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Mozzamanx
10-06-2011, 13:25
Hello,

I'm interested to see how prevalent Arcane items are for each race in a competitive setting. This is to see whether a Power Scrolled Stone of Spite is a worthwhile investment in a standard tournament army.

For those who have never experienced it, it is a 1 use item which carries a bound spell. When cast, every single Arcane item within 18" immediately explodes, destroying the item and inflicting D6 S4 hits per item. Needless to say this is extremely potent against some enemies.
I'd like a list of 'must-have' Arcane items for races, so I can get an idea of how effective it will be. The Stone-Scroll combo is a hefty 60pts and so I'd like to know if its useful before I splurge out the points in an all-comers list.

To start with:
- Teclis carries 3 Arcane items, meaning the Stone is probably the single best way to kill him in the game.
- Book of Hoeth
- Grey Seers carry D3 Warpstone chunks as standard
- Night Goblin Shaman, do the Mushrooms qualify as Arcane items? I do not have access to the book.

If possible I'd like a list of the most popular Arcane items for each race. Thanks for any help.

RanaldLoec
10-06-2011, 13:39
All armies

Power scroll, dispel scroll, staff of sorcery

Empire

Rod of Power, seal of destruction, grey wand.

Warriors of Chaos

Infernal puppet, the black tongue.

Woodelves

Wand of wych elm, calingors stave, divination orb.

Some of these are my personal preference and may not represent everyones most commen choices.

drear
10-06-2011, 13:40
the mushrooms are just a rule for ngoblins so they are not arcane items.
i think it has some use, but range 18 wont hit them all, and you'll be lucky to hit a wizard with more than 1 ( teclis etc) and even then the wizard unless hes throw away will have a good ward.

its very situational and i cant see it paying off very often unless your opponent has jammed sevral wizards together.

Malorian
10-06-2011, 13:49
Never thought of combining those effects before...

It could have some merit to it, but keep in mind that your typical lvl 4 will take 3.5 hits which will cause 2.3 wounds, so on average you wouldn't even be killing him.

Personally I think you are better off just spending those points on a unit to run up and kill the bugger in combat. That also wouldn't require you to blow one magic phase to do this.

Mozzamanx
10-06-2011, 13:55
Thanks for the comments so far. I appreciate it's situational, but there are 2 very important points I should have made clear:

- I can also use the Hagtree Fetish, a cheap item which allows me to reroll wounds in the magic phase. It puts the average wounds up to 3.1, which is enough to kill a non-Warded Lord.
- If the opponent doesn't have a target, I still have a L4 wizard with Power Scroll. So only 25pts of the combo is situational, I am still perfectly entitled to a Purple Sun or Mindrazor.

Thanks for the input so far guys.

RanaldLoec
10-06-2011, 14:00
I've had this item combination used on me in a 3k game it does work quite nicely as only level 3 and above tend to have wards.

mrjellybeans
10-06-2011, 16:54
I have used it on a VC player that ran 3 necromancers, each with an arcane item. Too bad Manfred was there also, or I would have desroyed his whole magic phase in one turn.

It works well on hero level mages, as they only have two wounds and little or no save. I do like the combo and love when beastmen dish out such hate.

GodlessM
10-06-2011, 18:52
Warriors of Chaos

Infernal puppet, the black tongue.

The Black Tongue is a Talisman (and I still don't see anybody using it).

reddevil18
10-06-2011, 20:18
My only argument to this is that items special heros have dont have a catagory so how do you know any of teclis's stuff is arcane? (sorry if this is a stupid question)

Malorian
10-06-2011, 20:31
My only argument to this is that items special heros have dont have a catagory so how do you know any of teclis's stuff is arcane? (sorry if this is a stupid question)

It's a valid point.

Even stuff like the free warpstone tokens of the greyseer that are exactly the same in the magic section you can't just assume it would count as an arcane item.

Not sure how it would be FAQd either as I could easily see GW going either way, but my gut says they would rule against it and say they have no true classification other than being magic items.

GodlessM
10-06-2011, 22:30
My only argument to this is that items special heros have dont have a catagory so how do you know any of teclis's stuff is arcane? (sorry if this is a stupid question)

Some characters (not sure if Teclis is one of them) have an ite type listed with their items.

popisdead
10-06-2011, 22:47
Is there a reason you don't look through the Army lists section of the forum or Army books to see what is good and likely taken?

I would guess that to be the best indication of the interenet consensus of what to take.

Kalandros
10-06-2011, 23:07
Teclis:
Magic Items

Moon Staff of Lileath (arcane item)
war crown of saphery (arcane item)
Scroll of hoeth (arcane item)

3d6 S4 hits against T2 W3 with no saves? HAH! Teclis is DEAD.

Mozzamanx
10-06-2011, 23:22
My only argument to this is that items special heros have dont have a catagory so how do you know any of teclis's stuff is arcane? (sorry if this is a stupid question)

Teclis' items specifically have (Arcane) in brackets next to each one. Similarly, Warpstone Tokens are listed under Arcane items in the Skaven book, with the option to buy more for xpts.

Woodsman
10-06-2011, 23:25
Don't have a book handy so a couple of questions - as a bound can it be dispelled?
Secondly if it destroys all arcane items would this not also destroy your hagtree fetish/power scroll or is that something else? Would it also destroy itself - inflicting hits on your wizard?

As to my armies I'll take a dispel scroll and sometimes the silver mirror.

sulla
11-06-2011, 00:17
Don't have a book handy so a couple of questions - as a bound can it be dispelled?
Secondly if it destroys all arcane items would this not also destroy your hagtree fetish/power scroll or is that something else? Would it also destroy itself - inflicting hits on your wizard?

As to my armies I'll take a dispel scroll and sometimes the silver mirror.

Yes, it can be dispelled, but not if cast with IF using the power scroll/

Yes it would destroy the hagteee fetish if cast in range of it (so a beast player would be extremely stupid to keep the pair in range of each other).

It would not destroy the power scroll if it had been used already.

Finally, the stone is not an arcane item, so it would not destroy itself.

mrtn
11-06-2011, 01:01
It could have some merit to it, but keep in mind that your typical lvl 4 will take 3.5 hits which will cause 2.3 wounds, so on average you wouldn't even be killing him.Well, even if you don't kill the enemy mage, you have just destroyed some of his kit, and I assume your opponent took the arcane item because it's a good one?

Malorian
11-06-2011, 03:43
Well, even if you don't kill the enemy mage, you have just destroyed some of his kit, and I assume your opponent took the arcane item because it's a good one?

Then you spent 60 points to do it. It better be a GOOD arcane item ;)


Just to be clear, I think it's an interesting idea just not something to be used in a standard list. Just something to surprise the enemy now and then.

russellmoo
11-06-2011, 03:45
Well at 60 points- it seems like an obnoxiously good buy, and a good reason the power scroll should be banned (like players need another)

All you need to do is kill one character with it and not roll a 2-4 on the miscast table and you will break even-

sulla
11-06-2011, 03:50
Book of hoeth... Infernal puppet... Sacrificial dagger... I could think of a few I'd be happy to destroy for 60pts investment.

It's not like the power scroll has to be used on the stone. It could be used to force through a purple sun, soulblight, mindrazor or any number of other spells instead if the opportunity presents. It's just a nice trick to have up your sleeves if the opportunity presents IMO.

(and you don't roll on the miscast table. Bound items that miscast just cruble, russellmoo.)

decker_cky
11-06-2011, 07:01
Well at 60 points- it seems like an obnoxiously good buy, and a good reason the power scroll should be banned (like players need another)

All you need to do is kill one character with it and not roll a 2-4 on the miscast table and you will break even-

You don't roll on the miscast table because it's a bound item.

And honestly, it's not a reason to ban the power scroll in the least. It's only super powerful when used against overpowered items/characters. Power scroll + stone of spite does a lot to balance warhammer against other armies' silly equipment.


Book of hoeth... Infernal puppet... Sacrificial dagger... I could think of a few I'd be happy to destroy for 60pts investment.

It's not like the power scroll has to be used on the stone. It could be used to force through a purple sun, soulblight, mindrazor or any number of other spells instead if the opportunity presents. It's just a nice trick to have up your sleeves if the opportunity presents IMO.

(and you don't roll on the miscast table. Bound items that miscast just cruble, russellmoo.)

I took it at a tournament and killed a wizard most games (L2 usually, grey seer in one). Sometimes I power scroll a pit of shades if there's a cauldron or steam tank I need to kill, but I love having it.

russellmoo
11-06-2011, 07:24
Missed that it was a bound item-

And don't worry, I also think overpowered items and characters should be banned as well-

The stone of spite would be great for in game balance- except for the fact that only one army has access to it-

And the larger point is that I don't mind the powerscroll that much- I really don't like it in combination with certain other items-

Just like a single Slann ability isn't a problem, but the Slann that takes as many abilities as it can is a problem-

Obviously the point was missed- stone of spite + powerscroll is a great item combo, but not such a great item combo in a heavily comped environment, so really whether he should take it depends on what kind of tournament comp he is working with-

Woodsman
11-06-2011, 07:38
Cheers Sulla - good to know.

Seems like an awesome buy - worst case scenario you waste 60 points - he can still function as a mage the rest of the time. Generally you'll 'earn the points back' and more just in destroyed items whilst some casters have a reasonable chance of blowing away. I'd say its worth it for the one time you come up against Teclis - I see competitive players use him quite a lot or the archmage.

Kalandros
12-06-2011, 06:15
And after discussing this on ulthuan.net - oh yea I forgot that teclis is usually IMMUNE TO SPELLS thanks to the BSB (: No destroying of his arcanes, guys! :D

Djekar
12-06-2011, 14:48
My favorite arcane item (that I think is pretty popular these days) that I would sorely hate to lose is the Lucky Shrunken Head on my Savage Orc [Great] Shaman. All those lovely ward saves down the drain :cries:

sulla
12-06-2011, 15:59
And after discussing this on ulthuan.net - oh yea I forgot that teclis is usually IMMUNE TO SPELLS thanks to the BSB (: No destroying of his arcanes, guys! :D:D Yeah, you'd be silly to hope it would hurt teclis if he was in a unit with the BSB... Go, world dragon and immunity to spells in the same unit as the most powerful caster in the game! :cheese::cheese::cheese:

Agoz
13-06-2011, 01:29
If your playing against ogres, you'll probably see skullmantel, bangstick is also quite common.

popisdead
15-06-2011, 19:57
Keep in mind, vs VC and WoC, you're wounding on 4's and they get a save for a random amount of hits. I have yet to cause more than one wound (in all my games total) to any VC/WoC mages combined.

Malorian
15-06-2011, 20:04
:D Yeah, you'd be silly to hope it would hurt teclis if he was in a unit with the BSB... Go, world dragon and immunity to spells in the same unit as the most powerful caster in the game! :cheese::cheese::cheese:

Send in the null talisman! :p:D