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SWMLongtail
19-05-2011, 18:30
Everytime i see any army lists involving slaves, they come as basic as possible, im just wondering if anyone has tried taking slaves equipped with shields or spears (or both) and was it worth the extra half a point (or just one point)? is it worth it for an extra rank of attacks, a 6+ armour save (plus 6+ parry save in combat) or 6+ armour save and extra attack?

Much obliged
Supreme Warlord Master Longtail

castellanash
19-05-2011, 18:32
The whole point of slaves is to be as cheap as possible and tie things up for a little bit, then do the damage when they flee... there is no point in making them more points than they already are...

SWMLongtail
19-05-2011, 18:43
well the most useful thing ive ever had slaves do for me was hold up a unit of 20 Marauders in combat for 3 turns, they somehow managed not to flee and whittled them down slowly, and that time id given them shields just to make up a few extra points cause my list was short, im just wondering if anyone else has found it useful, or was that just a one off event? (just as a note, i only ended up losing that game cause my bell blew up killing over half my army)

magicmonkey
19-05-2011, 20:21
i think shields might help. the 6+/6++ could make them tie up longer.

russellmoo
19-05-2011, 20:23
I either take shields or give mine spears- this is mainly due to WYSIWYG- optimal is probably naked slaves- however, here are the considerations-

Lets put them up against a nightmare unit as really you want them to be able to tie up anything so - a horde of 40 white lions- and a horde of 40 longbeard rangers- both units that you would want to tie up until you can deal with them-

50 naked slaves v. WL= 2 rounds of combat v. LB's = 3 rounds of combat

50 slaves with shields= possibly 3 rounds of combat v. LB's = 3 maybe 4 rounds of combat

So while the naked is more points efficient it really depends on what type of lists you are seeing- in a truly competitive environment shields while increasing the cost of the unit by 25% you really have to weigh that cost against how well your slaves are holding up-

What you're looking at is- finding that combo and number of slaves which means they explode at the right moment- I like shields as it seems to me that I need a full turn to position my other units and so like my slaves to last 4+ rounds of combat (I don't just expect my slaves to explode) I actually use them to lock an enemy unit in and then flank it with units that will kill the enemy, I don't shoot into my slaves that much.

However, if your plan is to shoot into your slaves, or speed bump- naked is the way to go-

Spears are fun but probably better used in a horde of clanrats then placed on slaves-

Surgency
19-05-2011, 21:07
when looking whether or not its worth it, you also have to look at what those points that you'll save on shields will buy you in regards to more slaves. So in Russells example, 50 slaves with shields comes out to 125 points. For that extra 25 points you can also buy another 2 ranks of slaves (assuming you're running them 5 wide, as you should be doing), which may keep them where you want them longer...

Haravikk
19-05-2011, 21:33
I like shields; the save and Parry help them last even longer and be even more of an annoyance as a result. I mean, I suppose if I had the models I might be less inclined to take them, but with a little math:

Taking shields make the unit ~30% more survivable against Strength 3, for 25% extra cost. Against Strength 4 they're only ~17% more survivable, so on balance if you see Strength 3 and Strength 4 roughly the same amount, then there's no real difference in taking shields versus extra models.

However, if you mostly use your slaves to hold up enemy units with Strength 3 then shields are the better choice by a small margin. And this is what I tend to do, as my favourite target are high volume attack units which usually have Strength 3, or only have higher Strength on the charge or otherwise the first round, so usually works out for the better. Against enemies with high average strength, you're better off just having the extra models, as it can mean you have an extra rank or two for the cornered rats rule and to soak up the higher damage. In general though I put more value in the unit holding up the enemy for longer, than I do in them causing more damage when they eventually break.

Kevlar
20-05-2011, 00:09
You can only add more slaves if you have the models. Shields allow you to get the same effectiveness out of less models. 200 slaves with shields in four units is easier for me to field and maneuver with than 250 slaves would be.

Razaan
20-05-2011, 01:55
I always run mine with shields. My skaven slaves are parry masters.

While the points could be used to get more models, I find that sometimes my slaves can really turn it around and win combat if you don't lose too many. Give them Death Frenzy and Blessed With Filth. Provided you make a few armor/parry saves, you might find that slaves can actually win combat.

SWMLongtail
20-05-2011, 08:55
I guess I'll try out shields more often then, many thanks
Supreme Warlord Master Longtail

Kevlar
21-05-2011, 00:26
I always run mine with shields. My skaven slaves are parry masters.

While the points could be used to get more models, I find that sometimes my slaves can really turn it around and win combat if you don't lose too many. Give them Death Frenzy and Blessed With Filth. Provided you make a few armor/parry saves, you might find that slaves can actually win combat.

Yes, the greatest benefit of shields. Helps to rubber lance people. Having more bodies to die is never really as good as taking less wounds in the first place.

Tarian
21-05-2011, 01:16
I never take shields, 'cause it's hard to parry a flame thrower.

Toe Cutter
22-05-2011, 22:26
Asbestos flavour shields? Cos realistically the slaves are never going to live long enough to get asbestosis now are they?

w3rm
22-05-2011, 22:31
Shields. Always Shields.

semper_fi
22-05-2011, 22:36
Ok dot have the slightest clue on what equipment my slaves will have i another question
lets say ill give them shield and want to field 40/50 what is the best width to deploy them?

Tarian
22-05-2011, 23:13
5 Wide, X deep. They suck in combat, minimize attacks against, assuming they're there for a speed bump.

russellmoo
23-05-2011, 00:33
5 wide, unless you are running 100+ then against T3 it might be worth it to go horde, but otherwise 5 wide-