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Flame of Udun
01-04-2006, 21:30
I was wondering if anyone knew if paranormal phenomena and non demonic extraplanar beings, ghosts, angels, etc, existed in the 40k universe. I mean the Eldar have the remains of Kaela Mensha Khaine, but the other Eldar gods don't get a look in at all, nor do there seem to be and manifestations of Gork or Mork these days. Could things like ghosts and spirits and other such phenomena fit in to the 40k 'verse?

Vosk
01-04-2006, 21:50
Of course. We don't hear much of it, and if we did I would bet heavily that GW would make the entities or effects Warp-based (since the core of the 40k story is the relationship between humanity and the Warp), but that does not mean that everything has to be tied into the Warp. That's part of what I like about the C'tan mythology we have now - it's something fresh and different. Depends how imaginative you want to be really, and how much effort you are willing to invest into it.

Flame of Udun
01-04-2006, 21:56
Hmmm the Ctan mythos worries me though. I find it all too coincedental that the Avatar is metal and the Ctan are metal and that you never see any of the other eldar god. My theory is that GW will say that the eldar gods were good Ctan and that ther Jackal ate them all except Khaine who was not consumed but merely shattered. Anyway that's a rant for elswhere. I'm not too bothered if things are tied to the warp or not but I was more interested to here what people thought may exist supernaturally other than demons, Ctan and old ones.

Pilgrim
01-04-2006, 22:02
There were a lot of non-daemonic (in the standard sense of the term 'daemon') warp entities described in the old Rogue Trader book. These included Enslavers, Vampires, Psychnuien (if I spelt that right) and Astral Hounds, so these creatures definately exist, they have just been forgotten in more modern background works.

As to ghosts, the fact that the soul is absorbed into the warp (or one of its entities) upon death rules out the traditional image of ghosts. What would be possible instead would be psychic imprints on a place or person, where the residual psychic energy of a strongly emotional event causes visions in people sensitive to the warp when they are nearby. This is basically the same as the 'spiritual recording' explanation for ghostly activity that is heard from some researchers today.

Spirits, in the sense of manifestation of warp entities or the astral projections of psykers, are also most definately possible. There are a lot of mentions of this, ranging from the manifestation of Mork in one of the old Ork stories, to the Executioner psychic power of the Eldar (and the Ratskins spirit-walking power in Necromunda), to the visions that Imperial troops have reported seeing (which gets a mention in one of the old Legion of the Damned articles).

So there are definately warp entities which are not daemons, and there are, after a fashion, spirits and ghosts in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. But spirits and ghosts in the sense of souls adrift after death are not going to be there, simply because of the metaphysics of the setting.

This is my reading of things though, ymmv. And of course, it is considerably different if you talk about the Warhammer setting.

Adrian

Flame of Udun
01-04-2006, 22:28
See that's the thing that's always bothered me, this whole you die and a chaos deity eats your soul. It just leaves little room for "good" or "lawful" beings or neutral ones like ghosts and apparitions nor does it allow for a "heaven" of sorts. On thinking about it I do recall something in a relatively recent WD that had soem kind of adversary type rules for kill teams and that the imperial list feature a ghost/apparition. So what kind of beings could be called from the great beyond in 40K? Warp angels, people who have gone to join the Emperor and were of such great devoutness or something that they got some kind of angelic status, maybe they could appear at times of crisis or soemthing, I dunno? (perhaps I've been reading too much hellboy!?)

Psiweapon
01-04-2006, 22:49
@Flame of Udun
Probably powerful enough (read: alpha plus and beyond!) can retain some of their individuality and exist as warp-beings after death... Sadly, all eldar souls are claimed by She Who Thirsts and thus the most powerful psychis are ruled out of this theory... Plus chaos-tainted psychics would probably be eaten. About your "metal khaela mensha khaine" pet conspiracy theory, you're wrong, read this http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10799 and learn the "truth" - I wouldn't consider this compilation "canon" but its like... a revision of 40k prehistory by an "independent historian", and you won't find a text of such a grand scope by GW, so this one is the better option anyways.

It's a fact that the Warp is an awful mess... It's full of daemons and bogeymen because all beings in the galaxy are just a bunch of /b/tards. Nowadays there's no real good people that can influence the warp, and as it's "natural" state is a reflection of what happens at realspace...

sulla
02-04-2006, 00:50
Well, you can play a space marine apparition as an adversary in kill-team so I think that allows the possibility of ghosts in the 40K universe...

Grim Snail
02-04-2006, 01:43
If an entety dies within the webway, there is a chanse that the soul will be trapped there, because the webway is not in contact with the warp.

Irandrura
02-04-2006, 03:57
See that's the thing that's always bothered me, this whole you die and a chaos deity eats your soul. It just leaves little room for "good" or "lawful" beings or neutral ones like ghosts and apparitions nor does it allow for a "heaven" of sorts. On thinking about it I do recall something in a relatively recent WD that had soem kind of adversary type rules for kill teams and that the imperial list feature a ghost/apparition. So what kind of beings could be called from the great beyond in 40K? Warp angels, people who have gone to join the Emperor and were of such great devoutness or something that they got some kind of angelic status, maybe they could appear at times of crisis or soemthing, I dunno? (perhaps I've been reading too much hellboy!?)

Not all dead souls are eaten by Chaos. In fact, most aren't. The background noise of the Warp is the clamouring of uncountable numbers of souls. The Chaos gods just happen to contain a relatively large number of them. Most ordinary human souls aren't worth snatching.

And did you ever hear of the Star Child, the calm place in the Warp inhabited by the Emperor's soul and those who were loyal to him. The people who are faithful to the Emperor go there, where they are protected from the gods of Chaos.

There's more than just Chaos in the Warp.

Romanus
02-04-2006, 06:46
My child, when you dye, and have served the Emperor, your spirit joins Him in the Warp at his right hand.

Manifestations within the Imperium happen all the time. That is why there is the Thorian faction within the Inquestion (those that believe that some times the Emperor manifests some of his power into certain individuals and that one day a certain person shall be strong enough for the Emperor to return fully) and the Ordo Obsuletus (X-files, Mulder and Scully type of thing that investigates such things as the paranormal, non-daemonic. Essentially anything that doesn't fit into the jurisdiction of Malleus, Xenos or Hereticus).

Theres also the case of St Sabbat reappering in the Gaunts Ghosts novels at the most dire of times as well as the mysterious Battle Sister the Gaunt runs into from time to time (Ghostly appirition warning him of the future). Basically anything that is Psycically 'awake' within the 40k universe can return as a ghost if there will is strong enough. i think it was in Inquition wars after Inqueitor Draco dies and his spirit floats throughout the Web way.

Cheers, Romanus. (Sorry for the mistakes, in a rush)