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brightblade
14-06-2011, 19:27
Did a search and couldn't narrow this one down enough....so....

Is it best to put a wizard in a unit or not?

In my orc army I run them around separately. They are relatively rewarding, casting regularly but also blowing their own heads up frequently. So to avoid losing half a unit I let them run around nearby.

After a bad experience with my wood elf branchwraith blowing up a load of dryads I always erred away from 'bunkering up' but now I am planning to give my woodies a go again. So whaddya reckon?

Do you guys (and gals) tend to keep you wizards in units or do you let them run about but risk losing them to a cheap round of shooting? Or do you feel you get a better position in a unit? Out of a unit are they obstructed? Do they gain better protection in a unit? Or what?

Keep it friendly. :)

RanaldLoec
14-06-2011, 19:36
Well I found its better to bunker my lord level casters.
I'm happy to let me hero level casters run around alone.

I do find it depends heavily on my army, a WoC caster is good enough to survive combat.
Empire wizards wilt at a stiff breeze and my Woodelves/forest spirits fall between the two.

Skirmishers make good bunkers, on a miscast templates cover less and every model in base contact taking hits you can laugh at. They can move around freely and can be cheaper options depending on armies. Eg Empire archers, Beastmen ungor raiders etc

Lord Inquisitor
14-06-2011, 19:37
Does the enemy have cannons? Usually wizards are better off in units, protected from enemy shooting or magic. In combat though, best be out of the units. Usually you'll see wizards in units that pop out when the going gets tough. In some cases you'll see dedicated bunkers designed to protect the caster (e.g. Elf Mages or Vampires) that hide at the back of the board while they get on with supporting the army.

brightblade
14-06-2011, 19:44
I play against a mixture of armies. Skaven, orcs, dwarfs, HE, Tk, Woc but no empire.

I am thinking on a Spellweaver with rhymers harp in eternal guard but don't want the benefit of the harp to be outweighed by the risk of blowing themselves up. Or am I just being a baby? Probably?

Obviously if it is best to run out of a unit I won't bother with the harp. Oh, I am running a highborn as a general in the same unit.

I am still interested in how others do it for my orcs though. Relatively new to fantasy. :)

Urgat
14-06-2011, 19:44
Usually, my shamans run around on their own, animosity is a pain for shamans. I take care of canons by having the shamans hide behind buildings or hills, well, out of LoS anyway.

brightblade
14-06-2011, 19:52
Ah, good point. I have not had an animosity issue yet with a shaman so that is worth thinking on.

Maybe the lords in a unit and heroes out and about?

Urgat
14-06-2011, 19:57
Lords, heroes, all in the wild for me :p I like my shamans on wolves btw, so they can make hit and run attacks :p (and run from attacks that hit, too :p)

Lord Inquisitor
14-06-2011, 19:58
Come to think of it, my wizards tend to be at the forefront of the action, my vampires like to be up close and personal, my butchers aren't afraid of a fight (and indeed, are used as a buffer to stop my vulnerable ogres getting hit), and my daemons, well, they're daemons.

Brady
14-06-2011, 20:02
I only leave them out he they are mobile, otherwise they are too vulnerable. My high elf mages go on non barded steeds and my chaos wizards wizz around on discs.

brightblade
14-06-2011, 20:05
So far the general consensus is; in a unit unless mounted? Maybe a poll is in order.......now how do I set up a poll? Hmmmmm...... (looking at keyboard) ;)

Yay! Poll up! My first! So exciting.... :)

Oberon
14-06-2011, 20:10
In a unit designed to hold back if the mage can't take a beating, in a fighting unit if he can. Outside of the unit if enemy can't shoot/magic him to death and close combat is coming soon.

Then again, I tend to stick my mages in front line units no matter the situation, as I play WoC (tougher wizards than enemy fighty heroes!) and HE (invulnerable mages)...

Methios
14-06-2011, 21:05
If your going to put a char in your EG unit i would recommand a highborn since it makes them stubborn.

put your mage with a small unit of GG.
If you run more then one mage i would put them in sepperate GG units.
Less risk from blowing up.
And sepperate targets for your opponents...butting your mages in the same unit could make it a jucy target.

Lorcryst
14-06-2011, 21:08
Well, as a Night Goblin player, I'm a bit biased : my Shamans (1 lord and 1 hero) go into a huge unit of 50+ NGs with bows, and pop out if something nasty comes near the "big bunker" unit ... that's for my 2K list, anyway.

I'm not really concerned about blowing chunks out of my archer unit on Miscasts, and I tend to roll few of those anyway ... on the other hand, I tend to roll badly for the "Mushroom die" of the NG Shamans, had two of those kill themselves on bad 'shrooms during my last two games ...

Malorian
14-06-2011, 21:40
It depends.

My usual casters will be in a small bunker in the back, but casters that can stand up for themselves go to a unit in the front.

Either way you won't catch me putting them out on their own... unless it's Mazdamundi. He's just bad-ass ;)

artisturn
14-06-2011, 22:01
it all depends on the level of my Night Goblin shaman.

If it is a second level or higher then a bunker of bows it is.

My level ones I run bare bones and solo,their job is to cast sneaky stabbing and hopefully eat up dispel dice by doing this.

popisdead
14-06-2011, 22:31
Depends on the wizard and use.

Elf wizards die to goblins (who cost 3 PPM) whereas GBS beat the tar out of things and ignore enemy attacks thanks to a high T and solid ward save.

T10
14-06-2011, 22:38
Obviously, ranged attacks are the main issue when running solo characters. Static combat resolution is a problem for lone characters, assuming they survive the combat.

For Orcs & Goblins, try putting them in a chariot. It's reasonably mobile (at least, it's maneuverable) and can protect the character against most ranged attacks.

Aeron
14-06-2011, 22:51
I suppose it all depends what race you are and what options are open to them! I mean T4 on a boar is better than a T3 elf on an unarmoured steed.... so latter mage is better off in a unit probably....but then some mages can wonderful beast/mounts........ :evilgrin:

....and some cannot....

Man it's depressing to be an Empire player who loves taking Wizards made of dry grass! :cries:

Nate.

Nubl0
15-06-2011, 00:02
My lord of change is a onster and alas cannot join his comrades for some team play, however he has smashed a fair few number of heros and lords that thought him to be a frail old bird... and not a creature on par with a dragon :)

isanti13
15-06-2011, 00:39
My grey seer sits in a clanrat unit that never gets into combat and my orc great shaman sits in a black orc bunker that rarely gets into combat... Both are my generals and I tend to throw the BSBs in those units and they move around a bit behind the army and sip tea and watch the battle :D

djpringle
15-06-2011, 06:22
As mentioned before in the thread I tend to do both, have one goblin shaman wandering free and one in a unit. Most of the time the lord level shaman is bunkered but depending on who has what spells, it could see the situation reversed.
My savage orc shaman will be in a unit regardless due to the shrunken head and my vanilla orc shaman will probably also be bunkered with arrer boyz, can't think of a time I have let him roam free...

Urgat
15-06-2011, 06:49
My grey seer sits in a clanrat unit that never gets into combat and my orc great shaman sits in a black orc bunker that rarely gets into combat... Both are my generals and I tend to throw the BSBs in those units and they move around a bit behind the army and sip tea and watch the battle :D

You got a unit of black orcs that hang around on the back of your army? Waste of points if you ask me :eyebrows:

Mercules
15-06-2011, 12:52
I've started running my lvl4 Spell Singer in my WE army alone on a Unicorn with the Glamorweave kindred. I give her a ward save and since she is using the Lore of Life if they arrow her I can hopefully heal her up before the next volley comes and picks off another wound. Cannons are a problem though.

With my Ogres my Slaughtermaster tends to get into all kinds of trouble. Either he is in the front of a unit and I am letting him absorb attacks or he is running around outside of a unit zipping out spells and charging flanks of support units. It really depends on what I am playing against and the situation.

With my Warriors of Chaos I sometimes run them around solo, against depending on Cannons, but sometimes they are smack dab in a unit just to force my opponent to deal with the unit to come get them.

This doesn't work so well for more fragile races. Chaos Sorcerers have fairly solid armor saves with the right equipment and can fight. My Slaughtermaster has the Bloodcleaver which gains him back wounds in combat and he can fight as well as many combat heroes.

Djekar
15-06-2011, 13:12
I voted for in a unit, but there are certainly situations where that is less than optimal. Lots of terrain to hide behind? Pop them out of the units and hide like a champ. On a fast mount/fast cav? Ride til that mount drops. Cheap as chips wizard (I'm looking at you level 1 gobbos)? Alone we go.

I think the key point here is that while you can (and indeed should) have a default "setting", be flexible when you need to be. I'd say that unless you are fielding shooting heavy armies and depending on the equipment you give your casters you might be able to tree surf out of most problem areas (that is, if you take mages past the mandatory Life-shaper to get tree-singing).

drear
15-06-2011, 13:27
wizards arnt usually targets if they sit alone in my meta so i have my lvl 4 on a bard lion running about being cool and poppin fresh :D

my lvl two wizard hides in with my spearmen buffing wildform like theres no tomorrow D:

Malorian
15-06-2011, 14:36
wizards arnt usually targets if they sit alone in my meta so i have my lvl 4 on a bard lion running about being cool and poppin fresh :D

my lvl two wizard hides in with my spearmen buffing wildform like theres no tomorrow D:

What is your meta? :confused:

Do all of your opponents seriously run no shooting or ranged magic or flanking units?

And do all of your opponents seriously not add these elements after seeing you run lone mages?


There was an empire player here a while ago that thought lone mages were the way to go. Oh how I proved him wrong game after game ;)

Borgnine
15-06-2011, 14:59
If I saw a level 4 running around like a grease monkey I would pop him rrrrreal quick

isanti13
15-06-2011, 20:21
You got a unit of black orcs that hang around on the back of your army? Waste of points if you ask me :eyebrows:

Not really. The make it so my wizard gets the protection of a unit, is immune to psych so no running away, doesn't suffer from animosity, and I can throw them in if need be. More often then not they don't do any fighting since the wizard is using the foot o gork to own the enemy :D

Malorian
15-06-2011, 20:24
Not really. The make it so my wizard gets the protection of a unit, is immune to psych so no running away, doesn't suffer from animosity, and I can throw them in if need be. More often then not they don't do any fighting since the wizard is using the foot o gork to own the enemy :D

I don't know... It's still a LOT of points for a bunker.

How big is the unit?

If anything I would only do this in a black orc horde, but that's because it would be in the front lines and not a bunker (with the shaman having defensive gear).

isanti13
16-06-2011, 04:11
I don't know... It's still a LOT of points for a bunker.

How big is the unit?

If anything I would only do this in a black orc horde, but that's because it would be in the front lines and not a bunker (with the shaman having defensive gear).


18 black orcs with the leadership banner. A bit expensive but I've found them to be worth it. I tend to play the more sit back with warmachines/magic and blow the enemy apart while I send the pump wagons, chariots and manglers up. By the time the enemy gets to me I don't need the black orcs to fight or if I do they can handle any smallish unit that gets in to them.