PDA

View Full Version : Obsidian Armour and heavy armour combination?



Superafro
14-06-2011, 02:06
A friend and I were having a discussion of whether or not the obsidian armour gift of chaos on the blood thirster was compatable with the heavy armour he is granted in his wargear? The argument for it is that there are many ways armour is modified and saves like scaly skin provide an example of how to add the saves together. Although the argument against suggests that its not part of any of the armour combinations in the main rule book, giving it no precedence.

If anyone can shed light on this confusion that would be appreciated.

GodlessM
14-06-2011, 02:19
Obsidian Armour doesn't say it gives +4 armour, it says it gives him a 3+ save, so that is the defining statement.

Superafro
14-06-2011, 02:44
Interesting hadnt looked at it that way but what about chaos armour and gromril armour? They are 4+ saves that can be modified. The one 2+ armour in the rule book states that it cannot be improved in anyway, so unless it cant be modified wouldnt the gift state it cannot be improved in anyway?

Lord Inquisitor
14-06-2011, 02:56
It doesn't work because the Daemons FAQ says you use the best armor. That said, the rulebook is somewhat vague on this front. It's clear that the intent is that you can only wear one suit of armor, no chaos guys buying magic heavy armor on top of their chaos armour for a 2+ save BUT in the same section there are helms and things that are simply listed as 6+ save and can be combined with other equipment normally. A bit of common sense is needed here because the rules are just not very consistent.

Harwammer
14-06-2011, 08:55
Interesting hadnt looked at it that way but what about chaos armour and gromril armour? They are 4+ saves that can be modified. The one 2+ armour in the rule book states that it cannot be improved in anyway, so unless it cant be modified wouldnt the gift state it cannot be improved in anyway?

Suits of armour aren't modifiers, are they?

Things like shields/mounts provide modifiers to armour saves.

The armour of silvered steel (2+) can't be modified because (assumably) the devs didn't want the magic item to stack with the shield/mount modifiers.

Superafro
14-06-2011, 12:05
Thanks guys that clears things up. I skimmed the faq first but i must of missed it obviously. Then what is the point of armour of khorne on a juggernaut herald of khorne? It only gives a 3+ save instead of 4+ for 15 points where u could spend on other gifts. Wish all of the armybooks were updated to 8th ed

T10
14-06-2011, 14:17
Suits of armour aren't modifiers, are they?

Things like shields/mounts provide modifiers to armour saves.


Not in the simple sense one might wish.

The rules will tell you that a shield grants a 6+ armour save, light armour grants a 6+ armour save and a heavy armour grants a 5+ armour save. It then goes on to describe how a shield can be combined with a light armour for a 5+ armour save, or a shield can be combined with a heavy armour for a 4+ armour save.

What they don't do is state that suits of armour cannot be combined, e.g. a shield an light armour and a heavy armour.

I guess it seemed unnecessary to define "a suit of armour" as a specific category of armour saves that cannot be combined with others of the same type.

-T10

Lord Inquisitor
14-06-2011, 14:56
Thanks guys that clears things up. I skimmed the faq first but i must of missed it obviously. Then what is the point of armour of khorne on a juggernaut herald of khorne? It only gives a 3+ save instead of 4+ for 15 points where u could spend on other gifts. Wish all of the armybooks were updated to 8th ed

Heh, I can see this gets confusing. The jugger save DOES stack with armour worn. So it gives +3 armour to his 3+ armour (note the difference) and therefore he gets a 1+ save. (It would be 0+ but saves cap at 1+).

TrueKin
14-06-2011, 14:56
Thanks guys that clears things up. I skimmed the faq first but i must of missed it obviously. Then what is the point of armour of khorne on a juggernaut herald of khorne? It only gives a 3+ save instead of 4+ for 15 points where u could spend on other gifts. Wish all of the armybooks were updated to 8th ed

The point is that the Herald has a 4+ armour save when he has the Armour of Khorne, which is then modified by having a Juggernaut (+3 armour save) as mount. Thus, 1+ Armour.

Superafro
14-06-2011, 18:54
Unfortunatly armour of khorne does not work with the Juggernaut mount save because the faq says that saves form gifts (armour, ward, or regen) do not combine with other gear that grants saves. It states you have to use the best one.

TrueKin
14-06-2011, 19:11
Unfortunatly armour of khorne does not work with the Juggernaut mount save because the faq says that saves form gifts (armour, ward, or regen) do not combine with other gear that grants saves. It states you have to use the best one.

I can't find any mention of this in the FAQ, but not that it matters. The word armour is used only twice, once in a question about obsidian armour vs daemonic gifts, and once concerning combining for example a balesword with flail. The word save is used once, concerning pestilent mucus. Anyway, I wouldn't count a mount as wargear, as it's a mount, not an item. What I think you mean is that Armour of Khorne can't be combined with for example Bloodthirsters' heavy armour or obsidian armour (not that there'd be any sense in that anyway).

So, You can combine Armour of Khorne or Obsidian Armour with Juggernaut. I think the combo has even been used in a WD match or possibly in GW's example armies. Have fun with your 1+/5++ hero...

Lord Inquisitor
14-06-2011, 19:20
Unfortunatly armour of khorne does not work with the Juggernaut mount save because the faq says that saves form gifts (armour, ward, or regen) do not combine with other gear that grants saves. It states you have to use the best one.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from but what it says is "the best saving throw of each type (armour, ward or regeneration) must be used." I would read this to mean you have to choose between heavy armour, Obsidian Armour and Armour of Khorne, not that the +3 for being mounted on a Jugger doesn't apply. This is the way I see it played too, I don't think the intent of the FAQ was to say Juggers didn't stack with other armour (otherwise it'd be a 4+ save not a +3 save).

Superafro
16-06-2011, 03:28
Ok so the Jugger save works cause its a mount and says i believe (dont have army book off hand) +3 to the models armour save? Guess that would make a pretty resiliant BSB, expensive but resiliant. That solves that then, Thanks for helping a new daemon player like myself

PeG
16-06-2011, 14:18
At the same time as a jugger would give him a good AS it would also deny him a LOS unless you keep him in a large unit of crushers.