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rob_appo
19-05-2011, 22:25
I have been looking into vampire counts and i really like the look of skeletons, However i notice that most people favour ghouls, I however thimk that skeletons look really cool so I was wondering what is the best way to go about creating a skeleton based vc list.

Rea;ised this should probs be in the tactics thread sorry.

castellanash
19-05-2011, 22:29
Skeleton based one? Take a lot of skelebob's, a good portion of Grave Guard with blood knights perhaps to give some real hitting power, then just get a load of Vampires with raise dead and the ability to go passed original unit size and laugh as your skeleton units gets huge... That's the way I'd go anyway.

DW about posting in the wrong thread, sure a mod will spot it soon enough :P

jme
19-05-2011, 22:31
I would go for units of around 15 and then raise the rest with a vampire with the power that allows you to raise skeleton pass the starting size.

I would also go wight heavy as they look like skeletons.

Aluinn
19-05-2011, 22:43
I use Skeletons almost exclusively (for the models, as well) and I find that if you take minimum Core it doesn't much detract from the power of the army; a lot of its hitting power is in the Special and Rare slots either way. Not having a Ghoul horde of 40 or so is a big drawback, but there are some tricks to mitigate it:

-Take your Skeletons with hand weapons/shields, in a 5-wide formation (for units of 30 or so, of which 2 will fill out your Core in 2,000 points). This formation isn't really about killing stuff anyway, but rather having more ranks than your opponent and minimizing casualties, so the advantages Ghouls would bring are not so much missed, and the advantages of Skeletons (they do have some, e.g. full command, better armor, and Parry saves) are maximized.

-Put killy characters such as Vampires tricked out for combat and Wight Kings in these units. Their kills along with the reduced casualties afforded by the formation of the Skellies, plus the extra ranks potentially denying Steadfast, can often break an opposing unit.

-Be sure that your Special and Rare slots are full of stuff that is offensively powerful, like Grave Guard with great weapons, Varghulfs, Cairn Wraiths, and Blood Knights. This compliments the Skeleton units well, as the Skellies can hold things in combat while these units position for charges.

Ghouls are still objectively better, but then that is also in theoryhammer land. If you want a bus, you don't lose much by taking Skellies, and may actually gain something in the ability to take (magic) standards, musicians, and more ranks. (You could take a Ghoul bus, but it wouldn't be playing to their strengths.)

rob_appo
20-05-2011, 06:47
Thanks for the response, i like the idea of skeleton trains to hold things up and the grave gaurd for the choppy choppy. Varghulfs and blood knights also sound fun, are corpse carts useful also because that model is really cool aswell.

Aluinn
20-05-2011, 07:37
I always take a Corpse Cart, but I have to admit it's primarily because I also love the model :). Still, they're not bad at all; -1 to enemy casts is a pretty strong ability (consider how much they may pay for an item that grants +1 to cast, for example--usually in the realm of 40-50 points), and the Cart's Miasma is nice to have around. It's weaker than Vanhel's as a buff, but then again you can one-dice it with no additional negative consequence for failing and with no more difficulty than casting the easiest spell on one dice with any wizard.

In combat it leaves a bit to be desired, but of course killing things is not its job. You can however throw it on a flank and hope for it to kill a couple of models; it does after all get a Thunderstomp now (at a whopping S2, but still :)). I find this and the distinct possibility that it will be killed early on by war machines are its biggest drawbacks, although at least it has Regen to potentially save it from canonballs and the like.

BigbyWolf
20-05-2011, 13:56
I'm a fan of skeletons, but as my standard VC list is already handicapped enough due to a complete lack of magic I use Ghouls as my core, they are the most competitive choice.

What I am planning to do is start a different style of army focusing on bones. It'll be a sort of "Barrow Kings" army, with mix of Wight Kings and Necromancers as characters and units of Skeletons, Grave Guard, Black Knights and Wraiths.

rob_appo
20-05-2011, 17:44
Whats the sort of size to aim for for a grave gaurd unit?

Aluinn
20-05-2011, 18:16
Whats the sort of size to aim for for a grave gaurd unit?

Depending on the size of the game, anything from 15 to 40, but at 2,000 points I think a Horde of 30 is about right, and at 2,500 you may want to up that to 40. This is assuming you're willing to make the unit a significant emphasis of the list, of course; a unit of 21 in 7x3 formation is always useful to have around, should you find that you don't have enough points for more.

Whatever the size, you'll probably want to form it up to maximize attacks, within reason; the number of ranks in the unit doesn't really matter, as it's of course Unbreakable and is not going to need static combat res in order to win against virtually anything, provided you went with great weapons (which, by the way, is by far the most competitive way to run them).

As the unit becomes larger, it becomes more worthwhile to invest in "force multipliers". The first and most important to go for is Banner of the Barrows, which becomes worth taking at about 21 models. After that, you can add a Wight King BSB (who will also benefit from the aforementioned Banner), and then if you want to invest still more in the unit, you can give that BSB the Drakenhof Banner. At that point it's basically a deathstar and will be the cornerstone of your list, though. Personally, the BSB with regen banner is a bit too expensive for my taste; I'd rather spread some killing power throughout the rest of the list than keep dumping points into the same unit, once it reaches like 450 points. However, it's not necessarily a bad idea. It will depend on what else you want to include in the army, and your playstyle.

So, IMO, there is no certain number of GG that you need to have. They are very, very good, but don't feel like you'll never win a game if you don't load up on them. Of course, if you're playing in a competitive environment, then I wouldn't recommend going without them, but even there, there's room for anything from 30 with Banner of the Barrows and nothing more, to a full on deathstar of 40-50 with multiple characters and the regen banner.

rob_appo
20-05-2011, 18:38
Id see myself using a largish unit as mostly play around 2.4k or just 2k. I would definatly take em just for the models.

Glenn87
22-05-2011, 14:09
If you like skellies, you'll LOVE this unit:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_o4p01XLkgKM/Sri-m7cp7UI/AAAAAAAAACo/76EGuewR--4/s1600-h/fantasy_unit_1st_bill_hallam.jpg

The Cursed Company.
It has Skaven, Orc, Elf and beastmen skellies. It would be a great addition to your army, if you can find them!!