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View Full Version : old timers...."back in my day!"



lopezpie
24-05-2011, 02:35
I have always found it super interesting when I go to a new gaming store or talk to some vet players about old rules and editions.. its always a very fun conversation... I guess what I'm trying to say and find out is...

What rules from previous editions do you miss?

or are there any rules from the older editions be it 40k or fantasy that were just the most ridiculous things ever written?

Thanks in advance

tezdal
24-05-2011, 02:51
Not so much rules, but I remember cracking open the 5th edition rulebook and find it more "fun" I guess, with all the little knights getting flamed etc in little doodles on the bottom pages...but I was like 9 at the time so that might be it. It seemed more light hearted then games do now.

tmarichards
24-05-2011, 03:06
I miss the old cartoon-esque 'Eavy metal paintjobs... but that's just because I love that style of painting, with the old inks so everything is shinyyyyyyyyyyy...

The old 6th ed rules for lapping round are something I am glad vanished... very annoying.

cavatica76
24-05-2011, 05:55
Overwatch.

russellmoo
24-05-2011, 06:06
I liked the concept of wrap-around- but as a game mechanic it really was a huge pain (it took up so much time)-

The cards for magic was also a lot of fun- the downside again was time- (the magic phase took as long as all other phases put together)

My favorite broken rule- Doomwheel's would double their movement when moving off of a hill if you rolled high enough it meant a turn 1 charge, not to mention they also would prevent a caster from casting if they where within 6" of him-

I don't really miss any core rule or change in game mechanic as I like the direction 8th ed is taking Warhammer- in the case of steadfast they may have gone too far but any of the quirks with 8th will be fixed with 9th ed or by the new army books (which so far have done a great job of creating balanced and interesting armies)

I do wish that it only took 4 25mm bases to make a rank, and horde for 25mm bases was 8 models but that's just because of the large foot print created by a horde of orcs-

Scythe
24-05-2011, 06:23
Not a rule, but the ability to include random wandering monsters in almost every army in 4th-5th edition was rather fun (though quite nonsensical).

Also, 4th edition Undead mummies. An infantry unit with T5 and W4? Wight cavalry with T4 W3? Fun stuff.

Leogun_91
24-05-2011, 06:49
Gyrocopters crashing when killed and the siege rules are both missed.

Lord of Divine Slaughter
24-05-2011, 07:43
The old skirmish rules. The 8th ed. rules are clunky and awkward opposed to the old rules, they just seem very 'gamey' :p

plantagenet
24-05-2011, 08:33
I used to quite like the tank cards in 2nd edition 40k. Turrets being blown off tanks and landing on troops etc made it all seem really cool....but time always removes the painful or frustrating side of your memory.

I also liked the sustained fire dice but can see why they wouldnt work in the bigger sized games we play today.

dragonet111
24-05-2011, 08:34
I miss the merged Chaos army and the rules to summon a greater daemon.

SkawtheFalconer
24-05-2011, 09:23
In 5th ed (may have been the case earlier) if you kill the Vampire general, the entire Undead army disappears.

Although admittedly it was bloody hard to kill a Vampire, unless you had the High Elf banishment spell.

Oh, and my Treeman desperately misses 'Rooted to the spot', where he was unbreakable unless wounded, my dryads miss their aspects, and my wardancers could really do with the 'combat is a draw, neither side strikes' wardance!.

Scythe
24-05-2011, 09:34
In 5th ed (may have been the case earlier) if you kill the Vampire general, the entire Undead army disappears.


Not the entire army; characters survived (and it could be that the units they lead survived as well... not sure).

BigbyWolf
24-05-2011, 10:12
Lapping round, double attacks for frenzy, basic troops with 2/3 wounds. The ability to have my Black Orc General wearing the Bretonnian king's Armour of Brilliance, Karl Franz's Silver Seal and a 100 point sword, wizards that could actually fight...

Aaaaah, the old days...herohammer and plastic models that all looked identical...


Although admittedly it was bloody hard to kill a Vampire, unless you had the High Elf banishment spell.

Or Morks Spirit Totem...give it to a unit of boar boyz and charge it straight at the Vampire. As soon as it touches, he goes pop. Von Carstein Ring brings him back somewhere else? Wheel, and go after him again.

Korraz
24-05-2011, 10:24
Monsters, Siege, Surrounding, proper rules for different weapons...
Not to mention Back In My Day You Could Buy 30 State Troopers For Fifty Pence.

khaosgoblin
24-05-2011, 10:37
I liked it when Undead where unstable & had random effects every turn & also the random chaos warrior abilities.

Another favorite was the "Empire" sub rules for Araby, cathay etc.

Lesser goblins at 1 point a model.

Khaosgoblin

Crymson
24-05-2011, 10:41
I liked it when undead were one army, and the old flying high rule.

The Clairvoyant
24-05-2011, 10:56
I miss the flying high rules. Turn one take off, turn two land on your opponents warmachine crew and eat them.

Lapping round was always a pain (and hobgoblin sneaky gits could lap round even if they lost combat, then again so did zombies i think in the brief 5th edition VC book)

Yes, if you kill the undead general then the undead player automatically loses the game. (that would be me in our group)

Mummy Tomb King on skeleton steed with sword of WS10 and Tomb Kings Crown giving all units within 12" his WS (and BS of 0). Now where have i seen a version of that combo recently...

Another rule i miss is killing the general causing a panic test.

And 25% of your points being allowed for allies - although it invariably meant that my dwarf opponent would turn up with a Level 5 High Mage and cast Banishment on me. *grumble grumble*
But then I'd take an undead army with Deathmaster Sniktch and a Vermin Lord as allies

sigur
24-05-2011, 11:18
I liked how there were chances to kill the horses/whatever that drew the chariots. Also missing chariots drawn by four horses/wolves.

Missing a proper Undead army greatly where Vampires are just one choice between many others (as they should be).

But actually and simply ruleswise, I think that WHFB 7th/8th edition work fine. Probably the finest since 3rd edition.

tezdal
24-05-2011, 11:34
I remember back in the day when my Knights with lances managed to hit elves with nary a butter knife first on the charge

BigbyWolf
24-05-2011, 11:41
Also missing chariots drawn by four horses/wolves.

You still can with wolf chariots, can't you? You just have to buy 'em extra.



But actually and simply ruleswise, I think that WHFB 7th/8th edition work fine. Probably the finest since 3rd edition.

Would be fun to rework the old Undead book for this edition though...I miss when Liches could kick the snot out of other lords!

Orktavius
24-05-2011, 11:44
The old skirmish rules. The 8th ed. rules are clunky and awkward opposed to the old rules, they just seem very 'gamey' :p

while I think the 8th ed rules are a bit off the mark for skirmishers I don't miss the old rules which basically felt like plunking down a 40k combat squad in a game of ranked infantry. just my 2 cents

Lorcryst
24-05-2011, 12:00
Hmmm ... I miss the dry humour of previous editions (5th/6th), the fact that all three factions of Chaos were a single army (plus a bunch of gobbos and dark elves), but most importantly I miss the old prices and boxes ... there were true gems, like the undead box with 3 chariots, 40 skeletons, 8 horsemen for the price of a 10-man box nowadays, or the old "Halberdiers of Altdorf", a single box with 40 models ...

Oh, and I miss the old squig herd rules, with hoppers in there that could pop out of the unit, fun times :p

mortiferum
24-05-2011, 12:34
What edition could you find the following:
Plus 4 Shock Elite troops
Zoats
Fimir

Kevlar
24-05-2011, 12:37
monster list is what i miss the most. oh and my grey seer having the same stat line as a warlord. i have my old chimera, giant spider, and giant scorpion models on my shelf. my poor cockatrice lost his wings to a 40k demon prince!

Sedekiel
24-05-2011, 13:01
VC Bloodlines...
Old Wood elves (that sucked more than they do now....XD)
Storm of Chaos Summer campaign...
The old "chicken" Karl Franz...not the new "heroic" one...

SpikeyChaosDwarf
24-05-2011, 13:07
What edition could you find the following:
Plus 4 Shock Elite troops
Zoats
Fimir

3rd edition.

Back then any army with cavalry could do a cavalry wedge. On the first turn, only the point man in the wedge fought, if he killed his opponent then the next two guys in the wedge fought, then 3, etc. If you won all the rounds of combat then the wedge smashed through the opponents lines and they automatically broke. All the rounds of combat were fought on one turn so it was a great way to break the enemy.

Lapping around was a good one.
Archer wedges that allowed any archer with line of sight to fire.
2" pushback if you won a round of HTH meant units could lose ranks as they were pushed right off the board.
Infantry squares, shield walls, tetsudos, could all be used back then as well.

Don Zeko
24-05-2011, 13:08
Back in the day frenzy didn't give you +1 attack, it doubled your attacks. And the Cauldron of Blood tripled your attacks, so a Witch Elf hero (who got +1 strength from poison) would get 10 attacks.

Okuto
24-05-2011, 13:10
.......6th edition
.......decent box prices/sizes
.......Dogs of War
.......Merged Chaos Army
.......good old white dwarf

the list goes on

SkawtheFalconer
24-05-2011, 13:11
oh and my grey seer having the same stat line as a warlord.

Blimey, I'd forgotten that - Wizards were just as competent fighters as 'fighting' characters! It really did suck to be troop-type back in the day.

Tarian
24-05-2011, 13:19
HE honor system in 6th.

I liked it, and hoped they'd expand it, but nope...

Nightmare84
24-05-2011, 13:22
Super fighty slann that murdered everyone

Emperors class dragons with lots stat at 10 and could be color chosen like it was dragonlance.

Flyin high

Wishing
24-05-2011, 13:22
I never played by them, but reading the rules from the realm of chaos era of warhammer is fascinating stuff. Chaos armies fielding ethereal hosts of spectres and ghosts, and chaotic hosts of manticores and other chaos beasts... tzeentch thrall wizards and nurgle's diseased flagellants... so much character. At least the chaos war altars (shrines) have returned! :)

And elementals that had the same number for all their stats. And could be summoned into battle without needing to buy them. So weird.

redshylock
24-05-2011, 13:29
Hydra Sword (1hit =D6 hit)!! A Frenzy Khorne Lord could dish out 60 hits!
I also missed the undead bone chariot which is a very nice model.

Purplebeard
24-05-2011, 13:32
Dwarf runes that were actually good. Master Rune of Gromril = T10 :D

Dwarven Runelords that could slaughter everything, and, in general, Dwarven characters who could smash everybody else (except Archaon, Lord Kroak, and Teclis maybe).

The 25% allies allowance - I never used that. Kind of wish I had now - L5 HE wizard, or Slann Mage Lord in a Dwarf Elites bunker, or a dragon (could never afford the models back then :cries: ) - they would have been fun under 4th/5th edition!

Archaon, hilariously owning everything (and I mean everything), literally destroying EVERYTHING in his path. It brings back memories of trying to trick him and blow him up with invisible cannons at either end of my battle line (which you could do back in the day), but agonisingly realising that I had placed my Dwarf blocks about 2" too far forward, so they couldn't fire!

theshoveller
24-05-2011, 14:08
VC Bloodlines...
Old Wood elves (that sucked more than they do now....XD)
Storm of Chaos Summer campaign...
The old "chicken" Karl Franz...not the new "heroic" one...
The "new" heroic one?

He's been a hard bastard on a griffon since about 1990!

;)

BigbyWolf
24-05-2011, 16:08
Storm of Chaos Summer campaign...

That's not "old-time"! I class SoC as part of todays Warhammer! :p

Grudge of Drong...now that's an old-school campaign...although I'm sure others out there can remember earlier ones. :shifty:


Blimey, I'd forgotten that - Wizards were just as competent fighters as 'fighting' characters!

Sometimes even more so- Wizard Lords used to have 4 wounds and could take 4 magic items.

Nuada
24-05-2011, 16:11
3rd edition.

Back then any army with cavalry could do a cavalry wedge. On the first turn, only the point man in the wedge fought, if he killed his opponent then the next two guys in the wedge fought, then 3, etc. If you won all the rounds of combat then the wedge smashed through the opponents lines and they automatically broke. All the rounds of combat were fought on one turn so it was a great way to break the enemy.

Lapping around was a good one.
Archer wedges that allowed any archer with line of sight to fire.
2" pushback if you won a round of HTH meant units could lose ranks as they were pushed right off the board.
Infantry squares, shield walls, tetsudos, could all be used back then as well.

I used to like 2nd and 3rd edition, much more than all the herohammer era. Couple of things were clumsy, but i prefer it overall

I remember i liked the potential of all the different choices you had with your units (tortoise, squares etc) But the reality was we hardly ever used any.... i think the tetsudos was ..."no marching, half movement, +2 (or +1) armour" It never seemed worth it for the movement reduction.

For my old wood elves. I miss zoats, shapechangers and units of wolves, boars, cats.
I also used to have a level 20 hero on a manticore (every army took manticores they were the best) He was very powerful, but don't miss him.

Sedekiel
24-05-2011, 16:51
The "new" heroic one?

He's been a hard bastard on a griffon since about 1990!

;)

Fluffwise I mean... I remember up to 2000 he was refered to as a bit of a wuss...
After that he became a beacon of heroism and hope....

And come on SoC was on 2004 how could you consider it nowadays warhammer lol....

OMG how do those years pass....

SpikeyChaosDwarf
24-05-2011, 17:51
I used to like 2nd and 3rd edition, much more than all the herohammer era. Couple of things were clumsy, but i prefer it overall

I remember i liked the potential of all the different choices you had with your units (tortoise, squares etc) But the reality was we hardly ever used any.... i think the tetsudos was ..."no marching, half movement, +2 (or +1) armour" It never seemed worth it for the movement reduction.

For my old wood elves. I miss zoats, shapechangers and units of wolves, boars, cats.
I also used to have a level 20 hero on a manticore (every army took manticores they were the best) He was very powerful, but don't miss him.

You are right, the special formations very rarely came into play but for a defensive army like my dwarfs, a tortoise formation for clansmen worked if they got just ahead of the crossbowmen to intercept the charge.

Some of the things that were not great were no leadership penalty for losing combat meant everyone was stubborn, no strength penalty for armor saves made combat less deadly, a different WS chart meant some guys were almost impossible to hit. Combat used to go forever with very few casualties. Still, there was an entirely different feel to the game that I really miss from back then.

Chadjabdoul
24-05-2011, 18:35
The "escape" magic card. (wizard teleports to realm of chaos when last wound lost)
My savage orc Shaman Lord would always get it and always came back in the next magic phase (needed a 5+).
After one game against the skaven, where he got to use it 4 times and came back each and every one I finally named him L'immortal (pronounced as french as possible) .

theshoveller
24-05-2011, 19:20
Fluffwise I mean... I remember up to 2000 he was refered to as a bit of a wuss...
After that he became a beacon of heroism and hope....
He's a coward in WFRP supplements from way back, but the Karl Franz on Deathclaw model came out when I first started reading White Dwarf.


And come on SoC was on 2004 how could you consider it nowadays warhammer lol....
I keep having to check myself when referencing in my day job - I think of stuff from the late 90s as 'contemporary research'.

Here's one for my fellow veterans:

random tables for everything - wargear/magic items, battlefield events, special abilities... I haven't seen a good one since Necromunda.

Spoik
24-05-2011, 19:29
I miss allies and mercenaries.

And Giant Leeches.

rayrod64
24-05-2011, 20:44
The leg breaker spell..!!!! my favorite cast on the characters for half movement :skull:

and the tetsudo formation..

custom champions!

i miss the old days :cries:

popisdead
24-05-2011, 22:18
People who complain about the game changing should stop playing. Kudos to GW for changing the game and keeping it interesting and fresh. I was so sick of 7th ed that 8th ed seems like winning the lottery of candy unicorns.

I played 6th, 7th and now 8th ed and was so glad the game changed. I also don't pine for the Rogue Trader days. 5th ed 40k is great.

Geep
24-05-2011, 22:22
T7 treeman, so str 3 couldn't wound them, and the ability to fire into combat.

The card magic system was fun, but I used to play outdoors a fair bit back then- slight breezes got really annoying. Also with the old magic system- the ability to boost spells and dispels by expending more cards- it could be a very tactical mini-game.

Although I've never played it, I'd like to see a game where the old chaos gateway spell was cast (can't remember the proper name- 1st or second ed. I think)- every turn roll a dice to see what may come out, possibly including greater daemons. Roll randomly each turn for each daemon to see which side it attacks. The eventual game winner- the daemons...

enyoss
24-05-2011, 22:43
The leg breaker spell..!!!! my favorite cast on the characters for half movement :skull:


That was such a spiteful little spell :D.

Although I don't miss them, some of the old spells are kind of cool to look back on. Illusion of Army was a particularly interesting one, where (if I recall correctly) you cast before the battle and if successful got an addition 2D6 units to set up. Only you knew which were real and which were phoney, and if you're opponent got into combat with a phoney unit it just disappeared :).

Referring to units as regiments... or does that still happen?

Thinking about it, I don't really miss that much from back in the day (apart from some of the cool 4th edition models).

scruffyryan
24-05-2011, 22:45
I miss kroxigor being able to charge through units of skink skirmishers, and the chance that the skirmishers would be trampled when they did.

Kevlar
24-05-2011, 22:48
People who complain about the game changing should stop playing. Kudos to GW for changing the game and keeping it interesting and fresh. I was so sick of 7th ed that 8th ed seems like winning the lottery of candy unicorns.

I played 6th, 7th and now 8th ed and was so glad the game changed. I also don't pine for the Rogue Trader days. 5th ed 40k is great.

Don't worry kid, one day when you can grow facial hair you will understand.

raymon
24-05-2011, 23:13
I Like what GW did with 40k and fantasy, to start off. 3th edition 40k with the first turn win like situations. But i do miss some things.

mixing it up with dogs of war and dogs of war in general. Would be nice to be more allowed to collect what you want and be able to field it (with some restrictions, like a 25% cap, but I would say as little as possible). There are people who might exploit it, or are affraid of it being exploited. But you can say the exploitation is already there with older armybooks not up to date with the rules and newer armybooks having an "edge" in general. I think that allies/mercenaries will level de playing field. In general everbody is allowed to bring allies. Sure you could try to differt your weaknessess with your mercenary troops, but wouldn't every sane general do that with his army.

Not that a 9th edition is needed, they could bring these rules in via an expansion like with 40k's Planet strike, city fight, etc. an expansion in addition being a dogs of war armybook.

I would like to be able to set up a diverse army with men, dwarfs, elves, ogres and giants all fighting under one banner. That way fantasy wargaming, becomes more fantasy.

Jind_Singh
24-05-2011, 23:28
Squig Hoppers! We moved in a random direction, anyone we landed on got auto-hits from the Hopper before it bounced off again - and would keep bouncing until it ran out of units to land on!

Took FOREVER to do but I liked it!

Francis
24-05-2011, 23:34
Dogs of War, The old campaign boxes (Tears of Isha was great), Flying High, all the crazy monsters you could get and generally a more lighter feeling to the game and the stories.

I mean Chaos was still evil and horrible but you could laugh about it a bit back in the days, now everything and everyone, even the earlier so happy wood elves and the noble Bretonnians are so very very dark and cold. The world doesn't have to almost end in fire, death and flames every time in order for a story to be compelling.

HRM
24-05-2011, 23:51
Witch Elf characters. Flying high. Units of Wraiths.

linuvian
24-05-2011, 23:57
The old High Magic Lore.. Apotheosis on Tyrion made him impossible to kill (again), and Assault of Stone was just brutal.

I loved the look on my opponents face when he failed his Carstein Ring roll, and I brought his vampire back against him...

And flying high, with their associated aerial battles between flyers. Classic.

Ender Shadowkin
25-05-2011, 00:54
3rd edition formations.... wedges for cav and archers. tortois shell, shield wall, mixed units of archers and spears. ah those were the days ...games took forever though, lol

also miss the 2" push back..

cornixt
25-05-2011, 00:57
Having about 20 choices of monster mounts. Having them as monsters was a bit odd, but as mounts they could be really fun, especially the Emperor Dragon. Plus the Greater Daemons that were just plain nasty.

LordoftheBrassThrone
25-05-2011, 01:07
When wood elves were powerful. I know, I know, it was a long time ago, but they pincushioned my beastmen many a time.
Lapping round. Skirmishers skirmishing.
When I was more afarid of a cannon than about 5 units of saurus.
Bolt throwers were S7 and killed chariots on 2s.
When I could have an army of a Bloodthirster and lots of chaos knights.

Galladorn
25-05-2011, 01:16
FREE HACKS!!!
And with Mercenaries, I missed the ability to make them change sides during the game!! remember that?

Galladorn
25-05-2011, 01:19
3rd edition Invisible troops and illusion units!

enyoss
25-05-2011, 01:44
3rd edition formations.... wedges for cav and archers. tortois shell, shield wall, mixed units of archers and spears. ah those were the days ...games took forever though, lol


Part of the problem was the slightly modified to-hit table, where equal weapon skill hit on a 5+, and higher weapon skill on a 4+. I used to play Chaos Warbands with my mates and combat was like swimming in honey... much faster to just Evil Eye the poor sods (it was a particularly mean little chaos reward) while they were trying to hit you :D.

lolplates
25-05-2011, 03:48
Nagash was a good model....

Skywave
25-05-2011, 04:49
I miss my old Vampire and Necromancer profile!

Vampire with WS8, S7, T6, A4 and I9 (since ini is oh so important now!). And Necromancer (lord) were WS7, S5, T4 and A5(!). Both with 4 wounds!

And a lot of Undead units were multi-wounds abomination (with equally abomiable point cost to go with it); Ghost had 3 (they were 20mm infantry), Wights had 3 (Grave Guard and Black Knights now), Mummy had 4, and Wraith had 3 (regular infantry).

What I don't miss though, in the old Undead instability. A lot of units would take break test if beaten in combat, and if you fail, boom, unit is wiped! Exception were Skeletons/Horsemen, Carrion (crumble like today), Ghoul didn't take break test, they auto-fled if loosing, and mummy had no special rules, so fled like anything else (making them the best thing around!).

Your (full metal and super pricy money-wise) Zombie lost? Bam, wiped! Your ultra pricy Wraith (75pts a pop) fluffed their attacks and lost even without taking damage? Though luck, dead! And Character where super missile that charged solo to the front so don't think about Ld support too much!

Good old time!

theshoveller
25-05-2011, 07:48
Hell... the original Undead Armies book, with Necromancers running the show!

Munin
25-05-2011, 08:00
I think this thread is awesome, having only played since 6th I find it very interesting to read all this from the earlier versions.

Btw could someone explain the leap around rule?

freddieyu
25-05-2011, 08:17
I remember the days when a 1+ armor save meant s3 could not do a thing, and a successful cast using the "staff of nurgle" meant my 400+ pt t7 slann died immediately....this was 5th ed WHFB

In those days, you autowin versus the undead if you killed the general. Brets could kill a steam tank with the tress of isoulde, and the really powerful armies out there was the brets, lizards, and chaos, so much so that comp restricted each character to only carry 1 magic item each to prevent cheezy combos. The magic itme list was similar to today, with a lot of generic items, all described in cards...

Ha! I remember them, but I do not miss the older editions. 8th ed is so much better....

The Clairvoyant
25-05-2011, 08:19
Basically, if you won combat you could then move models from the rear rank to each flank, thereby giving you more attacks in the next round.

stonegiant
25-05-2011, 08:37
I miss Man O War, probably the most enjoyable game from GW that i ever played. Still have the fleets moored in the garage so will break it out again one day.

RanaldLoec
25-05-2011, 09:18
Do you remember when heavy armour put you at -1 to your movement so with barging knights movement with heavy armour was 6 inch.

I don't miss the old 4th ed detachment rule.

If deployed within 3 inches if the parent unit you may use its LD. Whoop de do.

The old steamtank rules, back then it never got bogged down in combat it could just rumble around the board. Any model it passed over took an initiative test or took a strength 10 hit.

It was great accept against elves.

Oh 4th ed Empire army options there was so much choice.

Halberdiers
Spearmen
Swordsmen
Greatswords
Rieksguard Foot Knights (WS4 ST4 IN4 LD8 was the standard stat line for our knights)
Halflings
DWARFS
OGRES

Great cannons
Mortars
The Halfling hotpot
The Warwagon (big chariot with engineer weapons on board).
Helblaster Holly Gun (that used to auto hit)
Steamtanks (where limited to 8 in am army LOL)
Flaggelants. (at S4 T4 with flails and frenzy)


Runefangs sucked though no armour save allowed does 2 wounds vs undead.

A list of nearly 10 special characters.

No fullplate armour or warrior priests in them days.

Thinking about it the army that has changed the least is Dwarfs. That's actually very in line with the fluff don't you think.

Can I just say though since I've been playing since 4th ed, 8th ed is the best edition yet. I thought 7th was was the inbred off spring of 5th and 6th.

Nuada
25-05-2011, 09:25
And elementals that had the same number for all their stats. And could be summoned into battle without needing to buy them. So weird.

I'd forgotten about them. I used to have a few water/air elementals, i think they were summoned by a spell. str10, T10 was so powerful for such a weedy looking model :D


There was also an amazing spell that had range "battlefield". Winds of death?

I never cast it because it was necromancy, but one of mates cast that with his undead army not deployed on the table (as many as he could in reserve)
He was fighting against a space marine army, and almost wiped them out in turn 1 :p

Mirbeau
25-05-2011, 09:36
Chaos gift cards! You'd roll before a battle and get buffs and hexes, or duels on a different plane of reality, Cool and fluffy.

Vashta
25-05-2011, 10:33
Magic cards (the thrill of getting irresistable force) and flying high.

Haravikk
25-05-2011, 10:41
Siege and Skirmish; I suppose we can just as easily use the more in-depth (and freely availalbe (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat480008a&categoryId=1100010&section=&aId=5300009)) Mordheim rules for tiny skirmish games, but being able to play a ~500 point game as skirmish was great fun, while in 8th it's just not possible without, at the very least, changing how Victory Points are scored.

Archiebollux
25-05-2011, 11:17
Lot of very young "old timers" in this thread:p

My memories of old warhammer rules refer not to the books, but to the very first GW shops that sprung up in the early eighties.
They were so much more loose than the present day. They sold mainly RPG stuff, mostly by TSR, and when first edition Warhammer came in, the games in the shop were much more fun, and anything goes was the rule. Any minis were ok, and everybody was out for fun to begin with, no WAAC merchants for the first few years. The people running the shops seemed much more mature and balanced (though I was but a pimply teenager) than today, and there were very few people we called "Full Use of D Sixers", or FUDS, for short. These were people who instead of enjoying the game as a game, analysed the rules to maximise the number of d6's they could throw, and would call this "tactics". Actually, a quick look at Warseer reveals there are very many FUDs playing the game today. which is a shame. I would never be seen dead in a GW shop now, and only game with others who just want a bit of fun with Minis. Gw shops sound like hell to me.
And it used to be all fields round here.
AND you could leave your front door open.

freddieyu
25-05-2011, 13:41
Basically, if you won combat you could then move models from the rear rank to each flank, thereby giving you more attacks in the next round.

Lapping around!!! yes I miss this rule!!!

theshoveller
25-05-2011, 13:42
Lot of very young "old timers" in this thread:p

My memories of old warhammer rules refer not to the books, but to the very first GW shops that sprung up in the early eighties.
They were so much more loose than the present day. They sold mainly RPG stuff, mostly by TSR, and when first edition Warhammer came in, the games in the shop were much more fun, and anything goes was the rule. Any minis were ok, and everybody was out for fun to begin with, no WAAC merchants for the first few years. The people running the shops seemed much more mature and balanced (though I was but a pimply teenager) than today, and there were very few people we called "Full Use of D Sixers", or FUDS, for short. These were people who instead of enjoying the game as a game, analysed the rules to maximise the number of d6's they could throw, and would call this "tactics". Actually, a quick look at Warseer reveals there are very many FUDs playing the game today. which is a shame. I would never be seen dead in a GW shop now, and only game with others who just want a bit of fun with Minis. Gw shops sound like hell to me.
And it used to be all fields round here.
AND you could leave your front door open.
I bought my red box D&D set in Games Workshop Liverpool, c.1990.

Does anyone else remember 'Combat Cards'?

Commissar Vaughn
25-05-2011, 14:05
I remember real Bretonnians who didnt need nambypamby virtues and special formations and girly blessings. They had Knights and Peasants and Guns and what more is needed?


"Runefangs sucked though no armour save allowed does 2 wounds vs undead."

Seriously? I always thought they were a bargain! Nothing else in the game ignored armour for a mere 30 points. And you could have more than one of them...possibly, the rules werent too clear on that point. They pointed out that there were 12 runefangs, so they supplied two cards in the box. So could you have 12 or 2? Or 1 like everything else?

I remember when every model (or so it seemed) released in WD had a pic with its name on it...Wandered how they avoided doubling up.

Benzan
25-05-2011, 14:51
Hand of dust undead spell.

Charge in with a mounted vampire lord on the enemy general. Hand of dust him and he became a Wraith (mages) or a Wight (other characters).

The carstein ring + Heart of Woe was another fun combo, BOOM! unfortunatly my game group back then banned HoW.

But the orc "blow up enemy wizard" banner was a horror for a undead player. people I met usually had it on a gobbo wolf chariot, nasty nasty

The Clairvoyant
25-05-2011, 14:56
I loved the carstein ring/heart of woe combo.
Shame they did an FAQ later to say the heart of woe was 'one use only' :D

RanaldLoec
25-05-2011, 15:45
Remember Arcane Magic expansion.

The black gem of gnar.

30pts on a champion you would challenge a 700 or 1000 point lord on a dragon both the lord dragon and champion would disappear for most of the game.

Now that truly defined broken forget you're power scroll or book of hoeth

theshoveller
25-05-2011, 16:57
Remember Arcane Magic expansion.

The black gem of gnar.

30pts on a champion you would challenge a 700 or 1000 point lord on a dragon both the lord dragon and champion would disappear for most of the game.

Now that truly defined broken forget you're power scroll or book of hoeth
But hilarious in a way they aren't. I'm glad they brought back Bufo's Hex Scroll from Arcane Magic.

Moe
25-05-2011, 17:15
Magic Cards were interesting...remember Rebound...send the spell back at who cast it! However at one point our decks got mixed up, I was playing Dwarfs, looked at my hand, and had 3 Total Power cards. That explained I was getting total powered every turn!

I don't wish to remember the old High Elf Repeating Bolt Throwers, 4 shots each, penetrating ranks, and no armor save allowed. Only 50 points, and you could have 25% of your army consist of them. 10 in a 2000 point game. Most of my battle plan would revolve around trying to deal with them.

I did like the Allies rules, not to be Cheezy, but just being able to add a unit or two from another army to yours added some variety and allowed you to paint something different. Unfortunatley they could be abused to no end (I remember in a friendly Tournament taking a Lord of Change with my Orcs!)

Griffonclaw
25-05-2011, 17:24
I love how the game evolved and went from style to style, but do think the games waa at it most fun (both to play and fluffwise) around 5 or 6th ed. The more recent rules that got scrapped and are missed by me definately include the gyro crashing, which added so much character and fun to the game, and the squig herd jumping all over the place!

Malorian
25-05-2011, 17:47
I started with 40k and didn't get into fantasy until 6th, but what I miss are the vampire bloodlines.

For years I wanted to do a Lahmian vampire list but stayed away only due to the buckets of ugly skeletons I would need.

Well when the models were redone I decided to give it a go but unfortunately a new book came with it and the bloodlines were gone :(

Sure there are a few Lahmian things there but you can't make enemy character not attack or even attack their own unit, and you can take heros from other books into your own (they had fallen in love with your Lahmian leader).

The 4 wound lord version was also nice ;)

Morkash
25-05-2011, 17:47
I recently got the 5th edition Warhammer Magic and was surprised how many spells they just "re-introduced", Purple Sun and many more! Given how many of you enjoyed the older editions I really wish i'd seen them first hand, because reading through Realm of Chaos: TLatD or the Warhammer Magic is just great:
Nurgle's Rot was wickedly complexe, as most of the rules in Realm of Chaos, but very, very fluffy...not to mention the vast tables to roll for your gifts!
Edit: And of course the holy numbers... "Fielded in units of 7, or any multiple of 7." :)
The old O&G magic was nice as well, every race was quite different. And Morgor the Mangler showed who is da Boss back then. +1WS, +1S, +1T, ASF and ignores Armour. WAAAAAAGH!

ekalb
26-05-2011, 00:30
*In an old and raspy voice*
Back in my day there was such things as a dust goblin, the chaos army was all three fractions combined and if you rolled right you could kill a huge chunk of the opposing army before the first turn started, the tomb kings used scrolls instead of spells, Etherion the Grim was blind, and I had a slann so bad a@@ that it was only able to be wounded by a deamon or magic war machine! Oh and I could pile 100 skinks onto a Steg and watch whatever it charged die just from their attacks!

And for the final awesome rule................................. My Terminators had a 3+ save on 2d6!

Agoz
26-05-2011, 00:48
I started with 40k and didn't get into fantasy until 6th, but what I miss are the vampire bloodlines.

For years I wanted to do a Lahmian vampire list but stayed away only due to the buckets of ugly skeletons I would need.

Well when the models were redone I decided to give it a go but unfortunately a new book came with it and the bloodlines were gone :(

Sure there are a few Lahmian things there but you can't make enemy character not attack or even attack their own unit, and you can take heros from other books into your own (they had fallen in love with your Lahmian leader).

The 4 wound lord version was also nice ;)
technically the ability to take characters from other armies was part of a permission only appendix list so really wasn't actually legal. You could probably do the same thing today with the same condition of permission only!

AvatarForm
26-05-2011, 00:50
Overwatch.

Beat me to it.

TonyFlow
26-05-2011, 01:27
I miss invisible gyrocopters turning up from out of nowhere flaming a unit of chaos knights with its no armour save steam gun (only s3 but still i guess that could be higher with more runes).

Evil Hypnotist
26-05-2011, 13:41
Overwatch.

+1

2nd Ed. 40k rules in general really, hence why I haven't played it since 3rd came out.

Support for Necromunda and Quest

Being able to buy a squad of ten metal models for 15 (although inflation does have it's part to play here I suppose)

Panzer MkIV
26-05-2011, 13:53
Coming from someone who started back in 1998 with 5th edition

The things I miss the most are:

White Dwarf was worth reading
Support for Specialist games and the ability to buy them in the store instead of direct only
The cheap, monopose plastics and the first regiment boxes (for the price)
Lapping round
Chaos Dwarfs were a supported army
The gyrocopter bombing run

That said I was glad that 6th edition came out in 2000 and I could leave behind the broken mess that was 5th edition and armies around ranked units instead of characters became viable

The Clairvoyant
26-05-2011, 14:42
Chaos Dwarfs were never that well supported. Even their army book was a "White Dwarf Presents".

But i certainly miss the old 'regiment in a box'. My first one of those was the skeleton warriors, and came with the metal blister to make the command group (later versions had a multi-army plastic sprue) and a movement tray.
I've still never used those metal bits and they're just sitting in a box waiting to be used one day. The asp-horn arm is probably the best piece in there.

Skywave
26-05-2011, 15:20
Seriously? I always thought they were a bargain! Nothing else in the game ignored armour for a mere 30 points. And you could have more than one of them...possibly, the rules werent too clear on that point. They pointed out that there were 12 runefangs, so they supplied two cards in the box. So could you have 12 or 2? Or 1 like everything else?


In 4th edition I believe you could take up to 12 runefangs, an exception to the "unique" item rule. But I also think that they were more than 30pts, closer to 100 in fact, but I could remember wrong.


Hand of dust undead spell.

Charge in with a mounted vampire lord on the enemy general. Hand of dust him and he became a Wraith (mages) or a Wight (other characters).

The carstein ring + Heart of Woe was another fun combo, BOOM! unfortunatly my game group back then banned HoW.

But the orc "blow up enemy wizard" banner was a horror for a undead player. people I met usually had it on a gobbo wolf chariot, nasty nasty

Hand of dust! Yeah you turned enemy into Wights and Wraiths, but the cool thing was that it was sooo ridiculously easy to do! Vampire had base S7, spell makes both character roll a dice, add their strenght, then the undead player double his score! The difference is the number of wounds caused, nasty!

I also remember the Chaos gift cards, my friend was playing Chaos, and you could do sooo many powerfull combo. In theory, you could get a bunch of +1 attacks cards, pumping your attack beyond 10, if not 20+ (with the maximum number of cards in the deck, theorically of course), then have the mark of Khorne for Frenzy (double your attack), and using Hydra Sword (something like each hit you do in CC became 1D6 hit). Now that was a true Herohammer :D

theshoveller
26-05-2011, 15:29
I also remember the Chaos gift cards, my friend was playing Chaos, and you could do sooo many powerfull combo. In theory, you could get a bunch of +1 attacks cards, pumping your attack beyond 10, if not 20+ (with the maximum number of cards in the deck, theorically of course), then have the mark of Khorne for Frenzy (double your attack), and using Hydra Sword (something like each hit you do in CC became 1D6 hit). Now that was a true Herohammer :D
...leading to a White Dwarf special on how to deal with Frenzied units and characters - with the strict clarification that Frenzy only doubled the attacks on your base profile.

Might have been one of the first things Tuomas Pirinen wrote for the game, but I could be wrong.

gd09garett
26-05-2011, 18:21
SNIP
Halberdiers
Spearmen
Swordsmen
Greatswords
Rieksguard Foot Knights (WS4 ST4 IN4 LD8 was the standard stat line for our knights)
Halflings
DWARFS
OGRES

Great cannons
Mortars
The Halfling hotpot
The Warwagon (big chariot with engineer weapons on board).
Helblaster Holly Gun (that used to auto hit)
Steamtanks (where limited to 8 in am army LOL)
Flaggelants. (at S4 T4 with flails and frenzy)


SNIP

KISLEV! I loved my Winged Lancers and Horse Archers.

SpikeyChaosDwarf
26-05-2011, 18:28
I went looking through my 3rd edition Warhammer Armies book last night, so many things I miss!

I would really like to re-introduce gnomes to the dwarf army. Armies of Nippon, Norse, Ally lists, Fimir, Zoats, spiders and scorpions for every army, goblins with organ guns (goblin leadbelcher), the list goes on and on.

Khorne armies could take chaos dwarfs, nurgle could take zombies and skeletons to represent those killed by plague, slaneesh had dark elves, tzeench had ? (I forget, sorry).

High Elf Dragonkin, remember these guys? They were the predecessors to the current dragon princes. A unit of 5 HE on dragons.

A lot of good things have been added over the years but there were some things lost along the way as well.

Coatl
27-05-2011, 04:02
"I had a slann so bad a@@ that it was only able to be wounded by a deamon or magic war machine! Oh and I could pile 100 skinks onto a Steg and watch whatever it charged die just from their attacks!"

I remember these. I've heard reports that some have modeled large towers on the backs of Stegs to carry all those skinks.

KHolbourn
27-05-2011, 15:41
In WFB I miss a few things like the Battle Magic box with all those cards, the flying high rules and all that nonsense.

Aside from that what I miss the most if Man'O'War. Which I though was the best game thye ever released!

And of course the sub-plots and random stats for characters in the Rogue Trader book for 40K- the way 40K is supposed to be played rather than a special character, some tanks and a few elites.

Skywave
27-05-2011, 18:07
...leading to a White Dwarf special on how to deal with Frenzied units and characters - with the strict clarification that Frenzy only doubled the attacks on your base profile.

Might have been one of the first things Tuomas Pirinen wrote for the game, but I could be wrong.

Didn't had access to WD back then, nor were we looking for it. It was only theory though, my friend never tried it for real :p


In WFB I miss a few things like the Battle Magic box with all those cards, the flying high rules and all that nonsense.

Fly high, I remember seeing a game in a store, there was a fight of 2 high-flying characters, one being a skaven on a cockatrice. The cockatrice got killed, and the skaven player decided to gently lob the skaven on the table to "ramdomly" determine were he fell :p

Spoik
27-05-2011, 19:56
I miss Zoats.

I'm thinking of converting some to use as treekin.

I miss halflings and ogres and dwarfs and Kislevites in Empire armies.

I miss the names 'Helldrakes' and Doomdrakes,' 'Gruntas' and Snortas.'

wazdakka!
27-05-2011, 20:04
long time reader of the site, thought i'd finally get around to posting when i saw this thread. been playing fantasy since '94. mainly OnG, have dabbled a bit in 40k and necromunda.

what i miss the most was my 4-5th edition tooled up unit of savage orc boar boyz. because frenzy doubled your attacks back in the day the warboss would hit with 8 attacks and the lv 4 shaman with 6. it was awesome.

Commissar Vaughn
27-05-2011, 20:49
In 4th edition I believe you could take up to 12 runefangs, an exception to the "unique" item rule. But I also think that they were more than 30pts, closer to 100 in fact, but I could remember wrong.


Was defo thirty points each....twenty less than sword of justice (which for a while at least only ignored normal armour not magic armour....Used to love little distinctions like that!) . We used to hand 'em out like sweeties to any hero or champion in the army. Got so bad that people stopped using heavily armoured cavalry against us for fear of getting themall chopped up in short order!

Pancakey
27-05-2011, 22:46
Lobotomized slaves, pygmies, zoats!

Lizardmen don't do justice to the old stuff.

Athelassan
28-05-2011, 01:10
I miss Fun. 4th and 5th editions had their problems, but I miss the versatility and variety of the armies back then. Sure, it was possible to be silly (the Wood Elf Hero of Cheese being my personal favourite*) but the worst excesses were always regulated by friendly agreements.

6th edition I find emphasised balance over entertainment, which for a gaming system as inherently random as WFB I found an odd priority. 7th and 8th have improved it a little, but for me it's still not what it was.

*(Hero on Warhawk, Black Gem of Gnar, Heart of Woe. 150 points iirc)

Ath

red_zebra_ve
28-05-2011, 20:20
WD had cardboard inserts with buildings, rules, cards, etc.
You could buy bits from GW.
Man O' War

cool-kid-on-the-block
28-05-2011, 23:07
it seems that both game systems have grown in size in terms of games over time.

where complex rules and very minor changes to things may have played a part in earlier editions, playing a 2000pts game with an rules that take an hour to do one turn is unplausable.

im not trying to stick up for 8th but the tone of the game has changed and the rules have changes do fit.

40k wise i hear that overwatch was a massive game killer.

Skywave
28-05-2011, 23:45
Was defo thirty points each....twenty less than sword of justice (which for a while at least only ignored normal armour not magic armour....Used to love little distinctions like that!) . We used to hand 'em out like sweeties to any hero or champion in the army. Got so bad that people stopped using heavily armoured cavalry against us for fear of getting themall chopped up in short order!

Just remembered that I got a 5th edition Magic book around! And your right, Runefang are 30pts, and there are indeed 12 of them, so you could get one for every characters and champ! But to be fair, the Sword of Justice is pricier but let you re-roll your 'to-hit' roll too, so that might be part of the price. And Runefang are obviously Empire only, you couldn't take advantage of them with another army :p

Lorcryst
28-05-2011, 23:47
Overwatch was a very nice way for Space Marines armies to lock up the board and kill anything that moved during the opponent's turn ... while you could abuse it (using weapons and rules that allowed you to shoot more times and at longer ranges than your opponent), you could also be on the recieving end of it ...

But all in all, it made for really static games (you had to forego movement to be "in overwatch"), and while it did allow for great ambushes, I'm glad it's gone from the current 40K rules, the game flows much more smoothly without overwatch.

I have to agree tough, current editions are both faster and clearer, 3rd ed WFB could get horrendously complex in the "make an army list" phase, let alone actually playing a game...