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Bodysnatcher
15-05-2011, 16:31
In a big game yesterday a fair amount of time was taken up by working out how many models were in base contact (leaning over a full table and counting isn't always an option).
So I thought I'd draw up some tables and share them.

Would also be grateful if someone could check the calculations.

Note: These assume 0mm corner-to-corner contacts are valid, i.e. you can get 7 20mm bases into contact with 5 20mm bases.

GodlessM
15-05-2011, 17:00
Not that I don't appreciate your effort, but I don't see why these should be necessary; can people really not count single digit numbers by looking at a set of models?

Bodysnatcher
15-05-2011, 17:17
Not that I don't appreciate your effort, but I don't see why these should be necessary; can people really not count single digit numbers by looking at a set of models?

In large units with slack movement trays they can slip out of line quite easily - especially if the basic models don't rank up brilliantly.

castellanash
15-05-2011, 17:22
Then have rigid movement trays and build the models to fit together?

Kauzu
15-05-2011, 17:36
was that entirely necessary? The guy is trying to help people out. The tables could be useful for new players especially as they might not realize corner to corner is generally accepted as in contact.

Bodysnatcher
15-05-2011, 17:42
Then have rigid movement trays and build the models to fit together?

I said slack - meaning that the bases aren't exactly the right length. Precisely sized movement trays are a pain to get models in and out. And sometimes despite the best intentions of the modeller the ranking isn't perfect.


The tables could be useful for new players especially as they might not realize corner to corner is generally accepted as in contact.

Yep, that's the intent. Plus for tournament players having numbers that are calculated is a bonus.

WarmbloodedLizard
15-05-2011, 18:00
I appreciate the effort but I think calculating the numbers in your head is probably faster than looking it up on these tables.

theunwantedbeing
15-05-2011, 18:11
Scale diagrams to print off would have been more useful to be honest.

Kauzu
15-05-2011, 18:56
My comment wasn't directed at you godless.

Don't forget that there are a number of gridbased games, especially gridbased video games in which corner to corner contact doesn't allow an attack. It would hardly be a leap that a player new to warhammer, but familiar with any of those games (or even genre of games as it were) would overlook potential attacks from corner to corner contact.

Bodysnatcher
15-05-2011, 19:18
Scale diagrams to print off would have been more useful to be honest.

But surely a lookup table is easier to use?

xxRavenxx
15-05-2011, 20:17
Despite nay sayers claiming we can all count, I think its a very useful thing to know, as sometimes there is a tiny difference between bases and its hard to tell how many models made contact.

That said, the tables are kind of awkward to look through. Could they not be streamlined?

You only need to see how many from one unit contact another per table. Smaller neater tables, taking up a sheet of A4 would be useful.

Bodysnatcher
15-05-2011, 20:56
Despite nay sayers claiming we can all count, I think its a very useful thing to know, as sometimes there is a tiny difference between bases and its hard to tell how many models made contact.

That said, the tables are kind of awkward to look through. Could they not be streamlined?

You only need to see how many from one unit contact another per table. Smaller neater tables, taking up a sheet of A4 would be useful.

Thanks for the feedback.

The difficulty is bludgeoning excel to display something that is readable as well as accurate. Plus there is a matrix of 4 x 4 base types to display - which could make the table very confusing very quickly.

xxRavenxx
16-05-2011, 08:19
Make the tables only a row or two deep. That will help. (Numbers following won't be accurate).

20mm bases.

Unit Width 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
25mm contact 2 3 5 6 8 9 10
40mm contact 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3
50mm contact 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3


Repeat that table doing it for 25mm, 40mm and 50mm bases. 4 tables. Neat grids. One table dealing with each base size for quick reference. You dont need to do the... cross reference bit. It just clutters the tables.

paulb11
16-05-2011, 10:29
I would point out that GW bases for cav aren't actually 25m wide, so just 'looking at the models and counting' won't work for them, as over several models the difference is very noticable.

So thank you for the chart, it is useful for several players I know who struggle to work out their 20 and 25 times table for working it out.

theunwantedbeing
16-05-2011, 10:39
But surely a lookup table is easier to use?

I don't see how ease of use counts to be honest.
Counting the models on the board isn't exactly hard afterall.

Diagrams are prettier and nicer to look at.
That's all Joe average cares about.

xxRavenxx
16-05-2011, 12:05
For those who don't get why a table for base contact might be useful, try this simple counting exercise:

I am 7 wide on 25mm bases.

How many 20mm based men can fight me, assuming my opponent has reformed to be wider than me?


And if you dont actually struggle working out if its 8,9 or 10 men, I have some doozies about how many 25mm and 20mm guys can make contact with a unit when doing multiple charges :D

T10
16-05-2011, 21:49
For those who don't get why a table for base contact might be useful, try this simple counting exercise:

I am 7 wide on 25mm bases.

How many 20mm based men can fight me, assuming my opponent has reformed to be wider than me?


And if you dont actually struggle working out if its 8,9 or 10 men, I have some doozies about how many 25mm and 20mm guys can make contact with a unit when doing multiple charges :D

Why 7? It would have been a lot easier to work out with 8! :)

7 x 25 mm is 175 mm, so you'll need 9 x 20 mm to match it. Add one for optimal corner-to-corner contact.

If your unit was 8 x 25 mm, then it would be matched by 10 x 20 mm. Add two for optimal corner-to-corner contact

Bodysnatcher
16-05-2011, 22:02
Why 7? It would have been a lot easier to work out with 8! :)

7 x 25 mm is 175 mm, so you'll need 9 x 20 mm to match it. Add one for optimal corner-to-corner contact.

If your unit was 8 x 25 mm, then it would be matched by 10 x 20 mm. Add two for optimal corner-to-corner contact

It's amazing how hard simple arithmetic gets in pressurised and/or beer fuelled games :p

xxRavenxx
16-05-2011, 22:05
Why 7? It would have been a lot easier to work out with 8! :)

7 x 25 mm is 175 mm, so you'll need 9 x 20 mm to match it. Add one for optimal corner-to-corner contact.

If your unit was 8 x 25 mm, then it would be matched by 10 x 20 mm. Add two for optimal corner-to-corner contact

I picked 7 because its an annoying number :) I was going for one that shows people why a quick lookup table may be useful. Especially for those who aren't good at maths. (Not me personally, but I'm sure there are plenty of gamers out there who would take time to crunch those numbers.)

eron12
17-05-2011, 06:18
Thanks for taking the effort to make these, but they seem very awkward and convoluted. A simpler setup, as was mentioned, would be much easier to use.

Bodysnatcher
17-05-2011, 18:24
Thanks for taking the effort to make these, but they seem very awkward and convoluted. A simpler setup, as was mentioned, would be much easier to use.

Unfortunately the table given earlier as an example doesn't take account of the second unit. You need a matrix to get the detail.

xxRavenxx
17-05-2011, 20:07
Why does it need to account for the second unit?

One unit will be smaller. You look it up, vs the wider one. And you're done.

Bodysnatcher
17-05-2011, 21:11
If a unit's a certain size it gives a bonus corner to corner.

eron12
18-05-2011, 00:40
And a simple table would account for that, by listing the maximum base to base contact for each unit.

Arnizipal
18-05-2011, 11:10
I had to step in to remove some trolling and borderline flaming posts.
Please keep it civil in the future...

Arnizipal,

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