pylons on Cadia, few as they are, quiten the warp enough to make a stable corridor from the Eye to the rest of the galaxy. There are other small gaps (the Arx gap, for example) but these are small, not always accessible, and much less stable than the Cadian gate: hence its enormous strategic importance.

The pylons on Cadia are stress fracturing, but fresh crops of them have suddenly appeared on the Sentinel worlds, and other nearby systems close to where the Necrons were fighting.

Calgar
31-03-2006, 16:04
Hmm, looks like wer getting somewhere.
But all this talk about Necrons having built the pylons to cut the material world of from the warp makes me woundering......why?:wtf:

Vosk
31-03-2006, 17:31
Hmm, looks like wer getting somewhere.
But all this talk about Necrons having built the pylons to cut the material world of from the warp makes me woundering......why?:wtf:

Easy. The galaxy is populated by races that (knowingly or not) have a symbiotic relationship with the Warp dimension. Cutting one off from the other will effectively render psychic activity impossible, annihilate the Chaos Gods as they exist now, cull the Eldar attempt to create a new god and (importantly) pacify the galaxy as a whole (since no Warp link = no "soul" for Human, Eldar etc, and no Soul means... well, we're not clear on that, but some would say a lot of the will to live/fight in the psychic races would vanish as they become shadows of their former selves).

The Pylons were also but one idea or part of this plan too - there is a large patch of space below the galactic disk in which this null effect already exists.

ArtificerArmour
31-03-2006, 17:31
The above is a satisfactory bi-product - but not the reason why.

The warp is poison to the c'tan, so if the universe became over run by the warp, they'd die.

biggreengribbly
31-03-2006, 19:41
It is a nice touch that if either of humanities greatest enemies took over, the other would die!

Of course, all the humans would be screwed but hey!

my_name_is_tudor
31-03-2006, 19:45
The above is a satisfactory bi-product - but not the reason why.

The warp is poison to the c'tan, so if the universe became over run by the warp, they'd die.

actually, there is nothing to suggest that the warp is 'poison' to the c'tan. Everything suggests that they cannpt perceive the warp, they cannot exist in it, and cannot understand it. I'm not sure it's even possible for the galaxy to be 'over run' by the warp.

The c'tan want to cut off the cattle races from their psychic crutch, thus crippling their confidence, and destroying all resistances they have against the c'tan and their necron armies.

Prior to the Old Ones creating psychic races, there was no warp presence in the real world, except for the machinations of the old ones, which were (apparently) largely non-aggressive features. The c'tan want a return to this time, they want to 'fix' the material world, so they can rule again as they once did.

Vosk
31-03-2006, 22:17
actually, there is nothing to suggest that the warp is 'poison' to the c'tan. Everything suggests that they cannpt perceive the warp, they cannot exist in it, and cannot understand it. I'm not sure it's even possible for the galaxy to be 'over run' by the warp.

The c'tan want to cut off the cattle races from their psychic crutch, thus crippling their confidence, and destroying all resistances they have against the c'tan and their necron armies.

Prior to the Old Ones creating psychic races, there was no warp presence in the real world, except for the machinations of the old ones, which were (apparently) largely non-aggressive features. The c'tan want a return to this time, they want to 'fix' the material world, so they can rule again as they once did.

Quite so. As with many supposed "facts" about the C'tan, the phrase "the Warp is anathema to the C'tan" is often misunderstood or developed too an illogical (though obviously quite attractive to many) conclusion. Which returns me to...


The above is a satisfactory bi-product - but not the reason why.

The warp is poison to the c'tan, so if the universe became over run by the warp, they'd die.

Based on what we actually know, I would disagree and say that what you term the bi-product is the actual reasoning behind the Last Great Work, so it is the reason why.

EarthScorpion
01-04-2006, 20:04
Well, the Talismans of Vaul, designed to kill (yes, permanantly) the Void Dragon, strongest of the C'tan were designed to shoot) a massive warp blast (like a D-cannon, but much, much bigger) at it, so we can see that the warp hurts (and by that I mean kills) the star-vampires.

Mind you, it kills everything else:skull:

Its like that thing about vampires and stakes through the heart; the nice thing about using stakes is that it works on normal people too, so if you still have some enemies left after the vampires are dead they don't go to waste :evilgrin:

Vosk
01-04-2006, 22:04
Well, the Talismans of Vaul, designed to kill (yes, permanantly) the Void Dragon, strongest of the C'tan were designed to shoot) a massive warp blast (like a D-cannon, but much, much bigger) at it, so we can see that the warp hurts (and by that I mean kills) the star-vampires.

Mind you, it kills everything else:skull:

Its like that thing about vampires and stakes through the heart; the nice thing about using stakes is that it works on normal people too, so if you still have some enemies left after the vampires are dead they don't go to waste :evilgrin:

Heh, where do you actually see the word "kill"? Or even "destroy"? Nowhere in the Dragon/Vaul cycle that's for sure. That sounds awfully petty/picky, but when it comes to the topic of the C'tan since we have so little real information everything has to be picked over carefully (a bad thing given the eh, quality of the fluff). For the record, D-Cannons and the Talismans do completely opposite things too - the D-Cannons/Wraith Cannons open a tear into the Warp and attempt to pull the target inside, where as the Blackstones channel a focused beam of Warp energy into our dimension.

I would liken the effect this would have on the C'tan to what happens when you have multiple Blackstones fire at a star for an extended period of time. The Warp energy interferes and disrupts the energies native to our dimension, and lacking cohesion the star goes nova as the reactions spiral out of control. Since a C'tan is simply organised energy (very similar to the stars that bore them), this is most likely how a Blackstone would be used to bring one down. Heh, I would also point out that a) we have no record of the Blackstones doing what they were intended to do, b) if they did then they either failed, for the Dragon endures, or c) they succeeded but the C'tan (the Dragon in the example here) was able to overcome the disruption and reorganise itself.

Of further note is that D-Cannon styled weaponry is not really that effective against the C'tan, for although it can rend apart the Necrodermis (in itself quite a feat), a lot of evidence points to the actual energy that constitutes a C'tan being unable to transfer from our dimension into the Warp. Hence Vaul's need to find a way to bring the Warp to the C'tan for the disrupting (killing, perhaps, maybe) effect (otherwise he or any of his fellow gods could simply have opened a nice big Warp portal under target C'tan and boom).

GarethXL
02-04-2006, 12:35
hmm a little off topic here but what effect does the C'tan have against races that had no affinity to the warp such as the orks and tau.

Neknoh
02-04-2006, 13:17
They eat them, suck up their energy, a blackout from the Warp wouldn't harm those two races particularly much, however, it would when the more souped up and unopposed C'Tan ate thier suns.

We must also remember that if the C'Tan would extend the Pariah effect throughout the galaxy, the Imperium would have no chance of defending itself aggainst anything, seeing as they rely heavely upon Warp Travel to actually reach worlds that are threatened and send reinforcements, they'd have no idea what was going on, every planet would be isolated untill distress calls would reach them as radiowaves through space, at which time, it would probably be too late due to the Necrons having invented Faster Than Light speed on their ships.

Also worth noting here is that the only real hope the Imperium have of destroying the Tyranids utterly is actually by blotting out the Warp from the Hive Fleets, this would render the nids helpless, unable to communicate with eachother and the Hive Mind.

Also, a blotting of the warp would mean no chaos.

So... it's either get eaten and killed but not knowing of it untill they hit you by the C'tan and Necrons or get eaten and killed by the Nids and Chaos but knowing a few months before they hit you

GarethXL
02-04-2006, 13:39
i was wondering could the old ones create the pylons so that it could shut out the warp from from the c'tan and to contain the warp in one place.

Neknoh
02-04-2006, 15:22
Why would the Old Ones have done ANYTHING to keep the warp away from the C'Tan?

Forbiddenknowledge
03-04-2006, 08:49
In one of the Eisenhorn Novels, the Arch Heretic, Quixos has built his own verison of the pylons, and, for want of a better word, fueling it with alpha+ level psykers.
His goal? If he had succeeded, and not been stopped by Eisenhorn, he would have destroyed the Eye of Terror........
(Course, that was what he thought. He had been corrupted all along by Chaos and probably would have increased the size, but the above was his intention.)
The pylons were designed to "calm the Warp" whether this means to fully destroy it, merely bring it under control, or neutralise it (not the same as destroy) I don't know.

Iracundus
03-04-2006, 09:27
I'm willing to bet even if he had been left alone, the Quixos project would not have succeeded in replicating the Necron pylons in effect. Given the state of the Imperium's technology, I can't see them successfully reverse engineering the Necron technlogy or mimicking it successfully within such a short span of time. Even then, the Necron pylons aren't fullproof against the full force of the Eye of Terror. During the EoT campaign, the Cadian pylons were suffering stress fractures and being destroyed by the magnitude of the warp storms. The pylons have limits and if the Necron built ones can't really hold back the Eye, then I can't see some Inquisitor's copycat version doing it.

my_name_is_tudor
03-04-2006, 10:29
hmm a little off topic here but what effect does the C'tan have against races that had no affinity to the warp such as the orks and tau.

Orks have plenty of affinity with the warp, they have two gods (who can manifest) and plenty of psykers (weird boys). The Tau have an extremely faint warp presence, just too small for psykers and mutations to occur.

Vosk
03-04-2006, 16:47
I'm willing to bet even if he had been left alone, the Quixos project would not have succeeded in replicating the Necron pylons in effect. Given the state of the Imperium's technology, I can't see them successfully reverse engineering the Necron technlogy or mimicking it successfully within such a short span of time. Even then, the Necron pylons aren't fullproof against the full force of the Eye of Terror. During the EoT campaign, the Cadian pylons were suffering stress fractures and being destroyed by the magnitude of the warp storms. The pylons have limits and if the Necron built ones can't really hold back the Eye, then I can't see some Inquisitor's copycat version doing it.

Quite so. But then the Pylons weren't designed to hold back the Eye. It's just (an annoying) coincidence that the Pylons happen to be near the Eye.

What I really wanted to do here though is agree with you on the Imperials having no chance of replicating Necron technology. There's an amusing passage in the Necron book which sees a Tech Adept pouring over reports on Necron technology and scratching his head in confusion. "They're doing THAT with a light skimmer?!" type stuff. Silly humans, :p

Lord of ???
04-04-2006, 03:22
Orks have plenty of affinity with the warp, they have two gods (who can manifest) and plenty of psykers (weird boys). The Tau have an extremely faint warp presence, just too small for psykers and mutations to occur.

Ork Weird Boyz don't use the warp they use Waagh! energy. The power exuded by Orks when they are in a group and going to battle.

Orks have no warp presence and are meant to be unable to be tainted but that all changed when we had the hidious Chaos Ork conversions appear.

Pilgrim
04-04-2006, 11:48
Ork Weird Boyz don't use the warp they use Waagh! energy. The power exuded by Orks when they are in a group and going to battle.

That is Warp energy though, it is just that the Orks psychic 'field' (for want of a better term) seems to enhance the Weirdboy's abilities, and allow him to access the Warp with greater ease. It seems to be similar in effect to a psychic dynamo. As Orks gather and become warlike they boost the Warp in close proximity, thus enabling psykers to draw more energy (although exactly how this energy might be generated is beyond my understanding)


Orks have no warp presence and are meant to be unable to be tainted but that all changed when we had the hidious Chaos Ork conversions appear.

Orks most certainly do have a Warp-presence, along with all other living creatures except Pariahs. The very fact that they have Weirdboy psykers, and exhibit low levels of psychic energy (although they are not psykers per se) testifies to that.

They can also be influenced by the Ruinous Powers. The three Rogue Trader Ork books made mention of this; ranging from Stormboys who followed Khorne, to daemonically possessed weirdboys, snotlings and so on, to Ork mutants. Orks were by no means immune to the influence of the Warp and the Ruionous Powers, although they were more resistant than most. Adrian Wood's Ork mutants were abominations, to be sure, but the fact they were frankly pants does not invalidate tainted Orks found elsewhere in the background.

Adrian

calicojack
04-04-2006, 12:51
As regards Orks and the "new idea of orks, chaos and the Warp" - I recommend checking out the older volumes Freebootaz and Waagh da Orks. Wierdboyz and Chaos Orks appear in those volumes. The idea has been for some time [since shortly after Rogue Trader] that the Orks were in fact highly psychic as a species, but that they are so focused that they do not contribute for the most part to the Four Great Powers. Instead, they have their own "Gods" in the Warp. Rare instances however, would lead to individual Orks being targeted by the Four Powers, and not being protected by the Ork Powers.

So, not so new.

**Edit** That is to say, sigh, what Pilgrim said... **Edit**