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DeamonClaw
24-05-2011, 08:59
hey guys,
i wanne make a defensive list, but i have no clue wich army would be the best for this. so i would like to hear youre army, and wich units you would use and how.

Grts
DeamonClaw

ps: preferably a darkness army.

xxRavenxx
24-05-2011, 09:21
Dwarves. Painted dark... :P

Aluinn
24-05-2011, 12:02
hey guys,
i wanne make a defensive list, but i have no clue wich army would be the best for this. so i would like to hear youre army, and wich units you would use and how.

Grts
DeamonClaw

ps: preferably a darkness army.

I would have said Dwarves or Empire first, but since we have the "darkness" requirement, I'd have to say DE and TK are the only options that really fit the bill.

For DE, take lots of repeater crossbowmen, strong magic (probably Lore of Shadow so you can lower enemy T and then shoot them with said crossbows), a Cauldron, a bunch of Shades, and then whatever else you want as close combat support. Spearmen go well with this--if you're taking Lore of Shadow, and manage to get the spell, Okkam's Mindrazor is huge for them--but you may want something that hits a bit harder. The mounted, solo Lord with Pendant and a 1+ armor save can tie up pretty much anything, pretty much forever, so is a good choice for a defensive strategy. The Hydra is also always good, but at this point we may be getting into rather cheesy territory, if the unkillable Pendant dude hasn't taken us there already :). It really depends on how competitive your opponents want to get, but such an army can be pretty devastating, really.

If Tomb Kings count as a "darkness" army (they aren't really evil, but they are undead, and thus might be considered "dark"--I don't really know), they can be defensive as well. They don't get quite as brutal as DE in many ways (no Lore of Shadow, for one thing), but essentially you can pimp out your magic phase with Hierotitan, Casket of Souls, a level 4 and various items, and then take a significant number of archers, backed up by multiple Screaming Skull Catapults. The edge here is that raising your dead is very helpful if you want a reactive strategy, and that they have the catapults, whereas DE are sorely lacking in the war machine department. However, the bow shooting will never really match DE crossbows for deadliness, and they don't have a disruptive unit of such high quality as Shades. Also, though the magic is powerful in a sense, there's a lot of tension between choosing either Death or Light for more raw power, or the army book lore for the raising ability. If you're investing a lot of points in casters then you can certainly have both, but the limitations of power dice will sometimes then prevent you from making full use of them at the same time.

But either of those armies can be plenty good, even if DE are more easily cheesed out--that is, I think TK can be adequately competitive. So, I'd leave it up to your aesthetic sensibilities for deciding which is preferable.

Wargamejunkie
24-05-2011, 14:19
If you go with the Dark Elves, I would look up the old "City Guard" list and use that as a base for your army.

You could take it a step farther if you take the Folding Fortress and model your Dark Elf army as a garrison force.

BigbyWolf
24-05-2011, 14:46
WoC with MoT Warriors only, armed with H/W & shield, backed up by 2 Hellcannons.

freddieyu
24-05-2011, 14:56
dark elves and skaven, as they are the shootiest evil armies out there...

A nuln themed empire army also, since the uniforms are black/dark to represent the soot from the war machines....

Add a few warrior priests and you have a good defensive magic phase as well...

Charistoph
24-05-2011, 15:05
For shear hardiness, you're not going to find a tougher Core than Warriors of Chaos. The next toughest would be Dwarfs followed by the Lizards.

Warriors have good WS, T, and Armor. They also hit back at least as hard as they get hit. Only downside is their cost which makes their numbers limited.

Dwarfs can put the most numbers on the field of those 3, and can field a lot of firepower in defensive positions. Careful placement of certain units can make them very hard to move.

DeamonClaw
24-05-2011, 21:19
hmm, now i'm basicly doubting between dwarves and TK.

already have a dark elf and skaven army could make a pure shootie list tough so they are sorta still in the running.
empire doesnt interest me for some reason.
WoC seem weird as a defensive army, as i would think beeing defensive means wait for youre opponent and i dont see a WoC waiting.
lizards well dont have armour and i like armour, nude ppl scare me :/

that put aside
dwarves cos i can see 'em realy working in a defensive list but not a dark army and i had problems painting my small skaven models, having the same problem with dwarves seems likely.

TK well they are dark and i like their looks, but for some reason i have a feeling they are less likely to be very succesfull but that could be me :/

Charistoph
24-05-2011, 21:59
WoC seem weird as a defensive army, as i would think beeing defensive means wait for youre opponent and i dont see a WoC waiting.

Just saying they can, not would or should.


lizards well dont have armour and i like armour, nude ppl scare me :/

Considering that a Saurus' skin is tougher than what a Empire Swordsman gets, and is as tough as Dwarf Warriors' armor, it's not too bad. But it's the aesthetics of it, I guess.


dwarves cos i can see 'em realy working in a defensive list but not a dark army and i had problems painting my small skaven models, having the same problem with dwarves seems likely.

TK well they are dark and i like their looks, but for some reason i have a feeling they are less likely to be very succesfull but that could be me :/

Success often depends on the player. Tomb Kings have a horde aspect with their new book, so something to keep in mind.

Of course, you could do Forgeworld's Chaos Dwarfs, if you want evil stunties.

popisdead
24-05-2011, 22:15
Dwarves. Painted dark... :P

haha,.. nice. But also spot on.

russellmoo
25-05-2011, 04:24
You can play a defensive skaven- take lots of slaves, clanrats with spears, weapons teams, and warmachines

You can also play defensively with Dark elves but it is harder to do-

Munin
25-05-2011, 06:18
Just remember, no one likes to play a gunline army. While the Dwarfs do excel at this it gets very boring to fight an army that always contain 2 reroll to hit S4/5 grudgethrowers, 2 cannons and an organ gun together with a bunch of thunderers and the General's unit.

Gonzoyola
25-05-2011, 12:32
Just remember, no one likes to play a gunline army. While the Dwarfs do excel at this it gets very boring to fight an army that always contain 2 reroll to hit S4/5 grudgethrowers, 2 cannons and an organ gun together with a bunch of thunderers and the General's unit.

Truth, except I do love when those armies blow up on themselves and the player finds themselves unable to fend off the assault of my army

DeamonClaw
26-05-2011, 07:43
hmmm true :/
so how do you build a defensive army without making it a gunline army ?
><

Leogun_91
26-05-2011, 09:19
Dwarfs are great at defensive play, you don't need a full gunline for it either, enough warmachines to force the opponent to go to you and hit your fully ranked anvil units. Try to get a good balance between defending units and shooting units both because it's more fun and because it's better game wise, a good way to do it is to take the defending units you feel you need (3-4 big units is often enough at 2k and you want at least one of them to be an elite unit, preferably as many as possible), then take characters to help you (all has their uses in your army so take what you like) and last you spend the remaining on firepower.
For the darkness feel having them trying to avenge a grudge against a good race can give such a feel, if they are hunting orcs without mercy for past slayings of their families they don't seem evil, if they are hunting humans without mercy for past failures of fulfilling a trade agreement they certainly feel more dark.

Vashta
26-05-2011, 09:28
Chaos Dwarfs might be worth considering

Gooner
26-05-2011, 17:27
I would say the only army that can play gunline/deffensive and not be called cheesy is dwarves. Those poor bastards seem like they are ok on paper but when it comes down to it they mostly all have 1 attack and their armour isnt even that good any more.

DeamonClaw
26-05-2011, 20:47
well i'm sold on dwarfs.

i do not have the army book yet so a bit concerned on what gooner said.
but i decided to go buy it tommorow (as i have an offday) and study the book a bit. any suggestions on wich units to definitly take ?

and i'm thinking off painting them more in a black style maybe even research some of the chaos dwarf pics i can find. should give me the darkness feel i would like.

thanks for the help so far.
grtz
Deamonclaw

Dark Aly
26-05-2011, 21:22
For a defensive list then quarellers with great weapons are superb (warriors with great weapons are cheaper and also useful). Cannons, grudge throwers and organ guns are all the warmachines you will ever need. Hammerers are also very good as stubborn comes in useful. An anvil can be useful but some people find it overrated- either way it's more situational than the others. Miners and/or rangers allow you to potentially get behind the enemy lines to threaten wizards/warmachines but in reality your cannons can do this just as well.

Harwammer
27-05-2011, 10:42
well i'm sold on dwarfs.

i do not have the army book yet so a bit concerned on what gooner said.
but i decided to go buy it tommorow (as i have an offday) and study the book a bit. any suggestions on wich units to definitly take ?

and i'm thinking off painting them more in a black style maybe even research some of the chaos dwarf pics i can find. should give me the darkness feel i would like.

thanks for the help so far.
grtz
Deamonclaw

The dwarf miniatures don't have an innate 'goody goody'ness about them, indeed Dwarfs do have a few dark aspects to their character.

Black beards, tin armour with brass/bronze edging could give them the feel you want. You may even be able to mix in minis or bits from Forge Worlds new chaos dwarf range to further push this feel.