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brassangel
18-05-2011, 03:03
This is a letter I sent to Games Workshop earlier today, and I feel as though it echoes the sentiments of most of the fans of their wonderful products. I left out the nerd-rage and misinformation running rampant regarding the EU, Capitalism, greed, etc., and stuck solely to the facts and the concerns they present. Without further ado...


Dear Sir or Madam:

I am an avid gamer and hobbyist living in America. I also paint miniatures (somewhat) professionally. I love your products. Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are the gold standard of tabletop gaming. While this warrants a pricing scheme to reflect such a great brand, I fail to understand why you have made recent changes which severely hurt your international markets. Namely Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and my home, the USA.

In recent years I have read the articles and announcements, conversed with employees, and attended events citing the coming of a new multi-component material designed to end the use of metal, as well as hybrid kits for each army. Both of these maneuvers, along with some clever cost-saving initiatives, were designed to pass savings on to the consumer thus making the hobby more accessible for everyone. Certainly these changes have come to pass, but along with the changes were two sets of price increases instead of the savings we were promised.

There's no hiding what has happened here. Games Workshop won't be able to pass this off as a measure which had to be taken in order to cover increased costs of production. Even if the price comes down in the future, it will only bring the tag back in line with what we - the consumer - currently (though sometimes begrudgingly) pay.

Model for model, the prices of all of these games, and those of your competitors, are roughly the same. The quality offered by Games Workshop is unmatched, however; second to none. The main difference between WHFB and 40k, and games offered by other companies such as Malifaux, Warmachine & Hordes, Flames of War, etc., is that these games require a much smaller investment to enjoy. That isn't what I have a problem with, nor is it a problem that you choose to differ from these products by designing a game around large scale battles instead of smaller skirmishes.

My problem, and the problem of other hobbyists who echo my sentiments, is that Games Workshop has performed the following alterations which only further compound the difficulties we face in the days ahead:

1. Designed the game rules, and each army book/codex to strike a balance at games between 1500-1750 points for 40k, and between 2250-3000 points for WHFB. This sets the tone for the remainder of the following issues.

2. Designed new rules sets which favor "hordes" in both games systems. From objective-based missions, to rules benefits for larger units, it's clear that you want the battles larger, and each unit within the battles to also be larger. This requires us to purchase more of the models with cheaper points values in order to be adequately competitive.

3. Lowered the points value of units and individual models within your codex and army books. This change means that more models must be present in order to fill the points requirements of a balanced, or tournament game (see points balances above). This also requires us to purchase more models.

4. Devised hybrid kits which, while superficially convenient, also include fewer models than previous renditions of similar units. Again, this then forces us to purchase more models to fill the points requirements; not just for an army, but even one force organization slot. An example of this would be Hormagaunts. After June 1st, they will effectively cost $30 (US) for 10 models at 6 points apiece. Since no one is stupid enough to play just 10 Hormagaunts, people will have to spend $60, or even $90 just to fill 120-180 points and one Troops requirement. Great, just 1300 points to go...

5. Eliminating the ability of European retailers to offer products and services overseas. This one's a killer. As if it wasn't tough enough for Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, and Americans to enjoy the hobby at a reasonable cost, now we can only get it from homeland retailers who have to pay your ridiculous mark up costs and thus can't afford to offer us such discounts.

6. Price hikes. Like clockwork, another summer brings another unreasonable price increase across the board. At least you aren't trying to fool us by calling them "adjustments" anymore; that was rather insulting to the fan base.

When all of these factors are added together, you have effectively priced half of your market out of the game without good cause or economic necessity to justify the changes. You have lowered the points costs, set rewards for larger units and armies, all while reducing the number of models in a kit and simultaneously increasing the price of said kits. That is brutal, and in one-fell swoop, all together cruel to your loyal customers.

I have defended Games Workshop and their products for more than 15 years now. No matter what changes have been made, I've weathered the storm, offered explanations, and stood for what I believe are the best products in the industry. Now I have nothing more to say in your defense. I have to stop playing and resign only to painting miniatures for others. I will never play Warmachine/Hordes, or any of the other games, but I can now see the appeal. While they too pay $60 for a large model, they only have to buy one of them and it fills out 1/3 of their army. While a box of plastics may cost them $50, they get almost an entire faction that way. If the cost is going to increase, then the requisite number of purchases should be decreased through the rules to compensate. Games Workshop has gone in the opposite direction in fairness, sensibility, and responsibility. Now we are asking for accountability.

While I'm sure this email won't be read at length, and I will likely receive a prepared and automated reply, I owe it to you, the hobbyists, and myself to fully express my concerns in this matter. I sincerely hope that losing one customer does matter to you, because this situation truly saddens me and could spell the end for me and my days as a table top gamer.

Sincerely and Respectfully,
Jason Colbeck

The Orange
18-05-2011, 03:26
Well written, I'm sure someone at GW will take notice, just not the right people.

brassangel
18-05-2011, 04:07
Well written, I'm sure someone at GW will take notice, just not the right people.

You are probably right. But I don't consider the effort wasted as it was a joy to expel the thoughts. :D

Thank you all for the support, by the way. I'm getting similar replies across the web.

Like other "gold-plated" companies in their industries (Apple, Nordstrom's, etc.), GW has good customer service and offers a sexy product. Games Workshop is such a niche market, however, that I just can't grasp these practices. They aren't even playing ball with Capitalism which uses innovation to spark growth, growth to instill competition, competition to drive the price and future innovation, all equating to more jobs and a cycle that repeats to the benefit of everyone.

They are just trying to bully their way to profits.

Thanks again, and I will post a reply if and when it's received.

Read more: http://www.thetyranidhive.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=OtherGamesWorkshopstuff&thread=33627&page=1#ixzz1MfbQTCfo

Konstantine
18-05-2011, 05:21
Thank you for this. This is what a lot of players think. Alone in Canada, even though our dollar is really high, we have a 20% increase. Just not viable anymore to continue to play with Games-Workshop products after 10 years in the hobby. Like you, I have tried to justify every price increase, but this time, its just gone overboard. Hopefully this letter can change those things up, but to me, this is something that won't happen.

Once again Thank you for this letter!

-Calvin

Hawkmoon
18-05-2011, 05:27
I completely agree with your letter and applaud you for your well spoken and moderately toned expression of what many of us are continually frustrated by.

I personally, would have sent them a letter that simply read ******* **U! and was written in human feces. :eek:

Unfortunetly, in the end I think either letter would have about as much chance to change the course of recent trends over at GW, which is to say very little, but that doesn't mean you were wrong in sending it. Maybe if more hobbyists would write such letters and back it up by keeping their purse strings closed GW would take notice. But that's pretty unlikely.

Also, while I agree with you about the manipulation of the rules for the purpose of sales, who's to say you can't use GW miniatures for an alternate or home brew system? Most of us old timers have been with the game long enough to have a basic idea of what would make a good game system.

Get together with your buddies and do it yourself! 'cause GW ain't gonna do it for you!

mattjgilbert
18-05-2011, 12:36
You know, last night I was thinking about writing a letter to GW saying almost the same thing. Well done on your efforts in doing it. I myself have been buying and playing with GW products for over 20 years but I think I'm (sadly) at a stage where enough is enough.

The recent actions are such a shot in the arm for other rival companies and I'm not sure GW realise what they are doing. They can't do or they wouldn't have done it.

For myself, I'm now fully converted to Mantic games for both models and rules. Others will follow here and elsewhere but whereas in the past it was a natural migration to other wargaming (often still with GW in the picture) it now seems the whole customer base is being actively pushed away for good.

Sad times.

blongbling
18-05-2011, 13:34
I didn't enjoy this letter, it starts off with an incorrect assumption and then complains about unfair things are.

Voss
18-05-2011, 13:51
Yes, I found the 'designed to pass the savings on to the consumer' fairly dishonest, as was following the announcements and articles for years.

This just isn't true. For all that this is atrocious behavior by Games Workshop, the above do not fall under the things that GW actually did or promised.

While you do have some valid points about raising costs, decreasing model point costs and increasing game size simultaneously, there is too much content in your letter that is an exaggeration at best, and actually untrue at worst, that even if someone were to read it, it would be dismissed as an over-reaction. I'd suggest revising it.

MarcoSkoll
18-05-2011, 14:04
While parts of this are well written, I agree that it's making a few unproven logical leaps.

The other thing to say is that e-mails usually get lost by GW. If you want your letter to get noticed, send it by snail mail.

It's slow, costs money, and all that, but it feels like more effort has been invested, it can be handed around the room for others to read and if it's forwarded to someone higher then it's also less likely to be ignored.

They also get a lot fewer letters than emails, so the ones they do get immediately stand out more.

wizbix
18-05-2011, 14:38
Tke out the bit where you say you are sure the email wont be read at length. If I worked at GW that would certainly get my back up enough to not want to respond.

Wraith Phoenix
18-05-2011, 15:15
I have read your letter and while I found it well written and passionate, as others have pointed out there were a number of unsubstantiated leaps of logic in there.

But the thing I think is your biggest error is your final recommendation. What you have advocated as a solution for the high start up costs of the hobby was to take the game back to the size it was in the late 80s- early 90s (as in the sizes of the forces). I'm sorry but for so many reason this is never going to happen and because of this your letter will not have any impact.

As a suggestion, rather than saying GW should redesign their games to make battles smaller, suggest they look into ways of allowing players to play smaller battles, like with the old kill team and combat patrol games, allowing players to start playing with smaller force (and financial outlay) and allowing armies to grow over time as they did in the old days.

Finally, a final point. the reason that the rules changed to larger battles was because the armies of large portions of the player base had grown beyond the capacities of the rules, and battles of the size we know now were taking several hours (and as this process continued it later brought us apocalypse in 40K). Also from a design perspective, it is far easier to design big cool new stuff than new basic stuff.

Emperor's Grace
18-05-2011, 15:52
I'm sorry to pick but I think the moderate tone ended when the words stupid, ridiculous, unreasonable, etc... were used.

What is needed is many letters that express disappointment with their choices, state the consequences for the individual writing the letter (not speaking for the masses or other countries), and informs them politely that your wallet will vote elsewhere.

As mentioned by many other posters, a business stops reading/caring about your letter as soon as the insults kick in.

MalusCalibur
18-05-2011, 15:55
Regardless of the sentiment or content of the letter, GW will take no notice. It would take thousands of those sorts of letters, all arriving at once, to make any kind of impact and even then said impact would probably be of lots of paper hitting the bin/shredder.

Sadly.

Emperor's Grace
18-05-2011, 15:59
Agreed on the thousands of letters but even then I think more telling would be a hit to the purse.

Myrmidon616
18-05-2011, 16:00
You could always send it to Jervis Johnson via Standard Bearer. He does say he reads all the letters he gets sent.

theunwantedbeing
18-05-2011, 16:04
Regardless of the sentiment or content of the letter, GW will take no notice. It would take thousands of those sorts of letters, all arriving at once, to make any kind of impact and even then said impact would probably be of lots of paper hitting the bin/shredder.

Sadly.

Maybe GW can use all that paper to save money on heating bills for their stores. So they can cut prices in stores to appease their fans?

alexh
18-05-2011, 16:15
I agree with most of the sentiment in your letter but I also agree with what most of the posters have said about actual content. I'm thinking about asking the manager of my local GW if I can paint my kings of war army in there with vallejo paints and winsor & newton brushes!!

linikratyo
18-05-2011, 16:19
Well, I completely agree, first I also wanted to defend GW for their high prices and wanted to keep on supporting them, but after this ridiculous price hike I'm just going to stop supporting them. Not necessarily by not buying, but by buying only in the cheapest way possible...

Fluxeor
18-05-2011, 16:30
Maybe GW can use all that paper to save money on heating bills for their stores. So they can cut prices in stores to appease their fans?

Unfortunately what would actually happen in this instance is that GW would install incinerators (or more likely, old barrels cut in half and balanced on a brick or 2) in every store and then use that as an excuse to raise prices again.

beregarii
18-05-2011, 16:59
Link to the website where questions can be asked of the CEO of the board for Games Workshop:

http://http://investor.games-workshop.com/information_for_investors/talk_to_tom/default.aspx

More direct manner I believe.

SunTzu
18-05-2011, 17:13
The problem is, if you want to play GW games, you have to decide if it's worth the money or not.

If you think it's worth the money, great. But then why should GW drop prices?

If you think it's not worth the money, that sucks. But if other people think it is, GW will still make money, and again, why should they drop prices?

Yes, GW product is cool. But you have to decide if GW product is worth the money TO YOU. Me, personally, I no longer buy GW models (I have enough old ones to play the games, and won't buy any new models). But saying "please don't be so expensive" is a waste of time... GW aren't in business out of the kindness of their hearts, they're doing it to make money. If they continue to make money, they will keep raising prices; only if enough people stop buying (that's actually stop buying, not just threaten to) and they lose money will they reconsider.

It's like saying "well, I only like Ferraris, so I'm going to insist on buying an F50, and write to them and demand they cut their prices". Obviously such a demand would have no effect, and why should it? So either save up for the Ferrari F50 or drive a Ford Mondeo like the rest of us... when it comes to luxury goods (of which toy soldiers are definitely one example), a "fair price" is whatever the seller wishes to charge, which they will base on whatever buyers are willing to spend.

ihavetoomuchminis
18-05-2011, 17:39
I think this letter is too "conspiranoid". While i agree that GW products are too expensive, and subtle unjustified price raises irks me as much as others, i think this letter goes too further with the "i don't like the new editions, i want the things to be as it was in the past", dressing all the letter with a "your pricing policies suck".

Some of the players like larger battles, some of us like to play with droves of models. I think you are taking the wrong way. For me, the problem with prices is more a thing of "i don't feel that what i'm getting deserves what i'm paying", and that should be the aproach, and you should support your letter with some facts, data, or whatever, showing as they have a poor revenue year after year, telling them that if they rise the prices a 20%, and only turn over a 5% more, they are losing customers, explaining how a social game without advertising depends on the number of costumers to grow. Some self-explaining plots would be useful too. And if these thing i've told are not true, and GW is performing well, better every year, and if it seems that in long term, GW would keep growing...then, your letter is more a whine about "i can NOT buy all the models i want", than a "i'm worried, because i like this game, and i don't want GW to disappear" thing.

Woundwort
18-05-2011, 18:23
I have been playing fantasy and various other GW games since the late 80s but now I find myself on the outside looking in. The price hikes, like many of you, have left me feeling angry and ignored. Thanks to Mantic and others, I still play the game but I will not give GW a penny besides the occasional book. In Canada (we I live) GW hosts virtually no tournaments so using proxies isn't an issue.

I think the best way we can send them the message is with our wallets which I believe a lot of us are. I applaud your letter and hope against hope that a thousand more find their way to Mr Kirby because I doubt the increase in margin will be offset by the continual drop in sales for my region.

Looking back to the golden age of hulk, man'o'war, blood bowl, epic, gothic, quest, and others, I can't help but shed a tear at what has happened.

brassangel
18-05-2011, 18:27
1. I am sending a hand-written letter via snail mail, and it will be revised.

2. It's easy to point out errors when you aren't the ones writing the letter. I don't say that to be rude, but since I am taking this task head on instead of just standing by the wayside complaining, I think this was a decent rough draft.

3. Some portions of the letter are emotional, exaggerated, or even a leap of logic. But if it weren't, it wouldn't sound genuine. The point was to submit a letter that passes as human, and not a compilation of drop down menu responses. All the while it contains virtually no manner of cursing or inflammatory remarks directed ar the company proper. Furthermore, a letter like this demands honesty, because that hasn't been what we've received from them. This letter was a first reaction. Now that I've slept on it, the submission will be further leveled.

4. This would spell the end of my days as a table top gamer. I have played other games and find them far less interesting, and the models ALWAYS pale in comparison. I won't switch games just to satisfy the motor need to handle minis. I will just flat-out quit, or only buy a occasional model for the sole purpose of painting and selling. Buying models for use with other games still fills their pockets.

Thanks again for your input and support. This is meant to be an exercise in the perceptions of a hurt individual, as well as a frustrated community. Not all will agree with me, but then few did when I defended them either.

ihavetoomuchminis
18-05-2011, 18:29
It's simple. If its affordable for you, buy. If it's not, don't make any effort to buy. Just don't buy. Maybe one day GW will realize that the people that can afford their products, is not enough.

Pumpavius
18-05-2011, 18:56
You totally represent what I feel, so thank you so much for puting it in such a good way.

I just can't understand the "minds" behind GW policies

Erik_Morkai
18-05-2011, 21:11
I am finishing up my first army and already planned for two-three more but now...screw it. I am, finishing this one and that will be it. Most of what is missing is FW stuff.

I used to play Heavy Gear RPG back in the days, their tabletop wargaming version Heavy Gear Blitz is starting to look more and more attractive (http://www.dp9.com)

The setting is original and awesome...so tempting.

Dyrnwyn
19-05-2011, 00:28
I've been intending a to write a letter to GW for some time. This has inspired me to get going on it. This is my own offering, though I fear it's not as friendly in tone:


To whom it may concern,

I am writing because it is my sad duty to inform you that I can no longer continue to be your purchase your products.

I became a customer of yours in the winter of 2003. I started playing Warhammer 40k, and shortly thereafter, I also began playing Inquisitor, Mordheim, Necromunda and Warhammer Fantasy. Between your different systems, I have purchased and built 3 40k armies, two Mordheim bands, a Necromunda gang, and a Warhammer Fantasy army. I found your Specialist Games delightful and fun to play. I truly enjoy your miniatures. They are fantastically sculpted with unique aesthetics and are high quality offerings. None of this however, excuses your recent behaviors.

You have committed error after error, and I am pained to see continued decisions that alienate your customer base. While the Specialist Games may not have gained you a huge revenue stream, they were excellent gateways to your larger games, and it perplexed me when support for those games was axed. While the rules are still available, the vast wealth of extra information and articles that they used to have is gone. I excused that as those games simply not making you enough money. When you failed to update some 3rd edition 40k codexes, I told myself that they must be on the horizon, that they were in production. When 5th edition surfaced with an accompanying brand new Marine codex, while Necrons, Dark Eldar, and the Inquisition languished with 3rd ed codexes, I stopped making excuses.

When, upon reading both the 5th edition 40k rules, and the 8th edition fantasy rules and realizing how heavily you had weighted the game in favor of buying large numbers of basic troop models, and you hiked the prices as well, I was unhappy. Upon looking at the history of your latest releases over the last two years, I saw that you had ceased to produce rules in which older models we updated and made more attractive, and new models were useful and helpful. Instead you set out to invalidate older 'good' models, and make newer models 'must have's' in order to compete. Rules were less and less balanced. Marines and other Imperial codexes contained more and more game-winning models, and Xenos and Traitor codexes are minimized to specific army builds to remain competitive.

You have some excellent material for background in your two main product lines. I got into the game as a result of the background originally written for the Tau Empire. I have found that recent codexes make a mockery of the previously established background, in an attempt to be increasingly 'awesome' and friendlier to younger audiences. Mat Ward is your most heinous offender in this regard. From his work on the 7th edition Fantasy Daemons army book to his latest travesty in the new Grey Knights codex, I have disliked every one of his works. The man is to your game systems what Michael Bay is to movies: obsessed with spectacle and making things 'awesome' and possessed of no restraint.

I have heard the Games Workshop credo that Citadel miniatures are everything, and the game is a distant and unimportant second. With all due respect, this is bunk. The vast majority of your customers buy your miniatures in order to play your game. Without the game, there is little reason to purchase your miniatures. You are not Reaper Minis, you do not produce a large assortment of different generic fantasy models for use with many different systems – you produce specific themed product lines that all stem from your games. Said games have continued to deteriorate in terms of quality. There are outright holes in the current rules which are not addressed.

Privateer Press, Corvus Belli, Wyrd and companies are making large gains in this market despite similar pricing because the value of their miniatures within their systems is much greater. If I spend $42 on a box of Ork bikers, I have a fraction of a single unit which is a tiny part of my army. That box contributes 5% of the points of a 1500 point army – the standard size of game. In Fantasy, it is just as bad, especially as 8th edition has pushed game sizes to even greater heights. A $35 box of Dryads is 7% of a 2000 point list, and most games under 8th edition seem to be played at 2200 to 3000 points. At 3000, that box is less than 5% of the army. This problem is compounded by your more recent kits, which halve the number of models sold per box.

While this may seem fantastic to you as you consider how much product you can sell, consider this: A $50 box can make 20% to 40% of the standard size Warmachine or Hordes army. When presented with a game where one is looking at spending something like $800 to make a complete army, and another game in which a complete army can be bought for $150, the choice is easy to make in terms of value received for your dollar. The choice is made even easier when it is also revealed that the cheaper game has a clearer rules system with few problems, and is updated regularly. And that choice leads people away from your product.

With these latest moves – specifically the simultaneous price hike and embargo on non-European sales, you have officially lost me as a customer. I cannot justify the astronomical prices that you charge for tiny fractions of a functional army, which can languish for over ten years without an update. You don't produce a premium product that justifies these prices. You primary advantage for years has been the sheer ubiquity of your rules. Everyone played your games – so people would buy into the system because you would have the widest pool of opponents. Your customers can no longer afford to pay for an inferior product just because lots of people have bought it in the past.

I thank you for years of fun games under your older rules, but between your current rules, company direction, and the disregard for which you hold us as customers, I can no longer support you. My money will be going to Privateer Press and Corvus Belli. I continue to watch what you do, and hope to return to a time when variant rules abounded in White Dwarf and online, when the games were written with intent to be balanced games instead of cash grabs, and the game was something I had fun playing rather than saw as a chore to play.

Sincerely,
<name removed>

Lars Porsenna
19-05-2011, 01:13
I am finishing up my first army and already planned for two-three more but now...screw it. I am, finishing this one and that will be it. Most of what is missing is FW stuff.

I used to play Heavy Gear RPG back in the days, their tabletop wargaming version Heavy Gear Blitz is starting to look more and more attractive (http://www.dp9.com)

The setting is original and awesome...so tempting.

I played Heavy Gear back in the day too. But...twice bitten thrice shy...

Damon.

MalusCalibur
19-05-2011, 02:14
I've been intending a to write a letter to GW for some time. This has inspired me to get going on it. This is my own offering, though I fear it's not as friendly in tone:


I have to say I agree with every sentiment you expressed there - couldn't really have phrased it better myself.

I'd be tempted to write a similar one if I didn't think it would be a waste of trees, disappointingly enough.

Dyrnwyn
19-05-2011, 03:16
I have to say I agree with every sentiment you expressed there - couldn't really have phrased it better myself.

I'd be tempted to write a similar one if I didn't think it would be a waste of trees, disappointingly enough.

Send it anyway. Letter writing has proved effective in the past - the mass outcry over the old Tyranid FAQ caused them to change it. If you don't let them know how upset you are with their current direction, you have no right to complain when things continue as they are.

MalusCalibur
19-05-2011, 04:00
Send it anyway. Letter writing has proved effective in the past - the mass outcry over the old Tyranid FAQ caused them to change it. If you don't let them know how upset you are with their current direction, you have no right to complain when things continue as they are.

Unfortunately I disagree. Perhaps I'm just a cynic (certainly true), but I see little point. Over something this major, GW are not going to shift even if they get a thousand letters, because the people who will write them are no longer important customers to them.
Besides which, I 'officially' stopped buying their products about a year ago. I used to really like the WHFB/40k settings but have seen, in recent times, the quality of the rules and background for both deteriorate rapidly such that neither holds much interest, at least in their current forms. Ultimately, I no longer care what GW do from a customer standpoint, I only now follow news about them to see just how badly they can mess up before it all blows up in their face and other companies can step in - though a part of me wants to see them sort out the mess they have become, and return WH/40k to some semblance of glory, I know it won't happen.

So in short, a letter from me is probably even more pointless than anyone elses!

Blitz001
19-05-2011, 05:43
honestly i really hope they read your mail man a lot of the gamers in my area are feeling the same thing. good luck man and more power to ya.

Hawkmoon
19-05-2011, 14:12
2. It's easy to point out errors when you aren't the ones writing the letter. I don't say that to be rude, but since I am taking this task head on instead of just standing by the wayside complaining, I think this was a decent rough draft.


Very, very true! But this is the internet after all and that's what people do here...unfortunately.

I'll say it again, both you and Dyrnwyn should be applauded for doing what the rest of us have been too lazy to do ourselves. Thank you!

If the rest of us could get off our duffs and put pen to paper then perhaps we might raise some eyebrows. That and send them a bunch of pictures of our 40K rulebooks in the bin and us buying stuff from Privateer Press, Battlefront etc...:D

Lord Damocles
19-05-2011, 14:19
Matt Ward

Pro tip: Mat Ward


Single 't'.

ghost21
20-05-2011, 18:01
there is always the option in clubing together and posting a letter in a newspaper to gw this way it has national covarge in stead of ending up in sombodys bin

Deadpool101
20-05-2011, 19:16
Good effort but unless everyone who is angry sends letters it is garn of sand on a beach.

UberBeast
20-05-2011, 22:25
Chances are, whoever reads this letter will agree with it 100% and they still won't have any authority to change what it going on.

I get the feeling that GW developes its business plan out of house and relies on advice from closed sources. They have been succeeding in spite of this for years now, but in the end it will be the loss in revenue that speaks louder than any number of ignored letters.

Deadpool101
21-05-2011, 02:02
Agreed. If we really want to change things we have to do a snail mail campain. like they did for Star Trek back in the day. Think about it one our two letters very of there is nothing but if everyone writes in we could do something. ;)

I don't know if everyone wrote the the head of GW email has the same effect but we could try.

rodmillard
22-05-2011, 04:02
there is always the option in clubing together and posting a letter in a newspaper to gw this way it has national covarge in stead of ending up in sombodys bin

That's actually not a bad idea - especially if we sent an open letter to all the UK papers in the week before the shareholders' meeting...

polomarko888
22-05-2011, 12:27
Thank you Brassangel, I had in mind to send a similar letter myself, i feel you have taken a very genuine and passionte view of a subject in a very moral and mature way, well done.

Have you had a reply?

ghost21
22-05-2011, 12:44
That's actually not a bad idea - especially if we sent an open letter to all the UK papers in the week before the shareholders' meeting...

if people are willing to do it im quite happy to see the cost of such a thing

Pushkin
22-05-2011, 13:23
I read your letter and your main complaints seems to be that of cost, namely that models cost more and that you need more models to make an "average" sized army. I've been invovled in the hobby for a while and i agree this is certainly the case, however, i would argue its not 'corporate greed' thats driving this, but rather tough economic circumstances worldwide.

Whilst i'm not in any way privy to GW's management reports, i think the key factor here is inflation. In the UK inflation has just reached 4.5% p.a. by measurement of the Retail Price Index. Whilst this is more a guide for consumers, it gives an overall picture of inflation in the UK. As GW's HQ and majority of their business are in the UK this is going to have a large effect on how models are priced world wide.

Another major factor is inflation worldwide, specifically oil prices and energy costs. As a manufacturing company this will have a huge impact on the overheads of the business irregardless of where they are based. The oil price will also have a massive effect on the cost of plastic and metals, which further eats into profit margins. GW used to hold hedging instruments against the price of metals because they were so volitile but as they've moved away from using metals, they've done away with these (as can be seen on their last Balance Sheet)

Finally, i note you are purchasing from the United States. The US Federal Reserve has embarked on a series of Quantitative Easing, this has effectively lowered the value of the dollar which, whilst making investment in the US cheaper, it has the effect of eating away at the profits an international business to make. The US's failure to control its deficit and debt issues has also led to the dollar taking another hit.

I know these seem like wishy-washy financial explanations but they are genuine reasons. GW UK had to post profit warnings earlier this year because retail sales in the UK took a hit (partly because of UK weather conditions) but also because of declining high street sales generally and the state of the economy.

To put it another way, every business both this side of the Atlantic and your side, will be trying to cut costs and increase revenue in very tough circumstances. I know this doesn't help and i'm not trying to defend GW, just trying to explain some of the circumstance which have led to GW making these decisions. But the real problem here is the broader economy and inflation eating away at the value of money. Tonight i'm going to the cinema, the ticket is going to cost me 9.90 (roughly $16 USD) where as 3 years ago i could get a ticket for 6!

Personally i'm not so worried about the cost of GW models, i spent the same amount each month on models, if they put the prices up i just buy less. It's food and fuel inflation that worries me but i think thats an argument for different forum!

Coasty
22-05-2011, 16:43
I read your letter and your main complaints seems to be that of cost, namely that models cost more and that you need more models to make an "average" sized army. I've been invovled in the hobby for a while and i agree this is certainly the case, however, i would argue its not 'corporate greed' thats driving this, but rather tough economic circumstances worldwide.


What was their excuse before the recession?

Pushkin
22-05-2011, 19:28
Well actually the key issues: rising oil prices and inflation were happening way before the recession. In the UK we had fuel srikes in 2000 about the rising price of petrol, and smaller resurgent strikes in 2005 and 2007. An inflation has been above the target rate of 2% for quite a while.

The only difference was before the recession the general economy was healthy so retail sales were high and it didn't effect their business. No-one cares if prices go up say 3% each year if you get a pay rise of 5%.

If you accept veteran gamers are NOT your target audience, but rather boys aged say 10-16? (this is a guess, i'm no good at guessing ages!!) then the price rises between 2000 and 2008 are of little consequence because the target audiences (parents') average wages were increasing at a quicker rate than inflation. I'm saying the issue GW have now are the same market conditions everyone is facing, that is put up prices or lose money.

Also on a seperate slightly more specific note, in the UK most of the "growth" was achieved in the services sector and building sector between 2000-2008. Whilst GW would have made lots of money off the back of higher disposable incomes, the manufacturing industry's conditions were never really what you would class as ideal.

Like i said i'm not trying to deny there have been prices rises, there obviously have, its just that no matter how much people complain to GW they're just reacting to market circumstances. I accept that if you're on a low and/or fixed income then this is of no comfort to you.