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soviet
06-06-2011, 21:50
Is there any good reason - other than nostalgia - to play 3rd edition WFB?

I don't currently play WFB and I've got no opinion on 8th edition. I just found my old 3e hardback along with Warhammer Armies and Slaves to Darkness and I wondered if anyone still played them. Are there any notable break points or OP strategies in these older rules?

enyoss
06-06-2011, 22:09
I don't think anyone still plays 3rd edition... anywhere.

Those old rules were riddled with peculiarities, and although I view them with some degree of nostalgia (mainly through Slaves to Darkness warband games), I'm happy I don't have to use them now. I can't remember anything off the top of my head for the main game, but in warbands OP was simply a matter of a dice roll.

For example, I got lucky when starting out and had a mechanical Wyvrn which munched just about everything, including my mates unluckily rolled mono-wheeled Chaos Dwarf level 5 hero warband Champion (phew, what a mouthful). One ultra annoying feature was the Evil Eye chaos gift. It screwed your Champion and his warband up for life with, if I recall correctly, a -1 modifier on all rolls to hit and wound for everybody... and this is within a system where equal WS hits on a 5+. There was also the Thrown Weapon chaos sword attribute, which meant you could get tonked by an uber-hard Daemon Sword thrown from miles away.

Some of the spells were pretty ridiculous too, even by today's standards.

I'm happy we have moved on a bit :D.

RanaldLoec
06-06-2011, 22:25
Soviet just the man. There are reasons to believe that some 3rd and 4th ed monsters/races with out armies book entrys may be making a return. Could you possibley list a few of the monsters and races listed in your copy of the 3rd ed rules.

That's If their are any in there.

I think you might struggle to find any one still playing 3rd ed.

Thanks Ranald

piotrov
07-06-2011, 02:27
A few years back (during 6th edition), we ran a few "Chaos Warbands" campaigns at the LGS, using 3rd edition rules and the 2 old Chaos books (Slaves to Darkness and Lost & Damned). Everybody rolled up random Chaos champions with retinues and then went through a series of battles/encounters, which resulted in a whole slew of random gifts and mutations being awarded to the "characters", and an eventual "winner" at the end, with bragging rights.

This was a ton of fun, and actually was a good way to get people involved who weren't regularly playing WH at the time (including old players who weren't interested in the new editions and folks who were primarily RPG players).

BUT... the trick with this is it *required* some one to be a games-master - to run the scenarios, mind the various inconsistencies and imbalances in the rules, and arbitrate all of the other issues that popped up.

So something like that might be a good excuse to hang on to the books, if you're looking for an excuse to use them, as long as the participants are more interested in the fun of playing and converting, and not die-hard competitive players. Also, a healthy amount of beer can help the experience...

OrlyggJafnakol
07-06-2011, 04:24
the trick with this is it *required* some one to be a games-master - to run the scenarios, mind the various inconsistencies and imbalances in the rules, and arbitrate all of the other issues that popped up.

So something like that might be a good excuse to hang on to the books, if you're looking for an excuse to use them, as long as the participants are more interested in the fun of playing and converting, and not die-hard competitive players. Also, a healthy amount of beer can help the experience...

This is so true of 3rd edition. I love the ruleset, partly because of nostalgia and partly because its so detailed and varied. Back then, WFB was an extension of the roleplay scene and subsequently GMs were a normal concept. There were very, very few tournaments and the whole ethos of the game was to have fun and a shared experience. The rules still work if your gaming group has this value. As others have said, Realm of Chaos battles are bizarrely entertaining and can lead to amazing campaigns if your into creating fluff and converting.

Strange thing about 3rd edition is that the hardback rulebook, Warhammer Armies, the Realms of Chaos books and Warhammer Siege book seem to sell for far higher prices than any other oop rules publications that GW has ever put out. These rules (and the background) were produced over GW's 'golden age' and have slowly been diluted (for better or worse) ever since.

Captain Carstein
07-06-2011, 05:30
I know there's a couple of guys locally that still play 3rd Ed. from time to time. One guy painted up multiple armies using the LotR figs and used 3rd to play larger battles before War of the Ring came out. I doubt they've switched over, like old historical players that are content to stick with a certain set of rules forever. Another guy in the group played so he could still run his old Norse army. I haven't seen them for awhile, but they only play on Sundays, and I very rarely go down to the shop on that day.

I started playing Fantasy with 3rd Ed., but don't really remember too much as I only got a handful of games in during breaks at college before 4th came out. My main opponent at the time was dwarfs, so my Undead army sucked in comparison. The only thing I really remember was instability checks and the carrion getting additional attacks for every wound caused.

Its definitely true that the game had more of role-play feel to it, and the mind set to come up with your own rules if you had the model. I had a couple of undead war elephants from Grenadier, and it was pretty easy to come up with something that was fair.

Definitely good times.

enyoss
07-06-2011, 06:56
Could you possibley list a few of the monsters and races listed in your copy of the 3rd ed rules.


Although not directed at me, I think I'll have a go anyway :D. Races I remember include all the ones we have today, in addition to: Pygmies, Gnomes (allies of Dwarves), Trogladytes (allies of Slann and Lizardmen, which were themselves different back then), Chaos Goblins, Fimir (yay!), Chaos Dwarfs, Hobgoblins (later absorbed into Chaos Dwarfs... and shared their fate), Zoats etc.. Monsters and creatures included todays bunch, in addition to: Coatl, Cockatrice (the "death-chicken"), Chimera etc..

Really, it was a menagerie of classic fantasy and D&D monsters. As everyone else points out, this fit with the approach at the time which was more role play focused, before the management buyout of GW and the shift to slick boxed games (and more focused background/rules).


I had a couple of undead war elephants from Grenadier, and it was pretty easy to come up with something that was fair.


I think I remember that model! I was looking for a Mammoth for a 4th edition Norse army (using rules in the Citadel Journal... another "let's make up rules for cool models" initiative), but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for.

unheilig
07-06-2011, 07:12
If you don't think magic is powerful enough in 8th edition, try 3rd.

Elithis Lives
07-06-2011, 09:08
The only good things I can remember from 3rd is that high WS was rewarded more than in every release since, high WS models were harder to hit and easier to hit with. And of course the aforementioned RoC books.

Other than that, High Elves rocked. +4 SE dragon riders as units, up to 50 BS 5 archers, yes please!

But overall, despite being a golden age of gaming, 3rd was a bad game to play


If you don't think magic is powerful enough in 8th edition, try 3rd.
There was nothing at all over-powered about summoning 4 level 10 earth elementalsat all. Nothing whatsover...:shifty:

~Revenant~
07-06-2011, 09:26
This is something I've pondered alone the last couple of years, not just with fb but with 40k.

I think anyone who got seriously involved into GW products in the last 20 years ( yes some of us have been into it that long ) or even 10, probably has by now at least an older edition and a few expansions or rulebooks laying around.

Aside from rules changing, alot of army books get rid of or bring back units we liked or hated. Um...this can create some interesting situations with armies, in that at GW stores, the newest army book always is the "current one" but as we know in FB we have army books that are for 7th ( maybe with 8th in mind ) that will be replaced in the next year or two.

I love the two realm of chaos books for example, and while I don't have a huge problem with warriors or daemons of chaos, we now have 3 chaos army books, that technically can only be mixed as running 2 or 3 ally armies, which really is not mixed just allied rules...sucks imo.

This actually creates a problem with past/long term chaos players, because prior to 7th ed warriors of chaos and 5th ed chaos space marines, usually chaos players were able to take mortals, daemons and beastman in an army.

Going farther back alot of editions allowed allied army units which I thought was really cool and added alot to the game and to themed armies.

I feel quite restricted now with how armies are and the horrible changes to chaos, chaos imo being the army most hit with sucky changes, I'm not a competitive gamer by any means in fact I probably create fail lists or underpowered but themed lists, I like to play mono all marked armies with a mix of mortals, daemons and beasts, but I can't do that now.

Anyway getting back to 3rd ed and other editions, alot of us have old rules and army books, which makes me wonder....are there players out there who still use these ? obviously not at GW stores but I mean gaming groups who would ?

One thing I have noticed over the RP and Board game gamers is that many of them continue to use rules or play games that are over 15+ years old, but when it comes to GW it seems that many players just bend over and go by current GW rules, yes some of these rules are better but I would say there are house rules or some older rules which are more interesting or fun.

SpikeyChaosDwarf
07-06-2011, 13:12
Is there any good reason - other than nostalgia - to play 3rd edition WFB?

I don't currently play WFB and I've got no opinion on 8th edition. I just found my old 3e hardback along with Warhammer Armies and Slaves to Darkness and I wondered if anyone still played them. Are there any notable break points or OP strategies in these older rules?

Broke out 3rd edition a few years back just for old times sake. I had forgotten how long combat took. Fights lasted forever and no one ever died. The reserve move turn also added a whole extra turn that is just shortened now to making a march move.

Some of the old rules I liked but combat and extra movement turns bogged the whole game down terribly. The Army lists were very interesting back then though and the use of allies and mercenaries was very cool. 3rd Edition fluff rocked!

Captain Carstein
08-06-2011, 01:57
Broke out 3rd edition a few years back just for old times sake. I had forgotten how long combat took. Fights lasted forever and no one ever died. The reserve move turn also added a whole extra turn that is just shortened now to making a march move.

Some of the old rules I liked but combat and extra movement turns bogged the whole game down terribly. The Army lists were very interesting back then though and the use of allies and mercenaries was very cool. 3rd Edition fluff rocked!

So true. I had forgotten how much 3rd dragged on. So much so that my group back then dabbled with switching over to AD&D Battlesystem, which was much faster and you basically have an army of whatever you want.

Then the Empire army list came out in White Dwarf 146 with all those great Perry minis right before 4th Ed hit. I've never looked back since. :)

yabbadabba
08-06-2011, 15:57
The reason to play it is because you enjoyed it. You can make opponents, so lack of opposition is a small barrier.

Anything else is irrelevant. If you didn't enjoy it, then don't play it.

Rogue
08-06-2011, 17:03
The reason to play it is because you enjoyed it. You can make opponents, so lack of opposition is a small barrier.

Anything else is irrelevant. If you didn't enjoy it, then don't play it.

QFT. If you like a previous edition significantly better than the current edition then by all means feel free to play it. As someone who has lost interest in the current edition, I know a little of what you are feeling.

Deja Dude
08-06-2011, 17:53
I'm totally with you on this - I didnt get into Warhammer until the elves/goblins boxed set, but still have a really strong nostalgic pull towards the older original versions of the game.

I actually mentioned this to my game group the other day, I think it would be cool to play at least a short campaign using older versions of the rules and army lists, but there wasn't much interest - the primary reason being it would screw up the competitive "tournament players". Even this statement irked me - back in the day a "tournament" was any game that involved more people than me, my mate and his big brother.

If there was some kind of underground group of 3rd Ed players who use all-lead minis and listen to Bolt Thrower, I'd sign up in a heart beat.

mrtn
08-06-2011, 20:39
I had a couple of undead war elephants from Grenadier, and it was pretty easy to come up with something that was fair.



I think I remember that model! I was looking for a Mammoth for a 4th edition Norse army (using rules in the Citadel Journal... another "let's make up rules for cool models" initiative), but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for.

For anyone interested it's still available from Mirliton (http://www.mirliton.it/product_info.php?pName=skeleton-war-mammoth-with-catapult&cName=fantasy-2528mm-undeads). They have an undead giant rhino with prisoners in the ribcage as well.

popisdead
09-06-2011, 23:44
I just found my old 3e hardback along with Warhammer Armies and Slaves to Darkness

The latter will sell for $$$ on eBay and the third edition book should fetch some coin as well.

Arnizipal
10-06-2011, 12:58
Some of the spells were pretty ridiculous too, even by today's standards.

Indeed:


Pah, that's all child's play. What you really want is Demonic Portal from 3rd edition.

"The summoner opens a portal between the world and the domain of demons, allowing uncontrolled demon hordes to pass unhindered. The portal appears within 24" of the wizard. The summoner cannot control the demons that appear, they will move randomly, attacking any models in their path. Alternatively, they may be moved according to the GMs whim. Demons summoned in this way will always charge the nearest non-demonic troops of either side as soon as they get the opportunity.

The portal remains open for D6 turns; as the portal closes and remaining demons will become unstable and disappear.

At the beginning of each of the summoner's following turns, 6D6 lesser demons and 1 greater demon are unleashed. They are moved during the summoner's turn, but are not allied to him and willnot spare him from the slaughter."

That's one greater demon and an average of 21 lesser demons every turn.

:cool:

And that was when demons were really hard! (immune to all non-magical attacks, no psychology, greater demons usually had characteristics of 7+ all across the profile and could cast any battle magic spells without expending magc points...)

GAV
:eek:

More unbalancedness in this thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171874).

Dread_Kennedy
10-06-2011, 18:27
I came across a copy of the 3rd book over the interveb last year, and was overcome with curiosity. I loved the art, the bizarre "tone" of the book, and just being amazed by what I saw. While the 8th book is a mighty piece of work... books like 3rd have character, for better or worse!

Morkash
10-06-2011, 19:28
A reason for 3rd edition? A fantasy Chaos Champion with a daemonic Lascannon! Pew pew!

Cherrystone
11-06-2011, 00:07
My favourite edition but i do recommend replacing the reserve rule to the current marching rules to speed up play.

(I love the manouvre rules, we house rule them in to our 8th edition games).

Wallaby64
16-07-2011, 10:38
The late 80s definitely were the Golden Age of Warhammer. Any given publication clearly was a labour of love back then and the Geeks and Nerds firmly ruled GW! Ah, those were the days. Well, spilt milk, that is.

hashrat
17-07-2011, 01:01
The only good things I can remember from 3rd is that high WS was rewarded more than in every release since,

This is one change I never understood, I hit on a 3 at best and virtually 95% of enemies hit me on a 4, this when using some of the highest WS troops in WFB, high WS is meaningless compared to high BS, I'm sure there is a reason, but I would prefer some benefits to a high WS.

Especially for glass cannon like Death Hags and Assassins.

It doesn't spoil the game, but it is a strange thing to understand.

Arnizipal
17-07-2011, 06:55
Just a small reminder people: don't ask for copyrighted material.
I don't want to start handing out warnings here...

Arnizipal,

++ The Warseer Moderation Team ++

brionl
17-07-2011, 17:34
This is one change I never understood, I hit on a 3 at best and virtually 95% of enemies hit me on a 4, this when using some of the highest WS troops in WFB, high WS is meaningless compared to high BS, I'm sure there is a reason, but I would prefer some benefits to a high WS.

Especially for glass cannon like Death Hags and Assassins.

It doesn't spoil the game, but it is a strange thing to understand.

They want combat to be over more quickly, not drag out for 3-4 turns or more.