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Sgt.Sunshine
02-06-2011, 04:17
Hello, I've been posting in the Dark Elf tactics, but I felt it was more reasonable to start up a new topic with the progress that has been made. My goal for this list is to at least be a bit competitive and all-comers type list. I'm relatively new to 8th edition and Dark Elves in 8th edition so if you suggest something please tell me why. It's nice to say "swap x for y", but I'd appreciate it if you explained your reasoning so I could apply it to future list building.

The core itself was raised to the bare minimum to meet the requirements. Hence shields on the Dark Riders. Hopefully this list will be versatile enough to match up against the majority of lists out there.

Total Roster Cost: 2500

High Sorceress (2#, 370 pts)
- Lvl 4 lore of death; Dark Pegasus, Focus Familiar and Pendant of Khaeleth
Sorceress (1#, 180 pts)
- Lvl 2 lore of shadow; Tome of Furion and Seal of Ghrond
Hag Queen (225 pts)
- cauldron of blood
- BSB
Black Guard (345 pts)
- 20 man w/ Full Command
- Tower Master w/ Crimson Death
- Banner of Murder
Witch Elves (230 pts)
- 21 man w/ Banner of Eternal Flame
Shades (85 pts)
- 5 man w/ AHW
Dark Riders (145 pts)
- 6 man w/ shields and musician
Dark Riders (145 pts)
- 6 man w/ shields and musician
Repeater Crossbowmen (115 pts)
- 10 man w/ shields and musicians
Repeater Crossbowmen (115 pts)
- 10 man w/ shields and musicians
Repeater Crossbowmen (115 pts)
- 10 man w/ shields and musicians
Harpy Coven (55 pts)
Cold One Chariot (100 pts)
Cold One Chariot (100 pts)
War Hydra (175 pts)

Chain
02-06-2011, 11:21
Can't remember if i've ever tried Dark riders with shields

Sounds fun, but i wouldn't expect much of them


also don't they lose the Vanguard rule when they get shields?

tmarichards
02-06-2011, 11:37
Yup, once you take them with shields they lose their fast cav special rule.

I think the reason you're struggling to make up the core allowance is that you dlon't have any big core blocks.

Dropping the chariots and either a unit of dark riders or xbows would allow you to take a big (25-30) Corsair block with standard bearer, musician and the Sea Serpent Standard- these gentlemen are rapidly becoming one of my most valuble units.

Don Zeko
02-06-2011, 12:53
Standard bearers on the crossbows would be a better way to fill points than shields on the Dark Riders because of the Blood & Glory scenario, but as Tmarichards said you'd be even better off getting some corsairs or warriors.

Sgt.Sunshine
02-06-2011, 16:49
Oh, thank you for pointing that out. I hadn't realized that they would lose the shields. Yeah, I was really having issues with the core when I really think I shouldn't have. So dropping the xbows and chariots can get me proximately 30 Corsairs with the Sea Serpent Banner. Also reducing the Dark Riders down to 5 each. I gave them AHW to maximize their combat capabilities? Or would it be better to give them the handbows?

Edit: The edited list

High Sorceress (2#, 370 pts)
- Lvl 4 lore of death; Dark Pegasus, Focus Familiar and Pendant of Khaeleth
Sorceress (1#, 180 pts)
- Lvl 2 lore of shadow; Tome of Furion and Seal of Ghrond
Hag Queen (225 pts)
- cauldron of blood
- BSB
Black Guard (345 pts)
- 20 man w/ Full Command
- Tower Master w/ Crimson Death
- Banner of Murder
Witch Elves (250 pts)
- 23 man w/ Banner of Eternal Flame
Shades (85 pts)
- 5 man w/ AHW
Corsairs (340 pts)
- 30 men w/ Musician, Sea Serpent Standard and AHW
Dark Riders (117 pts)
- 5 men w/ Musician
Dark Riders (117 pts)
- 5 men w/ Musician
Repeater Crossbowmen (125 pts)
- 10 men w/ musicians and standard
Repeater Crossbowmen (125 pts)
- 10 men w/ musicians and standard
Harpy Coven (55 pts)
War Hydra (175 pts)

2,499 points

tmarichards
03-06-2011, 01:54
Very solid.

Personally, I would drop the BG champion and take more bodies.

Sgt.Sunshine
03-06-2011, 03:17
I talked with one of the local players at my store and I thought of a few more changes that could be done. Dark Riders, I've been told and read, are a bit iffy at times. With my large unit of corsairs I can afford to put points into different areas. What if I did something like this instead?

High Sorceress (2#, 370 pts)
- Lvl 4 lore of death; Dark Pegasus, Focus Familiar and Pendant of Khaeleth
Sorceress (1#, 180 pts)
- Lvl 2 lore of shadow; Tome of Furion and Seal of Ghrond
Hag Queen (225 pts)
- cauldron of blood
- BSB
Black Guard (345 pts)
- 20 man w/ Full Command
- Tower Master w/ Crimson Death
- Banner of Murder
Witch Elves (240 pts)
- 22 man w/ Banner of Eternal Flame
Shades (85 pts)
- 5 man w/ AHW
Shades (85 pts)
- 5 man w/ AHW
Corsairs (340 pts)
- 30 men w/ Musician, Sea Serpent Standard and Repeater Crossbows
Repeater Crossbowmen (115 pts)
- 10 men w/ musicians and shields
Repeater Crossbowmen (115 pts)
- 10 men w/ musicians and shields
Repeater Crossbowmen (115 pts)
- 10 men w/ musicians and shields
Harpy Coven (55 pts)
Harpy Coven (55 pts)
War Hydra (175 pts)

2,500 points

I dropped the standards. If I'm aware that I'll be playing scenario I'll switch things up to squeeze them in. In all likelihood I'll probably just drop 2-3 witch elves to put in banners. Also in the discussion the idea of equipping corsairs with RxB came up. Deployed in a 15x2 block I could get quite a few shots off. Then committing to a stand and shoot, and reforming later on in combat. I see the logic in this and it makes sense. The AHW is nice, but the RxB gives them more utility as well as being devastating to charge. Also now with another Harpy Coven and Shade unit for missile unit harrasment and war machine hunting :)

As for the BG champion, I'm unsure. I think I'll get some experience first and see.

tmarichards
03-06-2011, 09:32
Very nice.

Make you sure you also pay attention to how often the shields on the xbows come in useful, as opposed to say 3 more Witches.

Sgt.Sunshine
03-06-2011, 14:21
Yeah, after watching a few games the ability to parry seems amazing. Oh, just on how to use things correctly. I've been told bunkering my Sorceress into the ten man unit of RxBmen is risky simply because there's only ten of them. If I place her closer to the center of me lines in the third RxB unit can this problem be solved?

tmarichards
03-06-2011, 14:28
Unfortunately, she's going to be vulnerable whether she goes so your best bet is to keep her relatively central so that flankers can't get into her unit.

Sgt.Sunshine
03-06-2011, 18:31
Yeah, that's what I thought. Someone suggested bulking up the unit or combining into a block of twenty, but I'm rather fond of being able to split up my targets.

Sgt.Sunshine
05-06-2011, 17:48
Hello again, sorry for the double post, but I had a question. Would dropping a unit of shade, witch elves and harpies be worth a block of ten cold one knights with ASF banner?

tmarichards
05-06-2011, 17:55
If you had Shadow magic, I'd say no.

But without it, you have no real strength in the army beyond the hydra.

Would certainly be worth a couple of practice games.

Don Zeko
05-06-2011, 18:02
I tend to think that big units of Cold One Knights aren't ideal if you have a cauldron. Back in 7th I ran two units of 6 with champions, musicians, and a null talisman for a mere 201 points. If you can find the points, two units of 6 with full command will treat you much better than 1 big block. This lets you switch around the +1 attacks buff without having to commit your big important unit to one particular location, so you have a lot more freedom to respond to the enemies movement and deployment.

Sgt.Sunshine
05-06-2011, 19:13
That's true, I was just thinking of having them in a bigger block would help deny points as well. I can fit in two blocks of 5 as well. In either case I'm most likely going to be purchasing the battalion box to help start off my collection. With that I'd only need one box of knights to give me a good force and I can start swapping things in and out. :)

Don Zeko
06-06-2011, 01:53
That's true, I was just thinking of having them in a bigger block would help deny points as well. I can fit in two blocks of 5 as well. In either case I'm most likely going to be purchasing the battalion box to help start off my collection. With that I'd only need one box of knights to give me a good force and I can start swapping things in and out. :)

Knights also happen to be gorgeous plastic models that come with bits you can use to make character models. I've got 15 of them, plus another 6 of the old 5th Edition Knights. They're pretty, effective, and cheap by GW standards. Buy lots!

tmarichards
06-06-2011, 01:59
You can slo put one knight on a 50x50 base, and do a little diorama of him running through an Empire spearman, for example- hey presto, 6 knights from a 5 knight box :)

Sgt.Sunshine
06-06-2011, 11:27
Well I'm always a sucker for nice looking models :)

Out of curiousity would dropping the Corsairs to a twenty man unit be worth bringing in two units of twenty RxBmen? This list would work under the assumption I already dropped the harpies and witch elves for a unit of ten CoK.

tmarichards
06-06-2011, 13:36
I don't rate units of 20 xbows unless you've already got several units of 10 and are taking at least 3 levels of fire magic.

Also, the importance of having at least one big combat block cannot be overstated.

Sgt.Sunshine
07-06-2011, 16:36
Alright then, another thing that has come up and been bugging me lately is my lore choice. After some thought I thought it might be better to give the SS shadow and S dark due to how easy it should be to cast. If I do this though I feel like I should rekit my SS with another build. Perhaps something that could be used to hide amongst the crossbows and perhaps giving her a sacrificial dagger. Good idea or bad?

Don Zeko
08-06-2011, 04:47
A shadow magic high sorceress with the dagger in a unit of expendable models is an excellent idea that will basically never let you down. I run mine in a unit of about 15 spearmen. If you're going to powergame with Dark Elves, this is the correct Lord choice.