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Hashulaman
10-05-2011, 09:35
Is Gateway truly that broken? Can it make or break a game? My last game, I was lucky to get S3 or higher and hits were average. Maybe I just rolled bad.

Rosstifer
10-05-2011, 09:37
I used to use Tzeentch all the time, moved over to Shadow now, but Gateway has potential. I wouldn't say it was broken, though it's won me a fair few games, more often than not it does next to nothing.

Xenthick
10-05-2011, 09:39
Is Gateway truly that broken? Can it make or break a game? My last game, I was lucky to get S3 or higher and hits were average. Maybe I just rolled bad.

Lucky to get S3? Yah thats some bad rolling. Basically look at it in averages. 7 S7 hits. Really not broken at all. 1 in 6 chance of anihilating a unit, but really its not that bad. I'd rather be hit with that then purple sun, dwellers or dreaded 13th.

ftayl5
10-05-2011, 09:40
It's a very very random spell.
One game it will be insignificant and a waste of time.
The next game it will suck away your biggest baddest unit, your general and your BSB.
There are much worse spells.
EDIT: By worse I mean more broken.

Leogun_91
10-05-2011, 10:13
It has a 3 in 36 chance of destroying a unit, this chance is too small to build your strategy around but big enough for your opponent to not risk letting through against his prized units (generals etc). Not a game breaker but a useful spell.

Arselskjut
10-05-2011, 10:14
Take skavens thirteenth spell for example. makes me sad when it blows away 14 daemonettes or bloodletters. =(
b-b-b-b-broken! :D:D

Havock
10-05-2011, 12:03
It keeps people honest about deathstarring units to the max.

Banville
10-05-2011, 12:26
I don't know about the relative efficiency of any of the big spells. I got a unit zapped off the board by Gate in consecutive turns. 3 in 36 is one in twelve. I think that, like any big spell, it is random but when it hits, it really hits. As someone from a rather unsavoury organisation once said in relation to a failed assassination attempt, "You have to be lucky all the time. We have to be lucky just once."

reddevil18
10-05-2011, 14:32
Well in all my games for the two years i have been playing ive only ever gotten the 11-12 result once, on a doom wheel with 1 wound left anyway.

And i get it nearly every game.

So no not broken just that scare factor that it COULD kill the unit.

Poseidal
10-05-2011, 14:47
I've got it come up against a large unit of Ogre Ironguts with a Tyrant once, which was it's most effective.

It's got the threat, so makes people throw dice at it to dispel.

I mainly use a rulebook lore for my L4 now. Maybe if I took a L2 Tz Wizard and rolled it, I might throw a few dice at it but power dice can get hard to come by sometimes to do that.

Juggernaut101
10-05-2011, 19:00
It is almost 100% pychological warfare.

Sure, you can kill a whole unit in one go but you might do no damage at all, too.
What do you get on avarage? 7 S7 hits...say 6wounds (low T victims). Factor in ward saves and MR and it goes down further.
Try that against some of the high T stuff Abomb/Hydras/Sphinx/Trolls /whatnot (these things grow on trees nowadays), factor in that most of these have regen and the "broken" spell doesn't do much.
The actual damage output is pretty lame compared to ather spells.

What it IS good for is soaking up dispel dice...followed by a Treason spell. Nothing is as hilarious as hordes spanking themselves.

sulla
10-05-2011, 19:27
It keeps people honest about deathstarring units to the max.Heh, I usually see the Tzeench lvl4 in a huge warrior deathstar supported by twin hellcannons. The warriors deathstar has the stats to shrug off most anything my armies can dish out. Guess the deathstar thing only goes one way...

Snake1311
10-05-2011, 22:31
It is almost 100% pychological warfare.

Sure, you can kill a whole unit in one go but you might do no damage at all, too.
What do you get on avarage? 7 S7 hits...say 6wounds (low T victims). Factor in ward saves and MR and it goes down further.
Try that against some of the high T stuff Abomb/Hydras/Sphinx/Trolls /whatnot (these things grow on trees nowadays), factor in that most of these have regen and the "broken" spell doesn't do much.
The actual damage output is pretty lame compared to ather spells.

What it IS good for is soaking up dispel dice...followed by a Treason spell. Nothing is as hilarious as hordes spanking themselves.

That is a horrible evaluation.

I don't see why everyone seems to be focusing on the 'crit' effect of the spell. Gatewayis a damaging spell with a relatively low casting value for its average roll (7 str 7 hits), outperforming most magic missles - in an anrmy which traditionally has no relaible shooting. It's purpose isnt to chip away at enemy deathstars and pray for a 'crit' (which some tournies tone down anyway), but to target annoying skirmishers baiting your frenzied units and otehr such annoyances - and to force 80% of characters to sit in their units lest they be vaporized.

Lord Inquisitor
10-05-2011, 22:50
As noted, it's an excellent spell all round. As a pure magic missile (ignoring the 11-12 result), it's got decent average damage potential for quite a managable casting value. Then that 11-12 result has psychological impact - often can draw out power dice not just because it's a good spell but that 1/11 risk that it might blow your unit clean off the table. And, indeed, sometimes it does. When you lose a 400-point unit to one roll, it smarts. There are few other "auto dead" spells in the game.

tmarichards
10-05-2011, 23:12
It's a very good spell, sometimes it'll end games and other times it won't do too much. But on a 15 to cast, you should cast it multiple times each game.

It can get rid of big units, draw out dice, or annihilate small units. This means there are no bad match-ups for it.

Just be sure not to build a reputation upon using it and then get disqualified from a tournament for using loaded dice.

Maoriboy007
10-05-2011, 23:15
I don't think I've seen many games game where gateway hasn't removed a unit during gameplay with the 11-12 result (not exagerrating BTW, it happens that often).
Whatever the odds of it happening in a single cast , you also need to remember that WoC can reliably and safely cast it every turn thanks to +5 to cast and the puppet, making the long odds much shorter.

reddevil18
10-05-2011, 23:19
Why does the puppet help to cast it? :S

Maoriboy007
10-05-2011, 23:23
Why does the puppet help to cast it? :S

The puppet makes it virtually risk free to 6 dice the spell. So you'll be casting it at an extremely high value , making it difficult to dispel or IF and be fairly unconcerned about the Miscast.

Rochr
11-05-2011, 07:19
People mostly use the Gateway in a bad way. Yea it is temping to throw it at his 50 horde of Hammerers with a Lord but in reality it is not very effective like that. On average you are looking at 7x STR7 hits which is not bad. It is a brilliant anti-weapon for Hydras, Doom Wheels, HPA, heavy armoured knights and other weird monsters/contraptions with a high toughness.

Morkash
11-05-2011, 07:35
Well usually you use it against 50 Hammerers, the Dwarf is scared and throws a bunch of dice to dispel it. Then you cast Treason on the Hammerers, hear 5 minutes of H-H-H-HAMMERTIME! and 25+ Hammerers lie on the ground.

Djekar
11-05-2011, 08:26
...hear 5 minutes of H-H-H-HAMMERTIME! ...

This makes me want to play dwarves.

I agree that the spell is good, but the "nuking" effect is more psychological than anything. Just as many other people have been saying, the threat of it is what makes Gateway so good. That and it's versatility.

Dux
11-05-2011, 09:27
As a pure magic missile (ignoring the 11-12 result), it's got decent average damage potential for quite a managable casting value

Just wanted to add that Gateway is no magic missile. It's better than that. It's 24" around the caster, without needing LOS and the ability to be casted while in CC.+

Gateway in general isn't that gamebreaking as other spells. It has the chance (8.333%) to remove a whole unit. but is also has the chance to do 2 str2 hits.
Take PoS for example. Against dwarfs/lizards it's extremely powerful. It removes nearly everything on a 3+, ignoring armor and wards, while gateway allows both most of the time.

As mentioned before Gateway is more like psychologic warfare. It has the possibility to be extremely dangerous, thus many will use a high number of dice to dispell it, leaving them with to few dice to dispell Treason or other nasty stuff.

popisdead
11-05-2011, 19:14
Is Gateway truly that broken? Can it make or break a game? My last game, I was lucky to get S3 or higher and hits were average. Maybe I just rolled bad.

No one uses it in town because it's not very good. slim chance to remove a unit (that Frenzied Halberd Chosen can do anyway).

Havock
11-05-2011, 22:07
Just wanted to add that Gateway is no magic missile. It's better than that. It's 24" around the caster, without needing LOS and the ability to be casted while in CC.+


No it can't.

Eta
11-05-2011, 23:00
No it can't.

At least the "needs no LoS" part is correct. As you do not need LoS to your target unit, one can conclude that you can cast Infernal Gateway even when your sorcerer is in close combat.

Rosstifer
12-05-2011, 02:42
At least the "needs no LoS" part is correct. As you do not need LoS to your target unit, one can conclude that you can cast Infernal Gateway even when your sorcerer is in close combat.

I used to do it like this, never had any issues. Don't use it anymore, but I don't see why you couldn't cast it whilst in close combat.

Rochr
12-05-2011, 07:29
No it can't.

No you do not need LOS.