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Frankly
31-03-2006, 10:46
I've been told today(after being told that this will never happen)that SoC armylists won't be able to be used in Melbourne's(Australia)GT in the coming month.

Now, I've always heard that these armylists have been game tested, I was never going to take one of the lists, but I find at the very least, that its strange that GW has gone back on their word on the subject.

I was just wondering what other people think of this and if SoC armylists are allowed and/or played in your neck of the woods?

Alex Under
31-03-2006, 11:16
Whoever's spent 200-300 pounds on a SoC army and now sees that its useless at official tourneys is going to be quite angry... :( It's not my case though, here in Spain they're still allowed.

Wickerman71
31-03-2006, 12:50
I've always held that if you want to take part in public gaming or you want the army too see later support in following editions of the game; then play a main army book list. The SOC army lists may have been play tested, but how well where they tested when there were 10 lists in a single publication.

I don't like how GW has dealt with it's non army book published supplements. I am under the belief that if you expect people to buy a book as part of your game system it should be part of the game. Publications like SOC & Lustria cost us as much as a Warhammer Armies book; is it unreasonable to expect the same use out of them:confused:

Neknoh
31-03-2006, 13:03
Actually, GW specifikally said that the list WOULD be legal after the Storm of Chaos

EvC
31-03-2006, 13:30
Cor, can you imagine GW banning army lists like Speed Freeks in their 40K tournaments? It'd never happen! So why do they do the same for WH lists?

Of course, it is a different situation in that some of the SoC lists are absolutely horrible in tournament play (Slayers, damn you all to hell!), but then GW should have just forseen that, or at least made special exceptions, i.e. take away the ridiculous rule where Slayers gain victory points for dying to strong opponents. Okay, that's that rant over...

Akuma
31-03-2006, 13:51
Muhahahahhahhah ( diabolical loughter )

lord_blackfang
31-03-2006, 13:53
its strange that GW has gone back on their word

:eyebrows:
Like it's never happened before...

Trunks
31-03-2006, 17:29
I'd rather see tournaments disallow Skaven . . .

Ganymede
31-03-2006, 18:27
I'd prefer tournaments disallow whining.

sparky
31-03-2006, 18:30
I've always heard that these armylists have been game tested

You'd think, wouldn't you? Truth is, some of them were not.

Warhammer is unbalanced enough at tournament level without allowing a bunch of poorly-designed lists into the mix. Personally, I'm very glad they're going - it makes me feel more inclined to go to the next UK GT.

Latro
31-03-2006, 19:15
I would hate to lose my beloved Sylvanians (great army!), but on the other hand I would be cheering to see some of the horrors of that book go.

Maybe they'll add the succesful SoC lists to the new army-books for the 7th edition? One can always hope.

:cool:

ExquisiteEvil
31-03-2006, 19:37
I dont see the huge deal about the slayer list - Please someone point out to me how many of the larger tournaments the Slayers have won over the 2 years since SoC was released...In fact someone show me where ANY of the SoC lists have won tournaments...

I dont play an SoC list but I just think its totally unacceptable that GW have PRACTICALLY declared them obsolete and unofficial, after they said that this WOULD NOT be the case...

It would be like them cancelling Ogre kingdoms next year - I am sure that there is alot of players that would laugh at this and think they deserved to go, but what about all those players out there who have spent hundreds of pounds/dollars on an OK army only for GW to turn around and say''heck, we only published it 'for fun' - it was never supposed to be a supported army''

or even one of the longer standing armies like the tomb Kings or lizardmen???

see - its just plain f*+cked up.

Lastly more a question than a rant but where does this leave items/units in the SoC book that were usable by 'normal' armies??

I speak mainly of the Hell Cannon(which I do use in my nurgle mortal force) or the Dark Elf magic items list(which were intended as a needed 'fix' to the DE)...

???

Cyrush
31-03-2006, 20:06
Nooooo.........my poor poor beloved Eshin...only just finnished them.

Ragnar
31-03-2006, 20:10
Hopefully someone has the answer to this:

If storm of chaos lists are no longer usable in tournaments, will the eye of terror lists be allowed? I realise this is the fantasy forum, but in White Dwarf 315, Jervis Johnson said "we have campaign supplements like the Eye of Terror" Now storm of chaos also sounds like a campaign supplement to me. Hope this isn't true as it would really screw over both 13th company and lost and damned players, both of which have to convert up their entire armies. That and I have a lost and damned army of my own.

Latro
31-03-2006, 20:11
I dont see the huge deal about the slayer list - Please someone point out to me how many of the larger tournaments the Slayers have won over the 2 years since SoC was released...In fact someone show me where ANY of the SoC lists have won tournaments...

What makes you think that badly tested and unbalanced automatically means that the list has to be "invincible"?


Lastly more a question than a rant but where does this leave items/units in the SoC book that were usable by 'normal' armies??

Good question ... no answer though.

My hope is that they find a way to preserve the better parts of SoC and either scrap or change the parts that are somewhat less of a succes.

:cool:

Ganymede
31-03-2006, 22:02
What I fail to comprehend is the level of fear that the banning of SoC list inspires. It is definetly a likely secnario that the SoC lists will be banned, but it is an equally likely scenario that any list theme or composition in the SoC books will be duplicated (on some level) in the new armybooks. They have already done it for the slayer army.

Frankly
31-03-2006, 22:28
Hopefully no SoC armylists at GTs is only going to be Australia only.

Andrew Long, one of the Melbourne head boys in the "Big Boys Club"(GW store staff words not mine)thought that it would be easier on players for "referencing".

Since alot of players didn't know to much about SoC and/or play against SoC armylist as often as "Veteran" players have, so younger players are at a disadvantage.

His idea for disallowing SoC armylists in GT's is to make the playing field more even for younger players.

Now, what he's saying just doesn't make sense to me, e.g.:

"Referencing"; EVERYONE will bring in there armylist and armybook for their own referencing and for the opponant as well, not other that, but you have senior players and judges walking around to help out with any rule problems.

Younger players also go the GT's for the exp. to play as many different types of armylists as possible. Restristing tournament legal armylists only restricts youngers players ability to play against them.

And to be honest, 80% of players at GT's are veterans anyway, its not an environment that I see alot new comers in, not that it would be a bad thing to see more new blood at tournaments.

So there is the reason I was given to why SoC armylists are not allowed of Oz GT is year and most likely any in the future. Oh and a few arguesments against.:rolleyes:

Frankly
31-03-2006, 22:38
I would hate to lose my beloved Sylvanians (great army)




See now, I'd personally like to play against your SoC armylist, its something different and would be a challenge to play against, restricting armyists like this isn't good for amyone.

sparky
01-04-2006, 11:25
I dont see the huge deal about the slayer list - Please someone point out to me how many of the larger tournaments the Slayers have won over the 2 years since SoC was released...In fact someone show me where ANY of the SoC lists have won tournaments...

It's not about winning (though the demon legion and sylvania have certainly won multiple tournaments, and placed highly at others). It's about having a fun game. The slayers are utterly tedious to play with and against - and the army is so limited that there is only one way to play. The same goes for the eshin and seaguard lists. The demon legion has the stupid flying gunline of tzeentch and the invulnerable jugganaught of nurgle.



Hopefully no SoC armylists at GTs is only going to be Australia only.

UK also.

Frankly
01-04-2006, 15:29
UK also.

Oh really?

sparky
01-04-2006, 15:55
Oh really?

Oh really really:

LINK (http://uk.games-workshop.com/features/soc-gt/soc-gt.htm)

ashc
01-04-2006, 16:31
to be honest i thought that that what this thread was about; the fact that the SOC lists *have* been banned already by UK GT. seems Oz is coming into it too, interesting.

Personally im not too bothered as none of it effects a player like myself, but i can see people who invested large amounts of money into aforementioned armylists being pretty darn peeved to say the least.

Ash

sparky
01-04-2006, 16:35
I happened to glance the other day at the white dwarf issue with the storm of chaos FAQ - to the question 'will the storm of chaos lists remain legal after the campaign', the answer was 'yes'.

I think they meant to say 'yes, until we change our minds in a year or so.'

:evilgrin:

Fanfan
01-04-2006, 17:30
From the link Sparky posted, I think there are three things that we need to focus on:

First is that two armies that don'T even have army books or official lists are accepted at GTs.

Second: (about SoC lists)
"This decision only applies to the above mentioned events and is not intended as a statement of the 'official' or 'unofficial' nature of the Storm of Chaos rules in the wider gaming world. [...]

Brian Aderson
UK Events Manager"

Third: It's just a matter of time til they change their mind again... :mad:

And please, do not complain for cash issues, that's lowly. Whine about the fact that you went through hours of planification, assembling, converting and painting hundreds of minis that you won't be able to take at GTs... or to any game in the near future...:cries:

Gorbad Ironclaw
01-04-2006, 20:17
Well, the lists are still legal, there are just some tournaments you can't use them in. I have seen tournaments restrict armies to just a handfull of books, or tournaments where everything goes.

Now of course if you were planning on using a SoC list in those events it suck. But I honestly don't think it will change very much for anything else.

chris_valera
01-04-2006, 21:14
And please, do not complain for cash issues, that's lowly. Whine about the fact that you went through hours of planification, assembling, converting and painting hundreds of minis that you won't be able to take at GTs... or to any game in the near future...:cries:

I'm sure Paris Hilton has enough money to buy an entire SoC Daemon army, and even she'd be pissed at having her entire army made illegal in tourneys.

Welcome to the Games Workshop Hobby indeed.

--Chris
*********************

Shockwave
01-04-2006, 22:02
And please, do not complain for cash issues, that's lowly. Whine about the fact that you went through hours of planification, assembling, converting and painting hundreds of minis that you won't be able to take at GTs... or to any game in the near future...:cries:

Yeah just this week i booked off work to get my **** into gear to paint my converted Keeper and witch elf/ Daemonette unit that is my devoted. The army i fully intended to take to the GT heats later this year.

Great, now i've got to get practice in with a new army, not knowing whether or not i get to use the items in Storm of Chaos, and paint up half an army. Considering i get an average of 2 games a month, and i'm doing well if i paint a unit every two months my chance's look good don't they.

So much for starting a 40K Tau army.

But i'm not bitter. :mad:

skavenguy13
01-04-2006, 22:53
To me, those lists are exactly the same as CD and DOW: lists that many people play and they don't look like they want to keep them official, they'd rather toss it aside. Yet, many still play CD or DOW. I myself am starting a DOW army and an 'Ardboyz army. I probably just won't be able to play them at huge ournaments, but I boycott them anyway. I prefer my local games, where I can play any army if my opponent agrees, or the small local tournament where the organiser is a lot less strict.