PDA

View Full Version : Dealing with light armour as DE?



Nubl0
21-05-2011, 23:24
Played my first gmae with DE today and I must say, it was really fun... that is until I played a guard army. All my matches had been pretty close wins and draws and were really fun for both sides, I had no problem popping land raiders and the lack with a little effort... but how in gods name do you deal with chimera spam? There was literally nothing I could, I just didnt have enough lance shots to take them many out. Not to mention they could easily shoot down my raiders and ravagers whereas I would ahve to dedicate atleast 5 odd lance shots just to kill one chimera.

So I ask you, how do DE deal with light armour spam? Btw I'm new to playing 40k and dont know anything about decent lists and stuff, im mainly a fantasy player and wanted to chillax with a simpler game for awhile. Off to top of my head the guard list was... chimeras... chimeras... more chimeras... and some vet inside them.

Thud
21-05-2011, 23:34
1. Bring a lot more lance weapons and use your movement to get side armour shots.

2. Suppressive fire. Some times a single glancing hit will do. If he's shaken or stunned he's not shooting at you next turn and you can focus on something else.

Corporeal
21-05-2011, 23:56
since it's all about light armour: movement, blasters and disintegrator cannons.

A jetfighter can help aswell. It's superfast movement and dual lances will either immobilize or pop a chimera.

LegionX
22-05-2011, 00:01
The Guard list you describe is arguably THE worst match-up for DE (of any flavour) :(

Do you have:

3 Ravagers with DLs?
a blaster in every Warrior squad?
any squads of 4 Trueborn with blasters in a Venom?
Haywire grenades in all Wych squads?

If the answer to any is 'no', then those are your first ports of call.

In terms of tactics, you'll also need to concentrate on as few enemy units as possible with as much of your army as possible. If your opponent's deployment zone iss full of Chimeras then try to take advantage of their lack of maneuverability.

Also, the rulebook recomends having approx. 25% of the board covered in terrain, which I rarely see actually happen. Less than this will favour the Guard, so ensure your terrain setup is 'fair' :rolleyes:

Nubl0
22-05-2011, 00:11
I had 2 ravagers, and quite a few blasters. I did try to focus fire them, but he could just blow my stuff up so much easier than me plus the fact he outnumbered me. I'm willing to accept it is a bad matchup but it just odesnt seem and very fun list to play against or with at all. I mean it's just moving around a bunch of tanks without actually using infantry. It just made the game very boring if you know what I mean. I had about 200pts worth of incubi that did jack all seeing as they couldnt get to anything inside those boxs.

However I really enjoyed my previous 3 games against wolves, marines and tyranids and so did my opponents. Didn't help that the guy playing the guard treated it as a chore rather than a social game. No communcation just short curt instructions on how to play and what he was going to kill.. not even commenting on bad luck or anything. Hasnt put me off 40k though as like I said I am finding it very fun.

Probably going to add a talos or chronos and some other coven wackiness to my list when thye come out. Might start a Plog about my De actually... I would also like some tips on how to use my reaver too, they seem really cool but I dunno how to use them well. I currently have 6 with 2 heat lances and cluster caltrops.

dubhgilla
22-05-2011, 02:47
A jetfighter can help aswell. It's superfast movement and dual lances will either immobilize or pop a chimera.

These forums are full of stupid answers like this.

The duel lances will either miss, fail to Pen, stun, shake, weapon destroy, immobilize, destroy or explode.

6 of the 8 are of no use. So another 100+ points he has wasted.

Go with LegionX advise.

Also maybe a Talos to attract his attention/fire.

Col. Tartleton
22-05-2011, 03:02
You're lucky he's not spamming three death strikes Or manticores completely surrounded by chimeras two deep and dual masters of ordinance. Say goodbye to half the board... As your entire army gets hit with templates.

SgtTaters
22-05-2011, 03:18
So I ask you, how do DE deal with light armour spam?...Off to top of my head the guard list was... chimeras... chimeras... more chimeras... and some vet inside them.
Yeah, spam as much lance as you can as others have said is the standard.

There is a limit to a chimera's speed (though their range is still good) and you can only maneuver so many metal boxes around until they bump into each other.
Consider deployment. How are you attacking them and how are they maneuvering? Does this list also have indirect fire ordinance, or is everything direct fire chimeras and meltavets?

Attack his army like a focused spear. Use your 24" and 12" move-shoot movement to get all your skimmers together and concentrate all those lances on one flank, you'll get your stuns, shakens, immobilizations and wrecks.
Work his vehicles against him as they begin to block each other's movement and line of sight.

Also, how much terrain is on the board? IG excel on low terrain boards, DE get a huge bonus from having something to hide raiders vehind.


Probably going to add a talos or chronos and some other coven wackiness to my list when thye come out.
With all the stunning DE can get, it means guaranteed hits for your monstrous creatures. I wonder how grotesques with a s6 charge would also do. Wracks also get FNP from s6 chimera fire.


I would also like some tips on how to use my reaver too, they seem really cool but I dunno how to use them well. I currently have 6 with 2 heat lances and cluster caltrops.

Heatlance targets the enemy vehicles that absolutely must die (hopefully...). Turboboost near target, then 12" move, 9" shot and 6" into/behind cover (skillful rider makes this reliable)
You can turboboost the reavers to screen your transport's advance, or use the 6" to move behind a raider.

Stacking a ride-by attack weapon and shooting weapon on one squad is generally discouraged as only one can be used per turn. As DE have no trouble vs infantry I'd drop the caltrops and spend those points elsewhere to fit in more blasters.

Torpedo Vegas
22-05-2011, 05:09
Scourges with Haywire blasters are great for suppression, and you can then focus your heavier weapons on th ebig bad tanks. Dissies work, and if you have beastmaster units, then Razorwing rending attacks could do the trick. I've had luck with roving packs of Grotesques, tearing apart Eldar tanks with their bear hands.

MOMUS
22-05-2011, 05:33
Do you have:

3 Ravagers with DLs?
a blaster in every Warrior squad?
any squads of 4 Trueborn with blasters in a Venom?
Haywire grenades in all Wych squads?


My regular opponent has just started DE and has two of the four, my advice was to get the other two with his next purchase.
Trueborn in Venoms seems like poetic justice for guard.

Krovin-Rezh
22-05-2011, 08:42
Trueborn in Venoms seems like poetic justice for guard.
Unfortunately, not really. It takes more than 7 (!) dark light shots to average one destroyed AV10 vehicle.

Nubl0, it seems like Thud's second point about suppressive fire is what you're missing. Torpedo Vegas also has some good suggestions. If you have the reasonable amount of anti-tank and are losing, it's time to focus on keeping that anti-tank around so it can do it's job. Do NOT focus you attacks on a few targets. Spray darkness at as many chimeras as possible by moving on as soon as you do a damage result. Any damage result will do. Even immobilized is good because then you can finish that one off with haywire grenades/razorwing flocks/grotesques/etc. Every other result will prevent them shooting you.

Bunnahabhain
22-05-2011, 10:00
Guard is the worst match up for DE, fullstop. Doesn't matter what kind of Guard really.

DE have lots of tricks that makes good stuff less good, often by simply ignoring it. Power weapons, lances, haywires, poison, etc, etc, etc. Guard stuff is generally cheap and cheerful, so simply doesn't care about these things. Oh, you wound on 4+. Wow, most to the game seems to do so on 3s. Oh, I lose my 5+ armour save- just means the squad will definitely die, so your assault unit is free to be shot at again.. Oh you count my armour 10-12 vehicles as armour 10-12. Wow.

The advice above is sound, but is missing one crucial thing. Pray that no hydras appear. If they do, put them at the top of your must be neutralised now list. TL autocannons that ignore your SMF save will blow raiders and ravangers out of the air like paper aeroplanes.

Shamana
22-05-2011, 10:06
Aren't flickerfields more or less standard issue on DE vehicles? I do know that 4+ is better than 5+, but it provides some protection against hydras.

Xelkireth
22-05-2011, 21:03
Haywire grenades and a multi-assault pulled of by Wyches will do the trick.

Angelust
22-05-2011, 21:37
Yeah, DashofPepper on Dakka has a pretty good tactica about DE. One thing.

Parking lots are usually filling up their deployment zone, and if you win first turn, you can have your Haywire wyches charge first turn (barring an initiative steal).

Turn your Raiders sideways on the deployment line, first turn pivot (gains a couple inches), go forward 12 inches, deploy wyches starting 2" away from the front prow, fleet d6 inches, charge 6". You should pretty reliably be able to charge into his deployment zone unless he's deploying ALL the way back, in which case, his tanks are likely spread out all over the board. If you're lucky, you should be able to suppress at least 3 tanks from a single charge by shaking/stunning them. This is even worse for the Guard player if he's going second, because the tanks have not moved and you're automatically hitting them.

Now that your wyches are directly up against his tanks, you can possibly continue haywiring them on his turn, and it'll be difficult for the Guard player to line up lots of shots on you, especially if you've suppressed his front tanks.


Otherwise, lots of lances and try to focus-fire sections of the board as much as you can. Guard is a tough match-up for DE, as the basic chimera is cheaper, sturdier, and more killy versus DE vehicles.

Alternatively Webway Portals with Haywire wyches and Beastmaster Khymeras can be difficult for a parking lot to stop. Except for the master of the fleet, dang it. :-)

LegionX
22-05-2011, 22:20
Turn your Raiders sideways on the deployment line, first turn pivot (gains a couple inches)...

That's a sneaky sneaky tactic, but I do it too :angel: This actually gains you 3", so you get a charge distance of between 24" and 29" (depending on how far you run) :evilgrin:

orkmiester
23-05-2011, 09:43
go with what has been said here about the guard, i've come bloody close though...

any other army? well you should not have too much trouble- marines well that depends upon the flavour:rolleyes:

on the razorwing, ok it may not be 'as good as' a ravager but it has a potential that guard cannot ignore and i encourage you to play a game where a mech guard player takes your ravagers out on turn one regardless of flickerfields etc:wtf:

as i have said guard are the 'problem' army for DE and always have been depending on the player's of course...:angel:

Kalishnikov-47
24-05-2011, 20:31
As others have said...

Darklight weaponry in general.
Beastmasters (I know I am going to get a flogging for this).
Scourges with Haywire Blasters.
Wyches with Haywires.
Talos with TL Haywire Blasters.


If you are desperate....
Reavers, with Heat Lance/Blaster


What I like is that you can do any themed list and still have reasonable AT

If you did a Haemonculi Coven you could have nothing but

Wracks, Grots, Scourges, Talos, and Haemos and still have decent AT in the form of Haywire Blasters, Darklight weaponry from Transports, and Ravagers. I still take em just because point for point they are awesome.

Wych Cults just take Haywire grenades and use the Dark Lances on their transports and Ravagers. Beastmasters.

Kabals use their access to a metric shitton of Darklight weaponry to carry the day.

As the late Captain Planet says, "The power is yours!"

Loq-Gor
24-05-2011, 22:39
I personally like the webway portal. Get it close to the center of his army and let reavers with heatlances, wyches with haywire grenades, Talos with anything, and if desperate beastmasters with razorwings and clawed fiends pour out of it. Then just make sure that Archon that dropped it has a haywire grenade and run him into the closest chimera. This is how I deal with my buddy's horde of rhinos and dreadnoughts.

Corporeal
25-05-2011, 05:52
The duel lances will either miss, fail to Pen, stun, shake, weapon destroy, immobilize, destroy or explode.

so tell me.. why is it I have success with the jetfighter but you don't?

BTW, I love it when someone says a suggestion of mine is 'stupid' without a 'why it's stupid'.

I've become quite the specialist in games that don't fit the traditional meta, such as fighting necrons sans c'tan/lith, IG troop spam, gaunt heavy hordes and pink horror hordes. No one in our little gaming group plays marines, believe it or not.

----------

reavers would be pretty gross in a field where there's a lot of terrain. Mainly because you can get to the sides fast and then use that awesome 6" assault move to duck into cover. it's JSJ on crack.

Kalishnikov-47
25-05-2011, 06:01
Oh and invest in Night Shields. They will help you in that 36" firefights you are bound to have with the IG parking lot.


I buy them on all of my Raiders as well as Flickerfields in a 1500pt list. They have saved my ass more than I care to remember. Not to mention the abject horror on your opponents face when they find out they are out of range and the puzzlement that occurs after they realise they need to be within 6" MORE is priceless. Easily worth the 10pts in my book.

Cheers.

Sami
25-05-2011, 11:01
Aren't flickerfields more or less standard issue on DE vehicles? I do know that 4+ is better than 5+, but it provides some protection against hydras.

Hydras only remove cover saves from moving at fast speed, not all cover saves. If you're obscured by LOS then you still get the cover save vs them.

And yes, mech guard is the worst match-up, and also the main reason I picked Vect - easist way to deal with mech guard is get the first turn and alpha strike the living hell out of as much as possible before he does the same to you :P