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CaptainFaramir
25-05-2011, 09:47
So I will be facing my first "Casket of Souls" this weekend and the only way my High Elves will feasibly be able to deal with it will be magic (Pit of Shades, pray for a non-scatter), or massed bow fire and hope for a bunch of 6s to wound. (It's T10/I3/W3 (no ward, light armour on two guards).)

Anyway, this lead me to thinking: once I have hit and wounded (4+, 6s, grr):

1) Will the wounds be allocated randomly amongst the three crew (1 'Keeper of the Casket' and 2 Tomb Guards), for the purposes of armour saves, or will the player get to allocate wounds? I say randomise - but I don't know how warmachines work in the new edition with mixed crews (where the crew are just "wound markers")? Can any dwarf players suggest a resolution based on Engineers experience?

2) If I kill the Keeper of the Casket, but not the Tomb Guards, would the other player be allowed to resurrect the Keeper of the Casket with the signature spell? He's not really a rank-and-file troop, but nor is he really a proper character? I feel he ought to be able to resurrect the Tomb Guard (as being regular Joes).

3) If I kill the Keeper of the Casker, but not the Tomb Guards, would the other player be allowed to use the "Light of Death" spell without the Keeper?

My instinctive answers to my own questions are "No", "Yes", and "No" but I would appreciate the combined wisdom of the collective.

Frosty_TK
25-05-2011, 09:58
As a Warmachine, the Casket uses the best armor and save available from its crew. Shooting is not randomized against the crew. The Priest is for all conciderations just another crewman, no character. So he can't be compaired to an engineer.

As for healing, as long as the casket has a wound left, and if it is a construct ( I don't have the rules here, but I guess it is), it may be healed just as any other construct.

EG The answers would be:
NO,
N/A
N/A

GodlessM
25-05-2011, 11:54
It is basic war machine rules, with the crew dying in a specific order; first wound kills a guard, second a guard, and third the keeper.

majzownik
03-06-2011, 09:24
It is basic war machine rules, with the crew dying in a specific order; first wound kills a guard, second a guard, and third the keeper.

Could you please explain where in the Rulebook does it say that there is a specific order in which the crew die?

The only thing I found about this is that a model is to be removed when crewman dies / warmachine suffers a wound. I couldn't find anything about the order in which theses models are to be removed...

RanaldLoec
03-06-2011, 09:44
Could you please explain where in the Rulebook does it say that there is a specific order in which the crew die?

The only thing I found about this is that a model is to be removed when crewman dies / warmachine suffers a wound. I couldn't find anything about the order in which theses models are to be removed...

On checking the unit entry my original post was wrong.

Spiney Norman
03-06-2011, 09:48
Could you please explain where in the Rulebook does it say that there is a specific order in which the crew die?

The only thing I found about this is that a model is to be removed when crewman dies / warmachine suffers a wound. I couldn't find anything about the order in which theses models are to be removed...

There isn't one, the TK book doesn't specify an order to remove the models, but according to the rules the casket cannot operate if the keeper has been removed, so it'd be a pretty dumb TK player that elected to remove the keeper first.

Under normal circumstance the controlling player will decide which crew models to remove anyway, and since shooting is always directed at the warmachine and not individual members of the crew I'm doubtful you can even choose to kill the keeper via a shooting attack with the sniper ability. In combat its a different story as you do actually hit the crew rather than the casket, but if the casket gets into combat its almost certainly done for anyway.

Assuming you did manage to get into combat with the casket, kill the keeper and somehow get back out of combat without killing both the casket guard as well, I see no reason why the keeper couldn't be healed back as the result of a LoN incantation and continue to cast the LoD spell.

Besides TK players really bring caskets for the extra power dice, not the threat of a bound spell that everyone will make sure they dispel, and they keep generating power dice whether the keeper is there or not.

majzownik
03-06-2011, 10:27
Honestly, I see no reason not to allow the shooting player to decide which crew member is to be removed - it's his turn, it's his arrow that wounded the machine... is it written anywhere that it's always the miniature's owner choice?

As for resurrecting - rules for Resurrecting Fallen Warriors seem to be clear that you can only restore lost wounds on rank-and-file models, not warmachines. I think you can not target the crew separately with a spell, as they are just "wound and attack markers"...
If only we had a definition of what a rank-and-file model is...

GodlessM
03-06-2011, 11:46
Could you please explain where in the Rulebook does it say that there is a specific order in which the crew die?

The only thing I found about this is that a model is to be removed when crewman dies / warmachine suffers a wound. I couldn't find anything about the order in which theses models are to be removed...

It's not set in stone yet, but an untrained monkey can see the precedent strongly set back the Anvil and the Cauldron, and I fully expect the FAQ to establish this.

gdsora
03-06-2011, 12:52
It's not set in stone yet, but an untrained monkey can see the precedent strongly set back the Anvil and the Cauldron, and I fully expect the FAQ to establish this.

I would say there is a precedent set with the old TK faq about the caskets removal of crew because of wounds.

It was a war machine with just more wounds, and followed the almost same basic rules as it does now.

Dragoon999
03-06-2011, 15:03
Honestly, I see no reason not to allow the shooting player to decide which crew member is to be removed - it's his turn, it's his arrow that wounded the machine... is it written anywhere that it's always the miniature's owner choice?

Well the attacker sure does not choose. No where does it state the keeper is a champion in any regards, therefore even though he has a (name)...perhaps say like a (musician) he may not be targeted in any shape or form as a champion is the ONLY exception to target restrictions involving rank and file models, warmachines, monster handlers, etc. and he is in NO WAY defined as a champion.

Rikkjourd
03-06-2011, 20:10
As far as I can tell there is nothing in the rules forcing you to remove the keeper before the guards, so as long as it doesn't lose it's last wound it can cast the spell.

Also, it has the normal Nehekaran Undead rules (NOT construct) so it will be healed to full wounds if it is targeted by an augment.